PVP magblade 2h build with out amber plasm.

CavalryPK

After seeing blobsers 2hander build. I decided to come up with something similar since I am cursed with RNG and I cannot get my hands on amberplasm I put together this set up. basically its shakle + necro and 1 mag recovery monster set. got 37k buffed mag and 2k mag regen. 15k stamina and 1k stam regen. spell dmg is at 1.8k but I think its offset by higher magicka.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=20373

What do you guys think? what other sets you would use that does not require you to sell your soul and spend centuries farming?

I am acutely thinking of swapping out mist form with cloak and slotting impale on the front bar.

CavalryPK

o gosh .. the overwhelming responses. please sthap... I cant keep up.

Xvorg

Some questions:

Why 2H? (I imagine is for FM purge)
Why shadow instead of thief?
Are you planing proc Merc ressolve? How?

Hows your tether tooltip with minor berserk and major brut?

I see no gap closer, why?

CavalryPK

Xvorg wrote: »

Some questions:

Why 2H? (I imagine is for FM purge)
Why shadow instead of thief?
Are you planing proc Merc ressolve? How?

Hows your tether tooltip with minor berserk and major brut?

I see no gap closer, why?

good questions.


Why 2H? (I imagine is for FM purge) - Since you have FM.. you are not going to be rooted during the fights (mostly)... which means your cripple will be your gap closer ... sort of. cast cripple and run to the target..

Why shadow instead of thief? - I prefer shadow in CP campaign . would swap to thief in non CP.


Are you planing proc Merc ressolve? How? - yes. cast MR. swap to resto LA + shade LA+ cripple + run to the target +LA Swap weapon + LA CW+ LA FEAR + LA MR.... something like this...


How's your tether tooltip with minor berserk and major brut? - about 12-13k. website bugges out when i chose both of the buffs at the same time.

I see no gap closer, why? - contemplating about this one. may need to swap to mist form with cloak and put lotus fan on the front bar...

Xvorg

CavalryPK wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Some questions:

Why 2H? (I imagine is for FM purge)
Why shadow instead of thief?
Are you planing proc Merc ressolve? How?

Hows your tether tooltip with minor berserk and major brut?

I see no gap closer, why?

good questions.


Why 2H? (I imagine is for FM purge) - Since you have FM.. you are not going to be rooted during the fights (mostly)... which means your cripple will be your gap closer ... sort of. cast cripple and run to the target..

Why shadow instead of thief? - I prefer shadow in CP campaign . would swap to thief in non CP.


Are you planing proc Merc ressolve? How? - yes. cast MR. swap to resto LA + shade LA+ cripple + run to the target +LA Swap weapon + LA CW+ LA FEAR + LA MR.... something like this...


How's your tether tooltip with minor berserk and major brut? - about 12-13k. website bugges out when i chose both of the buffs at the same time.

I see no gap closer, why? - contemplating about this one. may need to swap to mist form with cloak and put lotus fan on the front bar...

interesting, I see were you are going...

However, consider thief. Under 50% crit chance you are losing a lot DPS. Also consider moar crit chance implies a moar reliable FM, and shadow doesn't work if you don't crit

Jaxaxo

Offhand Bloodthorn works similar to amberplasm and let u play 5/5/2 setup with full monster. Maybe go for war maiden main bar (since u dont run shield, so maybe no need to stack magicka), bloodthorn offbar and monster?

CavalryPK

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Offhand Bloodthorn works similar to amberplasm and let u play 5/5/2 setup with full monster. Maybe go for war maiden main bar (since u dont run shield, so maybe no need to stack magicka), bloodthorn offbar and monster?

interesting... 600 magicka every 5 seconds = 120 magicka per second.. hmm i am not sure how this will work. getting a little regen but loosing a lot of dmg. i think i need to test it out....

I did consider war maiden... i am going to test it out.

CavalryPK

Xvorg wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Some questions:

Why 2H? (I imagine is for FM purge)
Why shadow instead of thief?
Are you planing proc Merc ressolve? How?

Hows your tether tooltip with minor berserk and major brut?

I see no gap closer, why?

good questions.


Why 2H? (I imagine is for FM purge) - Since you have FM.. you are not going to be rooted during the fights (mostly)... which means your cripple will be your gap closer ... sort of. cast cripple and run to the target..

Why shadow instead of thief? - I prefer shadow in CP campaign . would swap to thief in non CP.


Are you planing proc Merc ressolve? How? - yes. cast MR. swap to resto LA + shade LA+ cripple + run to the target +LA Swap weapon + LA CW+ LA FEAR + LA MR.... something like this...


How's your tether tooltip with minor berserk and major brut? - about 12-13k. website bugges out when i chose both of the buffs at the same time.

I see no gap closer, why? - contemplating about this one. may need to swap to mist form with cloak and put lotus fan on the front bar...

interesting, I see were you are going...

However, consider thief. Under 50% crit chance you are losing a lot DPS. Also consider moar crit chance implies a moar reliable FM, and shadow doesn't work if you don't crit

Good point... honestly the only reason you are running FM is for the 8 second root immunity. plus your shadow cloak will give you all the crits you want.

Jaxaxo

CavalryPK wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Offhand Bloodthorn works similar to amberplasm and let u play 5/5/2 setup with full monster. Maybe go for war maiden main bar (since u dont run shield, so maybe no need to stack magicka), bloodthorn offbar and monster?

interesting... 600 magicka every 5 seconds = 120 magicka per second.. hmm i am not sure how this will work. getting a little regen but loosing a lot of dmg. i think i need to test it out....

I did consider war maiden... i am going to test it out.

U can always switch some jewelery glyphs.

casparian

CavalryPK wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Offhand Bloodthorn works similar to amberplasm and let u play 5/5/2 setup with full monster. Maybe go for war maiden main bar (since u dont run shield, so maybe no need to stack magicka), bloodthorn offbar and monster?

interesting... 600 magicka every 5 seconds = 120 magicka per second.. hmm i am not sure how this will work. getting a little regen but loosing a lot of dmg. i think i need to test it out....

I did consider war maiden... i am going to test it out.

I didn't like Bloodthorn as much I thought I would. You aren't actually getting 120 mag/stam per second, you get 600 mag/stam back on a direct damage attack every 5 seconds. This is actually pretty nice when you're going toe-to-toe, but it misses one of the most useful aspects of Amber Plasm, the chance to recover resources while not directly engaging the enemy (e.g. by cloaking out of a fight for a few seconds).

Edit: Then again, with your magicka pool that high, you might be able to afford to drop Witchmother's and run Orzorga's Smoked Bear Haunch or Jewels of Misrule for your recovery (both of those foods give higher mag/stam recovery than Amber). That leaves you with a normal magicka pool and low spell damage, though.

Xsorus

If you're running crippling, its your gap closer

I stopped running Lotus on my Magicka NB a long ass time ago

CavalryPK

casparian wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Offhand Bloodthorn works similar to amberplasm and let u play 5/5/2 setup with full monster. Maybe go for war maiden main bar (since u dont run shield, so maybe no need to stack magicka), bloodthorn offbar and monster?

interesting... 600 magicka every 5 seconds = 120 magicka per second.. hmm i am not sure how this will work. getting a little regen but loosing a lot of dmg. i think i need to test it out....

I did consider war maiden... i am going to test it out.

I didn't like Bloodthorn as much I thought I would. You aren't actually getting 120 mag/stam per second, you get 600 mag/stam back on a direct damage attack every 5 seconds. This is actually pretty nice when you're going toe-to-toe, but it misses one of the most useful aspects of Amber Plasm, the chance to recover resources while not directly engaging the enemy (e.g. by cloaking out of a fight for a few seconds).

Edit: Then again, with your magicka pool that high, you might be able to afford to drop Witchmother's and run Orzorga's Smoked Bear Haunch or Jewels of Misrule for your recovery (both of those foods give higher mag/stam recovery than Amber). That leaves you with a normal magicka pool and low spell damage, though.

yeh i think if you have around 1k stam regen and 15k stam pool. you would not need more . with mother barely puts you at around 2k regen... which for this build i consider lower then desired... I would much rather prefer around 2.4k honestly.

CavalryPK

Xsorus wrote: »

If you're running crippling, its your gap closer

I stopped running Lotus on my Magicka NB a long ass time ago

yeh. i actualy never thought cripple to be considered gap closer until i saw @Blobsky use it in his video.

Xvorg

CavalryPK wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

If you're running crippling, its your gap closer

I stopped running Lotus on my Magicka NB a long ass time ago

yeh. i actualy never thought cripple to be considered gap closer until i saw @Blobsky use it in his video.

I suppose it is the combo cripple + CW + cloak

thankyourat

I've been messing around with two different builds one is 5 transmutation/5 riposte/ 2 grathgarr and another 5 riposte/ 5 shackle breaker/ 1 kena. I think i like the riposte shackle breaker the most. I dropped amberplasm because my traits were crap and my rings are blue. I don't know if you considered riposte but i play with it on all my builds its just too good. I feel like lotus fan is pretty unnecessary my abilities are merciless/ forward momentum/ cloak/ concealed weapon/ sap essance / incap... And the back bar is healing ward/ double take/ crippling grasp/ fear/ path or rapid regen (trying to see which i like better)/ resto ultimate.

ninjaguyman

I pretty much run the same sets. 5 necro, 5 shackle, 1 pc chokethorn/shadowrend for regen. But i still play a shield build with dampen, which was the reason i stacked heavy into max stats with necro and shackle.

how's mist form working for you though? I would have thought combining FM and shadow image would pretty much do what mist form would provide, ie snare purge and jukes. Seems a bit much to have FM, image, cloak, and mist all on the same build. I honestly would have slotted siphoning attacks in place of mist for more sustain.

CavalryPK

ninjaguyman wrote: »

I pretty much run the same sets. 5 necro, 5 shackle, 1 pc chokethorn/shadowrend for regen. But i still play a shield build with dampen, which was the reason i stacked heavy into max stats with necro and shackle.

how's mist form working for you though? I would have thought combining FM and shadow image would pretty much do what mist form would provide, ie snare purge and jukes. Seems a bit much to have FM, image, cloak, and mist all on the same build. I honestly would have slotted siphoning attacks in place of mist for more sustain.

Have just got my forward momentum morphed . Will be in pvp testing it out next few days. But i agree with you mist form is not nessesary especially when you can use immov + FM to get away from your. shade

CavalryPK

Ok so. i attempted to play 2h.. i can be very sneaky. no one can pin me down... but i feel like my mag regen is not enogh and i cannot land weapon light attacks to proc MR... basically got my ars handed to myself constantly

Balsagna

Is a 2H build really viable for a magblade? I would love to try something new with my magblade, but this isn't something I ever considered.

Would this be PvE viable or only PvP? And, I am not concerned in terms of vet trial dps needs, I can do that already, but if I wanted to vet dungeons or something of that ilk.

casparian

Balsagna wrote: »

Is a 2H build really viable for a magblade? I would love to try something new with my magblade, but this isn't something I ever considered.

Would this be PvE viable or only PvP? And, I am not concerned in terms of vet trial dps needs, I can do that already, but if I wanted to vet dungeons or something of that ilk.

Melee magblade is a PVP thing only. Is it viable? Take a look and see for yourself.

Why does it work? 2H gives exactly the same spell damage and damage-done bonus as dual wield, while also letting you use Forward Momentum. FW purges (and grants immunity to) snares, making Cloak a much more viable defensive tool. The disadvantage is the lack of a set piece.

casparian

I'm not doing the 2H thing like you (still sticking to dual wield), but here's what I've found regarding Shacklebreaker.

On my mageblade, wearing 5 Shackle + 5 Necro (front bar only) + 2 Engine Guardian and tri-stat food, I have 49.8k magicka and 19k stamina, with 1.2k mag regen and 1.1k stam regen. I got stam regen to that value by running one stam recovery glyph on a ring (the other jewelry glyphs are spell damage and reduce mag cost). When my weapon damage glyph kicks in, I have 3k spell damage. My Concealed Weapon tooltip is 12k and Assassin's Will is 24k. (Edit: @CavalryPK I have no idea how you only got 37k magicka on your Necro + Shackle test. I think something might have gone wrong with your UESP build editor setup.)

Changing Shackle for Amber and leaving the rest of the build exactly the same, I have 48.7k magicka, 16.4k stamina, 1.5k mag regen and 1.3k stam regen. Spell damage remains the same. Concealed and Assassin's Will tooltips both go down by ~200.

I don't see how the difference between the two justifies calling Amber the superior choice, let alone saying Amber is worth the farm. Yes, I would like my regen values to be higher than they are when running Shackle, but running Amber doesn't increase them a large enough amount to convince me I should keep farming for impen Amber. Yes, the extra 200 stam regen is not insignificant. On the other hand, the extra stamina on the Shackle build is almost the cost of a dodge roll, which gives me a slightly longer time I can afford to wait for my stamina pool to tick back up or Engine friend to give me a boost.

Another difference: With Shackle and spellpower/crit pots, I have 46% crit (running Shadow stone), which goes up to 49% with Amber (it's 48%/51%) when running Incap). This gap doesn't feel too significant now, but it will be in the next patch when Amber's crit bonus is buffed. (At first I thought that my crit wouldn't matter too much, since I cast Shadowy Disguise so often. But more often than not, the Shadowy Disguise crit is consumed by a Crippling Grasp tick, and doesn't get applied to Concealed Weapon. So I still want a high crit value.) This is the one thing that makes me continue to be interested in Amber.

Obviously this is motivated reasoning: I'm really sick of Heem-Jas at this point and would prefer for Shackle to be a non-handicapping set. @NightbladeMechanics I know you have been talking down Shacklebreaker -- what am I missing here?

casparian

@CavalryPK if you get sick of farming Amber, have you considered Necro + Pelinal's? That turns Forward Momentum's Major Brutality into a spell damage buff, meaning you can run a stam sustain potion like tri-stat or immovable. I think Kena was running this setup in some streams not too long ago. Plus that setup has pretty decent stats.

CavalryPK

casparian wrote: »

I'm not doing the 2H thing like you (still sticking to dual wield), but here's what I've found regarding Shacklebreaker.

On my mageblade, wearing 5 Shackle + 5 Necro (front bar only) + 2 Engine Guardian and tri-stat food, I have 49.8k magicka and 19k stamina, with 1.2k mag regen and 1.1k stam regen. I got stam regen to that value by running one stam recovery glyph on a ring (the other jewelry glyphs are spell damage and reduce mag cost). When my weapon damage glyph kicks in, I have 3k spell damage. My Concealed Weapon tooltip is 12k and Assassin's Will is 24k. (Edit: @CavalryPK I have no idea how you only got 37k magicka on your Necro + Shackle test. I think something might have gone wrong with your UESP build editor setup.)

Changing Shackle for Amber and leaving the rest of the build exactly the same, I have 48.7k magicka, 16.4k stamina, 1.5k mag regen and 1.3k stam regen. Spell damage remains the same. Concealed and Assassin's Will tooltips both go down by ~200.

I don't see how the difference between the two justifies calling Amber the superior choice, let alone saying Amber is worth the farm. Yes, I would like my regen values to be higher than they are when running Shackle, but running Amber doesn't increase them a large enough amount to convince me I should keep farming for impen Amber. Yes, the extra 200 stam regen is not insignificant. On the other hand, the extra stamina on the Shackle build is almost the cost of a dodge roll, which gives me a slightly longer time I can afford to wait for my stamina pool to tick back up or Engine friend to give me a boost.

Another difference: With Shackle and spellpower/crit pots, I have 46% crit (running Shadow stone), which goes up to 49% with Amber (it's 48%/51%) when running Incap). This gap doesn't feel too significant now, but it will be in the next patch when Amber's crit bonus is buffed. (At first I thought that my crit wouldn't matter too much, since I cast Shadowy Disguise so often. But more often than not, the Shadowy Disguise crit is consumed by a Crippling Grasp tick, and doesn't get applied to Concealed Weapon. So I still want a high crit value.) This is the one thing that makes me continue to be interested in Amber.

Obviously this is motivated reasoning: I'm really sick of Heem-Jas at this point and would prefer for Shackle to be a non-handicapping set. @NightbladeMechanics I know you have been talking down Shacklebreaker -- what am I missing here?

yeh you are right. max magicka in game is much higher. it shows 39k magicka with a siphoning ability slotted. when I put down the shad max magicka goes up to 44k. is there a way to increase the magicka recovery to 2.5k and still maintain 1k stam recovery and roughly 1.9 spell dmg ? @Blobsky said that he runs 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs which is ideal if you gona be cloaking so much. Plus the CW is expensive I so definitely need that cost reduction. maybe with such a high stam pool I can afford to get below 1k stam recovery.. I don't know...

ninjaguyman

CavalryPK wrote: »

Ok so. i attempted to play 2h.. i can be very sneaky. no one can pin me down... but i feel like my mag regen is not enogh and i cannot land weapon light attacks to proc MR... basically got my ars handed to myself constantly

always weave lights on your resto bar while you rebuff. sometimes I need to just sit back and just weave lights and cripples until i can immobilize and slow an enemy, which may take a few shots on roll dodging opponents. with your bar set up you'd already be at 4 light attacks after a full buff up rotation(merciless>bar swap+ LA>shadow image>LA>mark>LA> cripple> LA+bar swap>momentum) . if the cripple landed then u should be able to charge forward and get one light in to finish off a merciless.

after I close the gap to melee range i can usually stay on top of my opponent well enough to get light attacks off with my melee weapon. I was able to do this with s&b front bar since one tamriel dropped. so It is most definitely possible when we have a snare purge with momentum.

also dont forget to use 2h heavies to empower your burst attacks. a heavy into an ult+merciless is a pretty strong combo. Its a pretty telegraphed attack by me since i dont use cloak... but since you use cloak u should be able to hide the heavy from an enemy so they arent as expecting.

CavalryPK

ninjaguyman wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

with your bar set up you'd already be at 4 light attacks after a full buff up rotation(merciless>bar swap+ LA>shadow image>LA>mark>LA> cripple> LA+bar swap>momentum) . if the cripple landed then u should be able to charge forward and get one light in to finish off a merciless.
quote]

Regarding this.... The problem I was having is when I spend too much time LAing on the back bar it leaves me exposed to dmg. My strategy I am trying to achieve is being sneaky to not take dmg .. so far I am doing a terrible job at it.

ninjaguyman

CavalryPK wrote: »

ninjaguyman wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

with your bar set up you'd already be at 4 light attacks after a full buff up rotation(merciless>bar swap+ LA>shadow image>LA>mark>LA> cripple> LA+bar swap>momentum) . if the cripple landed then u should be able to charge forward and get one light in to finish off a merciless.
quote]

Regarding this.... The problem I was having is when I spend too much time LAing on the back bar it leaves me exposed to dmg. My strategy I am trying to achieve is being sneaky to not take dmg .. so far I am doing a terrible job at it.

Ah i see, well that simply means you can't open up with a merciless as soon as you're in melee range. looking at your skills, a lot of your buffs can be cast within stealth, namely merciless, mark, and i think forward momentum. if all of those are cast while you are invisible that means you'd only weave lights twice on your resto on the skills that pull you out of stealth for shade and cripple. If your going for a more stealth playstyle then you should probably disregard when i said that you should weave cripples until one lands. If you really need major expedition and you feel that cripple isn't landing enough, try slotting double take in place of mist form so you can self buff your speed. but if thats not a problem then I still stay slot siphoning as I said above because I think your recovery is kinda lowish.

Blobsky

CavalryPK wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

I'm not doing the 2H thing like you (still sticking to dual wield), but here's what I've found regarding Shacklebreaker.

On my mageblade, wearing 5 Shackle + 5 Necro (front bar only) + 2 Engine Guardian and tri-stat food, I have 49.8k magicka and 19k stamina, with 1.2k mag regen and 1.1k stam regen. I got stam regen to that value by running one stam recovery glyph on a ring (the other jewelry glyphs are spell damage and reduce mag cost). When my weapon damage glyph kicks in, I have 3k spell damage. My Concealed Weapon tooltip is 12k and Assassin's Will is 24k. (Edit: @CavalryPK I have no idea how you only got 37k magicka on your Necro + Shackle test. I think something might have gone wrong with your UESP build editor setup.)

Changing Shackle for Amber and leaving the rest of the build exactly the same, I have 48.7k magicka, 16.4k stamina, 1.5k mag regen and 1.3k stam regen. Spell damage remains the same. Concealed and Assassin's Will tooltips both go down by ~200.

I don't see how the difference between the two justifies calling Amber the superior choice, let alone saying Amber is worth the farm. Yes, I would like my regen values to be higher than they are when running Shackle, but running Amber doesn't increase them a large enough amount to convince me I should keep farming for impen Amber. Yes, the extra 200 stam regen is not insignificant. On the other hand, the extra stamina on the Shackle build is almost the cost of a dodge roll, which gives me a slightly longer time I can afford to wait for my stamina pool to tick back up or Engine friend to give me a boost.

Another difference: With Shackle and spellpower/crit pots, I have 46% crit (running Shadow stone), which goes up to 49% with Amber (it's 48%/51%) when running Incap). This gap doesn't feel too significant now, but it will be in the next patch when Amber's crit bonus is buffed. (At first I thought that my crit wouldn't matter too much, since I cast Shadowy Disguise so often. But more often than not, the Shadowy Disguise crit is consumed by a Crippling Grasp tick, and doesn't get applied to Concealed Weapon. So I still want a high crit value.) This is the one thing that makes me continue to be interested in Amber.

Obviously this is motivated reasoning: I'm really sick of Heem-Jas at this point and would prefer for Shackle to be a non-handicapping set. @NightbladeMechanics I know you have been talking down Shacklebreaker -- what am I missing here?

yeh you are right. max magicka in game is much higher. it shows 39k magicka with a siphoning ability slotted. when I put down the shad max magicka goes up to 44k. is there a way to increase the magicka recovery to 2.5k and still maintain 1k stam recovery and roughly 1.9 spell dmg ? @Blobsky said that he runs 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs which is ideal if you gona be cloaking so much. Plus the CW is expensive I so definitely need that cost reduction. maybe with such a high stam pool I can afford to get below 1k stam recovery.. I don't know...

My current stats are 37k magicka, 15.5k stam, 25k health, 2.45k mag rec, 1.35k stam rec, 2.1k spell damage unbuffed with the Shadow mundus in !magnb2 build

Word from the wise, don't become reliant on harness / dampen if you play 2h. Your cloak is extremely reliable, heal ward + cloak is plenty of survivability if played properly, but it takes a hell of a lot of practise

CavalryPK

ninjaguyman wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

Ok so. i attempted to play 2h.. i can be very sneaky. no one can pin me down... but i feel like my mag regen is not enogh and i cannot land weapon light attacks to proc MR... basically got my ars handed to myself constantly

always weave lights on your resto bar while you rebuff. sometimes I need to just sit back and just weave lights and cripples until i can immobilize and slow an enemy, which may take a few shots on roll dodging opponents. with your bar set up you'd already be at 4 light attacks after a full buff up rotation(merciless>bar swap+ LA>shadow image>LA>mark>LA> cripple> LA+bar swap>momentum) . if the cripple landed then u should be able to charge forward and get one light in to finish off a merciless.

after I close the gap to melee range i can usually stay on top of my opponent well enough to get light attacks off with my melee weapon. I was able to do this with s&b front bar since one tamriel dropped. so It is most definitely possible when we have a snare purge with momentum.

also dont forget to use 2h heavies to empower your burst attacks. a heavy into an ult+merciless is a pretty strong combo. Its a pretty telegraphed attack by me since i dont use cloak... but since you use cloak u should be able to hide the heavy from an enemy so they arent as expecting.

Fixed it.... sorry @ninjaguyman . something went wrong with the quotes

Regarding this.... The problem I was having is when I spend too much time LAing on the back bar it leaves me exposed to dmg. My strategy I am trying to achieve is being sneaky to not take dmg .. so far I am doing a terrible job at it

CavalryPK

Blobsky wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

I'm not doing the 2H thing like you (still sticking to dual wield), but here's what I've found regarding Shacklebreaker.

On my mageblade, wearing 5 Shackle + 5 Necro (front bar only) + 2 Engine Guardian and tri-stat food, I have 49.8k magicka and 19k stamina, with 1.2k mag regen and 1.1k stam regen. I got stam regen to that value by running one stam recovery glyph on a ring (the other jewelry glyphs are spell damage and reduce mag cost). When my weapon damage glyph kicks in, I have 3k spell damage. My Concealed Weapon tooltip is 12k and Assassin's Will is 24k. (Edit: @CavalryPK I have no idea how you only got 37k magicka on your Necro + Shackle test. I think something might have gone wrong with your UESP build editor setup.)

Changing Shackle for Amber and leaving the rest of the build exactly the same, I have 48.7k magicka, 16.4k stamina, 1.5k mag regen and 1.3k stam regen. Spell damage remains the same. Concealed and Assassin's Will tooltips both go down by ~200.

I don't see how the difference between the two justifies calling Amber the superior choice, let alone saying Amber is worth the farm. Yes, I would like my regen values to be higher than they are when running Shackle, but running Amber doesn't increase them a large enough amount to convince me I should keep farming for impen Amber. Yes, the extra 200 stam regen is not insignificant. On the other hand, the extra stamina on the Shackle build is almost the cost of a dodge roll, which gives me a slightly longer time I can afford to wait for my stamina pool to tick back up or Engine friend to give me a boost.

Another difference: With Shackle and spellpower/crit pots, I have 46% crit (running Shadow stone), which goes up to 49% with Amber (it's 48%/51%) when running Incap). This gap doesn't feel too significant now, but it will be in the next patch when Amber's crit bonus is buffed. (At first I thought that my crit wouldn't matter too much, since I cast Shadowy Disguise so often. But more often than not, the Shadowy Disguise crit is consumed by a Crippling Grasp tick, and doesn't get applied to Concealed Weapon. So I still want a high crit value.) This is the one thing that makes me continue to be interested in Amber.

Obviously this is motivated reasoning: I'm really sick of Heem-Jas at this point and would prefer for Shackle to be a non-handicapping set. @NightbladeMechanics I know you have been talking down Shacklebreaker -- what am I missing here?

yeh you are right. max magicka in game is much higher. it shows 39k magicka with a siphoning ability slotted. when I put down the shad max magicka goes up to 44k. is there a way to increase the magicka recovery to 2.5k and still maintain 1k stam recovery and roughly 1.9 spell dmg ? @Blobsky said that he runs 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs which is ideal if you gona be cloaking so much. Plus the CW is expensive I so definitely need that cost reduction. maybe with such a high stam pool I can afford to get below 1k stam recovery.. I don't know...

My current stats are 37k magicka, 15.5k stam, 25k health, 2.45k mag rec, 1.35k stam rec, 2.1k spell damage unbuffed with the Shadow mundus in !magnb2 build

Word from the wise, don't become reliant on harness / dampen if you play 2h. Your cloak is extremely reliable, heal ward + cloak is plenty of survivability if played properly, but it takes a hell of a lot of practise

Yep.. I see ... this is why I need amberplasm @casparian , shackle and necro combo will not give me the desired magicka/stamin regen (2.45k mag rec, 1.35k stam ). On top of that @Blobsky is running couple of reduced cost glyphs ... since I spend so much time in cloak the reduced cost and magicka regen is very important.