Game issues and the future of ESO

McCracken79

It really amazes me that ZOS can have a PvP holiday even and not foresee these issues. It’s either they didn’t think they would have the number of players attending the event or they knew this was going to be an issue and just ignored it. Either one is very bad. For all I know they did this on purpose to *** everyone off and to show how bad PvP really is so they could just get rid of it and focus on PvE but I am probably talking out my butt here.

It is clear they do not want to dump any more resources into PvP to correct the ridiculous number of issues/bugs that have been going on for ages. If they really cared they would have hired a third party to come in and analyze all their data to see what needs to be done to fix everything because it’s clear they have no idea what they are doing.

This game needs a major revision soon if they really want PvP to stick around. Having a PvP event where the majority of the player base cannot get in to play is a kick in the face. And those who are in have to deal with the lag induced garbage that is Cyrodiil. Here is what I believe needs to be looked at ASAP…

1. Figure out what you want to do with Champion Points. Either keep them or get rid of them. Ever since they were introduced you have balanced the game around them. Simply having non-CP campaigns and Battlegrounds without adjusting everything else makes no sense at all.

2. I know they said they either cannot do this due to game limitations or it’s just so far gone that ZOS do not want to take the time but they need to separate PvE form PvP. This can be done by adjusting skills in PvP only, having different PvP “only” skills and/or only allowing PvP sets to be worn in Cyrodiil. Yes, this would be a massive overhaul and honestly, I have no idea where I would start but I am not a developer.

3. I just do not have lag in PvP, I get it all the time in PvE as well, dungeons and especially Trials. No, my internet is fine and I play a lot of other games and MMO PvP games with no issues. Hell, sometimes my ping is over 300 when I am at my home sitting on my Emperor throne. They may have cut back on a lot of hardware where the servers just cannot keep up with everything going on. It could be with all the DLC’s and bad coding. Having new content regularly is great but pushing content out that is not tested properly just to stay on schedule is a good way to have players leave the game or unsub and stop throwing money at ZOS. Perhaps you should invest in having you netcode revamped because I truly believe that is the problem.

4. This part goes along with the netcode. I am not sure what ZOS uses to verify that a player has been using a cheat engine. Most MMO’s have an anti-cheat program that initiates when starting the game. It checks to see if any programs are open that modify memory addresses. If it finds one it stops the game from starting. Why this game does not have one just blows my mind. By using one they can push more of the games calculations onto the client side thus freeing up resources on the server. Have you looked at your CPU and video card stats when playing this game? I can have this game running and play another graphic intense game with no issues at all, well i tried that and only had sound issues

5. Communicate better with your player base. Ignoring problems creates more problems. Be open about issues, explain what is happening, why it’s happening and what you plan on doing to resolve it.

6. Finally, I know they said that this is not your regular MMO and that’s awesome that they want to steer clear from WoW and others. But for crying out loud let’s have a UI overhaul. It is absolutely horrendous. No search functions, no mini map. You know you have a great UI when you need little to no add-ons.



TL;DR

ZOS need to start working on their infrastructure more and start focusing on polishing their game. When you have events, they need to work, period. There’s always going to be issues but when these issues just continue to keep happening for months, years on end with no resolve it creates a hostile environment that is happening right now.

Mz_Jo

Well said, please let me add my thoughts,

1. This was seen ahead. It was "hidden" live server test. VERY POORLY EXECUTED. We have been told in the past ZOS has "considered" more live pvp testing. To do so under the guise of an " event" was foolish. Plus to hold an "event" with far less campaigns and pre-purchased access to Battlegrounds (with broken grouping) made the whole idea simply stated STUPID.
2. Which leads to what most of this community wants HONEST , OPEN COMMUNICATION! These forums seem poorly "manned" by ZOS pros to answer questions. HELPLESS DESK is just that "helpless" (most of the time). Why does ZOS not have Live Internet based Chat Help? Why does ZOS suggest we go to 3rd party sites for help???
3. Champion Points vs Vet Ranks. CP sounded cool, but seems to be a big thorn. Don't have the answer, but you can't keep holding back your loyal, from launch base, to satisfy a few new players. If you join an MMO late you have to expect to play catch up! As for PVP I forsee all non CP campaigns as ZOS solution over server updates / investment. Buy more hamsters please.
4. Communication! Did I mention that ? I do like the ESO Live on Twitch but why bother with chat. You only use that now for give a ways.
5. PS4 - Zenimax Gamemaster ?? Really !?! Who are they ? Been here since launch, retired, play almost everyday, never seen 1. Getting tired of loss of MY game time to self police this game! To NO purpose! Don't really want ZOS police, but if ZOS isn't going to respond to the MANY players who report, get IN HERE PLEASE.
6. Of my FREE WILL I spent a LOT of money on this game! I love this game ,I want to support this game and see it grow. ZOS , I'm tired of broken updates that just break more unforseen things in the game! Take a pause and INVEST. I'm starting to believe you're WAY under staffed and in over your heads! I personally know a lot of playerx who have willing spent 100's more like 1,000's of real money! Where is our money going?
7. Back to the PVP event! VERY LAME that ZOS is waiting until regular times to take down servers and fix them!!! OUTRAGE The WHOLE game is a mess NA! PVP/PVE WTH is this weekend going to be like?!?!?!

I'm NOT whining I'm concerned! Just PLEASE communicate with us more! Sorry for the ramble, bad habit lol. Hamster servers in the head work OT when it comes to ZOS. Twitter is NOT the preffered means of COMMUNICATION! This site IS!

THANKS if you bothered to read the ramble, agreed or not. Best of luck this weekend!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Sigtric

McCracken79 wrote: »

I am probably talking out my butt here.

QFE

Malic

Im not amazed at all, ZOS has been really crappy about server issues and PVP in general. This event is as clear a signal as ever they dont give 2 poops about PVP. There is no way, given all the server issues and reports over the last month you go forward with an event like this if you cared about your players have an actual positive experience.

RinaldoGandolphi

Malic wrote: »

Im not amazed at all, ZOS has been really crappy about server issues and PVP in general. This event is as clear a signal as ever they dont give 2 poops about PVP. There is no way, given all the server issues and reports over the last month you go forward with an event like this if you cared about your players have an actual positive experience.

I wouldn't go that far, they did infact open up more PVP campaigns to try and alleviate the que issues.

The problem is they simply do not have the hardware server capcity to handle this. Under "normal PVP conditions" outside of this event they need 2-3x times the server hardware they have right now simply due to how poorly the Server and Client side software scales. If you cna't fix the scaling issues in the software, then you simply bring more number crunching power to bare on it till you have enough. (This is what AMD, Intel, and Nvidia do with new generations of hardware they just make it more powerful so poor optimizations on older stuff matters less and less)

Simply put they need to either get a better server hosting providor with more powerful hardware, or they simply need to rent more servers and simply get more hardware resources.

The Devs usually don't have much control over this, money expenditures are usually decided elsewhere by suits or different people. All the devs can do is ask, it won't be them writing the checks to get it bought.

Maybe this event will convince the suits they need to invest in more server and hardware...lets hope.

SilentRaven1972

Got a few latency spikes in PVE this morning. It's getting closer to "prime-time", so I'll be finding something else to do most of the weekend. I think last night was just a fragment of the horror to come.

a1i3nz

They obviously don't care about pvp. I don't think they really care about fixing performance anymore, just adding content to make money.

DjMuscleboy02

McCracken79 wrote: »

For all I know they did this on purpose to *** everyone off and to show how bad PvP really is so they could just get rid of it and focus on PvE

Trials were completely unplayable on console for an entire patch and they continuously hit PvE with changes to appease PvPers. I'm not complaining, it's whatever, but they are doing everything except focusing on PvE lol

DeHei

After reading this and they hopefully read it too, they should react and learn from it... Until we lose our hope, they can do very much. With my experience from last years and months they roll the cube for coming changes

McCracken79

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

McCracken79 wrote: »

For all I know they did this on purpose to *** everyone off and to show how bad PvP really is so they could just get rid of it and focus on PvE

Trials were completely unplayable on console for an entire patch and they continuously hit PvE with changes to appease PvPers. I'm not complaining, it's whatever, but they are doing everything except focusing on PvE lol

I'm on PC/NA. I know you console folks have those issues that are still ongoing. I think we can all agree on that they are more focused on pushing content then fixing issues.

Karivaa

Please! We love this game. Fix it!

DjMuscleboy02

McCracken79 wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

McCracken79 wrote: »

For all I know they did this on purpose to *** everyone off and to show how bad PvP really is so they could just get rid of it and focus on PvE

Trials were completely unplayable on console for an entire patch and they continuously hit PvE with changes to appease PvPers. I'm not complaining, it's whatever, but they are doing everything except focusing on PvE lol

I'm on PC/NA. I know you console folks have those issues that are still ongoing. I think we can all agree on that they are more focused on pushing content then fixing issues.

For sure, and in the absolute strict meaning of the phrase, I guess quests and all that nonsense is PvE. However, I really don't consider anything outside of dungeons and trials PvE.

Honestly if they just took one patch to, instead of pushing more bull *** crown store items and meta changing "balance" updates, focus solely on fixing QoL and server issues then this game could be phenomenal.

Sandman929

One alternative MMO with decent servers ends ESO on consoles. I don't know what all the PC alternatives are but they must not be great if the game is still strong on that platform. Makes me think that BDO isn't going to be good enough on consoles either, although I'd try anything if it provided close to what ESO provides when it manages to work.
And I write this with no desire to leave ESO. I love the look of the game and the Elder Scrolls universe so this is a game I want to keep playing, but either ZOS's willful neglect of broken mechanics or the idea that these mechanics are in fact their vision for good gameplay makes it so hard.

Sanctum74

It's unfortunate to keep seeing these same posts pop up for years and still nothing is done to fix the performance issues. Many of these people don't know how great eso used to be when it ran smoothly and was packed with many more people than are currently playing.

I guess I've just accepted defeat and am trying to enjoy what little is left until something better comes along in the fall. Like many others I have invested so much time and money in this game and it sucks to see it in it's current state with no hope of it ever getting fixed.

I may not have the best internet and maybe it does go through some bad internet nodes, but regardless all of the performance problems were introduced by patches and until they suck it up and recognize that then they will never fix this game.

I've made so many great friends playing, but most of them are gone because of these problems and the new ones don't hang around too long either. Oh well at least we have the forums so we have something to do in between disconnects.

Malic

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

Im not amazed at all, ZOS has been really crappy about server issues and PVP in general. This event is as clear a signal as ever they dont give 2 poops about PVP. There is no way, given all the server issues and reports over the last month you go forward with an event like this if you cared about your players have an actual positive experience.

I wouldn't go that far, they did infact open up more PVP campaigns to try and alleviate the que issues.

The problem is they simply do not have the hardware server capcity to handle this. Under "normal PVP conditions" outside of this event they need 2-3x times the server hardware they have right now simply due to how poorly the Server and Client side software scales. If you cna't fix the scaling issues in the software, then you simply bring more number crunching power to bare on it till you have enough. (This is what AMD, Intel, and Nvidia do with new generations of hardware they just make it more powerful so poor optimizations on older stuff matters less and less)

Simply put they need to either get a better server hosting providor with more powerful hardware, or they simply need to rent more servers and simply get more hardware resources.

The Devs usually don't have much control over this, money expenditures are usually decided elsewhere by suits or different people. All the devs can do is ask, it won't be them writing the checks to get it bought.

Maybe this event will convince the suits they need to invest in more server and hardware...lets hope.

You are a far more generous person than I am, so lets meet in the middle.

I agree they opened up more campaigns, thats a good thing and they should get credit for it.

You acknowledge they have a short coming in hardware, I wouldnt know but Im willing to concede that point as well.

Are you willing to concede that, if your supposition is true that by having this event is minimally suspect in terms of management? Moderately apathetic toward the PvP community? Or at worst sinister to the point of actually not caring about players having a positive experience?

Given your rational, again you make fair points, wouldnt you have to concede one of the points above?

OC_Justice

McCracken79 wrote: »

5. Communicate better with your player base. Ignoring problems creates more problems. Be open about issues, explain what is happening, why it’s happening and what you plan on doing to resolve it.

zOS need to start working on their infrastructure more and start focusing on polishing their game. When you have events, they need to work, period. There’s always going to be issues but when these issues just continue to keep happening for months, years on end with no resolve it creates a hostile environment that is happening right now.

^^^^this^^^^
Problems are nothing more than puzzles that need to be solved. The more minds you put to work on solving the puzzles the better the solution will become. I am confident that some of the people in this community could help solve some issues if they knew exactly what was going on. Simply saying it is broken, will only get a response of then fix it.
Has ZOS ever had a tech forum where they ask the community for help, if not they should.
A player that can be empowered to take ownership in a game by helping to improve it, will always be your best salesman and staunchest ally.

Pops_ND_Irish

Another expert !

DeHei

They should really be interested in fixing nearly everything, which player discuss in Forum. Many player give priceless solutions.. in relation, they will hold more player, get new player because of a unique game and EARN MORE MONEY! Last argument should really work for every developer @ZOS.. Win win for all!

Else i dont cant understand it and just wait for a better game..

Azyle1

That's the thing though.

I love this game. I WANT this game to be successful and while I don't see myself leaving over the bugs and lag.. others will and when an MMO loses a lot of community it dies for good.

ZoS, please, we all love the game, just add stability. I would take proper working features and stability over new content any day.

VinyParsley2016

I bet, before they design this event, ZOS architects never thought about Stress Testing, or they totally have no idea what stress testing is.

Doctordarkspawn

This is a game where they have to start maintence in the middle of the night because otherwise it would take too long to complete.

That is the type of company you are dealing with. I have no faith that any plea or monitary hit they take, is going to spur them onto it. After all. Infestructure spending isn't profit.

Pops_ND_Irish

Azyle1 wrote: »

That's the thing though.

I love this game. I WANT this game to be successful and while I don't see myself leaving over the bugs and lag.. others will and when an MMO loses a lot of community it dies for good.

ZoS, please, we all love the game, just add stability. I would take proper working features and stability over new content any day.

Not enough of the community will leave. Even the ones that threaten too. What would they have to satisfy their constant whining?
All idle threats. This game will last, and the whiners will thrive. Those people do not enjoy the game, they enjoy finding fault, in their eyes.
For every whiner there are 1000's that enjoy the game.

zaria

Mz_Jo wrote: »

Well said, please let me add my thoughts,

1. This was seen ahead. It was "hidden" live server test. VERY POORLY EXECUTED. We have been told in the past ZOS has "considered" more live pvp testing. To do so under the guise of an " event" was foolish. Plus to hold an "event" with far less campaigns and pre-purchased access to Battlegrounds (with broken grouping) made the whole idea simply stated STUPID.
2. Which leads to what most of this community wants HONEST , OPEN COMMUNICATION! These forums seem poorly "manned" by ZOS pros to answer questions. HELPLESS DESK is just that "helpless" (most of the time). Why does ZOS not have Live Internet based Chat Help? Why does ZOS suggest we go to 3rd party sites for help???
3. Champion Points vs Vet Ranks. CP sounded cool, but seems to be a big thorn. Don't have the answer, but you can't keep holding back your loyal, from launch base, to satisfy a few new players. If you join an MMO late you have to expect to play catch up! As for PVP I forsee all non CP campaigns as ZOS solution over server updates / investment. Buy more hamsters please.
4. Communication! Did I mention that ? I do like the ESO Live on Twitch but why bother with chat. You only use that now for give a ways.
5. PS4 - Zenimax Gamemaster ?? Really !?! Who are they ? Been here since launch, retired, play almost everyday, never seen 1. Getting tired of loss of MY game time to self police this game! To NO purpose! Don't really want ZOS police, but if ZOS isn't going to respond to the MANY players who report, get IN HERE PLEASE.
6. Of my FREE WILL I spent a LOT of money on this game! I love this game ,I want to support this game and see it grow. ZOS , I'm tired of broken updates that just break more unforseen things in the game! Take a pause and INVEST. I'm starting to believe you're WAY under staffed and in over your heads! I personally know a lot of playerx who have willing spent 100's more like 1,000's of real money! Where is our money going?
7. Back to the PVP event! VERY LAME that ZOS is waiting until regular times to take down servers and fix them!!! OUTRAGE The WHOLE game is a mess NA! PVP/PVE WTH is this weekend going to be like?!?!?!

I'm NOT whining I'm concerned! Just PLEASE communicate with us more! Sorry for the ramble, bad habit lol. Hamster servers in the head work OT when it comes to ZOS. Twitter is NOT the preffered means of COMMUNICATION! This site IS!

THANKS if you bothered to read the ramble, agreed or not. Best of luck this weekend!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

1) this, they should simply have added overflow servers from the start, a) PvP players will play more b) Players who play a pve/ pvp mix will go pvp only, c) many pve only players will go pvp for achievement and skill leveling.
However all want an populated campain with no queue so the causuals would overflow into other campains,
Stayed in Kyne on alts so far and have an blast.
2-3) Dropping cp in PvP and keeping it in PvE might work out, PvE want an low level progression while PvP want an level playing field.
Also agree with skills, we already have it for gear, the HA does 10% of total health set only work on players not trial bosses.

4) an simpler solution is to let the client do more of the work, however verify it on server, this verification don't need to be totally real time and you don't need to verify all players. Using seeded rng both server and client should get the same result.
If too many bugs you get into the old system with all calculations on server, yes this will hit high latency players as that would generate mishmash, upside is that server is not overloaded.
Use the same system to look for bot like behavior.

itscompton

MoTeets wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

That's the thing though.

I love this game. I WANT this game to be successful and while I don't see myself leaving over the bugs and lag.. others will and when an MMO loses a lot of community it dies for good.

ZoS, please, we all love the game, just add stability. I would take proper working features and stability over new content any day.

Not enough of the community will leave. Even the ones that threaten too. What would they have to satisfy their constant whining?
All idle threats. This game will last, and the whiners will thrive. Those people do not enjoy the game, they enjoy finding fault, in their eyes.
For every whiner there are 1000's that enjoy the game.

You might check out the steam chart for ESO. Its been 60 days since the release of Morrowind on PC and the game is averaging nearly 12% less players in the second 30 days than it was the first 30 days. When more than 1 in 10 people quit playing the game one month after a major content release it's hard to put any credibility into your final statement. It's more like for every person who rightfully complains on the forums there are 1000's more who don't care that much about the game and just play something else instead. A year ago I had about 12 friends who would play everyday, only 3 still play and none on an everyday basis.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Lighting patch, Craglorn neglect, and crapeon system destroyed PvP.

It is a shadow of what it once was.

Nyghthowler

I wish they would scrap PvP and focus on PvE. I'm f'ing tired of all the nerfs to the PvE side of the game to placate a very minor but vocal sub group.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

There is NO future to this game until ZOS destoys the communication barrier between the development team and the player base.

There are too many documented examples of ZOS listening to player feedback and doing the exact opposite. Too many PTS cycles where almost everyone tells them something is a bad idea and they push it to live anyway.

ZOS is allergic to feedback, does not know how to acquire, process, act on that feedback, then test for effectiveness. This will probably take a major change in leadership or roles for this to happen.

Tandor

itscompton wrote: »

MoTeets wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

That's the thing though.

I love this game. I WANT this game to be successful and while I don't see myself leaving over the bugs and lag.. others will and when an MMO loses a lot of community it dies for good.

ZoS, please, we all love the game, just add stability. I would take proper working features and stability over new content any day.

Not enough of the community will leave. Even the ones that threaten too. What would they have to satisfy their constant whining?
All idle threats. This game will last, and the whiners will thrive. Those people do not enjoy the game, they enjoy finding fault, in their eyes.
For every whiner there are 1000's that enjoy the game.

You might check out the steam chart for ESO. Its been 60 days since the release of Morrowind on PC and the game is averaging nearly 12% less players in the second 30 days than it was the first 30 days. When more than 1 in 10 people quit playing the game one month after a major content release it's hard to put any credibility into your final statement. It's more like for every person who rightfully complains on the forums there are 1000's more who don't care that much about the game and just play something else instead. A year ago I had about 12 friends who would play everyday, only 3 still play and none on an everyday basis.

It's also hard to put any credibility into a statement that is based entirely on Steam statistics for a game that is only nominally played through Steam.

Marcd23

They won't listen while player base is still high... They only way they will listen is if they start to lose players dramatically

sadownik

@Tandor care to explain?

10 mln units sold on 3 platforms

https://steamspy.com/app/306130

over 1.2 mln of units bought on steam.

and this

http://steamcharts.com/app/306130#All

I would say pretty good group for game statistics, dont you think?

Sovjet

McCracken79 wrote: »

It really amazes me that ZOS can have a PvP holiday even and not foresee these issues. It’s either they didn’t think they would have the number of players attending the event or they knew this was going to be an issue and just ignored it. Either one is very bad. For all I know they did this on purpose to *** everyone off and to show how bad PvP really is so they could just get rid of it and focus on PvE but I am probably talking out my butt here.

It is clear they do not want to dump any more resources into PvP to correct the ridiculous number of issues/bugs that have been going on for ages. If they really cared they would have hired a third party to come in and analyze all their data to see what needs to be done to fix everything because it’s clear they have no idea what they are doing.

This game needs a major revision soon if they really want PvP to stick around. Having a PvP event where the majority of the player base cannot get in to play is a kick in the face. And those who are in have to deal with the lag induced garbage that is Cyrodiil. Here is what I believe needs to be looked at ASAP…

1. Figure out what you want to do with Champion Points. Either keep them or get rid of them. Ever since they were introduced you have balanced the game around them. Simply having non-CP campaigns and Battlegrounds without adjusting everything else makes no sense at all.

2. I know they said they either cannot do this due to game limitations or it’s just so far gone that ZOS do not want to take the time but they need to separate PvE form PvP. This can be done by adjusting skills in PvP only, having different PvP “only” skills and/or only allowing PvP sets to be worn in Cyrodiil. Yes, this would be a massive overhaul and honestly, I have no idea where I would start but I am not a developer.

3. I just do not have lag in PvP, I get it all the time in PvE as well, dungeons and especially Trials. No, my internet is fine and I play a lot of other games and MMO PvP games with no issues. Hell, sometimes my ping is over 300 when I am at my home sitting on my Emperor throne. They may have cut back on a lot of hardware where the servers just cannot keep up with everything going on. It could be with all the DLC’s and bad coding. Having new content regularly is great but pushing content out that is not tested properly just to stay on schedule is a good way to have players leave the game or unsub and stop throwing money at ZOS. Perhaps you should invest in having you netcode revamped because I truly believe that is the problem.

4. This part goes along with the netcode. I am not sure what ZOS uses to verify that a player has been using a cheat engine. Most MMO’s have an anti-cheat program that initiates when starting the game. It checks to see if any programs are open that modify memory addresses. If it finds one it stops the game from starting. Why this game does not have one just blows my mind. By using one they can push more of the games calculations onto the client side thus freeing up resources on the server. Have you looked at your CPU and video card stats when playing this game? I can have this game running and play another graphic intense game with no issues at all, well i tried that and only had sound issues

5. Communicate better with your player base. Ignoring problems creates more problems. Be open about issues, explain what is happening, why it’s happening and what you plan on doing to resolve it.

6. Finally, I know they said that this is not your regular MMO and that’s awesome that they want to steer clear from WoW and others. But for crying out loud let’s have a UI overhaul. It is absolutely horrendous. No search functions, no mini map. You know you have a great UI when you need little to no add-ons.



TL;DR

ZOS need to start working on their infrastructure more and start focusing on polishing their game. When you have events, they need to work, period. There’s always going to be issues but when these issues just continue to keep happening for months, years on end with no resolve it creates a hostile environment that is happening right now.

Even the TL;DR is too long.