Racial Buffs in Cyrodiil PVP

ServerusEcru

I wanted to propose some unique ideas to make the lore races in ESO matter again; while also encouraging the races to play together mechanically. Let me know if you like these ideas and we can make a petition for Zos to consider our idea. Anything you want to tweak also let me know and I'll make edits.

Racial Buffs when playing with 5 or more of the same race. War Horn will be the ultimate to generate some racial buffs. Originally, I thought of 10, but 5 not only seems more realistic, but it allows a raid group to have multi races for tactical advantages and strategic pvp opportunities; even better it allows a smaller group of 5 to compete with a full raid if skillfully timed right.

1.) Breton's with 5 or more get infinite magicka and magicka resistance for 60 secs, with no magicka cost, when using War Horn ultimate in Cyrodiil.

2.) Orc's with 5 or more get rage buff where all melee does 90% more dmg and ignores 100% physical resistance, for 60 secs when using War Horn.

3.) Redguard's with 5 or more get infinite stamina and ignore 100% physical resistance while equipping a one hand and shield for 60 secs, when using War Horn.

4.) Nord's with 5 or more are 100% resistant to frost magicka and if hit with frost magicka will generate an infinite stamina buff for 60 secs, using War Horn.

5.) Dunmer with 5 or more are 100% resistant to fire magicka and if hit with fire magicka generate an infinite magicka buff for 60 secs, using War Horn.

6.) Argonian's with 5 or more are 100% resistant to poison and disease and if hit with either generate an infinite magicka and stamina buff for 60 secs, using War Horn.

7.) Altmer with 5 or more will generate a ward that makes them immune to shock dmg and all magicka dmg, with War Horn, thus if the leader of the pack is killed prematurely, all Altmer lose magicka.

8.) Bosmer with 5 or more will be able to use arrow barrage with a buff giving them infinite stamina for 60 secs. Arrows do 100% more critical dmg ignoring all physical and poison resistance.

9.) Khajiit with 5 or more if stealthed will get 100% more critical dmg on players by using Surprise attack. Attack ignores all physical and critical resistance.

10.) Imperal's with 5 or more players will get a infinite health buff in Cyrodiil for 60 secs when War Horn ultimate is used in combat. Melee dmg is also increased by 50%.

Added:

Only the group leader will be able to equip the War Horn ultimate, so that you don't get multiple spammed ultimates and there must be a cooldown for each. If the leader is killed prematurely before spell ends the group will suffer a negative effect and drain whatever was buffed; either magicka, health or stamina and it will regen slower for a period of time.

Ward: For Altmer buff the group leader will cast a ward around the radius of the group so no magicka can hurt them for 60 secs, thus if the leader is killed before the buff animation ends, the entire group will suffer negative effects (magicka will drain and regen slower)

Thoughts?

Rohamad_Ali

Infinite ?

I don't like that word in Cyrodiil .

Dracindo

I'm going to keep this simple: This sounds too OP and would make character choices even more important.

"No, you can't play a Magicka Khajiit, you'll miss out on alot of passives"

Beardimus

Would be simpler just to get rid of the any race any alliance pack, make the races mean something as they should.

I can see why the wouldn't, meta build chasers stacking an alliance etc

DeHei

This is really to strong.. especially the ork version of it.. wtf

But something like ignore 5% armor would be fine..

ServerusEcru

I hear your concerns. These are fair, thus the reason why I created this idea was to encourage us to play with our respective races together and make the game race orientated again like how all the TES games were. But not only that, stick with the lore of your race if you want these strong Buffs. But there is really no race that is OP, because each has their respective advantage and disadvantage.

For example, one person mentioned the Orc's being overpowered. Well that may be the case as the Orc's should be a problem with melee combat, thus a strategic leader will respect this and wait for that minute of slaughtering to end. Then once the Orc's are fatigued, a War Horn is blown unseen and a pack of Khajiit's annihilate them from behind with swift Suprise Attacks that they did not see coming.

ServerusEcru

Also, a solution to stop the meta stacking, so you don't get a siphony of War Horns blowing one after another, restrict the mechanic to where only one player in your group, the raid leader can equip the War Horn ultimate. This means he or she will determine your 60 secs of success. To make it more fair, if the leader is to fall prematurely, the entire group should get a negative efffect. Thoughts?

Morgul667

That would further boost big group which I dont think we need.

ServerusEcru

Morgul667 wrote: »

That would further boost big group which I dont think we need.

But the minimum is 5 players. If anything it will strengthen smaller groups that don't want to zerg. A small group of skilled five could take out a raid if timed right. This will make it more heroic!

Morgul667

ServerusEcru wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

That would further boost big group which I dont think we need.

But the minimum is 5 players. If anything it will strengthen smaller groups that don't want to zerg. A small group of skilled five could take out a raid if timed right. This will make it more heroic!

It is very unlikely that small group of 5 will all be of the same race.

So small group will not get this bonus while big group may get few bonuses at the same time

This is too strong imho

Derra

My brain wants to jump into a blender after reading this.

SodanTok

That is not how any of this work. OP skills are OP no matter how very specific the circumstances need to be or how long the CD is.
You could make skill that instantly kills 10 players but only once a day and only if 100 argonians are in one group and while it would happen maybe once in month, it would still feel bad and be totally unfair for the group that got wiped.

I would tell you this, maybe you dont want to hear it, but nobody cares about lore when it comes to PVP. Nobody wants to deal significantly less poison damage because they fight argonian or see khajiit climb keep walls because they are agile amirite.

Btw warhorn costs 250 ultimate. With some setups you can make him cost 150 ultimate. If you ever seen groups in PVP that is 100% uptimate probably even for 2 people, let alone 5.
(Oh you made most of these things 60sec... ok then ONE SINGLE person can have 100% uptime while the rest of the groups spam destro ults all day)

ServerusEcru

Morgul667 wrote: »

It is very unlikely that small group of 5 will all be of the same race.

So small group will not get this bonus while big group may get few bonuses at the same time

This is too strong imho[/quote]

That is the whole point of the idea, to get the races to play together. It will be a fun experience seeing guilds utilizing one race strategically. It also creates a new ambition and a reason to start a new toon.

Imagine all of your friends running in a small pack of Argonians, and someone unaware hits them with a meat pack. This will ignite their Buffs and create a tactical yet glorious PVP experience.

SodanTok

ServerusEcru wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

It is very unlikely that small group of 5 will all be of the same race.

So small group will not get this bonus while big group may get few bonuses at the same time

This is too strong imho

That is the whole point of the idea, to get the races to play together. It will be a fun experience seeing guilds utilizing one race strategically. It also creates a new ambition and a reason to start a new toon.

Imagine all of your friends running in a small pack of Argonians, and someone unaware hits them with a meat pack. This will ignite their Buffs and create a tactical yet glorious PVP experience.

will be a fun experience
No

Dracindo

ServerusEcru wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

It is very unlikely that small group of 5 will all be of the same race.

So small group will not get this bonus while big group may get few bonuses at the same time

This is too strong imho

That is the whole point of the idea, to get the races to play together. It will be a fun experience seeing guilds utilizing one race strategically. It also creates a new ambition and a reason to start a new toon.

Imagine all of your friends running in a small pack of Argonians, and someone unaware hits them with a meat pack. This will ignite their Buffs and create a tactical yet glorious PVP experience.

There is already a "race" for that. We call them werewolves.

ServerusEcru

Dracindo wrote: »

There is already a "race" for that. We call them werewolves.

So because we have the WW transformation we should not expand new ideas for the races in Tamriel so that they can play together? I don't see how your point is relevant to this idea. That's like saying we have orange juice so no need for grape juice.

This mechanic will not only challenge PVPers to work together strategically but it will bring back Elder Scrolls fans who appreciate the lore and the story of Cyrodill's demise.

Rohamad_Ali

What about something less OP and racial oriented like five of one race grouped together auto summons a racial pet to follow the group . Nords could have a war wolfhound for example . Argonians would get maybe a war Guar , Dunmer a bull nix and Khajiit a Senche for example ? That would not be as OP and add a little color to racial groups .

I know some Dunmer's going to say a Pet Argonian or Khajiit . I have my eye on you ...

ServerusEcru

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

What about something less OP and racial oriented like five of one race grouped together auto summons a racial pet to follow the group . Nords could have a war wolfhound for example . Argonians would get maybe a war Guar , Dunmer a bull nix and Khajiit a Senche for example ? That would not be as OP and add a little color to racial groups .

I know some Dunmer's going to say a Pet Argonian or Khajiit . I have my eye on you ...

Great idea. I still don't consider my idea OP. OP will only work if everyone else is under powered. But if every race is powered than it just becomes a balanced experience like chess.

Example...if a group of Altmer are hurting everyone with a their defensive magicka ward, it would be fun to see a group of Bosmer cut through them with arrow barrages.

You just have to figure out the other races weakness.

Gothren

Grimhallow

"get rage buff where all melee does 90% more dmg and ignores 100% physical resistance, for 60 secs "

I choked a little bit haha

I think you may be underestimating how incredibly OP that is.


One more thing to add; this kind of buff system encourages zerging, and severely punishes small group and solo play. How would you ever stand a chance as a group of 4 against a group of 5? Every single person in your group would be one shot by Orcs.

(in a group of 5 you can get unlimited uptime easily) i.e. the Imperial Zerg would be literally invincible. 60 seconds is a long time in combat.

ServerusEcru

Grimick wrote: »

"get rage buff where all melee does 90% more dmg and ignores 100% physical resistance, for 60 secs "

I choked a little bit haha

I think you may be underestimating how incredibly OP that is

Okay, while the Orc buff may be powerful I can explain how to counter it based on the other buffs mentioned. The Imperials will have infinite health buff for 60 secs. So if there is an Orc group causing havoc, the alliance can call for the Imperials or Redguard's to destroy them, since Redguard's will get infinite stamina buff for 60 secs with one hand & board and ignore physical resistance from the Orcs.

This is how the Redguard's defeated the Orc's in Tamrielic History.

Rohamad_Ali

ServerusEcru wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

What about something less OP and racial oriented like five of one race grouped together auto summons a racial pet to follow the group . Nords could have a war wolfhound for example . Argonians would get maybe a war Guar , Dunmer a bull nix and Khajiit a Senche for example ? That would not be as OP and add a little color to racial groups .

I know some Dunmer's going to say a Pet Argonian or Khajiit . I have my eye on you ...

Great idea. I still don't consider my idea OP. OP will only work if everyone else is under powered. But if every race is powered than it just becomes a balanced experience like chess.

Example...if a group of Altmer are hurting everyone with a their defensive magicka ward, it would be fun to see a group of Bosmer cut through them with arrow barrages.

You just have to figure out the other races weakness.

I understand the play / counter play in your idea and in those scenarios you are mentioning it has a check and balance system . What I'm saying is OP is groups that don't run racial setups would be at a severe disadvantage with your system . That's why I'm saying maybe look towards somethings that won't pigeon hole players into meta .

ServerusEcru

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I understand the play / counter play in your idea and in those scenarios you are mentioning it has a check and balance system . What I'm saying is OP is groups that don't run racial setups would be at a severe disadvantage with your system . That's why I'm saying maybe look towards somethings that won't pigeon hole players into meta .

I definitely see your point. I was thinking about the idea of making this one on a entirely different campaign; so those who want to keep traditional groups can play in Vivec and those who want to try the Races campaign can give it a try. Both will offer CP.

I would even like the siege to be sporadic, like make it harder to siege in this campaign.

Give it 10 days to build 20/20 sieges so players have time to prepare for defense and offensive players can defend their siege construction. If outer is taken you must roll your sieges to inner to continue. The keeps will now mean something and whoever can hold their keep the longest the player who owns that keep will be selected on a trial for Emperor. If all owners are able to hold their keeps then they will cast a vote in their respective alliance on who the Emperor selective will be. This guy will then challenge the other two selectives in a 3 way alliance battle, whoever survives the battleground like battle will walk away as Emperor.

To dispose of the Emperor you have to raze their keep and claim it.

Thoughts?

Chufu

Orc's with 5 or more get rage buff where all melee does 90% more dmg and ignores 100% physical resistance, for 60 secs when using War Horn.

Ohhhhh yes!

SodanTok

ServerusEcru wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I understand the play / counter play in your idea and in those scenarios you are mentioning it has a check and balance system . What I'm saying is OP is groups that don't run racial setups would be at a severe disadvantage with your system . That's why I'm saying maybe look towards somethings that won't pigeon hole players into meta .

I definitely see your point. I was thinking about the idea of making this one on a entirely different campaign; so those who want to keep traditional groups can play in Vivec and those who want to try the Races campaign can give it a try. Both will offer CP.

I would even like the siege to be sporadic, like make it harder to siege in this campaign.

Give it 10 days to build 20/20 sieges so players have time to prepare for defense and offensive players can defend their siege construction. If outer is taken you must roll your sieges to inner to continue. The keeps will now mean something and whoever can hold their keep the longest the player who owns that keep will be selected on a trial for Emperor. If all owners are able to hold their keeps then they will cast a vote in their respective alliance on who the Emperor selective will be. This guy will then challenge the other two selectives in a 3 way alliance battle, whoever survives the battleground like battle will walk away as Emperor.

To dispose of the Emperor you have to raze their keep and claim it.

Thoughts?

I will stop you right there. There are currently 3 maxlvl campaigns and there will never be more (unless the game magically gets huge population). SO if you at any time stop yourself and think about some grand idea that could be implemented in completly new campaign... just stop wasting your own time. There simply arent enough people to even support traditional campaigns. Nobody but EMP farmers are going to play 'special rules' campaign. Even if the idea is good (which in your case is not)

ServerusEcru

That's your opinion SodanTok. I appreciate it. I'd also like to here other opinions, those with positive energy; who think the idea could work. We could definitely use a new Emperor system. Something to slow it down and make the sieging combat feel more realistic.

And I disagree with you about there not being enough people to support a new campaign. There are plenty of people in the Zos staff and dedicated PVPers who love the Elder Scrolls. We just need to think big and not small. An idea like this will be less zergy also, because of the skill base of race buffs.

Zergs who don't respect or understand the racial concept will get wiped without real strategy and end up back in Vivec where they can spam Eye of the Storm. But this campaign idea was not created to be for those who want to raid in huge zergs, but for smaller more skilled groups. So if the population is low that is ultimately better for the server. Once people see how fun it is, I am sure more people will come.

dodgehopper_ESO

The numbers and buffs are too big. I think maybe the racial benefits already create problems. If you don't have any race any alliance you are currently stuck playing Races with classes you may not have liked to use and may not be very optimal. Race balance is already hard enough for them to get right and already tightens the window on what and how you should play. Altmer Warrior builds and Redguard Mages come to mind. In previous Elder Scroll games the racial differences were valuable but did not ultimately make you worthless as a mage or a warrior. In this game I'd argue its generally bad practice to play a Stamina Race as a mage, and vice versa. Tanking you can get away with not following this rule.

SodanTok

ServerusEcru wrote: »

That's your opinion SodanTok. I appreciate it. I'd also like to here other opinions, those with positive energy; who think the idea could work. We could definitely use a new Emperor system. Something to slow it down and make the sieging combat feel more realistic.

And I disagree with you about there not being enough people to support a new campaign. There are plenty of people in the Zos staff and dedicated PVPers who love the Elder Scrolls. We just need to think big and not small. An idea like this will be less zergy also, because of the skill base of race buffs.

Zergs who don't respect or understand the racial concept will get wiped without real strategy and end up back in Vivec where they can spam Eye of the Storm. But this campaign idea was not created to be for those who want to raid in huge zergs, but for smaller more skilled groups. So if the population is low that is ultimately better for the server. Once people see how fun it is, I am sure more people will come.

So 30 newbs running in group are zerg. but 20 organized people having 100% uptime on warhorn all running the most OP combo you created for race (or several if they synergy well) are not zerg to you.

What plenty of people are you talking about. There are real people in this game right now and they barely fill 2 big REAL campaigns. Let alone 3. Let alone another with your 'fun' rules. Not to forget you actually need to have group of players. And you actually have to run same races. That is already so limiting that I dont think you would be able to even play it as battleground...

I think you are still missing the point that everything that is good for 5 people is BETTER for 20 people. Not to mention the point that everything you suggested is OP af. Like, there is nothing in this game so OP. You could perma run destro ult and it would not be half OP as what are you suggesting. OP mechanics are not fun. Not for people using them (if they care about healthy competition) not for people facing them

Like, seriously I am listening. What is fun on facing stam sorc orc gap closing you with dawnbreaker... and that is it. You just died because he had warhorn on him. You had group too to save you? Too late. He pressed the gapcloser dawnbreaker before your group managed to warhorn and you are all dead. On the stop. In matter of 1 second.

Ever thought what would fight looked like if mag sorc breton group could have infinite magicka? It would not be fun. You would need to zerg them down. No group of 5 would ever defeat 5 magsorcs with infinite magicka. 5 magsorcs vs 5magsorcs fight would last FOREVER.

I know you wanted opinion from people that think this idea work. But that is not how opinion works Ten fools clapping foolish idea wont make it any less foolish. I am actually fool myself for wasting time here. Every other PVPer just went by this thread laughing at the idea.

Grimhallow

ServerusEcru wrote: »

That's your opinion SodanTok. I appreciate it. I'd also like to here other opinions, those with positive energy; who think the idea could work. We could definitely use a new Emperor system. Something to slow it down and make the sieging combat feel more realistic.

And I disagree with you about there not being enough people to support a new campaign. There are plenty of people in the Zos staff and dedicated PVPers who love the Elder Scrolls. We just need to think big and not small. An idea like this will be less zergy also, because of the skill base of race buffs.

Zergs who don't respect or understand the racial concept will get wiped without real strategy and end up back in Vivec where they can spam Eye of the Storm. But this campaign idea was not created to be for those who want to raid in huge zergs, but for smaller more skilled groups. So if the population is low that is ultimately better for the server. Once people see how fun it is, I am sure more people will come.

But it doesn't take much skill to win if you have infinite health- or do double damage and ignore all resistance, etc.

And sadly it would encourage zerging. I guarantee you wouldn't ever see a single group under 5 people. In fact, I am guessing that people would want to run exclusively in packs of 20, with 5 of each race. I hope you start to see how absurd it would become.

ServerusEcru

Packs of 20 with 5 of each race is part of the vision. The idea is to use racial weaknesses against each other; it will be like chess. There would have to be a cooldown though on the ultimate and only the group leader can use War Horn, so to make things fair, if you wanted to run multiple races in a group, you would have to switch crown leadership often and just have an officer for each race that is competent to deal with whatever group they are facing.

I don't see the absurdity in it. I see it being more competitive than the zerg fest out there now where factions are winning with more people. This idea not only encourages smaller groups, but it supports the lore of the Elder Scrolls and it encourages players to explore a race they would have never played before.

Dracindo

ServerusEcru wrote: »

And I disagree with you about there not being enough people to support a new campaign. There are plenty of people in the Zos staff and dedicated PVPers who love the Elder Scrolls. We just need to think big and not small. An idea like this will be less zergy also, because of the skill base of race buffs.

Honestly, every new PvP-thing that gets added doesn't really get that many new PvP'ers, it only splits up the current PvP-community.
If we had 30 campaigns for ideas like this, then we're all better off sending out duel requests in cities for our PvP needs. And then all those PvE guys will complain again, because we shouldn't duel in the middle of a major and high populated city.