A guide for ZOS for dummies : how to have a workable vet trial PUG group

drake88131

five phases:

Step one: ZOS gets out of denial phase that they don't need it.

Step two: separate out the instances into progression phases. All PUG groups must select the boss phase they want to put into. Rationale: realize most trials are too large for people that work or (like me) have kids. Also forcing people to PUG with very large groups for entire trials will be mostly unworkable and counter productive. Only problem will be a end boss issue where everyone can PUG into the final phase. This could clearly be mitigated for the crybaby elitists who want to limit gear (but shouldn't FYI) by either only giving out normal gear for end phase PUG groups or limiting end phase PUG groups to gold item drops only where they have completed all other phases (or vma). Seriously you'd be super stuck up about your game if you let the gear worries take over the fun since it's all bop anyways so I'd just let it be so people actually want to play but my point is if this is a real issue you can mitigate the issue easily.

Bonus: this will absolutely work. Maybe the first few groups will suck but you can always find a group that works on a boss or two.

Step three: allow even instances groups to decide whether they want to "progress" further with each other after each boss round. This would allow for more fun if you do find a great group. You already have the code for this going in your ready or not ready for PUG groups. People who want to remain just get re queued land quest while they wait for it to pop.

Step four: retool activity trial finder to set minimum and maximum cp searches for trials by increments of 100 up to the max.

Step five: quiet elitists!!!! Only full runs get to make the leader board. This is for awesome folks like me that just want to complete the dag gum game. YOU LITERALLY AlREADY DO THIS FOR VMA... wtf ZOS? Make it happen.

There now it's been sorted for you and you didn't even need to pay some of your incompetents to come up with the solution.

Community. What say you????

LadyNalcarya

Umm I dont quite understand your point.
Who are those elitists who want to limit your ability to obtain the gear (breaking news: it is easier to farm armor and weapon on normal)? Who is forcing you to pug vet trials? How is it related to having rl job and family?
Honestly.. trying to make it work would take more time, nerves and effort than joining a semi-casual trial guild. Veteran trials are not like vMA, where you can only rely on yourself, in trials everything depends on your group. You might be the best dd/tank/healer in the world, but if your group is bad, you'll be stuck for ages without even the slightest chance to kill the boss. I saw groups that couldnt get past the second boss of vMoL for hours, even though they were organized and prepared. And replacing people all the time wont make things any better - group synergy means a lot and if there's none, there's no chance to finsih the trial.
Communication is another huge issue when it comes to group finder pugs. There's so many people who dont understand English (even on basic level) or dont even read the chat... It would be impossible to coordinate fights, and many vet trial bosses actually require coordination, you cant just zerg rush them like you do in normal.
I'm sorry if it sounds too pessimistic. But the thing is, being stuck in a veteran trial isnt fun. Most of us cant play all day, and no one wants to waste their playtime. Yes, having a job and family is great but it is not unique; I've been playing this game for more than 2 years and only met a few hardcore nolifers, the rest were normal people with jobs, friends, families etc.
If ZOS would ever introduce trial grup finder, they should also add "pug difficulty" (basically no mechanics, or at least no oneshot mechanics)... Or "story mode". Whatever. So people who would participate those pugs wont end up embarassed and demotivated.

P.S. I dont want to sound elitist. Its all based on my experience, I've been pugging a lot, participated in many training runs etc. I'm absolutely sure that pugging vet trials like this is not going to end well. And yeah, thats not because I dont wnat you to beat them. In fact, I'd like to see more people enjoying vet content. And if you want to enjoy it, the best way is to join a friendly group. I can assure you that not all trial guilds have high requirements and are super demanding, a lot of "elitists" (at least on PC EU server) are actually really friendly.

Mojmir

PUG vet trials,makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine

drake88131

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Umm I dont quite understand your point.
Who are those elitists who want to limit your ability to obtain the gear (breaking news: it is easier to farm armor and weapon on normal)? Who is forcing you to pug vet trials? How is it related to having rl job and family?
Honestly.. trying to make it work would take more time, nerves and effort than joining a semi-casual trial guild. Veteran trials are not like vMA, where you can only rely on yourself, in trials everything depends on your group. You might be the best dd/tank/healer in the world, but if your group is bad, you'll be stuck for ages without even the slightest chance to kill the boss. I saw groups that couldnt get past the second boss of vMoL for hours, even though they were organized and prepared. And replacing people all the time wont make things any better - group synergy means a lot and if there's none, there's no chance to finsih the trial.
Communication is another huge issue when it comes to group finder pugs. There's so many people who dont understand English (even on basic level) or dont even read the chat... It would be impossible to coordinate fights, and many vet trial bosses actually require coordination, you cant just zerg rush them like you do in normal.
I'm sorry if it sounds too pessimistic. But the thing is, being stuck in a veteran trial isnt fun. Most of us cant play all day, and no one wants to waste their playtime. Yes, having a job and family is great but it is not unique; I've been playing this game for more than 2 years and only met a few hardcore nolifers, the rest were normal people with jobs, friends, families etc.
If ZOS would ever introduce trial grup finder, they should also add "pug difficulty" (basically no mechanics, or at least no oneshot mechanics)... Or "story mode". Whatever. So people who would participate those pugs wont end up embarassed and demotivated.

P.S. I dont want to sound elitist. Its all based on my experience, I've been pugging a lot, participated in many training runs etc. I'm absolutely sure that pugging vet trials like this is not going to end well. And yeah, thats not because I dont wnat you to beat them. In fact, I'd like to see more people enjoying vet content. And if you want to enjoy it, the best way is to join a friendly group. I can assure you that not all trial guilds have high requirements and are super demanding, a lot of "elitists" (at least on PC EU server) are actually really friendly.

So your solution to guys and girls literally sitting alone...by themselves...playing a solo game is,..that we be required to make friends????? (With the oddball exception here and there)....lololol. Nope nope nope. I don't like it. It's ok you're still in denial like the entire mmo industry it seems.


Seriously though. Re limiting gear...someone will complain that just pugging for last boss is annoying but meh.,,MEH!! At any rate no I disagree. I've been "core" in over three vet trial guilds now and multiple others have accepted me only to boot me when they realize my limited time frame when I can play. I've searched and even posted before looking for a trial guild I can play with on a consistent level after 11;00 pm CST. I'm in a great guild now but we've legit only played one vet trial and most left that one Bc it got too late. And some of the officers don't even like my style I'm sure where as others do...you know like in the real world...which I'm trying to escape... I disagree that one boss would be the nightmare you think it is buddy.

I also absolutely agree more customization for limitations before pugging should be enabled (cp minimums...language...mics...etc vis a vis e.g. Original gears of war multiplayer).

But meh I'm pretty much well on my way to full casual now having beaten everything else and not liking the direction the game is going. Questing can be loads of fun,.,and running in SR runs for people to help them level up is a blastXxx of course before I run a SR run I scream "Leeroy Jenkins!!!!!" Then go straight into the hundreds of enemies with my flabbergasted team following behind!

drake88131

Mojmir wrote: »

PUG vet trials,makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine

Wow!! Thanks bro!!! That's the most insightful, responsive, well reasoned, and informative comment I've ever read. Can I get an autographed copy of this comment to give to my child? I feel like you've changed my entire world view and now I know what a terrible, and stupid, person I am. Man, I will never make another recommendation for a game as I'm clearly not worthy!!! Thanks for changing my life bro!!! You rock!!!!

Drummerx04

So your suggestion is to have ZOS code with the group finder?

The same group finder that has had nothing but new and exciting bugs since it's initial release.
Bugs that included but were not limited to:

• unable to join any groups... for a week
• infinite port loops
• "Someone declined, back of the queue time"
• Ready checks... that don't seem to work
• Being kicked from the queue and being unable to requeue because you are "queued"

And you want to add in multiple queue phases and ready checks? Lol, it would be faster to recruit a pug raid from zone chat and your friends list, forge them into a new progression guild, and schedule runs... then it would be to deal with the bugs in the group finder.

LadyNalcarya

drake88131 wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Umm I dont quite understand your point.
Who are those elitists who want to limit your ability to obtain the gear (breaking news: it is easier to farm armor and weapon on normal)? Who is forcing you to pug vet trials? How is it related to having rl job and family?
Honestly.. trying to make it work would take more time, nerves and effort than joining a semi-casual trial guild. Veteran trials are not like vMA, where you can only rely on yourself, in trials everything depends on your group. You might be the best dd/tank/healer in the world, but if your group is bad, you'll be stuck for ages without even the slightest chance to kill the boss. I saw groups that couldnt get past the second boss of vMoL for hours, even though they were organized and prepared. And replacing people all the time wont make things any better - group synergy means a lot and if there's none, there's no chance to finsih the trial.
Communication is another huge issue when it comes to group finder pugs. There's so many people who dont understand English (even on basic level) or dont even read the chat... It would be impossible to coordinate fights, and many vet trial bosses actually require coordination, you cant just zerg rush them like you do in normal.
I'm sorry if it sounds too pessimistic. But the thing is, being stuck in a veteran trial isnt fun. Most of us cant play all day, and no one wants to waste their playtime. Yes, having a job and family is great but it is not unique; I've been playing this game for more than 2 years and only met a few hardcore nolifers, the rest were normal people with jobs, friends, families etc.
If ZOS would ever introduce trial grup finder, they should also add "pug difficulty" (basically no mechanics, or at least no oneshot mechanics)... Or "story mode". Whatever. So people who would participate those pugs wont end up embarassed and demotivated.

P.S. I dont want to sound elitist. Its all based on my experience, I've been pugging a lot, participated in many training runs etc. I'm absolutely sure that pugging vet trials like this is not going to end well. And yeah, thats not because I dont wnat you to beat them. In fact, I'd like to see more people enjoying vet content. And if you want to enjoy it, the best way is to join a friendly group. I can assure you that not all trial guilds have high requirements and are super demanding, a lot of "elitists" (at least on PC EU server) are actually really friendly.

So your solution to guys and girls literally sitting alone...by themselves...playing a solo game is,..that we be required to make friends????? (With the oddball exception here and there)....lololol. Nope nope nope. I don't like it. It's ok you're still in denial like the entire mmo industry it seems.


Seriously though. Re limiting gear...someone will complain that just pugging for last boss is annoying but meh.,,MEH!! At any rate no I disagree. I've been "core" in over three vet trial guilds now and multiple others have accepted me only to boot me when they realize my limited time frame when I can play. I've searched and even posted before looking for a trial guild I can play with on a consistent level after 11;00 pm CST. I'm in a great guild now but we've legit only played one vet trial and most left that one Bc it got too late. And some of the officers don't even like my style I'm sure where as others do...you know like in the real world...which I'm trying to escape... I disagree that one boss would be the nightmare you think it is buddy.

I also absolutely agree more customization for limitations before pugging should be enabled (cp minimums...language...mics...etc vis a vis e.g. Original gears of war multiplayer).

But meh I'm pretty much well on my way to full casual now having beaten everything else and not liking the direction the game is going. Questing can be loads of fun,.,and running in SR runs for people to help them level up is a blastXxx of course before I run a SR run I scream "Leeroy Jenkins!!!!!" Then go straight into the hundreds of enemies with my flabbergasted team following behind!

What? No, my solution is to make friends and beat vet trials with them. I tried it and it worked fine for me and everyone I know.
Because thats how it works. Veteran trials are designed for 12 people, and unlike 4-man dungeons, one-two good players cannot carry a clueless group.
So, you said you've already cleared vet trial. It might've seemed fairly easy with an organized group, but if you'd ever try vet trial pugging, you wouldnt be so sure. Well... First time I ever attempted a trial (back in 1.5), it was a Hel Ra pug, without any communication and experience, and people couldnt get past the first boss. In fact, they started leaving after the first wave of trash mobs. Even "lfm for vet trial, link achievement" pugs are rarely good. And I'm talking about Craglorn trials, not vMoL or vHoF.
I've been helping with vMoL training runs for a while, also joined a few vHoF progression groups lately. And it is difficult with a new group. Even if the group is always the same and there is a raid leader, everyone's on teamspeak etc. I cant imagine the struggle of people who would attempt it with a bunch of randoms. For example, in vHoF some of the encounters require using specific skill - alliance war Purge. What if all healers and tanks in your group arent able to use it? You're royally screwed. And you need more than 1 for comfortable run. Or lets talk about vMoL twins (second boss). From my experience with training runs, if theres ONE person who doesnt understand black/white aura mechanic, the group wont get past the boss. And yes, on vet its more complicated than on normal, it oneshots and people get color change quite frequently (so they need to run to another group or their group wipes). It might sound simple, but you'd be surprised how many cp 500+ players cant understand the concept. And in group finder you'll have fresh cp10 vets who never even attempted any mechanic-based dungeons. How bad would it be for them?
Also lets not forget how buggy and stupid group finder tool is. Its bugged as hell, lately I wasnt even able to use it to port a premade group (it kept porting us out immediately), I cant imagine it working with 12-man groups and with different options. Speaking of those options... Well, lest be honest: people in group finder lie about their role all the time, why wouldnt they just check all languages and experience levels to get a faster queue?

TL;DR: In my opinion, struggling isnt fun and there's no way vet trial pugs would be enjoyable and successful.

P.S. I get it, your playtime is limited. But why would you want to waste that precious time on a fight that you cant win? It will be like this, vet trials arent suited for random unorganized pugs.
And speaking of mmo industry standarts... In the most mmos, p2w is going strong. Does that mean ZOS should add it to ESO?
If you meant raid lfg, as far as I know, its not supposed to work with more diffiucult content. For example, I havent played WoW, but I've heard that lfg raids have a special, very low difficulty and you cant queue for heroic (?) raids. And as I said, that could be a possibility for ESO lfg. But veteran trials are still out of the question.

drake88131

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Umm I dont quite understand your point.
Who are those elitists who want to limit your ability to obtain the gear (breaking news: it is easier to farm armor and weapon on normal)? Who is forcing you to pug vet trials? How is it related to having rl job and family?
Honestly.. trying to make it work would take more time, nerves and effort than joining a semi-casual trial guild. Veteran trials are not like vMA, where you can only rely on yourself, in trials everything depends on your group. You might be the best dd/tank/healer in the world, but if your group is bad, you'll be stuck for ages without even the slightest chance to kill the boss. I saw groups that couldnt get past the second boss of vMoL for hours, even though they were organized and prepared. And replacing people all the time wont make things any better - group synergy means a lot and if there's none, there's no chance to finsih the trial.
Communication is another huge issue when it comes to group finder pugs. There's so many people who dont understand English (even on basic level) or dont even read the chat... It would be impossible to coordinate fights, and many vet trial bosses actually require coordination, you cant just zerg rush them like you do in normal.
I'm sorry if it sounds too pessimistic. But the thing is, being stuck in a veteran trial isnt fun. Most of us cant play all day, and no one wants to waste their playtime. Yes, having a job and family is great but it is not unique; I've been playing this game for more than 2 years and only met a few hardcore nolifers, the rest were normal people with jobs, friends, families etc.
If ZOS would ever introduce trial grup finder, they should also add "pug difficulty" (basically no mechanics, or at least no oneshot mechanics)... Or "story mode". Whatever. So people who would participate those pugs wont end up embarassed and demotivated.

P.S. I dont want to sound elitist. Its all based on my experience, I've been pugging a lot, participated in many training runs etc. I'm absolutely sure that pugging vet trials like this is not going to end well. And yeah, thats not because I dont wnat you to beat them. In fact, I'd like to see more people enjoying vet content. And if you want to enjoy it, the best way is to join a friendly group. I can assure you that not all trial guilds have high requirements and are super demanding, a lot of "elitists" (at least on PC EU server) are actually really friendly.

So your solution to guys and girls literally sitting alone...by themselves...playing a solo game is,..that we be required to make friends????? (With the oddball exception here and there)....lololol. Nope nope nope. I don't like it. It's ok you're still in denial like the entire mmo industry it seems.


Seriously though. Re limiting gear...someone will complain that just pugging for last boss is annoying but meh.,,MEH!! At any rate no I disagree. I've been "core" in over three vet trial guilds now and multiple others have accepted me only to boot me when they realize my limited time frame when I can play. I've searched and even posted before looking for a trial guild I can play with on a consistent level after 11;00 pm CST. I'm in a great guild now but we've legit only played one vet trial and most left that one Bc it got too late. And some of the officers don't even like my style I'm sure where as others do...you know like in the real world...which I'm trying to escape... I disagree that one boss would be the nightmare you think it is buddy.

I also absolutely agree more customization for limitations before pugging should be enabled (cp minimums...language...mics...etc vis a vis e.g. Original gears of war multiplayer).

But meh I'm pretty much well on my way to full casual now having beaten everything else and not liking the direction the game is going. Questing can be loads of fun,.,and running in SR runs for people to help them level up is a blastXxx of course before I run a SR run I scream "Leeroy Jenkins!!!!!" Then go straight into the hundreds of enemies with my flabbergasted team following behind!

What? No, my solution is to make friends and beat vet trials with them. I tried it and it worked fine for me and everyone I know.
Because thats how it works. Veteran trials are designed for 12 people, and unlike 4-man dungeons, one-two good players cannot carry a clueless group.
So, you said you've already cleared vet trial. It might've seemed fairly easy with an organized group, but if you'd ever try vet trial pugging, you wouldnt be so sure. Well... First time I ever attempted a trial (back in 1.5), it was a Hel Ra pug, without any communication and experience, and people couldnt get past the first boss. In fact, they started leaving after the first wave of trash mobs. Even "lfm for vet trial, link achievement" pugs are rarely good. And I'm talking about Craglorn trials, not vMoL or vHoF.
I've been helping with vMoL training runs for a while, also joined a few vHoF progression groups lately. And it is difficult with a new group. Even if the group is always the same and there is a raid leader, everyone's on teamspeak etc. I cant imagine the struggle of people who would attempt it with a bunch of randoms. For example, in vHoF some of the encounters require using specific skill - alliance war Purge. What if all healers and tanks in your group arent able to use it? You're royally screwed. And you need more than 1 for comfortable run. Or lets talk about vMoL twins (second boss). From my experience with training runs, if theres ONE person who doesnt understand black/white aura mechanic, the group wont get past the boss. And yes, on vet its more complicated than on normal, it oneshots and people get color change quite frequently (so they need to run to another group or their group wipes). It might sound simple, but you'd be surprised how many cp 500+ players cant understand the concept. And in group finder you'll have fresh cp10 vets who never even attempted any mechanic-based dungeons. How bad would it be for them?
Also lets not forget how buggy and stupid group finder tool is. Its bugged as hell, lately I wasnt even able to use it to port a premade group (it kept porting us out immediately), I cant imagine it working with 12-man groups and with different options. Speaking of those options... Well, lest be honest: people in group finder lie about their role all the time, why wouldnt they just check all languages and experience levels to get a faster queue?

TL;DR: In my opinion, struggling isnt fun and there's no way vet trial pugs would be enjoyable and successful.

P.S. I get it, your playtime is limited. But why would you want to waste that precious time on a fight that you cant win? It will be like this, vet trials arent suited for random unorganized pugs.
And speaking of mmo industry standarts... In the most mmos, p2w is going strong. Does that mean ZOS should add it to ESO?
If you meant raid lfg, as far as I know, its not supposed to work with more diffiucult content. For example, I havent played WoW, but I've heard that lfg raids have a special, very low difficulty and you cant queue for heroic (?) raids. And as I said, that could be a possibility for ESO lfg. But veteran trials are still out of the question.

I agree a full trial with a pug group would likely end in a nightmarish hell. But I'm not saying that. I'm saying PUG by bosses little by little. Did you even bother to read my post? You're rambling on and on about how hard entire trials are? I'm talking about taking it one boss at a time. if someone can't be bothered to look up mechanics for one fight or listen when porting in then sure it will be a problem but you would be amazed what a disclaimer before porting in or setting up parameters would do. You're just wrong here I think. Agree to disagree.

LadyNalcarya

drake88131 wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Umm I dont quite understand your point.
Who are those elitists who want to limit your ability to obtain the gear (breaking news: it is easier to farm armor and weapon on normal)? Who is forcing you to pug vet trials? How is it related to having rl job and family?
Honestly.. trying to make it work would take more time, nerves and effort than joining a semi-casual trial guild. Veteran trials are not like vMA, where you can only rely on yourself, in trials everything depends on your group. You might be the best dd/tank/healer in the world, but if your group is bad, you'll be stuck for ages without even the slightest chance to kill the boss. I saw groups that couldnt get past the second boss of vMoL for hours, even though they were organized and prepared. And replacing people all the time wont make things any better - group synergy means a lot and if there's none, there's no chance to finsih the trial.
Communication is another huge issue when it comes to group finder pugs. There's so many people who dont understand English (even on basic level) or dont even read the chat... It would be impossible to coordinate fights, and many vet trial bosses actually require coordination, you cant just zerg rush them like you do in normal.
I'm sorry if it sounds too pessimistic. But the thing is, being stuck in a veteran trial isnt fun. Most of us cant play all day, and no one wants to waste their playtime. Yes, having a job and family is great but it is not unique; I've been playing this game for more than 2 years and only met a few hardcore nolifers, the rest were normal people with jobs, friends, families etc.
If ZOS would ever introduce trial grup finder, they should also add "pug difficulty" (basically no mechanics, or at least no oneshot mechanics)... Or "story mode". Whatever. So people who would participate those pugs wont end up embarassed and demotivated.

P.S. I dont want to sound elitist. Its all based on my experience, I've been pugging a lot, participated in many training runs etc. I'm absolutely sure that pugging vet trials like this is not going to end well. And yeah, thats not because I dont wnat you to beat them. In fact, I'd like to see more people enjoying vet content. And if you want to enjoy it, the best way is to join a friendly group. I can assure you that not all trial guilds have high requirements and are super demanding, a lot of "elitists" (at least on PC EU server) are actually really friendly.

So your solution to guys and girls literally sitting alone...by themselves...playing a solo game is,..that we be required to make friends????? (With the oddball exception here and there)....lololol. Nope nope nope. I don't like it. It's ok you're still in denial like the entire mmo industry it seems.


Seriously though. Re limiting gear...someone will complain that just pugging for last boss is annoying but meh.,,MEH!! At any rate no I disagree. I've been "core" in over three vet trial guilds now and multiple others have accepted me only to boot me when they realize my limited time frame when I can play. I've searched and even posted before looking for a trial guild I can play with on a consistent level after 11;00 pm CST. I'm in a great guild now but we've legit only played one vet trial and most left that one Bc it got too late. And some of the officers don't even like my style I'm sure where as others do...you know like in the real world...which I'm trying to escape... I disagree that one boss would be the nightmare you think it is buddy.

I also absolutely agree more customization for limitations before pugging should be enabled (cp minimums...language...mics...etc vis a vis e.g. Original gears of war multiplayer).

But meh I'm pretty much well on my way to full casual now having beaten everything else and not liking the direction the game is going. Questing can be loads of fun,.,and running in SR runs for people to help them level up is a blastXxx of course before I run a SR run I scream "Leeroy Jenkins!!!!!" Then go straight into the hundreds of enemies with my flabbergasted team following behind!

What? No, my solution is to make friends and beat vet trials with them. I tried it and it worked fine for me and everyone I know.
Because thats how it works. Veteran trials are designed for 12 people, and unlike 4-man dungeons, one-two good players cannot carry a clueless group.
So, you said you've already cleared vet trial. It might've seemed fairly easy with an organized group, but if you'd ever try vet trial pugging, you wouldnt be so sure. Well... First time I ever attempted a trial (back in 1.5), it was a Hel Ra pug, without any communication and experience, and people couldnt get past the first boss. In fact, they started leaving after the first wave of trash mobs. Even "lfm for vet trial, link achievement" pugs are rarely good. And I'm talking about Craglorn trials, not vMoL or vHoF.
I've been helping with vMoL training runs for a while, also joined a few vHoF progression groups lately. And it is difficult with a new group. Even if the group is always the same and there is a raid leader, everyone's on teamspeak etc. I cant imagine the struggle of people who would attempt it with a bunch of randoms. For example, in vHoF some of the encounters require using specific skill - alliance war Purge. What if all healers and tanks in your group arent able to use it? You're royally screwed. And you need more than 1 for comfortable run. Or lets talk about vMoL twins (second boss). From my experience with training runs, if theres ONE person who doesnt understand black/white aura mechanic, the group wont get past the boss. And yes, on vet its more complicated than on normal, it oneshots and people get color change quite frequently (so they need to run to another group or their group wipes). It might sound simple, but you'd be surprised how many cp 500+ players cant understand the concept. And in group finder you'll have fresh cp10 vets who never even attempted any mechanic-based dungeons. How bad would it be for them?
Also lets not forget how buggy and stupid group finder tool is. Its bugged as hell, lately I wasnt even able to use it to port a premade group (it kept porting us out immediately), I cant imagine it working with 12-man groups and with different options. Speaking of those options... Well, lest be honest: people in group finder lie about their role all the time, why wouldnt they just check all languages and experience levels to get a faster queue?

TL;DR: In my opinion, struggling isnt fun and there's no way vet trial pugs would be enjoyable and successful.

P.S. I get it, your playtime is limited. But why would you want to waste that precious time on a fight that you cant win? It will be like this, vet trials arent suited for random unorganized pugs.
And speaking of mmo industry standarts... In the most mmos, p2w is going strong. Does that mean ZOS should add it to ESO?
If you meant raid lfg, as far as I know, its not supposed to work with more diffiucult content. For example, I havent played WoW, but I've heard that lfg raids have a special, very low difficulty and you cant queue for heroic (?) raids. And as I said, that could be a possibility for ESO lfg. But veteran trials are still out of the question.

I agree a full trial with a pug group would likely end in a nightmarish hell. But I'm not saying that. I'm saying PUG by bosses little by little. Did you even bother to read my post? You're rambling on and on about how hard entire trials are? I'm talking about taking it one boss at a time. if someone can't be bothered to look up mechanics for one fight or listen when porting in then sure it will be a problem but you would be amazed what a disclaimer before porting in or setting up parameters would do. You're just wrong here I think. Agree to disagree.

Have you read MY post? I said that you would be stuck on ONE boss for HOURS. I saw that happening, its not my assumptions or something.
Disclaimer doesnt do anything, you'd be amazed how many people outright ignore things like this. A lot of people in group finder dont even read the group chat, and you're assuming they would look up the strategy? Oh well...

LadyNalcarya

You might think I'm saying this out of spite or that I just want to prevent you from getting trial gear (where did you get that idea, anyway?), but there's a very easy way to prove who is right.
Just try to pug vMoL or vHoF in zone chat. You dont have to finish it, if you will be able to kill one boss with a completely random group with no cp/gear/build requirements, that would mean you're right and I'm wrong.
The first boss of vMoL isnt even hard mechanic-wise.

drake88131

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

You might think I'm saying this out of spite or that I just want to prevent you from getting trial gear (where did you get that idea, anyway?), but there's a very easy way to prove who is right.
Just try to pug vMoL or vHoF in zone chat. You dont have to finish it, if you will be able to kill one boss with a completely random group with no cp/gear/build requirements, that would mean you're right and I'm wrong.
The first boss of vMoL isnt even hard mechanic-wise.

Yeah right because that's why people PUG because the zone chat is so useful? Also it's not THAT hard to cleanse and watch out for five huge columns bro!!!! But yeah let me waste my Sunday trying to prove a point so whatever you win I'm bored.

LadyNalcarya

drake88131 wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

You might think I'm saying this out of spite or that I just want to prevent you from getting trial gear (where did you get that idea, anyway?), but there's a very easy way to prove who is right.
Just try to pug vMoL or vHoF in zone chat. You dont have to finish it, if you will be able to kill one boss with a completely random group with no cp/gear/build requirements, that would mean you're right and I'm wrong.
The first boss of vMoL isnt even hard mechanic-wise.

Yeah right because that's why people PUG because the zone chat is so useful? Also it's not THAT hard to cleanse and watch out for five huge columns bro!!!! But yeah let me waste my Sunday trying to prove a point so whatever you win I'm bored.

Why do you think that group finder pug would be any better? At least with zone pug you'll probably have actual healers and tanks (which is not guaranteed in group finder).
Dont me wrong, I'm just trying to understand your logic. So you're not willing to do that to prove your point, but you're willing to do that if ZOS would introduce vet lfr? The result will be the same, you dont have to wait.

P.S. Yes, mechanics arent that difficult... On paper. Yet in the actual game, a lot of people cant even block in time or avoid red circles on the ground. So even if ZOS introduces lfr, it should be like in WoW - scaled to the easiest difficulty, to avoid negative experiences.

tommalmm

Not every player has to complete all content in the game. Simple as that. Trials usually need some coordination (or at least some prior knowledge of mechanics and placement). It's not so demanding on normal (you can pug normal trials if everyone knows what to do and you don't need any kind of voice communication for this). For vet trials though, such scenario is not really possible unless you're in a group that has been playing together for so long, they just don't need to communicate (but then, why would you need to PUG?).

PS. Example why knowledge, communication and coordination is so important: our guild used to wipe (like in not completing at all, not just wipe a few times and carry on) in normal trials with 300-400cp average... and we had TS/discord as mandatory for participants. There were like 2-3 people with trials/vtrials experience on average. Now, three or four months later, vet trials aint really hard at all, just giving an example.

Now imagine a PUG, with 50%+ of players not having a clue about mechanics, no way to communicate realiably whatsoever (text chat is fine between fights, not during fights). Sure there is a voice chat (that 95% players do not use at all) on consoles, but it's just one platform. Would you really like to wipe for hours with PUG? Would that really be so much fun?

Sure, one experienced person can explain everything and (if people are willing to listen) you might even be able to complete a particular fight. The problem is, the next time you're likely to end up in another inexperienced group... and wipe some more. So unless there is a simplified "story mode" (that wouldn't be such a bad idea), LFG for trials is not really feasible.

And quite off topic: actually demographics of any mmo show, that MOST people are having jobs and families, average age of a player is (depending on game) high twenties to low thirties. Think about it for a while. You're not special in any way. These people do find time to play when it's most comfortable for the majority. It's quite weird to expect groups to change their schedule to match single person. It's just easier to replace the person. I miss most of trials myself (starting 18-19 CET most of the time in my guilds), but I easily manage to complete a trial once a week on Saturday or Sunday. It's 40 minutes, to an hour tops (including preparations).

eso_nya

drake88131 wrote: »

Seriously you'd be super stuck up about your game if you let the gear worries take over the fun since it's all bop anyways

Don't do vet trials if u r not worried about your gear being ~1% less efficient than it could.
Imo the only reason to do vet trials, is to get normal trial gear jewels in gold, so u can do vet trials faster. And if u do them really fast, u get much epeen. And a fugly skin, which makes u look less fugly, when u r a vampire. And as u r only a vampire to get much epeen from vettrials, its a somewhat fair tradeoff.

Kozai

drake88131 wrote: »

I agree a full trial with a pug group would likely end in a nightmarish hell. But I'm not saying that. I'm saying PUG by bosses little by little. Did you even bother to read my post? You're rambling on and on about how hard entire trials are? I'm talking about taking it one boss at a time. if someone can't be bothered to look up mechanics for one fight or listen when porting in then sure it will be a problem but you would be amazed what a disclaimer before porting in or setting up parameters would do. You're just wrong here I think. Agree to disagree.

The one vet trial I was in I got recruited to help with dps by the guild leader of a guild I was in. She was with a group from another guild she is in that does vet trials routinely, she was trying to learn the mechanics to run them in our guild. They had gotten stuck at the 2nd or 3rd boss in the trial, had a few people run out of time and leave, so I and a few others joined. There was full TS to coordinate.

We tried for 2 hours to beat that boss, wiping every time, before giving up. At least 2/3 of that group was used to working together to do vet trials, and I think everyone else got recruited by someone who knew them at least, and we couldn't beat that boss in 2 hours, with someone experienced with the mechanics giving specific instructions. I'm not optimistic that a PUG group could have done it, ever. I've tanked more than one normal, non-DLC dungeon where the PUG stalled out on a boss and had to give up, PUGs can be a real mix. . .

SoLooney

No thank you.

First off, ZOS already sucks at fixing the queue for dungeons for 4 darn people. Now you want them to try and set up queues for normal trials, heck even vet trials where the pass rate is abysmal? Theres a reason to join vet trial guilds, theyre organized, tanks and healers for the most part have experience and know what they are doing, and dps has been checked. That is all I need, crappy tanks and healers or even worse, fake tanks and healers. On top of crappy dps who can't even break past 20k, you'll be in the vet trial forever or fail miserable with people rage quitting.

No just no, even if it gets implemented, will still stick with my trial guilds