Heavy Armor Magicka - Sustain

Cyrediath

Hi. I'm working on my heavy armor magicka DK and i have some questions and i want to hear your ideas about things related to sustain.
I have 630cp using 5 piece black rose + 5 piece desert rose + 2 pieces grothdarr. 1 cost reduction glyph. I can only get magicka from my battle roar and potions becayse i am using 1h/s build so heavy attacks dont give mr magicka. Do you havr any suggestions about how to sustain magicka in this build? I mean I am wearing 2 sustain sets and 1 reduction glyph already. if i go full sustain on my glyphs and mundus i end up getting around 1.300 spell damage.

Do you think constitution should be buffed slightly or black rose maybe? Because if I am not mistaken with 7 pieces heavy with black rose you are grtting around 75 magicka/stamina per second extra. does that really worth whilr other sets giving you 300 mag/stamina recovery or %8 cost reduction. 75 mag/stamina per secomd really worths it? it looks like a jokr and black rose is not that easy set to get like seducer.

Btw whereas stamina characters having muuuch better time sustaining their resources i have lvl capped few stamina characters too.

Any ideas and suggestions please? Thanks.

MarzAttakz

I think the bigger question is why do we not have 1h/whatever magicka based weapon skill lines?

If that's a serious issue then why not make all weapons return both stamina+magicka on heavy attacks to equal the playing field, adjust the weapon skill line resource return passives to be inline with each other.

I'm sorry I can't comment on your specific question but have run into similar issue running DW + 1H/S on my MagPlar (granted we do have some class skills to make it easier than using only potions + Battle Roar).

Saint314Louis1985

if you can live without grothdar, maybe try engine guardian?

no expert here so take it for what its worth.

worsttankever

Elemental Drain for magicka steak.

Argonian for more resources back on potion.

IcyDeadPeople

Maybe however you are testing this, you aren't getting hit enough by enemy players? With that build you should be generating quite a lot of magicka from desert rose and Constitution when they gang up on you.

If they are killing you too fast, maybe you need to add shield or elusive mist, or swap grothdar for bloodspawn etc?

Even after the recent nerf, I feel like Constitution gives me very good magicka sustain, better than stacking recovery.

Biro123

All of your sustain is based on getting hit. Perhaps mixing that with some regent would be better?

Or is it possible to re-organise your skillbars to fit in a resto staff? The mag return from a restored heavy in heavy armour is really substantial. The odd light attack with it will also keep the ulti regent up too.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Cyrediath wrote: »

Hi. I'm working on my heavy armor magicka DK and i have some questions and i want to hear your ideas about things related to sustain.
I have 630cp using 5 piece black rose + 5 piece desert rose + 2 pieces grothdarr. 1 cost reduction glyph. I can only get magicka from my battle roar and potions becayse i am using 1h/s build so heavy attacks dont give mr magicka. Do you havr any suggestions about how to sustain magicka in this build? I mean I am wearing 2 sustain sets and 1 reduction glyph already. if i go full sustain on my glyphs and mundus i end up getting around 1.300 spell damage.

Do you think constitution should be buffed slightly or black rose maybe? Because if I am not mistaken with 7 pieces heavy with black rose you are grtting around 75 magicka/stamina per second extra. does that really worth whilr other sets giving you 300 mag/stamina recovery or %8 cost reduction. 75 mag/stamina per secomd really worths it? it looks like a jokr and black rose is not that easy set to get like seducer.

Btw whereas stamina characters having muuuch better time sustaining their resources i have lvl capped few stamina characters too.

Any ideas and suggestions please? Thanks.

Stamina has worse sustain then magic. With blocking and sprinting taking regen to zero and rolling cost increasing by 33% per roll. You are just used to stamina so you are better with sustain. More likely then not you are running med armor lower skill cost and higher recovery.

You would have the same problem with heavy armor of you had a stamina build.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

MarzAttakz wrote: »

I think the bigger question is why do we not have 1h/whatever magicka based weapon skill lines?

If that's a serious issue then why not make all weapons return both stamina+magicka on heavy attacks to equal the playing field, adjust the weapon skill line resource return passives to be inline with each other.

I'm sorry I can't comment on your specific question but have run into similar issue running DW + 1H/S on my MagPlar (granted we do have some class skills to make it easier than using only potions + Battle Roar).

I like the way it works now you don't have any good reason beyond wanting the extra set bonus. Running stamina weapons on a magic build is a gain of power at the cost of sustain that makes sense. With fire staff increasing single target damage, lightning staff increasing AoE damage and ice staff has block cost reductions with blocking more damage you can rub your magic staffs. You want the extra set slot so you take the other weapons.

technohic

Having a staff on a magicka melee class feels clunky with the animations. Weaving just feels off; and the extra time to charge a heavy is kind of dumb in melee range.

If it's a matter of not wanting a 2 piece magic set, just make a 2 handed magicka melee weapon that loses the range but returns magicka and has pasives that fit.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

technohic wrote: »

Having a staff on a magicka melee class feels clunky with the animations. Weaving just feels off; and the extra time to charge a heavy is kind of dumb in melee range.

If it's a matter of not wanting a 2 piece magic set, just make a 2 handed magicka melee weapon that loses the range but returns magicka and has pasives that fit.

I have a melee mage and I use a fire and ice staff on that Templar don't need the healing staff cause well Restoring Light. It doesn't feel weird to me. I can fight upclose and if they run I can fight for a far.

Savos_Saren

OP,

Three of my main characters are mDK DPS tanks for PVP. (They all have different builds)

For an mDK using Black Rose and Desert Rose- you shouldn't be having too many issues with sustain... unless you're being more proactive instead of reactive in your fighting style. Both Black Rose and Desert Rose require you to be hit. Therefore, your playstyle should be more of a "lock down and burn" (crowd control) tank. Make sure you're not aggressively spamming abilities like Lava Whip, Stonefist, or Firey Breath (which will burn through your magicka).

Here's my suggestion:

1.) Become a vamp. 10% magicka and stamina regen + damage mitigation.

2.) Use the Atronauch as your mundus.

3.) Have SnB as your front bar and a Destro Staff as your back bar (lighting staff works for my builds since it's almost a guaranteed heavy attack and it increases your AoE damage... so Eruption or Wall of Elements is buffed)

4.) Use a 5/1/1 set up if you have Undaunted 7 or 9. You'll get more resources and having one piece of each armor type gives you slightly better abilities.

5.) Use Drain Magicka poisons on your SnB bar for more resources. (use unresistable damage glyph on your destro bar).

6.) Use one spell power glyph on your jewelry and one magicka regen enchant. If you feel like you've got enough regen by this point- you can slot another spell power enchant on your third piece of jewelry.

7.) Use a rotation that will create more resource gain & crowd control for your build. IE:

When enemies begin to crowd your team... you'll be the one who locks them down so your allies can burn them. Use Volatile Armor, Choking Talons, Draw Essence, and then two pops of Flame Lash. As you know, using Flame Lash on an enemy who is CCed by your Talons will set them off balance, and give you Power Lash... which in turn saves your resources (because it's free), does more damage, and returns health!

Cyrediath

Well thanks for the advices but i want to talk about something.

With black rose, constitituon increases from 108 to 145 if i remember correctly. so even if i give up my 5.1.1 and go full heavy i get extra 259 magicka/stamina if i get hit in perfect conditions every 4 second. that equals 129 magicka and stamima recovery im perfect conditions with 7 heavy. But there are other sets give you 300 stamina/magicka recovery or %8 magicka reduction or %5 magicka + stamina reduction.

Isnt black rose is way tooooooo week for a set that can be bought with telvar, not a zone set nor craftable. These numbers for if i go 7 pieces heavy. if i go 5 h 1m 1l i will get less benefit. it will be 92.5 recovery.

I mean i love the idea behind this set but mathematically its so weak that i think any set in game will perform better...

And yea i played Heavy armor stamina build too. Sustaining stamina is very easy compered to magicka.

AverageJo3Gam3r

You can also run witchmothers and use the atronach stone

Cyrediath

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

You can also run witchmothers and use the atronach stone

i have to sacrifice 4k stamina + 170 spell damage for that. what do you think about black rose being useless with the given numbers?

Minno

Cyrediath wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

You can also run witchmothers and use the atronach stone

i have to sacrifice 4k stamina + 170 spell damage for that. what do you think about black rose being useless with the given numbers?

What about Shackle breaker + tristat enchants on large pieces?

Cyrediath

Minno wrote: »

Cyrediath wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

You can also run witchmothers and use the atronach stone

i have to sacrifice 4k stamina + 170 spell damage for that. what do you think about black rose being useless with the given numbers?

What about Shackle breaker + tristat enchants on large pieces?

that would be okay but i really like black rose. the idea of the set. but when i do the math any set would perform better compared to black rose. im wearing 5 blavkrose 5 desert rose 2 grothdarr all heavy all yellow even the jewelries and i cant sustain my magicka fighting againsts 2-3 enemies even if i use my magicka wisely. at this point i think there is a problem not related to me but class or sets.

i have heavy stamina characters which is not sustain build but sustains much better compared to magicka. i would love to see someone played both heavy magicka and stamina at cp630 and saying magicka sustain is better. in my experience they are not even comperable.

Biro123

Cyrediath wrote: »

Well thanks for the advices but i want to talk about something.

With black rose, constitituon increases from 108 to 145 if i remember correctly. so even if i give up my 5.1.1 and go full heavy i get extra 259 magicka/stamina if i get hit in perfect conditions every 4 second. that equals 129 magicka and stamima recovery im perfect conditions with 7 heavy. But there are other sets give you 300 stamina/magicka recovery or %8 magicka reduction or %5 magicka + stamina reduction.

Isnt black rose is way tooooooo week for a set that can be bought with telvar, not a zone set nor craftable. These numbers for if i go 7 pieces heavy. if i go 5 h 1m 1l i will get less benefit. it will be 92.5 recovery.

I mean i love the idea behind this set but mathematically its so weak that i think any set in game will perform better...

And yea i played Heavy armor stamina build too. Sustaining stamina is very easy compered to magicka.

I totally agree. To be anywhere near good enough for a sustain set, it has to be comparable to other sets.. So to my mind, we have a set that gives a guaranteed 250 mag/stam every 2 seconds (boosted by passives etc).

So for blackrose to be worthwhile, it has to give a MINIMUM boost of 500 mag and stam every 4 seconds. Even then (as its not boosted by passives), it is still behind Amberplasm. But then there are light armour passives to boost mag recov, and there are base constitution recov too to balance in to that..

But it should then probably be more because you get nothing when not attacked (but then has to be balanced with being able to recover it while blocking)..

One option is for BlackRose to return a set amount like desert rose does - and not be tied to constitution - then they can be balanced independently. Alternatively, it would have to have its 5-piece bonus boosted massively to be competitive (but then if they change const again, BR becomes unbalanced again..)

technohic

Cyrediath wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Cyrediath wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

You can also run witchmothers and use the atronach stone

i have to sacrifice 4k stamina + 170 spell damage for that. what do you think about black rose being useless with the given numbers?

What about Shackle breaker + tristat enchants on large pieces?

that would be okay but i really like black rose. the idea of the set. but when i do the math any set would perform better compared to black rose. im wearing 5 blavkrose 5 desert rose 2 grothdarr all heavy all yellow even the jewelries and i cant sustain my magicka fighting againsts 2-3 enemies even if i use my magicka wisely. at this point i think there is a problem not related to me but class or sets.

i have heavy stamina characters which is not sustain build but sustains much better compared to magicka. i would love to see someone played both heavy magicka and stamina at cp630 and saying magicka sustain is better. in my experience they are not even comperable.

I've done both but did not rely on constitution for either. Left it as a nice bonus.

For Magicka; it needed an ability with magicka steal, preferred the destroy version even over restoring aura as a Templar due to the front loaded cost making it take a while to pay off. Then I also found I needed the focus that returned magicka as well.

This was all pre Morrowind but I used a Nord then. I wouldn't now. I'd run high elf personally

Racial concerns changed for stam for me as well after Morrowind but I don't have any steal resources to use unless I get poisons

Cyrediath

I tried runnin posion on my weapons but it doesnt proc that much we are talking about heavy armor sustain here especially black rose underperforming.

Cyrediath

Right now running 5 bkackrose 5 desert rose all 2 grothdar all yellow eve. jewelries and i have 1 cost reduction on my neck. im dunmer and im a vampire. still having magicka issues if im not fighting against big group of people. that time i get barely enough magicka. i rrally lpve my black rose do you think magicka susgain will change a lot if i start using seducer instead of black rose?

Waffennacht

Seducer + tri stat almost identical to shackle breaker + witch mother on heavy.

I prefer shackle over seducer

ak_pvp

Bloodspawn is probably the best regen tool for DKs because battle roar.

Cyrediath

ak_pvp wrote: »

Bloodspawn is probably the best regen tool for DKs because battle roar.

i feel lile its not worth it. i mean it has a cooldown + stamina recovery is not very usefull for mag dk. i feel like if ypu are doing aoe build grothdarr or if you need burst skoria will be better.

ans esoecially for dks i always had resource management issues with magicka dk both light and heavy on pvp. i guess skills cost a lot maybe thats why. aoe and buffs are like 4k.

leepalmer95

Go bloodspawn.

More mitigation which means your using less expensive heals because your taking less damage.

Plus more ult gen = more sustain and if your not in a massive zerg bloodspawn will proc a lot from the dmg you'll take.

The stam recovery will be useful because your not going to be able to permablock. It'll give you stam faster and is quite useful when you mistform as well.

Honestly if i was going to heavy mag dk i'd 100% ise seducer. The cost reduction is needed. Black rose is not really a 'sustain' set.

aagobbo

Today i'm using desert rose + shacklebreak + grothdarr. I'm not a pro PvP player, but i'm having fun with it. I wanna try rattlecage instead of shackle, and wanna try the bloodspawn monster set. I'm not too concerned about stam, since I don't use it a lot, my backbar is SnB just to use 2 5/5 sets for sustain.