Why cost increase poisons need to be removed. What sums it up imo..

olsborg

Outcome 1: You have a fight, lets say a 1v3 or any kind of 1vX. Its going well, you kill 1 or 2ish players, but eventually die...you immediately review the fight and think to yourself "I coulda done that or that and maybe the fight woulda gone differently" you atempt to learn from it, and adapt and inevitably get better, if only a smidge each time. But you enjoyed it and think of it as a good fight, and you get back out there to chase more good fights.

Outcome 2: You have a fight, lets say a 1v3 or any kind of 1vX. Its going well, you damage or maybe even kill 1 players, but your otherwise well tought out build, runs out of resources faster then you could ever have thought and you die because you simply couldnt use any more skills. You basicly come to the conclusion that someone must have been using cost poisons and it wouldnt have mattered what your build was, youd have ended up the same way no matter what. You think to yourself, "F this *** im outta here"


Toughts?

Emma_Overload

Nobody asked for these poisons, and nobody likes them. I still don't understand why they are in the game.

geonsocal

bad mix with no cp...

pcar944

worst part is when you run into a group and they run all different poisons - drain ones and immobile ones

getting t-bagged afterwards is the real treat

Derra

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nobody asked for these poisons, and nobody likes them. I still don't understand why they are in the game.

Well the devs seem to like them otherwise they wouldn´t be in the game?

mook-eb16_ESO

The problem here is how to keep everyone satisfied; good players and not soo good players. If good players win all the time then the problem is that more casual gamers give up. if good gamers don't feel they are winning enough for there skill levels then they give up. and here lie's the conundrum of developer . I guess in part this why they implemented these, to help people combat players that cant be hard cc'd or snared etc. Of course resource poisons are the best counter for sorc and dodge builds(non heavy armour) as they are resource intensive. Group play is prob best counter to resource poisons, which is how the developers intended people to play, but of course you already know this. I don't use poisons I like a battle :)Still come next patch as a sorc this will be the least of your worries

Smmokkee

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nobody asked for these poisons, and nobody likes them. I still don't understand why they are in the game.

Agree completely. These need to go.

olsborg

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nobody asked for these poisons, and nobody likes them. I still don't understand why they are in the game.

Agreed.

Wreuntzylla

olsborg wrote: »

Outcome 1: You have a fight, lets say a 1v3 or any kind of 1vX. Its going well, you kill 1 or 2ish players, but eventually die...you immediately review the fight and think to yourself "I coulda done that or that and maybe the fight woulda gone differently" you atempt to learn from it, and adapt and inevitably get better, if only a smidge each time. But you enjoyed it and think of it as a good fight, and you get back out there to chase more good fights.

Outcome 2: You have a fight, lets say a 1v3 or any kind of 1vX. Its going well, you damage or maybe even kill 1 players, but your otherwise well tought out build, runs out of resources faster then you could ever have thought and you die because you simply couldnt use any more skills. You basicly come to the conclusion that someone must have been using cost poisons and it wouldnt have mattered what your build was, youd have ended up the same way no matter what. You think to yourself, "F this *** im outta here"


Toughts?

When you are affected by poisons you run out of resources fast enough you know it was a poison. If you have to come to a conclusion, your opponent was probably spec'd into siphoner. Since poisons and siphoner were implemented months apart, with tons of complaints in the interim, don't expect to see a nerf to resource poisons.

On a bright note, you can purge the siphoner debuff!

Edit: The moral of the story is that ZoS went after sustain by countering cost reduction with poison, people started using high regen builds to counter poisons, so ZoS addeds siphoner to counter those lich builds. A concerted effort to make resources a problem...

Vapirko

Yup get them out, not nerfed, removed.

Lord-Otto

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nobody asked for these poisons, and nobody likes them. I still don't understand why they are in the game.

We did ask for damage poisons. Something to replace enchantments and make negative effects on ingredients useful.
ZOS overshot it. Constant resource stunting is the problem, imo. If we had poisons that drained a fixed amount of a resource over time, things would be more balanced, I think. And fun. And of course, not stackable. To make it more effective against groups, not another zerg tool. Hm...

idk

1v3 or any 1vX beyond 1v1 when all players are of even skill level is always an absurd comparison. The odds are against someone. Always get a kick out of the threads that complain about something and end up saying x number of players were hitting me with that.

I am not saying anything either way about poisons, but both of those fights you should have lost if skill is not the issue. However, poisons are the counter to poisons and counter to what some have said, poisons have been requested since about the time the game launched.

In case it is not clear, I got fed up with poisons. Started using them when in BGs or solo/small group Cyro. It is essentially the counter.

Lord-Otto

Yoah, maybe I'm still wearing the pink glasses and think this game could be saved. Poisons would have been a chance. But if we give up and accept Cyrodiil should be about numbers, not skill, then, well...

ToRelax

mook-eb16_ESO wrote: »

The problem here is how to keep everyone satisfied; good players and not soo good players. If good players win all the time then the problem is that more casual gamers give up. if good gamers don't feel they are winning enough for there skill levels then they give up. and here lie's the conundrum of developer . I guess in part this why they implemented these, to help people combat players that cant be hard cc'd or snared etc. Of course resource poisons are the best counter for sorc and dodge builds(non heavy armour) as they are resource intensive. Group play is prob best counter to resource poisons, which is how the developers intended people to play, but of course you already know this. I don't use poisons I like a battle :)Still come next patch as a sorc this will be the least of your worries

In my experience, if you want to keep players interested in PvP, make it so they can contribute to a fight with their decisions and learned ability. Players were happy when they could make a difference by using the right skill at the right time, or when they could see that they were getting better at whatever they were doing.
Very low ttk means they will die much more often, nigh unlimited sustain means they don't make much of a difference when hitting a hard target and poisons don't connect a won fight to any decision they made while leaving them without options how to deal with this problem if they died as a result of being poisoned.
So, poisons, like many other things in this game, would mostly seem to cater to players who are unwilling to improve but feel entitled to win a good amount of the time anyway. And between those mindsets lies the problem, I think. With players being actual people, obviously most will show some characteristics of both mindsets, and a smart developer should then, imo, try to strike a balance that will give most players a basis with reasonably effective and easily useable tools, rather than trying to keep all players happy by making the best tools also easy to use effectively. That just alienates the more skilled players and keeps the rest from improving.

leepalmer95

People said 30% was way too strong when these was still on the pts being tested. Zos ignored them.

Instead between the 4th pts patch and the live patch zos decided to buff them to 60% instead for some weird reason i can't fathom.

A year later it gets put down to 30%.... after the sustain nerfs.

They was OP before the sustain nerfs, they're OP after the sustain nerfs.

Remove them zos, no one asked for them, no one likes them. Just another broken thing that caters to zergers.

gepe87

I rather be killed by a procblade than any stupid player using resource ravage poisons...Last night i got killed by 2 players, one using ravage stamina and another with ravage magicka. I had no option against that. Is this useful in PvP?
And they nerf NB crit damage 'cause the victim has no option to counter them...But forget about poisons.

The_Duke

I played in non vet pvp for the first time in years the other day and ran into a tryhard rocking procsets and resource poisons. Some people have no life. Talk about griefing new players. Lol

Koensol

Of all the things that *** me off in PvP, resource poisons are the worst. Literally the most OP thing in the game at this moment.

olsborg

Koensol wrote: »

Of all the things that *** me off in PvP, resource poisons are the worst. Literally the most OP thing in the game at this moment.

Main problem is that they have such a HUGE impact. The difference in a fight with or without them is night and day...for the worse.

olsborg

It should only be possible to be debuffed by these poisons if and while you have them slotted yourself

Hatoreehanzo

The idea is great, the execution is horrible.
Leave "effects" to 5p item sets. That way you give to take. Currently it's take to take.
Losing an enchant to a poison has little effect when you have two bars to utilize.

Maryal

If they just got rid of cost poison and left the other ones in the game, I'd be happy.

If they want to leave them in, then there should be a definite visual signal as soon as you get hit with one (when my skills won't go off, I shouldn't have to wonder if it was due to lag, frame-rate issue, or cost increase poison) , AND you should be able to purge all alchemical poisons. Well, I suppose if you are using the alliance purge ability/skill, a cost increase poison may eat up your stamina, preventing you from casting purge. Maybe they could change one of the alliance skills or a morph of one, so that using it nullifies any resource poison you have been effected with ... however, the skill would have to cost 0 (zero) resource to use.

They tell us that part of the game is design is for us to 'manage our resources' ... but you can't manage something that you have no control over, and you have no control over the other person per-pewing you with resource poisons. I supposed you could just not pvp, but that would be a stupid solution. It's not a matter of ltp, because cost increase poisons have nothing to do with skill.

Gothren

they have a purpose for those builds that beef up their damage output at the sacrifice of resource regen. poisons help punish that playstyle.

olsborg

Gothren wrote: »

they have a purpose for those builds that beef up their damage output at the sacrifice of resource regen. poisons help punish that playstyle.

The cost poisons have such a huge impact on your gameplay that if you're a sustain build, you will also run out of resources fast enough. Thats the stupid..

Drakkdjinn

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nobody asked for these poisons, and nobody likes them. I still don't understand why they are in the game.

Quoted for truth.

Drakkdjinn

Gothren wrote: »

they have a purpose for those builds that beef up their damage output at the sacrifice of resource regen. poisons help punish that playstyle.

and punish everyone else too for that matter, their numbers need to be halved, at least

IlCanis_LupuslI

olsborg wrote: »

Outcome 1: You have a fight, lets say a 1v3 or any kind of 1vX. Its going well, you kill 1 or 2ish players, but eventually die...you immediately review the fight and think to yourself "I coulda done that or that and maybe the fight woulda gone differently" you atempt to learn from it, and adapt and inevitably get better, if only a smidge each time. But you enjoyed it and think of it as a good fight, and you get back out there to chase more good fights.

Outcome 2: You have a fight, lets say a 1v3 or any kind of 1vX. Its going well, you damage or maybe even kill 1 players, but your otherwise well tought out build, runs out of resources faster then you could ever have thought and you die because you simply couldnt use any more skills. You basicly come to the conclusion that someone must have been using cost poisons and it wouldnt have mattered what your build was, youd have ended up the same way no matter what. You think to yourself, "F this *** im outta here"


Toughts?

olsborg wrote: »

Outcome 1: You have a fight, lets say a 1v3 or any kind of 1vX. Its going well, you kill 1 or 2ish players, but eventually die...you immediately review the fight and think to yourself "I coulda done that or that and maybe the fight woulda gone differently" you atempt to learn from it, and adapt and inevitably get better, if only a smidge each time. But you enjoyed it and think of it as a good fight, and you get back out there to chase more good fights.

Outcome 2: You have a fight, lets say a 1v3 or any kind of 1vX. Its going well, you damage or maybe even kill 1 players, but your otherwise well tought out build, runs out of resources faster then you could ever have thought and you die because you simply couldnt use any more skills. You basicly come to the conclusion that someone must have been using cost poisons and it wouldnt have mattered what your build was, youd have ended up the same way no matter what. You think to yourself, "F this *** im outta here"


Toughts?

@olsborg My advice= Monitor your buff and debuff tracker more closely, the cost increase is indicated, if you see it flashing up tune down your resource spending to a mimimum . I have no issues while doing that. I also got my friend to put in fallas and reverberating bash so can see and memorize the major and minor defile symbols in the buff tracker; highly recommendable grab a buddy and let him hit yo,with the dbuff , then when in PvP you can act accordingly. E. G. Never rally while major je minor defile tune down dps while resource poisoned etc

Zer0oo

Everyone know how unbalanced they are and they are still in the game. The pvp dev don't really care about balance and they want to give players a easy way to win fight.



What even when you outnumber your opponent he kites you so he/she can actual win? Ok, now every skill in this game will snare him/her and gap closer will root him in place. Also nerf all mobility skills

Have problems to fight a sorc? Here have shield breaker and now you can easy win again a better player when he/she is a sorc or need a shield to survive

You don't know how to setup burst with using skills? Here take proc sets and light attacks will do the job for you

What you opponent never runs out of resources since he/she did make a good pvp build? Here use cost increase poisons and now you can easy win

olsborg

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Outcome 1: You have a fight, lets say a 1v3 or any kind of 1vX. Its going well, you kill 1 or 2ish players, but eventually die...you immediately review the fight and think to yourself "I coulda done that or that and maybe the fight woulda gone differently" you atempt to learn from it, and adapt and inevitably get better, if only a smidge each time. But you enjoyed it and think of it as a good fight, and you get back out there to chase more good fights.

Outcome 2: You have a fight, lets say a 1v3 or any kind of 1vX. Its going well, you damage or maybe even kill 1 players, but your otherwise well tought out build, runs out of resources faster then you could ever have thought and you die because you simply couldnt use any more skills. You basicly come to the conclusion that someone must have been using cost poisons and it wouldnt have mattered what your build was, youd have ended up the same way no matter what. You think to yourself, "F this *** im outta here"


Toughts?

olsborg wrote: »

Outcome 1: You have a fight, lets say a 1v3 or any kind of 1vX. Its going well, you kill 1 or 2ish players, but eventually die...you immediately review the fight and think to yourself "I coulda done that or that and maybe the fight woulda gone differently" you atempt to learn from it, and adapt and inevitably get better, if only a smidge each time. But you enjoyed it and think of it as a good fight, and you get back out there to chase more good fights.

Outcome 2: You have a fight, lets say a 1v3 or any kind of 1vX. Its going well, you damage or maybe even kill 1 players, but your otherwise well tought out build, runs out of resources faster then you could ever have thought and you die because you simply couldnt use any more skills. You basicly come to the conclusion that someone must have been using cost poisons and it wouldnt have mattered what your build was, youd have ended up the same way no matter what. You think to yourself, "F this *** im outta here"


Toughts?

@olsborg My advice= Monitor your buff and debuff tracker more closely, the cost increase is indicated, if you see it flashing up tune down your resource spending to a mimimum . I have no issues while doing that. I also got my friend to put in fallas and reverberating bash so can see and memorize the major and minor defile symbols in the buff tracker; highly recommendable grab a buddy and let him hit yo,with the dbuff , then when in PvP you can act accordingly. E. G. Never rally while major je minor defile tune down dps while resource poisoned etc

In some fights this will work, but when you're fighting on a battlefield where multiple players are using these poisons, they will get reapplied to you quite rapidly.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Outcome 2: You have a fight, lets say a 1v3 or any kind of 1vX. Its going well......You basicly come to the conclusion that someone must have been using cost poisons.....

*pop tri-potion when needed* + = gf

GreenSoup2HoT

I dont mind resource poisons. It makes regen builds more usful. Im always tired of hearing max stat stacking builds with no regen.