Gilliam's critique of new update

Gan Xing

Still reading the notes, but it seems like ZOS decided to change things that they had in PTS. Gilliamtherogue critiques the changes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f60e7KbZ8MI

olsborg

Just gotta say, hes a pretty smart guy:) And got a point.

GreenSoup2HoT

In short, crit builds always getting the shaft be it pve or pvp.

I'd like a rebalanced of proc sets and let them crit again.

Drakkdjinn

Great vid by an expert, but even newbs can see why ZoS sucks at Cinnamon Toast Balance!

Strider_Roshin

Is it really a surprise that ZOS fails to identify cause and effect, and they can't math?

Dasovaruilos

As always, they had a small issue (crit chance 2-4 bonus overperforming) that could have been fixed with a screwdriver, but instead they drop a nuclear bomb and nerf everything related to that too (Precise, Thief, Shadow).

And then we went from an awesome scenario where 4 traits were viable, 4-5 Mundus were viable, Monster set, no monster combinations were viable all back to one thing being so much better than all others.

I agree with Gilliam... It is such a missed opportunity.

I honestly don't know what goes on ZOS designer's head when they made those decisions.

Really disappointed that an overwhelmingly positive patch got wasted on a last minute bad decision.

Vaoh

@Gilliamtherogue very insightful vid

Balsagna

when every magicka dps BiS is essentially the same thing, what did everyone expect would happen?

Belegnole

Ouch, though it sums up what many are saying today.

Bbsample197

The live patch was like: Oh ***!! Crit Sets are overperfoming!! lets nerf everything with crit chance to oblivion! lets nerf shadow while were at it aswell!

Nifty2g

CalmFury wrote: »

Really disappointed that an overwhelmingly positive patch got wasted on a last minute bad decision.

You know ZOS wouldn't allow their patch to be positive, it's just not in them to listen to their fan base anymore.

MLGProPlayer

CalmFury wrote: »

As always, they had a small issue (crit chance 2-4 bonus overperforming) that could have been fixed with a screwdriver, but instead they drop a nuclear bomb and nerf everything related to that too (Precise, Thief, Shadow).

And then we went from an awesome scenario where 4 traits were viable, 4-5 Mundus were viable, Monster set, no monster combinations were viable all back to one thing being so much better than all others.

I agree with Gilliam... It is such a missed opportunity.

I honestly don't know what goes on ZOS designer's head when they made those decisions.

Really disappointed that an overwhelmingly positive patch got wasted on a last minute bad decision.

Yep. I was impressed by the wonderful job their balance team did on the PTS. And then the live patch hit, and they literally undid EVERYTHING. To say I'm confused would be an understatement.

Vaoh

CalmFury wrote: »

As always, they had a small issue (crit chance 2-4 bonus overperforming) that could have been fixed with a screwdriver, but instead they drop a nuclear bomb and nerf everything related to that too (Precise, Thief, Shadow).

And then we went from an awesome scenario where 4 traits were viable, 4-5 Mundus were viable, Monster set, no monster combinations were viable all back to one thing being so much better than all others.

I agree with Gilliam... It is such a missed opportunity.

I honestly don't know what goes on ZOS designer's head when they made those decisions.

Really disappointed that an overwhelmingly positive patch got wasted on a last minute bad decision.

I was so excited for HotR on console. You don't even know....

So much missed opportunity. RIP

Doctordarkspawn

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Is it really a surprise that ZOS fails to identify cause and effect, and they can't math?

It shouldn't by now. It reeeeeally shouldn't.

I've stopped geting excited for updates because they allways do this.

Betsararie

They screwed up so much of what they had in PTS. Great job as usual...

casparian

This line from Gilliam's video is telling:

I literally do more damage with an attack on a crit with Warrior than I do with Shadow, even though Shadow is all about critical hit damage.

This is a terrific summation of what we have in HotR. Not only are we still in a system in which there is one meta build you must run, but that system is very, very strange.

Kneighbors

Balsagna wrote: »

when every magicka dps BiS is essentially the same thing, what did everyone expect would happen?

It's not only mother's sorrow. Many people like me and author of the video had hopes for that patch to improve the game. On the contrary it went several steps back.

Now everything is confusing. The best traits are not clear, the mundus stone is not clear, the BiS for every class is not clear. As always the ones who is going to suffer the most are the casuals who knew that Sharpened is the best for DPS before while Divines is best for gear. Now ZoS just complicated things, nerfing instead of improving again.

gard

Welcome to Horns of the Reacharound.

Bakkagami

Kneighbors wrote: »

Balsagna wrote: »

when every magicka dps BiS is essentially the same thing, what did everyone expect would happen?

It's not only mother's sorrow. Many people like me and author of the video had hopes for that patch to improve the game. On the contrary it went several steps back.

Now everything is confusing. The best traits are not clear, the mundus stone is not clear, the BiS for every class is not clear. As always the ones who is going to suffer the most are the casuals who knew that Sharpened is the best for DPS before while Divines is best for gear. Now ZoS just complicated things, nerfing instead of improving again.

Not in town so haven't been able to test for myself but why is the possibility of any being the "best trait" a bad thing? As i understand it, having only 1 viable option was a bad thing yet now people complain when there may be multiple viable options.

WuffyCerulei

Players: All these bonus and mundus changes are really nice. Can't wait to see them on live!

ZOS when HotR goes live:

JinMori

It seems that my decision to drop eso before morrowind was a good idea.

*** you zenimax for ruining the game.

MLGProPlayer

JinMori wrote: »

It seems that my decision to drop eso before morrowind was a good idea.

*** you zenimax for ruining the game.

I was indifferent to their Morrowind changes.

But this just defies all logic. They discover something great on the PTS, and then they scrap it when they launch the actual patch.

Anlace

This sucks. I was excited about the changes they said we were getting. Idgaf about BiS and the meta, but lots of viable choices for combinations of gear and buffs was looking interesting.

Malic

Another update another 3872 changes/tweaks.

I do understand MMO companies have to keep players on the gear treadmill but ive never seen these kind of wide ranging changes EVERY patch. One could almost (almost dont want to upset the snowflakes) extrapolate out that by doing this, it is evidence that Zos doesnt know how to balance its game.

Sure you need adjustments with patches but way to many, way to often.

Garrick

Gilliamtherogue is great. I don't always subscribe to everything he says, but he is spot on when he provides direct criticism to ZOS.

I mean, this is the "BIS" guy. To have him say that he was genuinely impressed that he couldn't figure out BIS on the PTS because there were so many options and which one was best varied based on situation was HUGE. Surely that is what the balance people who tweak MMOs want. But no, ZOS have to take a dump in their own well.

Repeat after me coder types and software engineers: last minute, knee-jerk, untested changes are always BAD.

Doctordarkspawn

casparian wrote: »

This line from Gilliam's video is telling:

I literally do more damage with an attack on a crit with Warrior than I do with Shadow, even though Shadow is all about critical hit damage.

This is a terrific summation of what we have in HotR. Not only are we still in a system in which there is one meta build you must run, but that system is very, very strange.

The system was allways very strange.

Again, ZOS has no idea what they're doing. You need to change the staff if you want this to change.

generalmyrick

ZOS is getting proced by SELENE'S + VIPER!!!!!!

NICE!! GIVE IT TO THEM RAW!!!!! WOOT!!!!

PUNISH MISTAKES VIOLENTLY FAM!!!!

MinarasLaure

The problem with this patch is that it's all about nerfing what we had.
So instead of getting something"old but revamped", we have to go back to the old AND nerfed.
Which means no new builds, no new combos, no nothing.
Just back to the Morrowind bis but knowing it won't perform as it used to do.
So at the end of the day, in this patch we got just nerf (and 2 new dungeon if you paid 1500 crowns)

Ihatenightblades

soon as i heard the word "biss" i X video.

generalmyrick

i love chaos!!!! woot!

Malic

Gilliam is one of those people you meet in business sometimes. They are extreme specialists, they know their poop inside and out on a particular vein. Like a commodities trader, or a brain surgeon or DNA researcher. Ive watched a lot of his videos and he is able to retain a great deal of detail over time through different iterations to form a comparative.

Im not here to blow smoke up his poop shoot but lets just say I have two observations:

1. Given the opening paragraph, imagine someone like that having their apple cart upset. He's a bit of a geek, its not a put down its meant in a positive light but its clearly an overreaction. He's talking about things being "nerfed to oblivion" which they werent.

2. he is correct in his overall observation of the situation pertaining to Zenimax. They are not very good at this, there is really no reason we should be at this place at this time. The game has been out for years we should be much closer to balance then we are.

I like Gilliam a lot, the problem is one of expectations. He placed too high expectations on ZOS.