How does the trait of a weapon from which a DoT or delayed damage skill was cast affect damage?

Asardes

Is there such a general rule for DoT or delayed damage skills being cast from the back bar, after bar swap or does every skill have it's own rule(s)?

Skills of particular interest to me are:
- Rearming Trap
- Endless Hail
- Razor Caltrops
- Elemental Blockade
- Scalding Rune
- Liquid Lightning
- Haunting Curse
- Twisting Path
- Eruption
- Ritual of Retribution
- Subterranean Assault / Deep Fissure
- Fletcher Infection / Growing Swarm
- Gripping Shards / Winter's Revenge

STEVIL

As i understand it, any tick of any effect responds to the stats at that moment. So, anything fired from the backbar has backbar stats at that instant. once you swap bars, that changes to front bar statistics.

this is the general rule.

but there could be what are seen as exceptions.

one example might be things like swallow soul where you get ongoing HoT based on the damage from the initial tick. So a bar swap wont change that HoT due to a damage change (damage is already done) but could change the result if healing done or healing receiveed changed with the bar swap.

i do not know if there is a difference between ticks of a "true DoT" (does x damage over y seconds) vs ticks of a "multiple-direct damage pulses" (does x per second for y seconds) or if that distinction is still valid.

Asardes

If this is true, and backbar stats like spell/weapon damage/critical and penetration only affect the 1-2 ticks of a DoT, then why do people still hunt for weapons that will always go on the back bar, ex. Maelstrom's Bow or Destruction Staff with the "best" traits?

SodanTok

Because penetration value is applied on cast.
Infused probably too when it comes to weapons with special enchantments like VMA weapons.

Also single target DoTs dont change their damage value by swapping to bar with more weapon/spell damage, but AoE dots do.

Ahzek

As a general rule of thumb, concerning penetration and outgoing skill damage stats (didnt test crit though):

Ground targeted AoE DoTs, like Elemental Wall or Endless Hail, update the outgoing damage with each individual tick, meaning it changes according to your current stats from the bar you are on while the damage happens.
Any DoTs that stick to the target, like Poison Injection, Fletcher Infection, but also Rend,will not update their outgoing damage after being cast, meaning they will only take the stats from your backbar into account, and also not get increased by stat buffs you got after casting.
Skills with delayed impact, so just about any projectile, as well as Meteor and Curse, will calculate their outgoing damage when they hit the enemy, taking the stats from the bar you're currently on.
Trap Skills, such as Fire Rune or Daedric Mines, like skills with delayed impact, calculate their outgoing damage when triggered.

Skills that combine multiple of these effects, for example Poison Injection, will have their individual components follow the respective ruels of that component, meaning: Bow bar -> PI -> wep swap to 2H -> higher impact dmg, but no change in the DoT dmg.

As a small disclaimer, I did not test all skills and it has been a few months since I did it, so just take this as a general guideline, not absolute law.
Also i didnt not extensively test HoTs, but it seems they update with every tick, regardless how they are applied. Vigor being an exception here.

@Asardes @STEVIL

Asardes

SodanTok wrote: »

Because penetration value is applied on cast.
Infused probably too when it comes to weapons with special enchantments like VMA weapons.

Also single target DoTs dont change their damage value by swapping to bar with more weapon/spell damage, but AoE dots do.

Let's take a concrete example:
I play sorcerer, Spinner's Garment front bar with sharp inferno staff, Shroud of the Lich back bar with powered restoration staff. If I cast haunting curse from the back bar, but I'm on the front bar when it actually goes off, which of the spell damage and penetration values applies to the damage? It's not a DoT but delayed damage attack, so I'm curious if the rule is different.

It seems I was getting conflicting info about those skills and I want to clarify this for good.

Biro123

STEVIL wrote: »

As i understand it, any tick of any effect responds to the stats at that moment. So, anything fired from the backbar has backbar stats at that instant. once you swap bars, that changes to front bar statistics.

this is the general rule.

but there could be what are seen as exceptions.

one example might be things like swallow soul where you get ongoing HoT based on the damage from the initial tick. So a bar swap wont change that HoT due to a damage change (damage is already done) but could change the result if healing done or healing receiveed changed with the bar swap.

i do not know if there is a difference between ticks of a "true DoT" (does x damage over y seconds) vs ticks of a "multiple-direct damage pulses" (does x per second for y seconds) or if that distinction is still valid.

I believe the exception to this is the weapon trait. As I understand it, If you have for example a defending back bar and sharpened front - and a spinners 5-piece bonus that is only active on the front - and you cast a dot from the back bar, but switch to the front for its ticks, you benefit from the spinners penetration, but NOT the sharpened penetration.

Xvorg

Ahzek wrote: »

Any DoTs that stick to the target, like Poison Injection, Fletcher Infection, but also Rend,will not update their outgoing damage after being cast, meaning they will only take the stats from your backbar into account, and also not get increased by stat buffs you got after casting.

I'm quite sure that when I use a DoT with my mageblade, everytime I go cloaked (shadowy disguise) the ticks crit always.

Ahzek

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Any DoTs that stick to the target, like Poison Injection, Fletcher Infection, but also Rend,will not update their outgoing damage after being cast, meaning they will only take the stats from your backbar into account, and also not get increased by stat buffs you got after casting.

I'm quite sure that when I use a DoT with my mageblade, everytime I go cloaked (shadowy disguise) the ticks crit always.

As i said, I did not test crit %, both since its a crapton of work if you just look at bars and because I dont think it is calculated simultaneously as the outgoing damage of the skill.
Keep in mind the outgoing damage from a skill is very different from the damage the skill actually does, basically it means the damage a skill would do purely based on stats (resource, dmg stat) without any % modifiers to dmg directly.

Rianai

As far as i can tell from some testing on my magblade:

DoTs (ground targeted, aoe and single target - doesn't matter) and delayed dmg use all stats from your current bar for dmg calculation, except penetration. I haven't tested with spinners though, so i can't tell if it only applys to penetration from the weapon trait or to penetration in general.

Xvorg

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Any DoTs that stick to the target, like Poison Injection, Fletcher Infection, but also Rend,will not update their outgoing damage after being cast, meaning they will only take the stats from your backbar into account, and also not get increased by stat buffs you got after casting.

I'm quite sure that when I use a DoT with my mageblade, everytime I go cloaked (shadowy disguise) the ticks crit always.

As i said, I did not test crit %, both since its a crapton of work if you just look at bars and because I dont think it is calculated simultaneously as the outgoing damage of the skill.
Keep in mind the outgoing damage from a skill is very different from the damage the skill actually does, basically it means the damage a skill would do purely based on stats (resource, dmg stat) without any % modifiers to dmg directly.

I'm aware the outgoing dmg is different from the dmg skill, but it's an interesting test to see if the dmg done changes in the case of cloaking. Consider that when a NB cloaks himself, his wpn and spell dmg increases a 10%

Rianai

Tested it right now with cripple and degeneration. Cloaking does not increase the dmg of those dots despite increasing spell dmg. Increasing spell dmg with Major Sorcery however does increase the dmg of those dots (even if the buff is applied after the DoT). ESO and consistency ...

Asardes

So what I found out thus far:
- single target DoTs do damage only based on the trait and stats present on the bar from which they were cast;
- AoE DoTs get their damage figures updated each time they hit based on the trait and stats on the bar you are currently on;
- Delayed damage skills get their damage calculated based on the stats and traits on the bar you are on when they go off but take into account any special gear buffs only from the bar they were cast from;
Did I get this right?

Ahzek

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Any DoTs that stick to the target, like Poison Injection, Fletcher Infection, but also Rend,will not update their outgoing damage after being cast, meaning they will only take the stats from your backbar into account, and also not get increased by stat buffs you got after casting.

I'm quite sure that when I use a DoT with my mageblade, everytime I go cloaked (shadowy disguise) the ticks crit always.

As i said, I did not test crit %, both since its a crapton of work if you just look at bars and because I dont think it is calculated simultaneously as the outgoing damage of the skill.
Keep in mind the outgoing damage from a skill is very different from the damage the skill actually does, basically it means the damage a skill would do purely based on stats (resource, dmg stat) without any % modifiers to dmg directly.

I'm aware the outgoing dmg is different from the dmg skill, but it's an interesting test to see if the dmg done changes in the case of cloaking. Consider that when a NB cloaks himself, his wpn and spell dmg increases a 10%

The wep/spelldmg buff should not affect single target DoTs after they were cast, however a khajiit/bosmer NB would still get increased dmg from the stealthy passive.

Xvorg

Rianai wrote: »

Tested it right now with cripple and degeneration. Cloaking does not increase the dmg of those dots despite increasing spell dmg. Increasing spell dmg with Major Sorcery however does increase the dmg of those dots (even if the buff is applied after the DoT). ESO and consistency ...

great, so I'm not removing entropy from my front bar xD

Now, it is time to cry in the PTS

Xvorg

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Any DoTs that stick to the target, like Poison Injection, Fletcher Infection, but also Rend,will not update their outgoing damage after being cast, meaning they will only take the stats from your backbar into account, and also not get increased by stat buffs you got after casting.

I'm quite sure that when I use a DoT with my mageblade, everytime I go cloaked (shadowy disguise) the ticks crit always.

As i said, I did not test crit %, both since its a crapton of work if you just look at bars and because I dont think it is calculated simultaneously as the outgoing damage of the skill.
Keep in mind the outgoing damage from a skill is very different from the damage the skill actually does, basically it means the damage a skill would do purely based on stats (resource, dmg stat) without any % modifiers to dmg directly.

I'm aware the outgoing dmg is different from the dmg skill, but it's an interesting test to see if the dmg done changes in the case of cloaking. Consider that when a NB cloaks himself, his wpn and spell dmg increases a 10%

The wep/spelldmg buff should not affect single target DoTs after they were cast, however a khajiit/bosmer NB would still get increased dmg from the stealthy passive.

according to @Rianai test, Major Sorc affects the ticks, but Master Assasin doesn't.

Time to cry?

theamazingx

Last time I tested, Liquid Lightning used the trait of the bar cast, Ele Blockade updated each tick to current bar trait. The majority "stick" like LL. That is at least the case for the penetration of sharp, but others who have done more thorough testing have shown that different traits behave differently.

Asardes

What about enchants, especially the arena weapons? If the traits do indeed stick to the cast bar, it means that infused will probably be the best trait for Maelstrom bow but not destro, especially after sharp gets halved, because that trait from either the back or front bar (still unclear to me) will now buff that enchant even more.

Ahzek

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Any DoTs that stick to the target, like Poison Injection, Fletcher Infection, but also Rend,will not update their outgoing damage after being cast, meaning they will only take the stats from your backbar into account, and also not get increased by stat buffs you got after casting.

I'm quite sure that when I use a DoT with my mageblade, everytime I go cloaked (shadowy disguise) the ticks crit always.

As i said, I did not test crit %, both since its a crapton of work if you just look at bars and because I dont think it is calculated simultaneously as the outgoing damage of the skill.
Keep in mind the outgoing damage from a skill is very different from the damage the skill actually does, basically it means the damage a skill would do purely based on stats (resource, dmg stat) without any % modifiers to dmg directly.

I'm aware the outgoing dmg is different from the dmg skill, but it's an interesting test to see if the dmg done changes in the case of cloaking. Consider that when a NB cloaks himself, his wpn and spell dmg increases a 10%

The wep/spelldmg buff should not affect single target DoTs after they were cast, however a khajiit/bosmer NB would still get increased dmg from the stealthy passive.

according to @Rianai test, Major Sorc affects the ticks, but Master Assasin doesn't.

Time to cry?

Why cry when we have such a beautiflul display of consistency at our hands ? But srsly. I have no idea why that works that way.

Asardes wrote: »

What about enchants, especially the arena weapons? If the traits do indeed stick to the cast bar, it means that infused will probably be the best trait for Maelstrom bow but not destro, especially after sharp gets halved, because that trait from either the back or front bar (still unclear to me) will now buff that enchant even more.

Funnily enough, apparently the buff for endless hail from your maelstrom bow gets buffed by an infused weapon on your other bar while you are on that bar. @Alcast knows more about that though.

Xvorg

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Any DoTs that stick to the target, like Poison Injection, Fletcher Infection, but also Rend,will not update their outgoing damage after being cast, meaning they will only take the stats from your backbar into account, and also not get increased by stat buffs you got after casting.

I'm quite sure that when I use a DoT with my mageblade, everytime I go cloaked (shadowy disguise) the ticks crit always.

As i said, I did not test crit %, both since its a crapton of work if you just look at bars and because I dont think it is calculated simultaneously as the outgoing damage of the skill.
Keep in mind the outgoing damage from a skill is very different from the damage the skill actually does, basically it means the damage a skill would do purely based on stats (resource, dmg stat) without any % modifiers to dmg directly.

I'm aware the outgoing dmg is different from the dmg skill, but it's an interesting test to see if the dmg done changes in the case of cloaking. Consider that when a NB cloaks himself, his wpn and spell dmg increases a 10%

The wep/spelldmg buff should not affect single target DoTs after they were cast, however a khajiit/bosmer NB would still get increased dmg from the stealthy passive.

according to @Rianai test, Major Sorc affects the ticks, but Master Assasin doesn't.

Time to cry?

Why cry when we have such a beautiflul display of consistency at our hands ? But srsly. I have no idea why that works that way.

Asardes wrote: »

What about enchants, especially the arena weapons? If the traits do indeed stick to the cast bar, it means that infused will probably be the best trait for Maelstrom bow but not destro, especially after sharp gets halved, because that trait from either the back or front bar (still unclear to me) will now buff that enchant even more.

Funnily enough, apparently the buff for endless hail from your maelstrom bow gets buffed by an infused weapon on your other bar while you are on that bar. @Alcast knows more about that though.

I have a clue.. it starts with "L" and ends with "azy developers"

SodanTok

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Any DoTs that stick to the target, like Poison Injection, Fletcher Infection, but also Rend,will not update their outgoing damage after being cast, meaning they will only take the stats from your backbar into account, and also not get increased by stat buffs you got after casting.

I'm quite sure that when I use a DoT with my mageblade, everytime I go cloaked (shadowy disguise) the ticks crit always.

As i said, I did not test crit %, both since its a crapton of work if you just look at bars and because I dont think it is calculated simultaneously as the outgoing damage of the skill.
Keep in mind the outgoing damage from a skill is very different from the damage the skill actually does, basically it means the damage a skill would do purely based on stats (resource, dmg stat) without any % modifiers to dmg directly.

I'm aware the outgoing dmg is different from the dmg skill, but it's an interesting test to see if the dmg done changes in the case of cloaking. Consider that when a NB cloaks himself, his wpn and spell dmg increases a 10%

The wep/spelldmg buff should not affect single target DoTs after they were cast, however a khajiit/bosmer NB would still get increased dmg from the stealthy passive.

according to @Rianai test, Major Sorc affects the ticks, but Master Assasin doesn't.

Time to cry?

Why cry when we have such a beautiflul display of consistency at our hands ? But srsly. I have no idea why that works that way.

Asardes wrote: »

What about enchants, especially the arena weapons? If the traits do indeed stick to the cast bar, it means that infused will probably be the best trait for Maelstrom bow but not destro, especially after sharp gets halved, because that trait from either the back or front bar (still unclear to me) will now buff that enchant even more.

Funnily enough, apparently the buff for endless hail from your maelstrom bow gets buffed by an infused weapon on your other bar while you are on that bar. Alcast knows more about that though.

So you tell me if i keep sharpened vma on my backbar bow (since it is only trait that has any meaning) then switch to some infused (with +damage glyph) weapon on front bar, my volley is sharpened, volley vma enchant is infused and the damage increases by infused +damage glyph? Meaning one volley gets effect of 3 traits at once?

Sordidfairytale

So then this should work?
Heroic slash with Infused Crusher enchantment on front bar
flip to back bar with decisive Alkosh sword for heroic slash tics?

Ahzek

SodanTok wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Any DoTs that stick to the target, like Poison Injection, Fletcher Infection, but also Rend,will not update their outgoing damage after being cast, meaning they will only take the stats from your backbar into account, and also not get increased by stat buffs you got after casting.

I'm quite sure that when I use a DoT with my mageblade, everytime I go cloaked (shadowy disguise) the ticks crit always.

As i said, I did not test crit %, both since its a crapton of work if you just look at bars and because I dont think it is calculated simultaneously as the outgoing damage of the skill.
Keep in mind the outgoing damage from a skill is very different from the damage the skill actually does, basically it means the damage a skill would do purely based on stats (resource, dmg stat) without any % modifiers to dmg directly.

I'm aware the outgoing dmg is different from the dmg skill, but it's an interesting test to see if the dmg done changes in the case of cloaking. Consider that when a NB cloaks himself, his wpn and spell dmg increases a 10%

The wep/spelldmg buff should not affect single target DoTs after they were cast, however a khajiit/bosmer NB would still get increased dmg from the stealthy passive.

according to @Rianai test, Major Sorc affects the ticks, but Master Assasin doesn't.

Time to cry?

Why cry when we have such a beautiflul display of consistency at our hands ? But srsly. I have no idea why that works that way.

Asardes wrote: »

What about enchants, especially the arena weapons? If the traits do indeed stick to the cast bar, it means that infused will probably be the best trait for Maelstrom bow but not destro, especially after sharp gets halved, because that trait from either the back or front bar (still unclear to me) will now buff that enchant even more.

Funnily enough, apparently the buff for endless hail from your maelstrom bow gets buffed by an infused weapon on your other bar while you are on that bar. Alcast knows more about that though.

So you tell me if i keep sharpened vma on my backbar bow (since it is only trait that has any meaning) then switch to some infused (with +damage glyph) weapon on front bar, my volley is sharpened, volley vma enchant is infused and the damage increases by infused +damage glyph? Meaning one volley gets effect of 3 traits at once?

Well, since volley is a AoE DoT it will update the penetration from sharp with every tick, so you wont get the benefit from having a sharp vMA bow on your backbar while you are on your mainbar. Similary the Infused mainhand wont benefit you (for volley) while you are on the bow bar.

Ahzek

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

So then this should work?
Heroic slash with Infused Crusher enchantment on front bar
flip to back bar with decisive Alkosh sword for heroic slash tics?

Should work, especially since decisive works entirely different from dmg altering weapon traits. Its more like powered, alwawys active for everything that happens while you are on that bar.

SodanTok

Ahzek wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Any DoTs that stick to the target, like Poison Injection, Fletcher Infection, but also Rend,will not update their outgoing damage after being cast, meaning they will only take the stats from your backbar into account, and also not get increased by stat buffs you got after casting.

I'm quite sure that when I use a DoT with my mageblade, everytime I go cloaked (shadowy disguise) the ticks crit always.

As i said, I did not test crit %, both since its a crapton of work if you just look at bars and because I dont think it is calculated simultaneously as the outgoing damage of the skill.
Keep in mind the outgoing damage from a skill is very different from the damage the skill actually does, basically it means the damage a skill would do purely based on stats (resource, dmg stat) without any % modifiers to dmg directly.

I'm aware the outgoing dmg is different from the dmg skill, but it's an interesting test to see if the dmg done changes in the case of cloaking. Consider that when a NB cloaks himself, his wpn and spell dmg increases a 10%

The wep/spelldmg buff should not affect single target DoTs after they were cast, however a khajiit/bosmer NB would still get increased dmg from the stealthy passive.

according to @Rianai test, Major Sorc affects the ticks, but Master Assasin doesn't.

Time to cry?

Why cry when we have such a beautiflul display of consistency at our hands ? But srsly. I have no idea why that works that way.

Asardes wrote: »

What about enchants, especially the arena weapons? If the traits do indeed stick to the cast bar, it means that infused will probably be the best trait for Maelstrom bow but not destro, especially after sharp gets halved, because that trait from either the back or front bar (still unclear to me) will now buff that enchant even more.

Funnily enough, apparently the buff for endless hail from your maelstrom bow gets buffed by an infused weapon on your other bar while you are on that bar. Alcast knows more about that though.

So you tell me if i keep sharpened vma on my backbar bow (since it is only trait that has any meaning) then switch to some infused (with +damage glyph) weapon on front bar, my volley is sharpened, volley vma enchant is infused and the damage increases by infused +damage glyph? Meaning one volley gets effect of 3 traits at once?

Well, since volley is a AoE DoT it will update the penetration from sharp with every tick, so you wont get the benefit from having a sharp vMA bow on your backbar while you are on your mainbar. Similary the Infused mainhand wont benefit you (for volley) while you are on the bow bar.

Yeah, for some reason I thought sharpened was special and did not update for AoE either. Anyway, the infused interaction really works. That is nice. With one trait you increase the damage by the infused weapon glyph and by the infused value of vma enchants. Tho feelsbadman you get same infused bonus and same weapon power glyph on 2h as on dual wield (where you get sharpened on second for example)

Asardes

SodanTok wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Any DoTs that stick to the target, like Poison Injection, Fletcher Infection, but also Rend,will not update their outgoing damage after being cast, meaning they will only take the stats from your backbar into account, and also not get increased by stat buffs you got after casting.

I'm quite sure that when I use a DoT with my mageblade, everytime I go cloaked (shadowy disguise) the ticks crit always.

As i said, I did not test crit %, both since its a crapton of work if you just look at bars and because I dont think it is calculated simultaneously as the outgoing damage of the skill.
Keep in mind the outgoing damage from a skill is very different from the damage the skill actually does, basically it means the damage a skill would do purely based on stats (resource, dmg stat) without any % modifiers to dmg directly.

I'm aware the outgoing dmg is different from the dmg skill, but it's an interesting test to see if the dmg done changes in the case of cloaking. Consider that when a NB cloaks himself, his wpn and spell dmg increases a 10%

The wep/spelldmg buff should not affect single target DoTs after they were cast, however a khajiit/bosmer NB would still get increased dmg from the stealthy passive.

according to @Rianai test, Major Sorc affects the ticks, but Master Assasin doesn't.

Time to cry?

Why cry when we have such a beautiflul display of consistency at our hands ? But srsly. I have no idea why that works that way.

Asardes wrote: »

What about enchants, especially the arena weapons? If the traits do indeed stick to the cast bar, it means that infused will probably be the best trait for Maelstrom bow but not destro, especially after sharp gets halved, because that trait from either the back or front bar (still unclear to me) will now buff that enchant even more.

Funnily enough, apparently the buff for endless hail from your maelstrom bow gets buffed by an infused weapon on your other bar while you are on that bar. Alcast knows more about that though.

So you tell me if i keep sharpened vma on my backbar bow (since it is only trait that has any meaning) then switch to some infused (with +damage glyph) weapon on front bar, my volley is sharpened, volley vma enchant is infused and the damage increases by infused +damage glyph? Meaning one volley gets effect of 3 traits at once?

Well, since volley is a AoE DoT it will update the penetration from sharp with every tick, so you wont get the benefit from having a sharp vMA bow on your backbar while you are on your mainbar. Similary the Infused mainhand wont benefit you (for volley) while you are on the bow bar.

Yeah, for some reason I thought sharpened was special and did not update for AoE either. Anyway, the infused interaction really works. That is nice. With one trait you increase the damage by the infused weapon glyph and by the infused value of vma enchants. Tho feelsbadman you get same infused bonus and same weapon power glyph on 2h as on dual wield (where you get sharpened on second for example)

So in the case of Maelstrom bow both the sharpened trait from the back bar and the infused one on the front bar apply together? Or you need to have one sharpened and one infused on the front bar to benefit from the latter?

SodanTok

Asardes wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Any DoTs that stick to the target, like Poison Injection, Fletcher Infection, but also Rend,will not update their outgoing damage after being cast, meaning they will only take the stats from your backbar into account, and also not get increased by stat buffs you got after casting.

I'm quite sure that when I use a DoT with my mageblade, everytime I go cloaked (shadowy disguise) the ticks crit always.

As i said, I did not test crit %, both since its a crapton of work if you just look at bars and because I dont think it is calculated simultaneously as the outgoing damage of the skill.
Keep in mind the outgoing damage from a skill is very different from the damage the skill actually does, basically it means the damage a skill would do purely based on stats (resource, dmg stat) without any % modifiers to dmg directly.

I'm aware the outgoing dmg is different from the dmg skill, but it's an interesting test to see if the dmg done changes in the case of cloaking. Consider that when a NB cloaks himself, his wpn and spell dmg increases a 10%

The wep/spelldmg buff should not affect single target DoTs after they were cast, however a khajiit/bosmer NB would still get increased dmg from the stealthy passive.

according to @Rianai test, Major Sorc affects the ticks, but Master Assasin doesn't.

Time to cry?

Why cry when we have such a beautiflul display of consistency at our hands ? But srsly. I have no idea why that works that way.

Asardes wrote: »

What about enchants, especially the arena weapons? If the traits do indeed stick to the cast bar, it means that infused will probably be the best trait for Maelstrom bow but not destro, especially after sharp gets halved, because that trait from either the back or front bar (still unclear to me) will now buff that enchant even more.

Funnily enough, apparently the buff for endless hail from your maelstrom bow gets buffed by an infused weapon on your other bar while you are on that bar. Alcast knows more about that though.

So you tell me if i keep sharpened vma on my backbar bow (since it is only trait that has any meaning) then switch to some infused (with +damage glyph) weapon on front bar, my volley is sharpened, volley vma enchant is infused and the damage increases by infused +damage glyph? Meaning one volley gets effect of 3 traits at once?

Well, since volley is a AoE DoT it will update the penetration from sharp with every tick, so you wont get the benefit from having a sharp vMA bow on your backbar while you are on your mainbar. Similary the Infused mainhand wont benefit you (for volley) while you are on the bow bar.

Yeah, for some reason I thought sharpened was special and did not update for AoE either. Anyway, the infused interaction really works. That is nice. With one trait you increase the damage by the infused weapon glyph and by the infused value of vma enchants. Tho feelsbadman you get same infused bonus and same weapon power glyph on 2h as on dual wield (where you get sharpened on second for example)

So in the case of Maelstrom bow both the sharpened trait from the back bar and the infused one on the front bar apply together? Or you need to have one sharpened and one infused on the front bar to benefit from the latter?

No, that was my mistaken theory. The sharpened on backbar for volley does not mean anything. Obviously you probably want to have it sharpened (or at least nirn) anyway because of poison injection or trap, but for the sake of vma volley nothing matters but infused. And since you can have infused on frontbar and for some reason it infuses backbar bow, then for the sake of volley nothing matters.

Anyway, when it comes to what trait use and stuff follow some knowledgable people with math. My thoughts are fixed on volley since it is like the most important skill for bow/bow build (well that is true for all builds I guess, but it is even more % of your dps on bow/bow)

Asardes

SodanTok wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Any DoTs that stick to the target, like Poison Injection, Fletcher Infection, but also Rend,will not update their outgoing damage after being cast, meaning they will only take the stats from your backbar into account, and also not get increased by stat buffs you got after casting.

I'm quite sure that when I use a DoT with my mageblade, everytime I go cloaked (shadowy disguise) the ticks crit always.

As i said, I did not test crit %, both since its a crapton of work if you just look at bars and because I dont think it is calculated simultaneously as the outgoing damage of the skill.
Keep in mind the outgoing damage from a skill is very different from the damage the skill actually does, basically it means the damage a skill would do purely based on stats (resource, dmg stat) without any % modifiers to dmg directly.

I'm aware the outgoing dmg is different from the dmg skill, but it's an interesting test to see if the dmg done changes in the case of cloaking. Consider that when a NB cloaks himself, his wpn and spell dmg increases a 10%

The wep/spelldmg buff should not affect single target DoTs after they were cast, however a khajiit/bosmer NB would still get increased dmg from the stealthy passive.

according to @Rianai test, Major Sorc affects the ticks, but Master Assasin doesn't.

Time to cry?

Why cry when we have such a beautiflul display of consistency at our hands ? But srsly. I have no idea why that works that way.

Asardes wrote: »

What about enchants, especially the arena weapons? If the traits do indeed stick to the cast bar, it means that infused will probably be the best trait for Maelstrom bow but not destro, especially after sharp gets halved, because that trait from either the back or front bar (still unclear to me) will now buff that enchant even more.

Funnily enough, apparently the buff for endless hail from your maelstrom bow gets buffed by an infused weapon on your other bar while you are on that bar. Alcast knows more about that though.

So you tell me if i keep sharpened vma on my backbar bow (since it is only trait that has any meaning) then switch to some infused (with +damage glyph) weapon on front bar, my volley is sharpened, volley vma enchant is infused and the damage increases by infused +damage glyph? Meaning one volley gets effect of 3 traits at once?

Well, since volley is a AoE DoT it will update the penetration from sharp with every tick, so you wont get the benefit from having a sharp vMA bow on your backbar while you are on your mainbar. Similary the Infused mainhand wont benefit you (for volley) while you are on the bow bar.

Yeah, for some reason I thought sharpened was special and did not update for AoE either. Anyway, the infused interaction really works. That is nice. With one trait you increase the damage by the infused weapon glyph and by the infused value of vma enchants. Tho feelsbadman you get same infused bonus and same weapon power glyph on 2h as on dual wield (where you get sharpened on second for example)

So in the case of Maelstrom bow both the sharpened trait from the back bar and the infused one on the front bar apply together? Or you need to have one sharpened and one infused on the front bar to benefit from the latter?

No, that was my mistaken theory. The sharpened on backbar for volley does not mean anything. Obviously you probably want to have it sharpened (or at least nirn) anyway because of poison injection or trap, but for the sake of vma volley nothing matters but infused. And since you can have infused on frontbar and for some reason it infuses backbar bow, then for the sake of volley nothing matters.

Anyway, when it comes to what trait use and stuff follow some knowledgable people with math. My thoughts are fixed on volley since it is like the most important skill for bow/bow build (well that is true for all builds I guess, but it is even more % of your dps on bow/bow)

Now I have some mild regret that I gave away that VO infused dagger to a guildie two weeks ago. But he's probably a better DD than me so it's not that bad overall