Revert dragon leap range nerf.

ak_pvp

Many moons ago, there existed an exploit, one that allowed gapclosers to allow players to get on top of keeps, walls and outposts without breaching walls. This was a dark time, many thought ZOS had forsaken them, it had been a while before they fixed it... But it had not been without casualties.

To combat this, they made dragon leap unaffected by the reach passive as a hotfix, but never reverted it. This is utter lazy BS, the fact that they took so long to fix a problem and instead punished an ability that to this day has not been fixed.

Change it.

olsborg

At the top of the list of ultimates that do not need a buff in any way, is leap.

Luigi_Vampa

I think you should be able to leap onto keeps. It was fun and usually suicidal. Too many barriers to fun and dynamic gameplay.

GrumpyDuckling

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

I think you should be able to leap onto keeps. It was fun and usually suicidal. Too many barriers to fun and dynamic gameplay.

I think it's so ridiculous how how ladders exist all over the place in this game, but we can't use them at keeps?

There are tactical strategies for keep capturing that exist beyond destroying doors and walls. Put ladders in. They would be suicidal if someone notices you climbing a ladder, but at least it would add more strategy into keep capture.

Luigi_Vampa

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

I think you should be able to leap onto keeps. It was fun and usually suicidal. Too many barriers to fun and dynamic gameplay.

I think it's so ridiculous how how ladders exist all over the place in this game, but we can't use them at keeps?

There are tactical strategies for keep capturing that exist beyond destroying doors and walls. Put ladders in. They would be suicidal if someone notices you climbing a ladder, but at least it would add more strategy into keep capture.

I agree. There should be multiple ways to take keeps. Small man squads stealthing into a keep with ladders, DKs leaping onto the walls to cause mayhem during a siege. Siege towers you can push towards walls and gap close across. Let us play around and innovate. Bring in dynamic gameplay.

Juhasow

Well Take Flight morph is 28m range so it should be affected in PvP.

Rohamad_Ali

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

I think you should be able to leap onto keeps. It was fun and usually suicidal. Too many barriers to fun and dynamic gameplay.

I think it's so ridiculous how how ladders exist all over the place in this game, but we can't use them at keeps?

There are tactical strategies for keep capturing that exist beyond destroying doors and walls. Put ladders in. They would be suicidal if someone notices you climbing a ladder, but at least it would add more strategy into keep capture.

I agree. There should be multiple ways to take keeps. Small man squads stealthing into a keep with ladders, DKs leaping onto the walls to cause mayhem during a siege. Siege towers you can push towards walls and gap close across. Let us play around and innovate. Bring in dynamic gameplay.

IN theory it may sound fun but in reality it would just lead to security guards online in Cyrodil . Less people moving towards objectives and more people playing security guards and camping their castles . It would lead to a lot more PVE against unguarded places and fighting NPCs while no one knows a castle is under attack . The system now encourages PVP to happen more then PVE stealth takes .

GrumpyDuckling

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

I think you should be able to leap onto keeps. It was fun and usually suicidal. Too many barriers to fun and dynamic gameplay.

I think it's so ridiculous how how ladders exist all over the place in this game, but we can't use them at keeps?

There are tactical strategies for keep capturing that exist beyond destroying doors and walls. Put ladders in. They would be suicidal if someone notices you climbing a ladder, but at least it would add more strategy into keep capture.

I agree. There should be multiple ways to take keeps. Small man squads stealthing into a keep with ladders, DKs leaping onto the walls to cause mayhem during a siege. Siege towers you can push towards walls and gap close across. Let us play around and innovate. Bring in dynamic gameplay.

IN theory it may sound fun but in reality it would just lead to security guards online in Cyrodil . Less people moving towards objectives and more people playing security guards and camping their castles . It would lead to a lot more PVE against unguarded places and fighting NPCs while no one knows a castle is under attack . The system now encourages PVP to happen more then PVE stealth takes .

The system now encourages large group PVP. Not saying it is wrong, it's a war after all, but it would be nice to have options. Right now the most effective keep capture is numbers. It's the quickest way to bust down doors and walls, as well as the quickest way to eliminate NPC enemies.

ak_pvp

olsborg wrote: »

At the top of the list of ultimates that do not need a buff in any way, is leap.

Wait?

So its OK to nerf an aspect of a class for ZOS's incompetence at fixing a mechanic.

OK, lets make shields 1 second each to stop shield stacking. Makes sense.

Rohamad_Ali

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

I think you should be able to leap onto keeps. It was fun and usually suicidal. Too many barriers to fun and dynamic gameplay.

I think it's so ridiculous how how ladders exist all over the place in this game, but we can't use them at keeps?

There are tactical strategies for keep capturing that exist beyond destroying doors and walls. Put ladders in. They would be suicidal if someone notices you climbing a ladder, but at least it would add more strategy into keep capture.

I agree. There should be multiple ways to take keeps. Small man squads stealthing into a keep with ladders, DKs leaping onto the walls to cause mayhem during a siege. Siege towers you can push towards walls and gap close across. Let us play around and innovate. Bring in dynamic gameplay.

IN theory it may sound fun but in reality it would just lead to security guards online in Cyrodil . Less people moving towards objectives and more people playing security guards and camping their castles . It would lead to a lot more PVE against unguarded places and fighting NPCs while no one knows a castle is under attack . The system now encourages PVP to happen more then PVE stealth takes .

The system now encourages large group PVP. Not saying it is wrong, it's a war after all, but it would be nice to have options. Right now the most effective keep capture is numbers. It's the quickest way to bust down doors and walls, as well as the quickest way to eliminate NPC enemies.

That's a perspective . Right now a group of 6 good players can lay down the siege limit and take a keep in under 5 minutes . The burst system is the only thing notifying other players there is a attack and PVP potential . A group of 5 with a ram can go even faster if operating siege next to ram . A really good small group of players can do a lot and beat larger numbers in this game if optimized for small group play .

SugaComa

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

I think you should be able to leap onto keeps. It was fun and usually suicidal. Too many barriers to fun and dynamic gameplay.

I think it's so ridiculous how how ladders exist all over the place in this game, but we can't use them at keeps?

There are tactical strategies for keep capturing that exist beyond destroying doors and walls. Put ladders in. They would be suicidal if someone notices you climbing a ladder, but at least it would add more strategy into keep capture.

I agree. There should be multiple ways to take keeps. Small man squads stealthing into a keep with ladders, DKs leaping onto the walls to cause mayhem during a siege. Siege towers you can push towards walls and gap close across. Let us play around and innovate. Bring in dynamic gameplay.

IN theory it may sound fun but in reality it would just lead to security guards online in Cyrodil . Less people moving towards objectives and more people playing security guards and camping their castles . It would lead to a lot more PVE against unguarded places and fighting NPCs while no one knows a castle is under attack . The system now encourages PVP to happen more then PVE stealth takes .

The system now encourages large group PVP. Not saying it is wrong, it's a war after all, but it would be nice to have options. Right now the most effective keep capture is numbers. It's the quickest way to bust down doors and walls, as well as the quickest way to eliminate NPC enemies.

Not true ...

We had I've seen large groups and small groups do damage in cyrodil ...

I've seen small groups out think large groups and wipe them from the map

The game needs a few adjustments some I think would make a more balanced game would be unpopular though

Such as proc sets only proc from the highest tiered item

So if you're running two proc sets only one will ever actually proc , tier would run from head down

So what ever proc is on the helmet is the one that triggers

Helmet not part of a proc set moves down to the chest, then shoulders n so on

None of this double stacking ***

Avnr

we back to boxed pvp , you must breach the wall while in group - boxed.

gapcloser pvp was so fun and interesting , the hordes ma keep try breach the walls while others "climb" the walls

Savos_Saren

olsborg wrote: »

At the top of the list of ultimates that do not need a buff in any way, is leap.

He's not asking for a buff. He's saying that ZoS screwed up the mechanic of Dragon Leap when they "fixed it". Dragon Leap, quite literally, will not function if someone is up a few steps higher than you. Its linear mechanic is broken.

Imagine if you were a NB and you couldn't use Ambush on someone who was on a rock.

...or Templar who couldn't use Focused Charge on someone standing on a box. (I think this actually happens sometimes)

...or a Sorcerer who was trying to escape a keep wall- but you couldn't use Bolt Escape because the ground isn't even with the wall.

...or a Warden who couldn't sling their healing *** thingy at people. ( Ya'll disgusting!)

dmar613

I miss my old leaps. Used to be able to leap onto and off keep walls, resource towers from third story, they never saw it coming lol. Loved reflecting meteors and following with leap.

Now, I cant leap off of a ; wall, resource tower, stairs, some rocks and terrain were i have elevation advantage. man the carnage i used to cause lol i wish i could fix my old xbox to pull clips from.

edit. funny thing is i made a ticket about this a couple days ago and they never even replied back

EnOeZ

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

I think you should be able to leap onto keeps. It was fun and usually suicidal. Too many barriers to fun and dynamic gameplay.

I absolutely think the same !

Vizier

....because Dragon Leap is SOOOOO underperforming right now. (smirk)

idk

ak_pvp wrote: »

Many moons ago, there existed an exploit, one that allowed gapclosers to allow players to get on top of keeps, walls and outposts without breaching walls. This was a dark time, many thought ZOS had forsaken them, it had been a while before they fixed it... But it had not been without casualties.

To combat this, they made dragon leap unaffected by the reach passive as a hotfix, but never reverted it. This is utter lazy BS, the fact that they took so long to fix a problem and instead punished an ability that to this day has not been fixed.

Change it.

It's essentially a gap closer. They made it so any and all gap closers where not affected by passives and skills that extend reach. It's not BS.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

I think you should be able to leap onto keeps. It was fun and usually suicidal. Too many barriers to fun and dynamic gameplay.

I think it's so ridiculous how how ladders exist all over the place in this game, but we can't use them at keeps?

There are tactical strategies for keep capturing that exist beyond destroying doors and walls. Put ladders in. They would be suicidal if someone notices you climbing a ladder, but at least it would add more strategy into keep capture.

I agree. There should be multiple ways to take keeps. Small man squads stealthing into a keep with ladders, DKs leaping onto the walls to cause mayhem during a siege. Siege towers you can push towards walls and gap close across. Let us play around and innovate. Bring in dynamic gameplay.

I“DKs leaping in during siege causing mayham. “ Hmmmm I guarantee in 1 Week every keep taking group will consist of 25+ dks only just all jumping in instead of sieging. Players are usually stupid instead of keeping exploits a secret they overdo so much it ruins PvP. So=hell no!!

IlCanis_LupuslI

Avnr wrote: »

we back to boxed pvp , you must breach the wall while in group - boxed.

gapcloser pvp was so fun and interesting , the hordes ma keep try breach the walls while others "climb" the walls

Whats the point of walls then????

Hurika

jaburns wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

At the top of the list of ultimates that do not need a buff in any way, is leap.

He's not asking for a buff. He's saying that ZoS screwed up the mechanic of Dragon Leap when they "fixed it". Dragon Leap, quite literally, will not function if someone is up a few steps higher than you. Its linear mechanic is broken.

Imagine if you were a NB and you couldn't use Ambush on someone who was on a rock.

...or Templar who couldn't use Focused Charge on someone standing on a box. (I think this actually happens sometimes)

...or a Sorcerer who was trying to escape a keep wall- but you couldn't use Bolt Escape because the ground isn't even with the wall.

...or a Warden who couldn't sling their healing *** thingy at people. ( Ya'll disgusting!)

No, you're wrong. He is asking for a buff. He didn't make any mention of fixing a bug with Z axis related to dragon leap which I agree should be fixed if it exists. He asked for the "Reach" buff to apply to dragon leap since it did in the past but was changed. Asking for a buff to apply to an ability is the definition of asking for a buff. You brought up the Z axis bug, he is asking for a passive in the alliance skill lines to affect an ability. I personally don't care if the passive buffs the ability or not. But get your facts straight.

Luigi_Vampa

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

I think you should be able to leap onto keeps. It was fun and usually suicidal. Too many barriers to fun and dynamic gameplay.

I think it's so ridiculous how how ladders exist all over the place in this game, but we can't use them at keeps?

There are tactical strategies for keep capturing that exist beyond destroying doors and walls. Put ladders in. They would be suicidal if someone notices you climbing a ladder, but at least it would add more strategy into keep capture.

I agree. There should be multiple ways to take keeps. Small man squads stealthing into a keep with ladders, DKs leaping onto the walls to cause mayhem during a siege. Siege towers you can push towards walls and gap close across. Let us play around and innovate. Bring in dynamic gameplay.

I“DKs leaping in during siege causing mayham. “ Hmmmm I guarantee in 1 Week every keep taking group will consist of 25+ dks only just all jumping in instead of sieging. Players are usually stupid instead of keeping exploits a secret they overdo so much it ruins PvP. So=hell no!!

We used to be able to do it and it never lead to 25+ DKs leaping up walls so...

All classes should have something unique that makes you go "damn, I wish I could do that!"

idk

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

I think you should be able to leap onto keeps. It was fun and usually suicidal. Too many barriers to fun and dynamic gameplay.

I think it's so ridiculous how how ladders exist all over the place in this game, but we can't use them at keeps?

There are tactical strategies for keep capturing that exist beyond destroying doors and walls. Put ladders in. They would be suicidal if someone notices you climbing a ladder, but at least it would add more strategy into keep capture.

I agree. There should be multiple ways to take keeps. Small man squads stealthing into a keep with ladders, DKs leaping onto the walls to cause mayhem during a siege. Siege towers you can push towards walls and gap close across. Let us play around and innovate. Bring in dynamic gameplay.

I“DKs leaping in during siege causing mayham. “ Hmmmm I guarantee in 1 Week every keep taking group will consist of 25+ dks only just all jumping in instead of sieging. Players are usually stupid instead of keeping exploits a secret they overdo so much it ruins PvP. So=hell no!!

We used to be able to do it and it never lead to 25+ DKs leaping up walls so...

All classes should have something unique that makes you go "damn, I wish I could do that!"

But that cool unique aspect should not be leaping upon keep walls.

Gan Xing

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Avnr wrote: »

we back to boxed pvp , you must breach the wall while in group - boxed.

gapcloser pvp was so fun and interesting , the hordes ma keep try breach the walls while others "climb" the walls

Whats the point of walls then????

I have a suggestion:
limited number of ladders, and on each ladder, a limited number of players climbing it. Oh, and it takes a while to climb up. If someone pours oils on you, you can't heal cause you are busy climbing the ladder. Ladder has half hit points of ram

Siege towers are imflammable. If hit by a fire siege, has a 20% chance to catch fire, causing fire damage to all occupants inside the tower. It has a lot of health tho.

edit: this way the siege has a counter, but can still be useful to the fight.

dmar613

I dont want to be able to leap into keeps again. even though it was fun, it creates issues. What i do want is to be able to leap off my keep walls, outposts and towers again.

For that I need the range to be increased to how it was prior with reach passive. Eso had already redesigned keep layout to prevent leaping into, so why not allow the range back.

Also tbh you can still get into some keeps with chains, however the trick is someone one the other faction has to have a pet gg.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I am all for people being able to leap into keeps. I am not however for people being able to pull people from keeps. If you want to be able to leap in and 1vX a castle, go nuts. I just dont think you should be able to pull pugs to their death from the safety of the walls. Just my 2 cents.

Also, Dragon leap doesnt need a buff...

Xvorg

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

I think you should be able to leap onto keeps. It was fun and usually suicidal. Too many barriers to fun and dynamic gameplay.

I think it's so ridiculous how how ladders exist all over the place in this game, but we can't use them at keeps?

There are tactical strategies for keep capturing that exist beyond destroying doors and walls. Put ladders in. They would be suicidal if someone notices you climbing a ladder, but at least it would add more strategy into keep capture.

I agree. There should be multiple ways to take keeps. Small man squads stealthing into a keep with ladders, DKs leaping onto the walls to cause mayhem during a siege. Siege towers you can push towards walls and gap close across. Let us play around and innovate. Bring in dynamic gameplay.

I like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQh2C1VRYBM

Xvorg

dmar613 wrote: »

I miss my old leaps. Used to be able to leap onto and off keep walls, resource towers from third story, they never saw it coming lol. Loved reflecting meteors and following with leap.

Now, I cant leap off of a ; wall, resource tower, stairs, some rocks and terrain were i have elevation advantage. man the carnage i used to cause lol i wish i could fix my old xbox to pull clips from.

edit. funny thing is i made a ticket about this a couple days ago and they never even replied back

You missed the times of Spiderknights, when leap was combined with chains

Betsararie

Please no.

Dragon leap is such a skill-less, sad ability.

Savos_Saren

Blanco wrote: »

Please no.

Dragon leap is such a skill-less, sad ability.

Aren't most ultimates "skill-less"? That's why they're not considered a skill. You just pop them at a convenient time when it's beneficial for your or your group.

For a DK who relies on the use of their ultimate to return resources- I'd say that, if anything, the use of Dragon Leap relies on timing and execution.