What's the best Mag Sorc rotation coming HotR?

humpalicous

So most of us know that Mother's Sorrow + Julianos + Infused weapons (more single target dmg) will be the most likely meta setup for magicka builds in the Horns of the Reach update with the Shadow mundus stone instead of the Thief.

That said, I've completed my checklist and donned the upcoming meta gear on my precious Mag Sorc and I've started working on a new rotation since it deviates somewhat from my previous heavy attack build

What's the best rotation of skills for this upcoming setup? Revert to weaving light attacks in between Force Pulse which in turn procs Frags?

Would like to hear your thoughts!

Fang_of_Lorkhaj

Curse. Liquid. Blockade. Hvy lightning attack. Proc-ing an instant glass potatoe whenever available (crystal). *leaves room*

Dymence

You can stick with the old pet heavy rotation, probably still best dps

Force pulse weaving is not reasonably sustainable

Kneighbors

Damn that heavy is still there. Have to change game to get some fast paced action.

getemshauna

You don't have to. I seen sorcs using Fp/frags setup with pretty decent results. For more information I suggest visiting Yolo's channel, or just ask one of more expirenced sorcs how to make it work.

Also, need to add that VMA staff was the only reason what made heavy attack build strong (because every small tick benefits from crushing wall). I'm almost sure that in HotR, where VMA staff is no longer considered as bis, old rotation will be used again.

humpalicous

gethemshauna wrote: »

You don't have to. I seen sorcs using Fp/frags setup with pretty decent results. For more information I suggest visiting Yolo's channel, or just ask one of more expirenced sorcs how to make it work.

Also, need to add that VMA staff was the only reason what made heavy attack build strong (because every small tick benefits from crushing wall). I'm almost sure that in HotR, where VMA staff is no longer considered as bis, old rotation will be used again.

Agreed, but Gilliam has confirmed that there is yet another bug with enchants on Wall of Elements...

The enchant on the back bar carries over to the front bar, which is apparently not intended. So if they fix it tomorrow, Gill has stated that a back bar VMA lightning would still be BIS with Infused on the front bar.

But we shall see if ZOS addresses this tomorrow or not!

Dymence

humpalicous wrote: »

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gethemshauna wrote: »

You don't have to. I seen sorcs using Fp/frags setup with pretty decent results. For more information I suggest visiting Yolo's channel, or just ask one of more expirenced sorcs how to make it work.

Also, need to add that VMA staff was the only reason what made heavy attack build strong (because every small tick benefits from crushing wall). I'm almost sure that in HotR, where VMA staff is no longer considered as bis, old rotation will be used again.

Agreed, but Gilliam has confirmed that there is yet another bug with enchants on Wall of Elements...

The enchant on the back bar carries over to the front bar, which is apparently not intended. So if they fix it tomorrow, Gill has stated that a back bar VMA lightning would still be BIS with Infused on the front bar.

But we shall see if ZOS addresses this tomorrow or not!

This has been the case since the dawn of age (since the release of vMA) and I always thought it intended?

Any source on why it should suddenly be a bug?

BrightOblivion

Dymence wrote: »

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humpalicous wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

You don't have to. I seen sorcs using Fp/frags setup with pretty decent results. For more information I suggest visiting Yolo's channel, or just ask one of more expirenced sorcs how to make it work.

Also, need to add that VMA staff was the only reason what made heavy attack build strong (because every small tick benefits from crushing wall). I'm almost sure that in HotR, where VMA staff is no longer considered as bis, old rotation will be used again.

Agreed, but Gilliam has confirmed that there is yet another bug with enchants on Wall of Elements...

The enchant on the back bar carries over to the front bar, which is apparently not intended. So if they fix it tomorrow, Gill has stated that a back bar VMA lightning would still be BIS with Infused on the front bar.

But we shall see if ZOS addresses this tomorrow or not!

This has been the case since the dawn of age (since the release of vMA) and I always thought it intended?

Any source on why it should suddenly be a bug?

Intended that wall of lightning/ its morphs (and just the lightning) will still proc back bar enchant after weapon swap, not just the enchant of the weapon you're using? Wall of fire doesn't do that.

If it was intended, don't you think it'd be the same with all 3 elements and not just one?

Faulgor

BrightOblivion wrote: »

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Dymence wrote: »

humpalicous wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

You don't have to. I seen sorcs using Fp/frags setup with pretty decent results. For more information I suggest visiting Yolo's channel, or just ask one of more expirenced sorcs how to make it work.

Also, need to add that VMA staff was the only reason what made heavy attack build strong (because every small tick benefits from crushing wall). I'm almost sure that in HotR, where VMA staff is no longer considered as bis, old rotation will be used again.

Agreed, but Gilliam has confirmed that there is yet another bug with enchants on Wall of Elements...

The enchant on the back bar carries over to the front bar, which is apparently not intended. So if they fix it tomorrow, Gill has stated that a back bar VMA lightning would still be BIS with Infused on the front bar.

But we shall see if ZOS addresses this tomorrow or not!

This has been the case since the dawn of age (since the release of vMA) and I always thought it intended?

Any source on why it should suddenly be a bug?

Intended that wall of lightning/ its morphs (and just the lightning) will still proc back bar enchant after weapon swap, not just the enchant of the weapon you're using? Wall of fire doesn't do that.

If it was intended, don't you think it'd be the same with all 3 elements and not just one?

As far as I can tell it works with alle AoE DoT weapon skills, i.e. Volley, Blade Cloak, WoE. Not sure about the bleed from Carve. But I haven't tested with Inferno staffs specifically, so if it doesn't work with that, I'd assume Inferno is bugged, not Lightning.

Dymence

BrightOblivion wrote: »

show previous quotes

Dymence wrote: »

humpalicous wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

You don't have to. I seen sorcs using Fp/frags setup with pretty decent results. For more information I suggest visiting Yolo's channel, or just ask one of more expirenced sorcs how to make it work.

Also, need to add that VMA staff was the only reason what made heavy attack build strong (because every small tick benefits from crushing wall). I'm almost sure that in HotR, where VMA staff is no longer considered as bis, old rotation will be used again.

Agreed, but Gilliam has confirmed that there is yet another bug with enchants on Wall of Elements...

The enchant on the back bar carries over to the front bar, which is apparently not intended. So if they fix it tomorrow, Gill has stated that a back bar VMA lightning would still be BIS with Infused on the front bar.

But we shall see if ZOS addresses this tomorrow or not!

This has been the case since the dawn of age (since the release of vMA) and I always thought it intended?

Any source on why it should suddenly be a bug?

Intended that wall of lightning/ its morphs (and just the lightning) will still proc back bar enchant after weapon swap, not just the enchant of the weapon you're using? Wall of fire doesn't do that.

If it was intended, don't you think it'd be the same with all 3 elements and not just one?

I was fairly certain it worked with all 3 elements. So it doesn't? Because it used to.

Nvm I understood it wrong, thought it was about vMA staff enchant persisting over barswap was the bug not a regular enchant.

Vaoh

Well there's really only two rotations, and both are more or less the same DPS. Next patch I would expect that to stay the same.

Flips

So where did we end up? Heavy attack build with pet still good?

TarrNokk

I did Skyreach catacombs today the same way like every day: 5 necropotence, 2grothdarr, 3 willpower . No changes in nothing. I am at cp495, Mundus:mage. I did the run as usual in 30 minutes and never had the feeling to be weaker than before. Everything is fine for me.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Had to check the date on OPs comment. I dont think that is the case any longer by any stretch.

I think the best answer at the moment is to re-roll stamina. Haha. I actually dusted off the stam sorc last night for a VSO run. Survivability and DPS is quite good ATM. Stam DPS is noticeably better than magic this patch.

I have not tried the MS/Julianos build, but I have tried my old HA rotation with my old gear and also with 5 IA/5Julianos. They arent all that different to be honest, and both are about 6-7k below last patch (self buffed on a dummy). I definitely have some more experimenting to do, but I am not impressed.

I am all for balance, but you should not go to sleep one night and wakeup the next morning with that kind of DPS loss. Everyone is scrambling right now. I am going to play stam until everything settles down a bit.

Also, I will never test on the PTS again after this patch. What is the f'ing point!?!

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

You setup your gear to soon maybe? Not sure if that's gunna be meta or not with the last second changes.

Vaoh

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Had to check the date on OPs comment. I dont think that is the case any longer by any stretch.

I think the best answer at the moment is to re-roll stamina. Haha. I actually dusted off the stam sorc last night for a VSO run. Survivability and DPS is quite good ATM. Stam DPS is noticeably better than magic this patch.

I have not tried the MS/Julianos build, but I have tried my old HA rotation with my old gear and also with 5 IA/5Julianos. They arent all that different to be honest, and both are about 6-7k below last patch (self buffed on a dummy). I definitely have some more experimenting to do, but I am not impressed.

I am all for balance, but you should not go to sleep one night and wakeup the next morning with that kind of DPS loss. Everyone is scrambling right now. I am going to play stam until everything settles down a bit.

Also, I will never test on the PTS again after this patch. What is the f'ing point!?!

Mag DPS shouldn't be behind while Infallible Mage is bugged. Js

Betsararie

Mag sorc pve dps is a joke this patch. As of now it is completely awful. I am going to have to agree with Oreyn and say just play stam, because last night was a joke in terms of DPS. Might have to dust off the stam blade if they are still performing well.

However I queued up for a few BGs and my effectiveness was more or less the same. Oblivion damage is completely worthless now so I switched that off for a flame damage glyph and that has been working A LOT better. That was a spur of the moment decision though and not sure if that is going to be optimal. But I'm running the Apprentice after the patch so I decided against a spell damage glyph.

I saw so many NBs that pre patch were big powerhouses scrambling for kills last night in PvP. Was pretty funny the nerf got them hard, Selene's is trash now, as well as their other procs. My build was more or less Patch-proof so my effectiveness is primarily the same. Spinners is looking to be good in pvp to give you some much needed pen lost from sharpened nerf.

Sharpened still performs decently in PvP, not as good as before but viable. PvE for a mag sorc is more or less a joke right now, compared to their former glory.

Flaminir

@Blanco I'm away on holiday at the mo so can't get online to test myself for a few days yet, but out of interest why do you think Sorcs got hit so hard?

Can't see anything obvious in the natch potes, & there's no real specific sorc nerfs to speak of?

Or do you mean it's a more generic DPS nerf? Or just to magicka?

Betsararie

Flaminir wrote: »

@Blanco I'm away on holiday at the mo so can't get online to test myself for a few days yet, but out of interest why do you think Sorcs got hit so hard?

Can't see anything obvious in the natch potes, & there's no real specific sorc nerfs to speak of?

Or do you mean it's a more generic DPS nerf? Or just to magicka?

I didn't do any formal testing last night because I didn't have time, but combat metrics showed a roughly 10k dps loss in both boss fights and trash fights.

I'd gone from pulling a minimum of 30k dps all the way up to 70k+ depending on the fight during boss fights in vet dungeons, to around 20k, rarely going above that, if I was able to get the ulti in it would maybe make it up to 45k. By any measure, it was awful.

I attribute my DPS loss to a number of factors:

1) Sharpened nerf. This hit everyone hard and didn't hit sorcs any less. This results in a large DPS loss across the board for all classes.

2) Ilambris nerf. Pre patch I was running illambris and necro. Ilambris received a 10% reduction to its damage. Before, it was somewhat of a powerhouse now, it's completely awful. Midway through playing pve I switched to 1 piece ilambris 1 piece Iceheart and this seemed to help a little bit, but not enough.

3) Necro nerf. Necropotence was nerfed only a little bit but this will result in a dps loss.

So at least for the meta pet sorc build it received a pretty significant nerf. Tried switching to spinners divines in pve with a precise staff and that may have helped a little bit, but not enough.

Also was previously running thief but switched to the Apprentice because Thief was nerfed and apprentice was buffed. Apprentice is also a lot better for PvP.

It mainly had to do with my build but there is no denying this patch hit sorcs fairly hard. Once there is more data out there on builds I will probably be able to throw something workable together, but there is no denying last night was absolutely terrible. Will probably do some testing with Julianos next, have a full divines set lying around.

Kneighbors

I dislike the patch not less than other do, but from he to rerolling sorc into stamina is a really long walk.

You walk after that word "DPS" as it is the only thing that matters for DD. Yes, it matters alot, but if you choose between making 20k damage remotely and 21k in close quarters so 20k will be much more viable in most of the content of the game.

Today on last boss Falk.Hold I was playing with 2 stam dds. The group dps I noticed was around 45k. But staminas kept dying again and again, and at some point simply gave up. So I switch to my necro magsorc, and there was another magnb coming. We rocked that bosses ass after 3 tries in HM (with staminas it wasn't). I noticed our group dps was 40k!!!

So why it happens?
1) Stambuilds low AoE damage so any mag class will perform much better during adds summoning. (important in Falk's as example)
2) Shielding. Still strong with magsorcs.
3) Remote DPS is higher than stams.

So no chance I'm rerolling magsorc into stam. Continue your looking for best class by skeleton killing test.

LioraValkyrie

Personal best dps for me this morning, first set of parses on HotR. Same gear as before, mage mundus, all 10 new blue CP into spell erosion. Plus, my ward just got 1k bigger. 4 skills listed + heavy attack + destro ult.

chris25602

I didn't change anything..still getting 50-100 kills an hour in cyro...i am by no means a top player...i just rotate with storm>ward>entropy>fp>frag proc>magelight>iceComet>fp>frag proc

http://imgur.com/a/WZfYO

shreek1

Blanco wrote: »

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Flaminir wrote: »

@Blanco I'm away on holiday at the mo so can't get online to test myself for a few days yet, but out of interest why do you think Sorcs got hit so hard?

Can't see anything obvious in the natch potes, & there's no real specific sorc nerfs to speak of?

Or do you mean it's a more generic DPS nerf? Or just to magicka?

I didn't do any formal testing last night because I didn't have time, but combat metrics showed a roughly 10k dps loss in both boss fights and trash fights.

I'd gone from pulling a minimum of 30k dps all the way up to 70k+ depending on the fight during boss fights in vet dungeons, to around 20k, rarely going above that, if I was able to get the ulti in it would maybe make it up to 45k. By any measure, it was awful.

I attribute my DPS loss to a number of factors:

1) Sharpened nerf. This hit everyone hard and didn't hit sorcs any less. This results in a large DPS loss across the board for all classes.

2) Ilambris nerf. Pre patch I was running illambris and necro. Ilambris received a 10% reduction to its damage. Before, it was somewhat of a powerhouse now, it's completely awful. Midway through playing pve I switched to 1 piece ilambris 1 piece Iceheart and this seemed to help a little bit, but not enough.

3) Necro nerf. Necropotence was nerfed only a little bit but this will result in a dps loss.

So at least for the meta pet sorc build it received a pretty significant nerf. Tried switching to spinners divines in pve with a precise staff and that may have helped a little bit, but not enough.

Also was previously running thief but switched to the Apprentice because Thief was nerfed and apprentice was buffed. Apprentice is also a lot better for PvP.

It mainly had to do with my build but there is no denying this patch hit sorcs fairly hard. Once there is more data out there on builds I will probably be able to throw something workable together, but there is no denying last night was absolutely terrible. Will probably do some testing with Julianos next, have a full divines set lying around.

I've been doing damage parses on my MagSorc for the last two days. My DPS is down about 2k no matter what I run, using combinations of the gear below, but also trying all of them with Apprentice and Lover mundus.

I settled on 5pc Julianos (Heavy Chest, Med Legs), 5pc Mother's Sorrow or Netch (they seem interchangeable) and a 1-piece monster helm giving magicka. Double-bar Lightning staffs. I dumped the 2-piece monster helm kit (Ilambris/Grothdarr/Valkyn Skoria) a month ago because none of them were doing more than 5% of my damage output. I shifted some CP points into Spell Penetration to make up for the loss from Sharpened and for the time being I'm running the Lover. I'll try Apprentice tomorrow. From my parses, Necropotence can't match Julianos with another set. I tried an Infused staff but I haven't tried it with the Lover mundus yet.

This is just what I found on my unscientific tests on my 3m target dummy. I'm just grasping at straws, so take this all with a grain of salt and I'm sure others will have different results.

humpalicous

To @Oreyn_Bearclaw , I have a Stam Sorc toon haha and I've always pulled better numbers with him simply because I'm more comfortable with his rotation. Have been focusing more on the Mag Sorc lately to get some diversity, but now I honestly don't know where to start in terms of setup...

To everyone else, I get that balance is good. But I need a meta to chase, I don't care much for interchangeable sets. I need to look at the test results and clearly see a winner in terms of setup and then chase that.

But that's just me

All in all, very disappointed in ZOS for dropping a nuclear bomb on launch day, when they could've just fixed the issue with a hammer and a few nails (toning down crit bonuses on sets would have been enough since you can still get high crit rating with the current version of Mother's for example.

Septimus_Magna

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

Personal best dps for me this morning, first set of parses on HotR. Same gear as before, mage mundus, all 10 new blue CP into spell erosion. Plus, my ward just got 1k bigger. 4 skills listed + heavy attack + destro ult.

You might want to consider running Liquid Lightning instead of Lightning Flood, its much better because it has a 10 second duration instead of just 6 seconds.

Septimus_Magna

Dymence wrote: »

You can stick with the old pet heavy rotation, probably still best dps

Force pulse weaving is not reasonably sustainable

Could you explain your rotation and skill setup?
I know you always pull crazy high numbers so I'll probably learn a thing or two.

Kneighbors

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

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LioraValkyrie wrote: »

Personal best dps for me this morning, first set of parses on HotR. Same gear as before, mage mundus, all 10 new blue CP into spell erosion. Plus, my ward just got 1k bigger. 4 skills listed + heavy attack + destro ult.

You might want to consider running Liquid Lightning instead of Lightning Flood, its much better because it has a 10 second duration instead of just 6 seconds.

another skeleton killer. Lightning Flood has higher range improving your AoE damage. You won't notice that on skeleton, thats right.

Merlin13KAGL

Kneighbors wrote: »

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Septimus_Magna wrote: »

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

Personal best dps for me this morning, first set of parses on HotR. Same gear as before, mage mundus, all 10 new blue CP into spell erosion. Plus, my ward just got 1k bigger. 4 skills listed + heavy attack + destro ult.

You might want to consider running Liquid Lightning instead of Lightning Flood, its much better because it has a 10 second duration instead of just 6 seconds.

another skeleton killer. Lightning Flood has higher range improving your AoE damage. You won't notice that on skeleton, thats right.

The added range won't make a difference on boss fights. And for most mob fights, the extra 2 meter radius is negligible, as most adds can be taunted into the 4 meter range of LL.

You're also not factoring the 66% cost increase, as you're going to be casting it almost twice as often.

EDIT: Guess it comes down to whether you're building for PvE or PvP. GIven the fact that @LioraValkyrie is also running Unstable Wall vs Blockade, I'll assume it's a PvP setup, in which case, @Kneighbors is dead on.

Septimus_Magna

Kneighbors wrote: »

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Septimus_Magna wrote: »

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

Personal best dps for me this morning, first set of parses on HotR. Same gear as before, mage mundus, all 10 new blue CP into spell erosion. Plus, my ward just got 1k bigger. 4 skills listed + heavy attack + destro ult.

You might want to consider running Liquid Lightning instead of Lightning Flood, its much better because it has a 10 second duration instead of just 6 seconds.

another skeleton killer. Lightning Flood has higher range improving your AoE damage. You won't notice that on skeleton, thats right.

First of all, I dont really understand where this hostility is coming from. I worded my comment respectfully because I dont know his/her reasons for picking the other morph.

Liquid Lightning is literally the best magicka based ground AOE skill in the game. Maybe you find the bigger AOE radius more important than higher single target dmg and cost reduction but that doesnt mean its actually better.

If you want to improve AOE dmg I would go with Wall of Elements instead of Lightning Flood but each to his own.

Autolycus

left mouse button

Flips

@shreek1

Same here. Had 25k before path now 21-22k dps with necro ilambris willpower (and 30 more CP). Tried different staff trait and gear, infused plus julianos. With apprentice. No luck. Inf seems to give some boost but not much...