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Thaumaturge/Master-At-Arms division ruins balance and needs to be removed ASAP

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Azikiel
Azikiel
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Stam warden's only upside is Subt. Assault, but it being direct damage means you lose out on thaumaturge's damage bonus unless you don't use any dots and try to stack direct damage. Problem is of course that direct damage abilities in this game do awful damage in comparison to DoT ones. I think both master at arms and thaumaturge should both be redesigned to be more interesting and not force people into all DoT or all direct damage builds as its not just bad for balance as we see here by the OPness of stam DKs with their unique DoTs that make them outclass everything, but it's also unfun as it ropes people into overly specific playstyle.
  • idk
    idk
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    I do not see this thread going far. It makes sense to have Master at Arms increasing single target damage, especially since we have had thaumaturge for so long.

    It really improves the number of areas and CP allotments we can make. It certainly does not hinder balance anymore than when we did not have it. The OP does not really explain the reasoning behind the remarks so no real reason for me to attempt to explain further.
  • Azikiel
    Azikiel
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    Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »
    I do not see this thread going far. It makes sense to have Master at Arms increasing single target damage, especially since we have had thaumaturge for so long.

    It really improves the number of areas and CP allotments we can make. It certainly does not hinder balance anymore than when we did not have it. The OP does not really explain the reasoning behind the remarks so no real reason for me to attempt to explain further.

    You're saying you think there is a PvE situation in which Master-At-Arms is useful in comparison to Thaumaturge? Please, describe a single set of abilities for a build in which this would be true and viable. My point is that you cannot, because DoTs are inherently stronger and thus thaumaturge/master-at-arms is not a balanced choice.
  • Wreuntzylla
    Wreuntzylla
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    I'm guessing you only have about 100CP? Because you can have it all, baby!

    Edited by Wreuntzylla on July 26, 2017 10:00PM
  • Azikiel
    Azikiel
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    Wreuntzylla wrote: »
    I'm guessing you only have about 100CP? Because you can have it all, baby!

    Obviously thats not optimal though...
  • vpy
    vpy
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    Azikiel wrote: »
    OPness of stam DKs

    Really mate ???
  • Trinity_Is_My_Name
    Trinity_Is_My_Name
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    Uh...no.
  • SirDopey
    SirDopey
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    Whaaaat?!?

    It's so balanced, if you want to spend all those points for the final 1% go for it but there's more than enough CPs available to invest in both according to your play-style.

    This one has missed the mark
    NA PC | AD
    xx Doc Holliday xx
  • SirDopey
    SirDopey
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    Azikiel wrote: »
    Wreuntzylla wrote: »
    I'm guessing you only have about 100CP? Because you can have it all, baby!

    Obviously thats not optimal though...

    Spending a stupid amount of points for the final 1% isn't optimal either. Go find Asarye's CP calculator if you want optimal.
    NA PC | AD
    xx Doc Holliday xx
  • Azikiel
    Azikiel
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    vpy wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    OPness of stam DKs

    Really mate ???

    Stam Dk is far and beyond any other stam spec in single target, and slightly better but fairly balanced in AoE with the other stam specs. IDK what your "Really mate ???" is to...
  • Azikiel
    Azikiel
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    SirDopey wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    Wreuntzylla wrote: »
    I'm guessing you only have about 100CP? Because you can have it all, baby!

    Obviously thats not optimal though...

    Spending a stupid amount of points for the final 1% isn't optimal either. Go find Asarye's CP calculator if you want optimal.

    Your comments are not about balance. This is about balance.
  • SirDopey
    SirDopey
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    Azikiel wrote: »
    SirDopey wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    Wreuntzylla wrote: »
    I'm guessing you only have about 100CP? Because you can have it all, baby!

    Obviously thats not optimal though...

    Spending a stupid amount of points for the final 1% isn't optimal either. Go find Asarye's CP calculator if you want optimal.

    Your comments are not about balance. This is about balance.

    LOL how is it not balanced? You have one for direct damage and one for damage over time? Remove one and not the other and it'll be unbalanced, remove them both and you're just nerfing damage.

    It's perfectly fine the way it is
    NA PC | AD
    xx Doc Holliday xx
  • apostate9
    apostate9
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    Azikiel wrote: »
    Wreuntzylla wrote: »
    I'm guessing you only have about 100CP? Because you can have it all, baby!

    Obviously thats not optimal though...

    Actually, that''s not obvious at all, due to this thing called "diminishing returns". You may want to learn a bit more about how this game works before you start wacky balance threads.
  • rotaugen454
    rotaugen454
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    This is why we can't have nice things!
    "Get off my lawn!"
  • Azikiel
    Azikiel
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    apostate9 wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    Wreuntzylla wrote: »
    I'm guessing you only have about 100CP? Because you can have it all, baby!

    Obviously thats not optimal though...

    Actually, that''s not obvious at all, due to this thing called "diminishing returns". You may want to learn a bit more about how this game works before you start wacky balance threads.

    You really can't come close to having it all, there aren't just 3 stars that are powerful there are at least 6 for stam users and only 200 points, so needing to spread those out between more stars isn't really fixed by diminishing returns.
  • Wreuntzylla
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    rotaugen454 wrote: »
    This is why we can't have nice things!

    This reply and "Can I have your gold?" got old years ago...
  • Azikiel
    Azikiel
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    SirDopey wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    SirDopey wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    Wreuntzylla wrote: »
    I'm guessing you only have about 100CP? Because you can have it all, baby!

    Obviously thats not optimal though...

    Spending a stupid amount of points for the final 1% isn't optimal either. Go find Asarye's CP calculator if you want optimal.

    Your comments are not about balance. This is about balance.

    LOL how is it not balanced? You have one for direct damage and one for damage over time? Remove one and not the other and it'll be unbalanced, remove them both and you're just nerfing damage.

    It's perfectly fine the way it is

    It's not balanced because it means only pure DoT builds are viable in PvE. LIke I said in the start, name a single optimal build that should optimally put point in master-at-arms. There isn't one.
  • SirDopey
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    Azikiel wrote: »
    apostate9 wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    Wreuntzylla wrote: »
    I'm guessing you only have about 100CP? Because you can have it all, baby!

    Obviously thats not optimal though...

    Actually, that''s not obvious at all, due to this thing called "diminishing returns". You may want to learn a bit more about how this game works before you start wacky balance threads.

    You really can't come close to having it all, there aren't just 3 stars that are powerful there are at least 6 for stam users and only 200 points, so needing to spread those out between more stars isn't really fixed by diminishing returns.

    Go get combat metrics. Study your rotation and damage sources so you know exactly what percentage of your damage is coming from light/heavy attacks, dots and direct damage. Go plug those numbers into a CP calculator and then you will have an optimal distribution.
    NA PC | AD
    xx Doc Holliday xx
  • Azikiel
    Azikiel
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    SirDopey wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    apostate9 wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    Wreuntzylla wrote: »
    I'm guessing you only have about 100CP? Because you can have it all, baby!

    Obviously thats not optimal though...

    Actually, that''s not obvious at all, due to this thing called "diminishing returns". You may want to learn a bit more about how this game works before you start wacky balance threads.

    You really can't come close to having it all, there aren't just 3 stars that are powerful there are at least 6 for stam users and only 200 points, so needing to spread those out between more stars isn't really fixed by diminishing returns.

    Go get combat metrics. Study your rotation and damage sources so you know exactly what percentage of your damage is coming from light/heavy attacks, dots and direct damage. Go plug those numbers into a CP calculator and then you will have an optimal distribution.

    I can tell you right now it would be 0 master at arms and it would say "stop playing stam-warden" because stam-warden is pointless. That's dumb.
  • Gallifreyy
    Gallifreyy
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    This just seems like a big L2p issue.
    CP1000+
    Gallifreyy - DragonKnight - Imperial - EP
    Death by Tray - Nightblade - Dunmer - EP
    Moustacheasaurs - Templar - Dunmer - EP
    Zerief - Sorcerer - High Elf - EP
    Afro Leap - DragonKnight - Redguard - DC
    + 4 other Lvl 50s
    DK IS BACK
  • sevomd69
    sevomd69
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    Git mo' CP... problem solved...
  • SirDopey
    SirDopey
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    Azikiel wrote: »
    SirDopey wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    apostate9 wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    Wreuntzylla wrote: »
    I'm guessing you only have about 100CP? Because you can have it all, baby!

    Obviously thats not optimal though...

    Actually, that''s not obvious at all, due to this thing called "diminishing returns". You may want to learn a bit more about how this game works before you start wacky balance threads.

    You really can't come close to having it all, there aren't just 3 stars that are powerful there are at least 6 for stam users and only 200 points, so needing to spread those out between more stars isn't really fixed by diminishing returns.

    Go get combat metrics. Study your rotation and damage sources so you know exactly what percentage of your damage is coming from light/heavy attacks, dots and direct damage. Go plug those numbers into a CP calculator and then you will have an optimal distribution.

    I can tell you right now it would be 0 master at arms and it would say "stop playing stam-warden" because stam-warden is pointless. That's dumb.

    Stop being such a child. If your rotation is anything like mine it will be 66 points in master of arms. Stamwardens are strong, very strong in pvp but just strong in pve. If you need help with your build PM me as it seems like you don't have a great grasp on the class based on this thread.
    NA PC | AD
    xx Doc Holliday xx
  • Absalon
    Absalon
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    You should be removed.
    CP 810 (PC-NA)
    Harnak - Magplar Healer (PVE)
    Gavin - Magsorc DPS (PVE)
    Manthys - Magplar DPS (PVP)
    Adrya - Stamblade DPS (PVP)
    Targesh - Stamplar DPS (PVP)
  • Azikiel
    Azikiel
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    SirDopey wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    SirDopey wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    apostate9 wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    Wreuntzylla wrote: »
    I'm guessing you only have about 100CP? Because you can have it all, baby!

    Obviously thats not optimal though...

    Actually, that''s not obvious at all, due to this thing called "diminishing returns". You may want to learn a bit more about how this game works before you start wacky balance threads.

    You really can't come close to having it all, there aren't just 3 stars that are powerful there are at least 6 for stam users and only 200 points, so needing to spread those out between more stars isn't really fixed by diminishing returns.

    Go get combat metrics. Study your rotation and damage sources so you know exactly what percentage of your damage is coming from light/heavy attacks, dots and direct damage. Go plug those numbers into a CP calculator and then you will have an optimal distribution.

    I can tell you right now it would be 0 master at arms and it would say "stop playing stam-warden" because stam-warden is pointless. That's dumb.

    Stop being such a child. If your rotation is anything like mine it will be 66 points in master of arms. Stamwardens are strong, very strong in pvp but just strong in pve. If you need help with your build PM me as it seems like you don't have a great grasp on the class based on this thread.

    I don't have a strong grasp on the class? How much DPS do you do with your stamwarden?
  • Nelson_Rebel
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    Absalon wrote: »
    You should be removed.

    + 1


    This is the first I've heard of anyone upset about this. This was a positive change IMO.
  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    No need to change this. It's great to have to have different setups for suffering content..PvP MaA focus and ape focus pve I switch back. Easy
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
    1st Emperor of Ravenwatch
    Alts - - for the Lolz
    Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
    Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
    Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master

    Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
    Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
    Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders

    Xbox One | NA | EP
    Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
    Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
    Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
    Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach
  • Bonzodog01
    Bonzodog01
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    Incidentally Stam NB's have a lot of points in Master-at-Arms, and hardly any in Thaumaturge as most of their skills are high crit direct damage skills. In overland, my stam NB hits mobs from anything between 15K and 40K with every single hit.
    Xbox One - EU - EP/DC
    Trying and failing to hold the walls of his Templar house up since 2015
  • Rex-Umbra
    Rex-Umbra
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    Spread your points out, problem fixed.
    Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
    GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.
  • Emma_Overload
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    I don't even understand what the OP wants. You want a nerf, a buff or what? Because taking away Master-at-Arms would be a huge nerf to my PvP Sorc!
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • Azikiel
    Azikiel
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    SirDopey wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    SirDopey wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    apostate9 wrote: »
    Azikiel wrote: »
    Wreuntzylla wrote: »
    I'm guessing you only have about 100CP? Because you can have it all, baby!

    Obviously thats not optimal though...

    Actually, that''s not obvious at all, due to this thing called "diminishing returns". You may want to learn a bit more about how this game works before you start wacky balance threads.

    You really can't come close to having it all, there aren't just 3 stars that are powerful there are at least 6 for stam users and only 200 points, so needing to spread those out between more stars isn't really fixed by diminishing returns.

    Go get combat metrics. Study your rotation and damage sources so you know exactly what percentage of your damage is coming from light/heavy attacks, dots and direct damage. Go plug those numbers into a CP calculator and then you will have an optimal distribution.

    I can tell you right now it would be 0 master at arms and it would say "stop playing stam-warden" because stam-warden is pointless. That's dumb.

    Stop being such a child. If your rotation is anything like mine it will be 66 points in master of arms. Stamwardens are strong, very strong in pvp but just strong in pve. If you need help with your build PM me as it seems like you don't have a great grasp on the class based on this thread.

    I guarantee your build is awful, and it seems you must not have a grasp on math as it's very simple to see the direct dmage skills you are using do less damage than a DoT skill you could use instead and thus you are just throwing away DPS in pve.
  • Azikiel
    Azikiel
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    Emma_Overload wrote: »
    I don't even understand what the OP wants. You want a nerf, a buff or what? Because taking away Master-at-Arms would be a huge nerf to my PvP Sorc!

    I want thaumaturge and master-at-arms to both be removed and redesigned to not pidgeonhold builds. maybe make them buff area and single target damage? Or class vs weapon skills? Point being that DoTs were already stronger than direct damage and forcing people to only use one or the other makes there one obvious right choice. If the choice were between two things that were more balanced it could actually lead to interesting builds.
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