Crafting sets - rebalance needed

EpicRekkoning

I'm not on the forums a ton and apologize if this topic has been discussed before. Does anyone else feel like the crafting sets, especially the 8 and 9 trait sets, need to be rebalanced and made stronger? It take ~6 months to learn all of the traits for every item and yet most set aren't that relevant in end game. It's easier to grind to 160 and farm gear in normal dungeons and trials than it is to learn 9 traits for crafting. Seems like the crafting sets (9 traits) should be some of the best sets in the game.

Thoughts?

Taleof2Cities

Agree, crafted sets are currently underperforming versus their dropped counterparts.

There has been some chatter in the forums recently ... but another reminder doesn't hurt.

Narvuntien

Next patch a bunch of them are getting a lot better.

Julianos and Hundings rage in particular.

There was a buff to amount of basic resources and a big Crit buff for all sets however the crafted sets have lots of resources in thier 1-4 set bonuses.

Proc sets are nerfed again as well. Which buffs Clever Alchemist

Taleof2Cities

Twice Born Star is also looking to be better depending on the Mundus stones you use.

STEVIL

EpicRekkoning wrote: »

I'm not on the forums a ton and apologize if this topic has been discussed before. Does anyone else feel like the crafting sets, especially the 8 and 9 trait sets, need to be rebalanced and made stronger? It take ~6 months to learn all of the traits for every item and yet most set aren't that relevant in end game. It's easier to grind to 160 and farm gear in normal dungeons and trials than it is to learn 9 traits for crafting. Seems like the crafting sets (9 traits) should be some of the best sets in the game.

Thoughts?

Crafting needs its up-tick that competes with the massive up-tick that drop sets got in 1Tam.

i list several things below in my sign but basically my preferences are:
1 - End the "competition" between crafted and drop sets by giving crafted sets their own unique slots... take weapons away from drop sets (eliminating the worst RNg of that grind btw) and let crafted be the only source to fill the weapon slots with sets - just like drops are the only way to fill the jewel slots with sets.
2 - Give crafted sets the ability to be made in a 3pc or 4pc version by dropping one or two of the 2-3-4pc bonus at start. that can let the crafter tailor a lot of the so-so crafted sets - getting more options - and to help provide some flexibility for the 11pc staff, bow and 2H builds.
3 - Drop the x10 cost for cp160 gear.
4 - Increase the return rate from decon for tempers/wax/etc quality tokens to at least HALF of what went into it for crafted sets.

just a few ideas...

Tevalaur

Narvuntien wrote: »

Next patch a bunch of them are getting a lot better.

Julianos and Hundings rage in particular.

There was a buff to amount of basic resources and a big Crit buff for all sets however the crafted sets have lots of resources in thier 1-4 set bonuses.

Proc sets are nerfed again as well. Which buffs Clever Alchemist

While many crafted sets will get better, so will the same bonuses in other sets, so that won't improve the crafted to dropped balance...

Ankael07

Well apperantly devs think otherwise because recently Death's Wind set 5th piece was nerfed. It now grants stun immunity to those affected.

But yeah they'll make changes to the same 10-15 proc sets over and over again, piegonholing the majority of players into it

EpicRekkoning

STEVIL wrote: »

EpicRekkoning wrote: »

I'm not on the forums a ton and apologize if this topic has been discussed before. Does anyone else feel like the crafting sets, especially the 8 and 9 trait sets, need to be rebalanced and made stronger? It take ~6 months to learn all of the traits for every item and yet most set aren't that relevant in end game. It's easier to grind to 160 and farm gear in normal dungeons and trials than it is to learn 9 traits for crafting. Seems like the crafting sets (9 traits) should be some of the best sets in the game.

Thoughts?

Crafting needs its up-tick that competes with the massive up-tick that drop sets got in 1Tam.

i list several things below in my sign but basically my preferences are:
1 - End the "competition" between crafted and drop sets by giving crafted sets their own unique slots... take weapons away from drop sets (eliminating the worst RNg of that grind btw) and let crafted be the only source to fill the weapon slots with sets - just like drops are the only way to fill the jewel slots with sets.
2 - Give crafted sets the ability to be made in a 3pc or 4pc version by dropping one or two of the 2-3-4pc bonus at start. that can let the crafter tailor a lot of the so-so crafted sets - getting more options - and to help provide some flexibility for the 11pc staff, bow and 2H builds.
3 - Drop the x10 cost for cp160 gear.
4 - Increase the return rate from decon for tempers/wax/etc quality tokens to at least HALF of what went into it for crafted sets.

just a few ideas...

I wouldn't mind something like this. Really, anything to make crafting important again would be nice.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this needs a change. Anytime you have to spend 6 months in a game to complete something, the reward should be equal to the time you put in. I'm not saying the gear has to be the best in the game, that should be trial gear, but it should be a very close second and definitely better than overland/dungeon drops.

Banana

and transmog

cjhhickman39

One good thing for crafted sets is the nerf to sharpened traits coming. Most of the tests I've read about have nrin weapons in the top three with little difference between one and three so with the buffs to armor sets to the fourth trait and nrin weapons being good it should help crafting

Septimus_Magna

There are quite a few crafted sets that havent being used for ages. I mean one of the sets buffs the dmg of the soul trap ability, which nobody has every used seriously. Revamp the sets that arent being used and make something completely different.

cjhhickman39 wrote: »

One good thing for crafted sets is the nerf to sharpened traits coming. Most of the tests I've read about have nrin weapons in the top three with little difference between one and three so with the buffs to armor sets to the fourth trait and nrin weapons being good it should help crafting

Nirn could be good in pvp depending on your build but it will be like 4th best for pve dps builds.

Tevalaur

cjhhickman39 wrote: »

One good thing for crafted sets is the nerf to sharpened traits coming. Most of the tests I've read about have nrin weapons in the top three with little difference between one and three ... it should help crafting

Why is someone going to invest the extra gold/time to create nirn weapons (3rd best) over the BiS trait? Improving nirn from nearly the worst to middle of the field given its cost is still going to have nearly everyone stay away from it.

EDIT: One might be "happy enough" with a "nearly as good 3rd rated trait" that dropped from difficult content if not a min-max player, but one would not deliberately set out to use anything but BiS from crafted gear.

cjhhickman39

I think you are missing my point, before this change in sharpened this trait was so far ahead of the others that you didn't even look at anything else . With all the changes to armor slot one through four and mundus stone changes theory crafting will hopefully take off and someone may very well find a crafted concept that will be as good as or BIS

STEVIL

On nirnhoned...

I have advocated for major rethink on traits.

right now most all traits are internal - they focus on raising your stats in this way or that way.

Make all traits external - give them all bonuses that only apply in certain circumstances that include things like vs certain enemies or vs certain types of damage. So if you have the right gear with the "right trait" for the right opposition or challenge you get to BiS slot if you dont, you dont get there and by a noticeable but not overwhelming margin.

in that model, you could make nirnhoned the "universal" trait giving bonuses that put it between "right trait" and "not right trait" for everything.

that gives nirnhoned a very valuable role in the grand scheme of things and basically makes most every trait not just useful or viable but best "somewhere."

My balance goals tend to be "everything is best somewhere, nothing is best everywhere and something is second best everywhere."

Now, a variant of that could be "Everything is best somewhere, worst somewhere and second best everywhere else" but that might not give nirnhoned a good place to be as special as it needs to be to justify its cost.

SoLooney

We dont need crafted sets outperforming dropped sets, that destroys the purpose of doing harder dungeons and trials. If people want best in slot, go work for it like everyone else, no fun when anyone can get the besr armor and weapon they want instantly.
anyways, gear like hundings and julianos do great

Trinity_Is_My_Name

I don't know about "balancing" sets but they sure as heck need to be changed so they are useful. Many of these high trait sets are junk.

In the 3 years I've been in this game I've seen a total of 2 players use Morkuldin. And that wasn't for long. That animated sword is a piece of junk and useless. 9 traits for that? The list goes on for these useless sets. Change them so they are at least on par with Dropped Sets we strive to get in tough dungeons.

STEVIL

SoLooney wrote: »

We dont need crafted sets outperforming dropped sets, that destroys the purpose of doing harder dungeons and trials. If people want best in slot, go work for it like everyone else, no fun when anyone can get the besr armor and weapon they want instantly.
anyways, gear like hundings and julianos do great

Straw man much?

I dont recall seeing many asking for crafted sets to outperform the BiS drop sets from dungeons and trials.

As for "go work for it" well maybe you are new to the game but developing crafting for equipment takes a ton of time and investment - and that means like 20+ skill point expenditures for each craft.

let me ask you this - if 20+skills invested in say a class skill line yielded "underperforming" options that are for the most part outshown by options that did not require 20+ skill points do you think that would be left as is and folks say "thats how its supposed to be"?

No?

What if crafted potions were worse than commonly dropped potions from overland mobs, delve bosses and public dungeons? Think many would be investing 20+ skill points to be able to craft mostly second best potions when they coul farm better ones? Think the line of folks talking about how thats the way it should be would be lining up behind you?

Spriggans, Mothers sorrow, Spinners, necropotence, etc - there are quite a few overland drop sets that are top-notch, very useful in end game and close to the BiS depending on build - and there are maybe just maybe as many as close to top tier craftables - but i dont need to invest 20+ skill points into "gathering drop sets" outside of my combat skills like i do with crafted sets per type.

There is a serious imbalance between the gain-for-pain for equip crafting and consumable crafting and between drop sets and crafted sets on the broad scale of things.

But again, inspite of the straw men, not asking for "outperforming" at all.

What i am asking for is for crafted sets to get two slots that are limited to crafted only (sets) so that like drop sets there are some slots that have to be crafted (sets) just like there are some slots that have to be drop (sets) so that it is no longer a competition between drops and crafts but a collaboration where both are needed to get to the stronger outcomes.

that way, you can have your ego stroking beat the big bad and get the bigger, harder ribbed for more impact drop piece BiS and others can craft the strong sets for your other slots that your big ribbed drop piece cannot fill.

Then everybody can be happy all at once.

Also, if the slots given over to crafted are weapons, then the most onerous of the RNG drops hunt is shifted to crafted and controlled, making that drop RNg hunt a lot more manageable.

nCats

IMO the situation with crafted sets is just like with dropped sets. Most are junk, some are pretty good. Eternal Hunt is 9 trait, Kagrenac is 8 trait, Alchemist is 7 trait, so that is the high end right there. All those sets are useful. A lot of 6 trait sets are useful.

I'd love to have crafted jewelry, otherwise I'm seeing no difference in pattern: crafted is just as good/bad as dropped or pvp, percentage-wise.

Many sets need rework in this game, crafted included, but not exclusively crafted.