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The outcome of the Three-Banner War and the Lore gap with the fourth era.

ChibchanLawyer
What was the actual outcome of the Three-Banner War and why is there no reference of it in the later eras? I mean, I know that there are no references because Oblivion and Skyrim, which take place in the later eras, came out years before this plot was introduced in ESO, and that the campaigns are designed so that whatever Alliance you'd choose with your character would make you their hero and have an edge on the other two.

But if you were loremasters, what do you think ended the Three-Banner War, and how would you explain its lack of knowledge down the eras? Just curious to see what you guys might come up with.
  • Dustfinger81
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    The Pact, one of the strongest military alliances in Tamriel's history, is really only held together by common enemies. I can see it quickly dissolving shorlty after cessation of hostilities seems in effect.
  • AtraisMachina
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    I bombed them.
  • Vrienda
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    My personal head canon is that Tiber Septim erased all evidence of the nations of Tamriel uniting under three banners to try and take the ruby throne because he thought others might try to revive the Covenant, Dominion and Pact and threaten his empire. However as the second dominion was more recent and he himself had to deal with them he wasn't able to cover them up like he did with the original.

    Tiber Septim is just one big, fat, propaganda machine who managed to cover up the past and con the people of Tamriel into thinking he was capable of becoming a god.
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  • LMar
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    Briefly adding:

    Agreed that war in Cyro slowly fizzles out as there is no desired outcome

    But

    I bet the Colovian powers start to slowly grow and eventually help the region forget the war. And indeed it was from Colovia that the petty warlords rise up eventually and Tiber comes in the picture
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  • ArchMikem
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    The fact that the Three Banners War has absolutely no mention in 4th Era Lore is simple. ESO was developed after Skyrim, and the War was made up to be a part of the ESO story. And just to ease the discrepancy, a LOT of stuff can happen in the 900 years between 2E 5-whatever year this is, and 4E 201. Specifically, historical events can be downplayed, and eventually forgotten. Yeah it'd take a mighty big amount of ignorance to forget something like a Tamriel wide War, however think of the things that happen later. The Oblivion Crisis, The Great War. Much more devastating events.

    I'm going to assume that eventually, the outcome of this War will only be the "liberation" of the Empire. The goals of the three banners were to make sure the Imperial City wasn't completely taken by the Daedra, and I guess they were making statements about taking the Ruby Throne for themselves probably cause they assumed the Imperials were utterly gone. However it is mentioned that the entire Legion was recalled back to Cyrodiil to retake the city, and that one Officer guy holding out within the walls calls you a "Provincial Militia" coming to the Empire's aid.
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  • notimetocare
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    Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
    ESO was made after all the other games. Cant say that the Alliances would be in the other games lol.
    ESO filled a lore void, what content from ESO gets mentioned in a 6th TES game is to be seen
  • Tyrobag
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    Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
    ESO was made after all the other games. Cant say that the Alliances would be in the other games lol.
    ESO filled a lore void, what content from ESO gets mentioned in a 6th TES game is to be seen

    The egg, chickens aren't the only species that lays eggs.

    Also TES VI should definitely not make any mention of eso.
  • Tyrobag
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    Tyrobag wrote: »
    Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
    ESO was made after all the other games. Cant say that the Alliances would be in the other games lol.
    ESO filled a lore void, what content from ESO gets mentioned in a 6th TES game is to be seen

    The egg, chickens aren't the only species that lays eggs.

    Also TES VI should definitely not make any mention of eso.

    TES 6 will likely include some reference to events of ESO. ESO is canon. Materials written by the ZOS devs (books) will probably end up on the shelves of some dusty room in the next TES game.

    Its also canon that there are little to no records of this period of time. They don't have to make any mention of eso, and I don't think they should. Keep them separate.
  • lordrichter
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    Tyrobag wrote: »
    Tyrobag wrote: »
    Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
    ESO was made after all the other games. Cant say that the Alliances would be in the other games lol.
    ESO filled a lore void, what content from ESO gets mentioned in a 6th TES game is to be seen

    The egg, chickens aren't the only species that lays eggs.

    Also TES VI should definitely not make any mention of eso.

    TES 6 will likely include some reference to events of ESO. ESO is canon. Materials written by the ZOS devs (books) will probably end up on the shelves of some dusty room in the next TES game.

    Its also canon that there are little to no records of this period of time. They don't have to make any mention of eso, and I don't think they should. Keep them separate.

    I doubt they will. Many ESO fans will want this game to at least be mentioned by the next TES title, and with the wealth of content available from ZOS, there is no reason to not have a mention.
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  • ascottk
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    Also there's the concept of Dragon Break:

    elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Break

    "A Dragon Break, sometimes referred to as an un-time, is a temporal phenomenon that involves a splitting of the natural timeline which results in branching parallel realities where the same events occur differently, or not at all. This results in a return to the non-linear timeline of the Dawn Era. At the end of a Dragon Break, the timeline reconnects making all possibilities and outcomes truth, though contradictory to each other. The "Dragon" that is mentioned is in reference towards Akatosh, the Dragon God of Time."
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  • notimetocare
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    ascottk wrote: »
    Also there's the concept of Dragon Break:

    elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Break

    "A Dragon Break, sometimes referred to as an un-time, is a temporal phenomenon that involves a splitting of the natural timeline which results in branching parallel realities where the same events occur differently, or not at all. This results in a return to the non-linear timeline of the Dawn Era. At the end of a Dragon Break, the timeline reconnects making all possibilities and outcomes truth, though contradictory to each other. The "Dragon" that is mentioned is in reference towards Akatosh, the Dragon God of Time."

    Dragon break theory needs to die. ESO is canon
  • notimetocare
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    Tyrobag wrote: »
    Tyrobag wrote: »
    Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
    ESO was made after all the other games. Cant say that the Alliances would be in the other games lol.
    ESO filled a lore void, what content from ESO gets mentioned in a 6th TES game is to be seen

    The egg, chickens aren't the only species that lays eggs.

    Also TES VI should definitely not make any mention of eso.

    TES 6 will likely include some reference to events of ESO. ESO is canon. Materials written by the ZOS devs (books) will probably end up on the shelves of some dusty room in the next TES game.

    Its also canon that there are little to no records of this period of time. They don't have to make any mention of eso, and I don't think they should. Keep them separate.

    That is exactly why the time period was used. Absence of lore doesn't mean absence should stay that way
  • zaria
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    Tyrobag wrote: »
    Tyrobag wrote: »
    Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
    ESO was made after all the other games. Cant say that the Alliances would be in the other games lol.
    ESO filled a lore void, what content from ESO gets mentioned in a 6th TES game is to be seen

    The egg, chickens aren't the only species that lays eggs.

    Also TES VI should definitely not make any mention of eso.

    TES 6 will likely include some reference to events of ESO. ESO is canon. Materials written by the ZOS devs (books) will probably end up on the shelves of some dusty room in the next TES game.

    Its also canon that there are little to no records of this period of time. They don't have to make any mention of eso, and I don't think they should. Keep them separate.

    That is exactly why the time period was used. Absence of lore doesn't mean absence should stay that way
    Lots of long an messy wars who had no lasting impact, in fact long wars often end with an draw as none of the parts is able to overrun each others.
    As other say the alliances are pretty shaky and mostly held up because the threat from the other alliances.
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  • starkerealm
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    The Aldmeri Dominion is probably going to stay together the longest.

    Correct, though not exactly for the reasons you're thinking. The Aldmeri Dominion is the formal name for the Somerset Isle's government. In the strictest sense, it survives into the 4th era, though the alliance they formed with the Bosmer and Khajiit only lasted into the 7th century 2e (as I recall). Ironically, the Second Era Dominion is the one that actually existed in previous lore (the bosmer/altmer alliance got mentioned in one of the pocket guides, I think). My understanding is that the Khajiit split off somewhere down the line, maybe before 2e700, and the Bosmer/Altmer alliance holds on for a bit longer. But, I'm not sure when the alliance fully dissolves.

    EDIT: I'm talking about the Dominion existing in the Second Era, not the aggressive empire we see in Skyrim.
    Edited by starkerealm on August 3, 2017 4:08PM
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  • WhiteCoatSyndrome
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    My understanding is that the Khajiit split off somewhere down the line, maybe before 2e700, and the Bosmer/Altmer alliance holds on for a bit longer. But, I'm not sure when the alliance fully dissolves.

    *digs* The Second Aldmeri Dominion picked up the Maormer too.

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  • Korah_Eaglecry
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    The Aldmeri Dominion is probably going to stay together the longest.

    Correct, though not exactly for the reasons you're thinking. The Aldmeri Dominion is the formal name for the Somerset Isle's government. In the strictest sense, it survives into the 4th era, though the alliance they formed with the Bosmer and Khajiit only lasted into the 7th century 2e (as I recall). Ironically, the Second Era Dominion is the one that actually existed in previous lore (the bosmer/altmer alliance got mentioned in one of the pocket guides, I think). My understanding is that the Khajiit split off somewhere down the line, maybe before 2e700, and the Bosmer/Altmer alliance holds on for a bit longer. But, I'm not sure when the alliance fully dissolves.

    EDIT: I'm talking about the Dominion existing in the Second Era, not the aggressive empire we see in Skyrim.

    Actually it doesnt. The AD of 2E 896 was the 2nd Aldmeri Dominion. The AD of this time period, 2E 580- 2E 583, is the first. Now thats not to say that there isnt some overlap here as we dont know specifics. But we do know they were two separate entities. Whether the 2nd AD was born out of the ashes of the 1st, it was a completely unrelated government or it was some sort of transition or hand off of power. No one knows.

    As for what the government and its agents are known as. That would be the Thalmor. Its apparently just a general word used to describe any agents of the government. Regardless of what said government may be named.
    Edited by Korah_Eaglecry on August 4, 2017 7:01PM
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  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    The Aldmeri Dominion is probably going to stay together the longest.

    Correct, though not exactly for the reasons you're thinking. The Aldmeri Dominion is the formal name for the Somerset Isle's government. In the strictest sense, it survives into the 4th era, though the alliance they formed with the Bosmer and Khajiit only lasted into the 7th century 2e (as I recall). Ironically, the Second Era Dominion is the one that actually existed in previous lore (the bosmer/altmer alliance got mentioned in one of the pocket guides, I think). My understanding is that the Khajiit split off somewhere down the line, maybe before 2e700, and the Bosmer/Altmer alliance holds on for a bit longer. But, I'm not sure when the alliance fully dissolves.

    EDIT: I'm talking about the Dominion existing in the Second Era, not the aggressive empire we see in Skyrim.

    Actually it doesnt. The AD of 2E 896 was the 2nd Aldmeri Dominion. The AD of this time period, 2E 580- 2E 583, is the first. Now thats not to say that there isnt some overlap here as we dont know specifics. But we do know they were two separate entities. Whether the 2nd AD was born out of the ashes of the 1st, it was a completely unrelated government or it was some sort of transition or hand off of power. No one knows.

    As for what the government and its agents are known as. That would be the Thalmor. Its apparently just a general word used to describe any agents of the government. Regardless of what said government may be named.

    Yeah, I'm not talking about the Thalmor. Though, dig around in Skyrim, and via the Pocket Guide from Oblivion, and things get interesting with them, quickly.
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • Korah_Eaglecry
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    The Aldmeri Dominion is probably going to stay together the longest.

    Correct, though not exactly for the reasons you're thinking. The Aldmeri Dominion is the formal name for the Somerset Isle's government. In the strictest sense, it survives into the 4th era, though the alliance they formed with the Bosmer and Khajiit only lasted into the 7th century 2e (as I recall). Ironically, the Second Era Dominion is the one that actually existed in previous lore (the bosmer/altmer alliance got mentioned in one of the pocket guides, I think). My understanding is that the Khajiit split off somewhere down the line, maybe before 2e700, and the Bosmer/Altmer alliance holds on for a bit longer. But, I'm not sure when the alliance fully dissolves.

    EDIT: I'm talking about the Dominion existing in the Second Era, not the aggressive empire we see in Skyrim.

    Actually it doesnt. The AD of 2E 896 was the 2nd Aldmeri Dominion. The AD of this time period, 2E 580- 2E 583, is the first. Now thats not to say that there isnt some overlap here as we dont know specifics. But we do know they were two separate entities. Whether the 2nd AD was born out of the ashes of the 1st, it was a completely unrelated government or it was some sort of transition or hand off of power. No one knows.

    As for what the government and its agents are known as. That would be the Thalmor. Its apparently just a general word used to describe any agents of the government. Regardless of what said government may be named.

    Yeah, I'm not talking about the Thalmor. Though, dig around in Skyrim, and via the Pocket Guide from Oblivion, and things get interesting with them, quickly.

    It seemed as if you were confusing Thalmor with two distinct governments. 1st Aldmeri Dominion is not 2nd Aldmeri Dominion. This confuses a lot of people because the Altmer are not imaginitive and continuously reuse names.
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  • Dustfinger81
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    It seemed as if you were confusing Thalmor with two distinct governments. 1st Aldmeri Dominion is not 2nd Aldmeri Dominion. This confuses a lot of people because the Altmer are not imaginitive and continuously reuse names.

    I would assume it is akin to how japan had recycled the term "Samurai" to another fighting force that had nothing to do with the feudal system.

  • starkerealm
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    It seemed as if you were confusing Thalmor with two distinct governments. 1st Aldmeri Dominion is not 2nd Aldmeri Dominion. This confuses a lot of people because the Altmer are not imaginitive and continuously reuse names.

    I would assume it is akin to how japan had recycled the term "Samurai" to another fighting force that had nothing to do with the feudal system.

    Sorta, kinda, not really. The technical term would be that The Thalmor is an NGO, with close ties to the Dominion government. I'm sitting here trying to think up a good analogy, but this is a legitimately strange scenario. In ESO, the Thalmor have been granted certain administrative authorities by the Dominion government. Probably as a concession to secure their political support. This is how some of the interactions in Woodhearth make sense, by the way: The Eyes have inquisitorial authority over the Dominion, but the Thalmor aren't actually answerable to them.

    Documentation from Skyrim suggest that it's existed in one form for quite some time. And while it's not clear that there's a real continuity of organization, the name, and the group, have been a factor in Altmer politics for quite some time.

    This isn't true when you're looking at Skyrim. After the Oblivion Crisis, the Thalmor moved and consolidated their hold over the Dominion government. They were already working to consolidate power before the Crisis, which is why you'll hear barks about problems in the Sommerset Isles when you're walking around the Imperial City in Oblivion. But, once the Crisis hit, they were in a position to assume authority. So, what you see in Skyrim are the ruling party of the Dominion government.

    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • starkerealm
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    Actually it doesnt. The AD of 2E 896 was the 2nd Aldmeri Dominion. The AD of this time period, 2E 580- 2E 583, is the first. Now thats not to say that there isnt some overlap here as we dont know specifics. But we do know they were two separate entities. Whether the 2nd AD was born out of the ashes of the 1st, it was a completely unrelated government or it was some sort of transition or hand off of power. No one knows.

    My recollection is that the transition happened when the Bosmer left. It's detailed in the Pocket Guide, I think. But, I'll admit, I've been working all night, so I might be remembering that incorrectly.
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • Dustfinger81
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    Hmm. It may be possible that they are the same organization, having evolved with the times and political climate.
  • HugsAlotOfBosmer
    I guess this is how things will turn out, more or less (I can be 100% wrong on this of course, keep that in mind)
    Soon after the daedra is pushed out of cryodiil, the imperial would slowly gain control over the land again, push the diffrent faction more out.
    And once the skald king dies, the pact would see follow, taking all the races out of the war. Effectly giving all land they had to the imperials
    Same would go with the covenant more or less, When their high king die. The Covenant would not manage to stay up for long as they are not a very stable faction either, the fact he manage to unite high rock is a mircale almost. Though I do believe that the covenant would manage to fight on a bit longer without the high king.
    As for the Dominion, they would likley stay together until fully pushed out of cryodiill, and then once a peace treaty has been signed. The Dominion would peacefully break apart, as there is no longer need for it with the deadra threat gone and so with the war.
    Then there would be some time of peace, Until the time of Talos. Where he manages to conquer all of tamriel.
  • mb10
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    I dont think anybody wins the war but the Aldmeri Dominion reforms which of course suggests it broke up. They come close in the Great War and now in present day have a strong foot on the empire because of the White Gold Concordant. What happens after Skyrim is even more interesting.
    However, nothing is ever mentioned about the other two alliances.

  • starkerealm
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    mb10 wrote: »
    I dont think anybody wins the war but the Aldmeri Dominion reforms which of course suggests it broke up. They come close in the Great War and now in present day have a strong foot on the empire because of the White Gold Concordant. What happens after Skyrim is even more interesting.
    However, nothing is ever mentioned about the other two alliances.

    The rough story with the Dominion is that the Khajiit break off first, possibly within a few decades of ESO's timeframe. Then the Bosmer hold on for at least a couple centuries before splitting off. I want to say it's into the 2e700s, but not 100% certain.

    When the Bosmer break off, the Dominion redefines itself as the Second Aldmeri Dominion. That remains active, more or less, throughout the events of the single player games. There might actually be a gap here, also. Either way, by the Third Era, it's part of The Empire again.

    The schism into an independent force comes from the aftermath of the Oblivion crisis. It's happening as you play Oblivion, but because you're in Cyrodiil, you're not privy to what's happening out there. If you want the full timeline for the fourth era, you can check out The Rising Threat in Skryim. It's a four volume set.
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