Immortal Builds and other Exploits in Cyro

menschikov2

In the last time i have more and more the Problem of impossible things that happen in Cyro.
For example there are personas that Charge you when you are in sneak more then 10 meters away and even if i use the cloak of the NB i can still be attacked and when i still have the sneak-sign on the Screen. I did nothing(and no Assasins mark is at me). I get Meteors and other things on me when i am invisible for everybody. This can't be normal. I never can do this and i am sure this can't be without a Buguse or something else to see peole in sneak. Is there a tool that shous you People taht are in hide or how do they do this?
The second thing that i notice are Builds that can't be possible in my opinion. For example an former Emp that i met today. Stamblade with an nearby impossible amount of sustain how it seemed. We were a grouß of 4 people who fought with him and we could do what ever we want there was no way to bring him out of Stamina. I have a stamblade myself and when i meet such a Group i would be out of magika or Stamina in perhaps 1 or 2 Minutes but we fought more then 10 minutes against him and he never hat Problems neighter with stam nore with mag. He used the cloak perhaps every 5-6 secs, doged nerby every attack and had always the Stamina to break out of Beasttrap, Stun, fear and so on. And at the same time he was still abeled to deal good amounts of damage. To play how he did i think you would Need arround 2k Magreg(perhaps more) and not less then 3-4k Stamreg and you should still have enough weapondamage to deal enough damage. Now, can someone explain me how to have such an Build without Emp? For me this sounds completely impossible.
I could also mention the shieldspamming Sorcs but there i can only see some balancing-misstakes then they survive against many enemies at the same time without even loosing their shields. It is not intended by the devs i think that People mith 5k Magreg run arround and can cast their shield nerby every second if they want.

Excuse my misstakes english is not my first language^^

Publius_Scipio

It depends. Does cheating exist? Yeah of course. Cheating isn't exclusive to ESO. As ZOS updates things to combat cheating I am sure the cheaters tweak their things to bypass checks and balances. It's just the way things are in real life. At the same time, because of game balance/bugs/exploits certain builds can seem extremely strong. Whether it be ridiculous tanking or damage output.

You need to factor in your own build optimization, gear, experience, etc into the equation also.

OdinForge

menschikov2 wrote: »

In the last time i have more and more the Problem of impossible things that happen in Cyro.
For example there are personas that Charge you when you are in sneak more then 10 meters away and even if i use the cloak of the NB i can still be attacked and when i still have the sneak-sign on the Screen. I did nothing(and no Assasins mark is at me). I get Meteors and other things on me when i am invisible for everybody. This can't be normal. I never can do this and i am sure this can't be without a Buguse or something else to see peole in sneak. Is there a tool that shous you People taht are in hide or how do they do this?
The second thing that i notice are Builds that can't be possible in my opinion. For example an former Emp that i met today. Stamblade with an nearby impossible amount of sustain how it seemed. We were a grouß of 4 people who fought with him and we could do what ever we want there was no way to bring him out of Stamina. I have a stamblade myself and when i meet such a Group i would be out of magika or Stamina in perhaps 1 or 2 Minutes but we fought more then 10 minutes against him and he never hat Problems neighter with stam nore with mag. He used the cloak perhaps every 5-6 secs, doged nerby every attack and had always the Stamina to break out of Beasttrap, Stun, fear and so on. And at the same time he was still abeled to deal good amounts of damage. To play how he did i think you would Need arround 2k Magreg(perhaps more) and not less then 3-4k Stamreg and you should still have enough weapondamage to deal enough damage. Now, can someone explain me how to have such an Build without Emp? For me this sounds completely impossible.
I could also mention the shieldspamming Sorcs but there i can only see some balancing-misstakes then they survive against many enemies at the same time without even loosing their shields. It is not intended by the devs i think that People mith 5k Magreg run arround and can cast their shield nerby every second if they want.

Excuse my misstakes english is not my first language^^

You and 3 or 4 other people tried to dog-pile another player and got outplayed. Just because you would die in the same situation, does not mean everyone else should or would. I wouldn't pay attention to titles like that either, former emp/emp means little to nothing in this game.

You don't need 4K stam regen or 2K magicka regen to manage your resources, while still dealing good damage. Everyone's build will vary, but for a stamnb having 1K magicka regen and 2-2.5K stamina regen or more is not unreasonable and more than enough to wrangle pugs.

Rianai

menschikov2 wrote: »

Is there a tool that shous you People taht are in hide or how do they do this?

There are potions and poisons that enable you to see stealthed players.

Hurika

Don't those say "detected" if you're hidden though when they use them on you? I've seen a few players (can't name em) that will meteor or crit rush right into me. Didn't see them drink any detect pots and showed "hidden" on the UI the entire time. Only seen that the last few weeks. Maybe something new going around - maybe not. Not suggesting a conspiracy but had never had it happen before either.

Rianai

It will still say "hidden" even if you got detected by a detect potion user. Not sure about the poisons, but i assume it is the same. Having no warning about being detected is annoying, maybe even a bug (it doesn't make sense to tell you "hidden" when you are not) but it is how those things work right now. No cheats or exploits neccessary.

IcyDeadPeople

menschikov2 wrote: »

I have a stamblade myself and when i meet such a Group i would be out of magika or Stamina in perhaps 1 or 2 Minutes

If you practice managing your resources in duels (which can sometimes go on forever), ideally you will almost never run out. It doesn't mean you have 4k stam regen, but that you learn how to manage it efficiently, how to get the most out of what you spend, get stam back from other resources etc.

Telel

When someone in Telel's group begins to make elf noises about cheaters they have four simple questions.

1) How did they cheat?

2) What class were they?

3) What skills did they use to kill you?

4) If you don't know the answers to all three of those then how do you know they cheated?

Needless to say this one usually only gets an answer to number four. Sadly that answer is often not satisfactory.

ShadowProc

Seeing you while hidden is not an exploit as others have stated. Potion or poison.

Increasing ulti regen or resource regen howeven can be cheating with that famous program or good management. No way to tell. Unfortunately this game makes it too easy and you would never know as they do it low enough as not to raise a red flag but high enough for a substantial advantage. Damage and dodge chance as well. You can see how stupid easy it is on youtube.

We all know who they are though. Just learn their name and stay clear of them. Or better yet ask them their build. And check for yourself, or they will make up some crap how it is "secret". Lol. A lot of them are all in the same circle and defend each other about getting good because you cant dodge 20 projectiles in a row or manage your resources. After the hammer came down when the unlimited meteors were raining down from the sky, there were quite a few that were much easier to kill, or on "vacation." Lol

Rohamad_Ali

If you don't believe people still cheat at this game try reading the forums the cheaters use and it will paint a different picture in your mind . Cheats are still very possible and still used here . Common , people are spotting bot trains everywhere and here in PVP people act like third party software is a Bigfoot hunt ? Don't be so naive .

CyrusArya

Never once encountered a PvP situation where I suspected foul play. Before you jump to the conclusion that someone is cheating, please do make sure that you've exhausted every possible cause for your frustration, and honestly ask yourself if you know what you're talking about.

One common thread i've noticed among all people who complain about cheating and hacks, without fail, is that they are entirely underwhelming on the battlefield. And you have to wonder if there is a reason for that correlation.

Joy_Division

If there are a lot of cheaters in PvP, then they need to get better cheat programs because I don't cheat and I do just fine even though I run a sub-optimal spec.

Most of the frustration felt by players is ignorance. Through enough experience, experiment, and learning the mechanics, people discover the "secret" of how to run what seem like "immortal" builds to new players

rfennell_ESO

The problem is that there is no way to know.

It's plainly obvious that with easy cheating available people will cheat.

Those that deny it at all costs are likely not legit.

Typically a detect pot will open the eye briefly though... When you don't see the eye open at all and some turd is critical rushing you from max range, well you ought be a little skeptical.

However, the see stealthed player poison is not limited to the player you poisoned. It reveals all players that are stealthed and it has pretty good range. It isn't like piercing mark at all... it gives you the ability to see stealthed/invis for the duration. Obviously looking at the tooltip of that poison might give you a different understanding, and it's likely not even intended to operate as it does. Oh and it will open the eye of the person you poisoned, but not anyone else.

One would have to test it, but using that poison and crusader set will likely reveal a large area of stealthed/invis.

Technically "invis" should not be affected by see stealth the same way as it's not stealth. It doesn't have a stealth radius to calculate and normally the only way to detect players invising is detect pot or magelight/evil hunter and only at a 10m range.

Rohamad_Ali

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The problem is that there is no way to know.

It's plainly obvious that with easy cheating available people will cheat.

Those that deny it at all costs are likely not legit.

Typically a detect pot will open the eye briefly though... When you don't see the eye open at all and some turd is critical rushing you from max range, well you ought be a little skeptical.

However, the see stealthed player poison is not limited to the player you poisoned. It reveals all players that are stealthed and it has pretty good range. It isn't like piercing mark at all... it gives you the ability to see stealthed/invis for the duration. Obviously looking at the tooltip of that poison might give you a different understanding, and it's likely not even intended to operate as it does. Oh and it will open the eye of the person you poisoned, but not anyone else.

One would have to test it, but using that poison and crusader set will likely reveal a large area of stealthed/invis.

Technically "invis" should not be affected by see stealth the same way as it's not stealth. It doesn't have a stealth radius to calculate and normally the only way to detect players invising is detect pot or magelight/evil hunter and only at a 10m range.

For two years cheat engine was used and people laughed off cheating as just an excuse on the forums repeatedly until one dozens of people all ran it into the extreme and flew across cyrodill launching meteor showers until people went ok I can see the cheats now . People that used it low key just to "tune up" speeds and recoveries were really upset at the display . Then came the why did I get banned wrongfully claims . The amount of people banned was staggering . So for those that don't remember history those are the facts here and many of those people were allowed back or made new accounts and never left . To say otherwise is just trying to pull a curtain back over a blown up stage . We've already been shown that those that can cheat will , it's apart of this community now . ZOS is constantly attempting to find ways to slow it down but the cheaters work harder and longer hours so guess who wins every time . The policies have to change before the problem ever goes away .

zyk

The fact is ESO is vulnerable to memory hacking. That means either this community is sainted or there are many cheaters among us.

To deny it outright at this point is not only absurd, but also suspicious.

rfennell_ESO

zyk wrote: »

The fact is ESO is vulnerable to memory hacking. That means either this community is sainted or there are many cheaters among us.

To deny it outright at this point is not only absurd, but also suspicious.

Of course it's suspicious, what recourse is the cheater to have past total denial?

The usual suspects always have the usual replies.

Bogdan_Kobzar

.

joe.smith21b14_ESO

It's your cloak bud your cloak will always show you as hidden if your being attacked while using cloak you definitely have a det pot on you also the poisons I'm pretty sure work like mage light

menschikov2

Hurika wrote: »

Don't those say "detected" if you're hidden though when they use them on you? I've seen a few players (can't name em) that will meteor or crit rush right into me. Didn't see them drink any detect pots and showed "hidden" on the UI the entire time. Only seen that the last few weeks. Maybe something new going around - maybe not. Not suggesting a conspiracy but had never had it happen before either.

Exactly what i had too. I get Meteors even if i am in sneak and all the time hidden-sign till the Meteor hits me.

Joy_Division wrote: »

If there are a lot of cheaters in PvP, then they need to get better cheat programs because I don't cheat and I do just fine even though I run a sub-optimal spec.

Most of the frustration felt by players is ignorance. Through enough experience, experiment, and learning the mechanics, people discover the "secret" of how to run what seem like "immortal" builds to new players

I can learn as much mechanic as i want but if i get charged while i am in hide all the time i can't do something. Sure it is importatnt to know how to Play but my Problem is that this has nothing to do with learning it is about the fact that i can't do anything against getting focused when i should be invisible and safe.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The problem is that there is no way to know.

It's plainly obvious that with easy cheating available people will cheat.

Those that deny it at all costs are likely not legit.

Typically a detect pot will open the eye briefly though... When you don't see the eye open at all and some turd is critical rushing you from max range, well you ought be a little skeptical.

However, the see stealthed player poison is not limited to the player you poisoned. It reveals all players that are stealthed and it has pretty good range. It isn't like piercing mark at all... it gives you the ability to see stealthed/invis for the duration. Obviously looking at the tooltip of that poison might give you a different understanding, and it's likely not even intended to operate as it does. Oh and it will open the eye of the person you poisoned, but not anyone else.

One would have to test it, but using that poison and crusader set will likely reveal a large area of stealthed/invis.

Technically "invis" should not be affected by see stealth the same way as it's not stealth. It doesn't have a stealth radius to calculate and normally the only way to detect players invising is detect pot or magelight/evil hunter and only at a 10m range.

Maybe sometimes this Poison is a reason but i had also situations when i was only sitting on a rock and waiting near bleaakers. The enemies had no fight before(just respawned at Bleakers) so no possibilety to proc the poison and even then i got charged instant when they came allong and the hidden-sign was there till the Charge reached me.

Zbigb4life

Same thing happened to me. I was hiding and without being detected I got killed in 1 second with 4 different skills. So frustrating that this cheating doesn't stop and ZOS doesn't respond to this.

ShadowProc

CyrusArya wrote: »

Never once encountered a PvP situation where I suspected foul play. Before you jump to the conclusion that someone is cheating, please do make sure that you've exhausted every possible cause for your frustration, and honestly ask yourself if you know what you're talking about.

One common thread i've noticed among all people who complain about cheating and hacks, without fail, is that they are entirely underwhelming on the battlefield. And you have to wonder if there is a reason for that correlation.

How can u say that after CE scandal? You cant be that naive.

CyrusArya

ShadowProc wrote: »

How can u say that after CE scandal? You cant be that naive.

You can't be that bad at reading comprehension. I never said cheating was not possible. What I said, is that I have personally never come across a situation where I suspected foul play must have been the reason for my defeat. I was at the beach the week of the CE scandal.

Drummerx04

I've seen a lot of accusations in zone recently about people running CE because there's "no way that guy could survive against and kill 5+ people without running out of resources." But that same guy I can kill either solo or with maybe one random pug that I occasionally shield to keep alive.

I'm no pvp savant, but as long as you have a decent build with decent damage and you layer on the pressure and CC, the "unkillable" non-tanks will generally go down without much fuss.

The specific instance of being detected and killed quickly I can't really comment on. But this game does also experience periodic lag spikes, sometimes upwards of 10 seconds. Plenty of time to kill you more or less "legit" albeit unfair to you.

Malic

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The problem is that there is no way to know.

It's plainly obvious that with easy cheating available people will cheat.

Those that deny it at all costs are likely not legit.

Typically a detect pot will open the eye briefly though... When you don't see the eye open at all and some turd is critical rushing you from max range, well you ought be a little skeptical.

However, the see stealthed player poison is not limited to the player you poisoned. It reveals all players that are stealthed and it has pretty good range. It isn't like piercing mark at all... it gives you the ability to see stealthed/invis for the duration. Obviously looking at the tooltip of that poison might give you a different understanding, and it's likely not even intended to operate as it does. Oh and it will open the eye of the person you poisoned, but not anyone else.

One would have to test it, but using that poison and crusader set will likely reveal a large area of stealthed/invis.

Technically "invis" should not be affected by see stealth the same way as it's not stealth. It doesn't have a stealth radius to calculate and normally the only way to detect players invising is detect pot or magelight/evil hunter and only at a 10m range.

For two years cheat engine was used and people laughed off cheating as just an excuse on the forums repeatedly until one dozens of people all ran it into the extreme and flew across cyrodill launching meteor showers until people went ok I can see the cheats now . People that used it low key just to "tune up" speeds and recoveries were really upset at the display . Then came the why did I get banned wrongfully claims . The amount of people banned was staggering . So for those that don't remember history those are the facts here and many of those people were allowed back or made new accounts and never left . To say otherwise is just trying to pull a curtain back over a blown up stage . We've already been shown that those that can cheat will , it's apart of this community now . ZOS is constantly attempting to find ways to slow it down but the cheaters work harder and longer hours so guess who wins every time . The policies have to change before the problem ever goes away .

Nearly agreed with everything you posted. where we part ways is ZOS. ***. *** they are constantly attempting to find ways to slow it down. Consequences have always been the best way to eliminate undesirable behavior. A lot of those people got back into the game, just by asking nicely.

ZOS let them back in, you perm ban people that cheat. PERM ban that means NEVER getting back in and if they do get in by circumvention you keep banning them.

Zos isnt doing that, and they dam well know who used and uses cheats. Its not as wide spread as it used to be, but its out there.

zyk

Actually, there is no evidence ZOS is doing very much substantial to mitigate cheating in ESO.

This kind of cheating is as old as electronic gaming. Its impact to online games was well-understood years before ESO began development. ZOS was negligent and remains so.

Cheating isn't limited to memory hacking. There are many vectors. It takes a multifaceted solution like VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat) to limit cheating to the greatest degree possible. Reading the history of VAC can give some insight.

We don't know how widespread cheating is in ESO, but we have some idea about how common it is in other games. Valve lets cheaters get away with cheating for a while so the cheats serve as a honeypot and bans in waves. It's normal for ban waves to result in thousands of bans. Cheating in other games is very common. It is naive to think it is not so in ESO -- especially because it lacks robust mitigation tools.

What you also see in games with robust anti-cheat tools is supreme denial. When caught, cheaters continue to proclaim their innocence. Which makes sense because if someone doesn't have the ethics to play fair, they probably have no issue lying either.

With that said, I do not advocate witch hunts. I think players should /bug and /report things they believe to be suspicious, but it is reckless to proclaim a player a cheater without strong evidence.

Qbiken

Was expecting a permablocking DK when I read about "immortal build", was not expecting a stamblade. When it comes to sustain you can achieve Close to 3k stamregen without much trouble (Bonepirate+Dubious drink+Bosmer, perhaps even the WW-ulti on backbar for some extra regen). Regarding the stealth: Those players probably used detectionpots, and as far as I know they won´t show you as "detected" on your screen.

Derra

[quote="rfennell_ESO;c-4411226"
Those that deny it at all costs are likely not legit.
[/quote]

Man. You can´t possibly be serious with that statement.

RinaldoGandolphi

I think most of the folks who were using CE either got banned or quit the game out of boredom. Even if they were cheating the lag probably drove them away too lol

Nutshotz

The only true way to test out the detection pots and detection poisons is to grab a friend of the opposite faction and go somewhere in cyro and test it and see if your eye pops open and record it! So you have valid proof on both ends and you can compare the proof from 2 different points of views.

As for zos allowing the ban wagon players for using CE back I'm scratching my head on that one. No logical answer for that one, well if they are allowing those players back than they shall allow players who got banned like sneaky, bks and so forth back! #bringbacksneakypickle&Bks

Ackwalan

Plausible deniability is a cheaters best weapon. Being 98% sure someone is cheating is not enough proof. You see it all over threads like this.

umagon

menschikov2 wrote: »

In the last time i have more and more the Problem of impossible things that happen in Cyro.
For example there are personas that Charge you when you are in sneak more then 10 meters away and even if i use the cloak of the NB i can still be attacked and when i still have the sneak-sign on the Screen. I did nothing(and no Assasins mark is at me). I get Meteors and other things on me when i am invisible for everybody. This can't be normal. I never can do this and i am sure this can't be without a Buguse or something else to see peole in sneak. Is there a tool that shous you People taht are in hide or how do they do this?
The second thing that i notice are Builds that can't be possible in my opinion. For example an former Emp that i met today. Stamblade with an nearby impossible amount of sustain how it seemed. We were a grouß of 4 people who fought with him and we could do what ever we want there was no way to bring him out of Stamina. I have a stamblade myself and when i meet such a Group i would be out of magika or Stamina in perhaps 1 or 2 Minutes but we fought more then 10 minutes against him and he never hat Problems neighter with stam nore with mag. He used the cloak perhaps every 5-6 secs, doged nerby every attack and had always the Stamina to break out of Beasttrap, Stun, fear and so on. And at the same time he was still abeled to deal good amounts of damage. To play how he did i think you would Need arround 2k Magreg(perhaps more) and not less then 3-4k Stamreg and you should still have enough weapondamage to deal enough damage. Now, can someone explain me how to have such an Build without Emp? For me this sounds completely impossible.
I could also mention the shieldspamming Sorcs but there i can only see some balancing-misstakes then they survive against many enemies at the same time without even loosing their shields. It is not intended by the devs i think that People mith 5k Magreg run arround and can cast their shield nerby every second if they want.

Excuse my misstakes english is not my first language^^

Google the whole string of words as shown: "esp" "hack" "radar"; elder scrolls online

And one will find there are and have been 3rd party tools made for the game. Tools that currently work are normally not posted in public areas, they are posted in private forums.

Both nvidia and amd offer free video capturing software. The best approach would be to use the software to record players who are exhibiting suspicious behavior. Then upload it somewhere private, make a ticket and send the link to zos.