Current state of Dual Wield Magsorcs

Chelister

I have been out of ESO for a month and slowly starting to come back

What do people think about DW MagSorc given the current state of the game? I wanted to try it out for some time, but just wasnt sure

What sets are the best for Dual Wield Magsorc?

EDIT:
Just to clarify
I am planning to try DW on front bar and preferably resto on back bar
And again, this is for PVP

SoLooney

dw mag sorcs are a thing?

cory8325

I run DW on my magsorc. I run undaunted infiltrator, spider cultist and ilambris on a heavy attack build. Self buffed at 31k dps

Tyrobag

cory8325 wrote: »

I run DW on my magsorc. I run undaunted infiltrator, spider cultist and ilambris on a heavy attack build. Self buffed at 31k dps

Judging by the spider cultist, I assume you mean DW on backbar? It sounds like OP wants DW as main.

Due to sorcs not having a class spammable, as well as the recent resource nerf making heavy attacks necessary, DW sorcs are generally not considered a thing. Not to say you shouldn't try if you want to. It might be possible with a staff on the back bar, but you'd have to use all dots (and maybe pets?). If you did use pets, then Necropotance + IA, Moondacer, or Architect + Grothdar, Illabris, Skoria, or maybe even Maw (getting a buff with the next patch) would be good sets to try out.

cory8325

Yep your correct. DW on back and swap to maelstrom front

Biro123

The burst can be a scary thing in PvP.. But easy to avoid.

Vaoh

DW Sorcs stopped being good as soon as they had their inherent Weapon/Spell Damage reduced and Destruction Staves gained 8% Single Target or AoE Damage done.

You can still run it, but you'd be doing this for the sake of it, not to create some great setup.

An Overload Sorc is the only build where DW would truly be better than a staff.

CyrusArya

Vaoh wrote: »

You can still run it, but you'd be doing this for the sake of it, not to create some great setup.

An Overload Sorc is the only build where DW would truly be better than a staff.

I disagree, as far as PvP goes. Dual Wield gives you a few advantages over staff that are still relevant. The obvious one is that the extra set piece allows for builds which are not possible with a staff. Secondly, while the 5% damage buff is not as high as the staffs 8%, it will buff both your single target and AoE damage. So if you want the strongest meteors while maintaining competetive single target burst, dual wield is viable. Thirdly, everyone knows sorc has competetive bars. By taking the spammable out the equation, you open up some options for skill layout. Played and built right, a dual wield sorc will still hit the curse/frags/fury combo harder than with a staff.

The final aspect is simply preference in playstyle. You can crunch numbers and theorycraft all day, but ultimately how a build feels and is utilized by a given player will determine its effectiveness and power more than anything. One of the best sorcs I know still swear by dual wield sorc (non overload), and I know him well enough to know he wouldn't do so on a whin

Beardimus

I always run DW. Of im honnest its taken nerf after nerf, it's not what it was. Even indirectly like needing a staff for resource mgmt and the extra damage inferno gets etc.

There are some gains as above , and I just prefer it - mainly to see what damn bar im on with the lag and style wise prefer the idea of a battle mage over a wizard with wands.

So yeah it works if you make it, but you are hampering yourself in many ways if you don't adapt.

PlautisCarvain

Tried it and it's bad

Vaoh

CyrusArya wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

You can still run it, but you'd be doing this for the sake of it, not to create some great setup.

An Overload Sorc is the only build where DW would truly be better than a staff.

I disagree, as far as PvP goes. Dual Wield gives you a few advantages over staff that are still relevant. The obvious one is that the extra set piece allows for builds which are not possible with a staff. Secondly, while the 5% damage buff is not as high as the staffs 8%, it will buff both your single target and AoE damage. So if you want the strongest meteors while maintaining competetive single target burst, dual wield is viable. Thirdly, everyone knows sorc has competetive bars. By taking the spammable out the equation, you open up some options for skill layout. Played and built right, a dual wield sorc will still hit the curse/frags/fury combo harder than with a staff.

The final aspect is simply preference in playstyle. You can crunch numbers and theorycraft all day, but ultimately how a build feels and is utilized by a given player will determine its effectiveness and power more than anything. One of the best sorcs I know still swear by dual wield sorc (non overload), and I know him well enough to know he wouldn't do so on a whin

It's definitely arguable, and I 100% agree with you on the part I bolded there. For the longest time (PS4 launch until midway through One Tamriel) I ran a DW Magicka Sorc in PvP as a solo player, and was very successful. It was amazing, and I didn't care about the buff to staves when it happened either because I believed Dual Wield was legitimately better. I stopped PvPing for the most part midway though One Tamriel, and when I did PvP it was on my Negate Sorc tank in what was usually an 8-12-man organized group.

With all of that said, as a whole, there isn't really any great 2-piece sets to run on Magicka Sorc in particular besides Pirate Skeleton that would make optimal use of the 5/5/2 setup allowed with Dual Wield. I will always run DW on my Mag Sorc if I PvP (and I never slot Overload either) but for basically everyone else, staves are better. It takes a certain playstyle to make the most out of a DW Mag Sorc.

Ankael07

ded

Araviel2

DW sorcs are like bumblebees, they are really to fat for flight, but they don't know that or they don't give a sh*t

Sanguis_Tiberius

In terms of next patch, the pressure and damage a stave user can achieve with infused+oblivion (maybe plus torugs too, we'll see after patch drops) will be a million times stronger than anything a DW user can do.
Simple Breakdown:
DW users get higher base damage. For sorcs at least, rotation requires a set up into a single massive damage pop. If that doesn't kill your target then there's no way too pressure DPS your target.
Stave users lose a little base damage, but gain other passives and include a high damage ult and consistent pressure on target.
Currently, *in my opinion and many others* staves are far better than DW for the foreseeable patches. The bonuses from staves heavily outweigh anything DW offers.

CyrusArya

Vaoh wrote: »

With all of that said, as a whole, there isn't really any great 2-piece sets to run on Magicka Sorc in particular besides Pirate Skeleton that would make optimal use of the 5/5/2 setup allowed with Dual Wield. I will always run DW on my Mag Sorc if I PvP (and I never slot Overload either) but for basically everyone else, staves are better. It takes a certain playstyle to make the most out of a DW Mag Sorc.

Well, pirate is indeed very powerful. But you also have slimecraw which is kind of a big deal, let alone when it's gonna give crit. Slimecraw+Dual Wield > Inferno staff and no monster set.

Lexxypwns

DW sorc is 100% viable in pvp. It's weaknesses are poor scaling of its main defensive mechanic, lack of pressure dps, and highly telegraphed burst.

In exchange you can easily run amber+spinners+slime and get far more burst than a destro sorc could while also likely having a larger magika pool as well.

Also, sustain is easier on DW sorc since you have no spammable and fill your rotation with entropy casts to empower your burst.

templesus

DW is viable no question; however it has taken nerf after nerf from the proxy/Inevitable nerf, trapping webs nerf, dual wield nerf, inferno staff buff, etc. The only DW mag sorcs who really remain are those who refuse to run destro. I stopped playing mag sorc as their is no way in hell I will touch destro staff on my sorc and dual wield is severely gimped not to mention it is not even my main.

BigES

They're bad for several reasons.

Competent Magicka Sorcs understand that Master-At-Arms, Staff Expert, and Elemental Expert along with CP front-loading is just too powerful. Heavy attack frag weaves were already meta. Now they are just a necessity. Especially with the current sustain patch. And in Non-CP sustain alone rules it out.

That's not even mentioning that a proper light attack weave already left DW in the dust before they even nerfed it (several times).

I whined about duel wield sorcs dying (and diversity dying) when they made the destruction staff changes. No-one listens to poor BigES.

Lexxypwns

BigES wrote: »

They're bad for several reasons.

Competent Magicka Sorcs understand that Master-At-Arms, Staff Expert, and Elemental Expert along with CP front-loading is just too powerful. Heavy attack frag weaves were already meta. Now they are just a necessity. Especially with the current sustain patch. And in Non-CP sustain alone rules it out.

That's not even mentioning that a proper light attack weave already left DW in the dust before they even nerfed it (several times).

I whined about duel wield sorcs dying (and diversity dying) when they made the destruction staff changes. No-one listens to poor BigES.

You can absolutely still play mag sorc with dw in PVP. Sustain issues are non-existent relative to destro.

Also, DW sorc and light armor Magden are the only classes that can properly take advantage of the excellent scaling of bastion.

You have flat out larger shields, better sustain, 5-5-2 and those instant potatoe nukes. You lose pressure, weaving(and proc'ing poisons/glyphs at range), and destro ulti.

Destro is without question much stronger though. I would never touch DW in no cp either

Beardimus

Hi @Lexxypwns do you mean no CP / BG in that last line?

Lexxypwns

Beardimus wrote: »

Hi @Lexxypwns do you mean no CP / BG in that last line?

Yep, fixed it. Basically destro is too necessary in no CP since it offers both free pressure and burst.

Vaoh

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Hi @Lexxypwns do you mean no CP / BG in that last line?

Yep, fixed it. Basically destro is too necessary in no CP since it offers both free pressure and burst.

I find it very weak against me in no CP tbh.

However, this could be because I am not a Vampire, and take on average 25% less damage from fire damage than others.

Lexxypwns

Vaoh wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Hi @Lexxypwns do you mean no CP / BG in that last line?

Yep, fixed it. Basically destro is too necessary in no CP since it offers both free pressure and burst.

I find it very weak against me in no CP tbh.

However, this could be because I am not a Vampire, and take on average 25% less damage from fire damage than others.

It's relative. Mag sorc isn't as strong as people portray. Once we establish that, when looking at no-CP, excepting play style preferences, destro is so far and away superior that dw barely merits consideration for traditional style builds.

The reason for this is the loss of elfborn, some native crit, reduced resource pools, and no use of bastion to supplement your shields.

Reverb

Since the Morrowind changes, I prefer s+b on my back bar in pvp. Pve is dual destro or destro/resto.

When I see a magsorc with dw in pve, I assume they either don't keep up with changes, or don't care enough to change their gear. I can't imagine anyone who both knows and cares, and has made a decision to stick with dw.

Vaoh

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Hi @Lexxypwns do you mean no CP / BG in that last line?

Yep, fixed it. Basically destro is too necessary in no CP since it offers both free pressure and burst.

I find it very weak against me in no CP tbh.

However, this could be because I am not a Vampire, and take on average 25% less damage from fire damage than others.

It's relative. Mag sorc isn't as strong as people portray. Once we establish that, when looking at no-CP, excepting play style preferences, destro is so far and away superior that dw barely merits consideration for traditional style builds.

The reason for this is the loss of elfborn, some native crit, reduced resource pools, and no use of bastion to supplement your shields.

Careful what you say! lol @Lexxypwns

You can trigger the entire Forums with a sentence like that. There are people on here who live to degrade the "OP", flawless, unstoppable Sorcs....

Lexxypwns

Vaoh wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Hi @Lexxypwns do you mean no CP / BG in that last line?

Yep, fixed it. Basically destro is too necessary in no CP since it offers both free pressure and burst.

I find it very weak against me in no CP tbh.

However, this could be because I am not a Vampire, and take on average 25% less damage from fire damage than others.

It's relative. Mag sorc isn't as strong as people portray. Once we establish that, when looking at no-CP, excepting play style preferences, destro is so far and away superior that dw barely merits consideration for traditional style builds.

The reason for this is the loss of elfborn, some native crit, reduced resource pools, and no use of bastion to supplement your shields.

Careful what you say! lol @Lexxypwns

You can trigger the entire Forums with a sentence like that. There are people on here who live to degrade the "OP", flawless, unstoppable Sorcs....

I've yet to fight a single scary sorc since morrowind dropped. There's still good sorcs out there, I've lost to plenty of them, but if you've spent enough time playing sorc to know its limitations then you can always have a resonable chance to win the fight.

I mean, literally if you block frags you shut down 95% of sorcs

I believe that's true against all "OP" specs this patch, excepting stacked damage prof sets in no CP.

Jurand80

frags dont matter anymore. next patch you'll be spamming light attacks with torugs and oblivion thinking how to heal faster. from l2proc we're entering the era of l2heal.

patch 3.1 = RIP DW msorc