does anyone else not like minimum required players mechanics?

Wing

or is it just me?

like the tiles that require multiple people to stand on or no progress.

or boss mechanics where they regen health and you either cannot prevent it alone or it just heals back so much more then one person can do.

or the "enrage" mechanic that I feel is the bane of game existence these days (it pretty much forces a DPS race and negates other playstyles)

or attacks or bosses that ignore established game mechanics just for the sake of difficulty (the classic cannot be taunted ones are a big example)



I would like to add I'm not saying "the game is to hard wahhhh!" or "I want to be able to solo EVERYTHING!" its just that I enjoy challenging myself to what I can solo as a bruiser character (mostly tanky but passable dps) and a lot of the time is I fail its simply because I had no chance of winning in the first place.

the two recent examples I can give that seem like you should be able to solo if your good enough was one of the world bosses in vvardenfell and one of the walking banner daedra in the IC sewers:


-world boss, the one center south of the map, I think its a hunger if I recall correctly, has an attack where it stuns you and sucks out your health, the stun is unbreakable (ignoring established game mechanics) and can only be broken by having another person bash him, during this stun he regens a significant amount of his health (if your fighting him solo enough to heal back to full many times over) this attack is simply part of his rotation.

-banner daedra in the IC sewers (ima preface this by saying I have a rule when I go into the sewers with others, if we encounter trouble I they have orders to RUN and I will buy them as much time as possible while I sell my life dearly to buy them time) the one that trolls around emperor leodvic (or whatev) was accidently pulled so I told them to run for the base and charged in with the taunt. he eventually throws up a damage shield and sits there channeling a heal as long as the damage shield stays up and can only be stopped by bringing down the shield and then bashing him. if you are solo this is more then enough time to heal any damage you could do to him many times over before you finally bash him to stop.



maybe this is all fine and is the way it should be, but I truly miss the days where if you were tanky enough to survive and were good enough you could get into a prolonged endurance battle with bosses, it could take half an hour+ at times and one wrong move meant death, but if you knew your stuff you could do it, those endurance fights were so fun and rewarding. (and one of the reasons I HATE enrage mechanics with such a passion) and I hate to see them go :C

Turelus

I'm a mix on it.

I think in group dungeons it's fine as the point of that content is to actually group up. World bosses and how Craglorn was previously I didn't like because it was content which could be done solo apart from the requirement of four people to activate a thing.

Wing

Turelus wrote: »

-snip- Craglorn was previously I didn't like because it was content which could be done solo apart from the requirement of four people to activate a thing.

oh I know a lot of people were really happy with that change, but that was a big example of something that was incredibly easy to solo but then had such a generic "no more people required" mechanic just for the sake of having it.

Beardimus

It's an MMO. I think its healthy to need to group / engage / join guilds etc.

I intended to play the game solo or with a real life mate. Things like this, the need to trade etc has lead to me joining many guilds and making loads of in game friends. So i think it's a good thing.

Elsonso

I think it is reasonable to have higher end bosses that need more people to take down. There needs to be content that cannot be done solo, and the two you used an sxample are using a mechanic that also seems reasonable.

Tasear

I like it because it's mmo, but I don't like enrage mechanics

Magdalina

I think the "so you need 12 people exactly JUST to stand on pads" mechanics are kind of silly(since their only purpose is artificially restricting the number of people able to proceed in an instance, regardless of actual fights) but actual combat mechanics are different. You can make some really interesting mechanics if you're basing them on several people's participation rather than just one and that is something I do enjoy. It does prevent soloing certain fights for most/all builds but that's not a huge price to pay for an interesting fight imo. I like mechanics that make your group work together and have to rely on each other in order to succeed, they're the ones pushing your group to the extreme as a group and that's something I enjoy greatly.

Wing

lordrichter wrote: »

I think it is reasonable to have higher end bosses that need more people to take down. There needs to be content that cannot be done solo, and the two you used an sxample are using a mechanic that also seems reasonable.

I can understand that.

I come from DDO so many years ago and it had a pretty colossal skill and build gap, as its based of DnD so you could have any combination of 20 levels from up to 3 classes of which there were at least 12? last time I was there.

then feats, destines, races, etc. and thats before gear. its truly the only game I know where you could simply cripple your character to the point of not being able to do anything.

if anyone else played they would probably know a player by the name of Shatan who was famous for solo ing just about everything in the game (raids as well) if they had mechanics that required 2 or more people he would bring in a guildies (he was a member of Over Raided that was one of the smallest elite guilds in the game) in order to pass the mechanic.

this was not easy, it took him hours in some cases, bosses obviously have health scaled for fighting 12 people so it was always endurance while dealing with any mechanics.

it will ALWAYS be faster with more people, and never was there a benefit to soling (especially as you deny loot drops that you could otherwise get)


but the point, he and Over Raided were so good that they had scheduled pug raid days and times (you could find em on the forums, same times every week, first come first serve) anyone could join, they would bring enough members to go through the raids by themselves and essentially carry all the other players to teach them the raid.

I always tried to get in on them and were some of the most fun times I ever had raiding.


this is an example of how just because something is able to be solo'd does not mean that it forgoes the group or MMO mentality to achieve it, you can do both ^_^ and that sometimes it even promotes it, as good players might be more willing to bring pugs along to Sherpa if they know they can essentially do it themselves and don't need to rely on the for critical tasks.

Wing

Magdalina wrote: »

I think the "so you need 12 people exactly JUST to stand on pads" mechanics are kind of silly(since their only purpose is artificially restricting the number of people able to proceed in an instance, regardless of actual fights) but actual combat mechanics are different.

perfect term, bravo.

"artificially" creating the need for people rather then through combat mechanics is a perfect sum up.

Magdalina

Wing wrote: »

if anyone else played they would probably know a player by the name of Shatan who was famous for solo ing just about everything in the game (raids as well) if they had mechanics that required 2 or more people he would bring in a guildies (he was a member of Over Raided that was one of the smallest elite guilds in the game) in order to pass the mechanic.

this was not easy, it took him hours in some cases, bosses obviously have health scaled for fighting 12 people so it was always endurance while dealing with any mechanics.

it will ALWAYS be faster with more people, and never was there a benefit to soling (especially as you deny loot drops that you could otherwise get)


this is an example of how just because something is able to be solo'd does not mean that it forgoes the group or MMO mentality to achieve it, you can do both ^_^ and that sometimes it even promotes it, as good players might be more willing to bring pugs along to Sherpa if they know they can essentially do it themselves and don't need to rely on the for critical tasks.

This reminds me of @Vaoh He pretty much does the same in ESO far as soloing goes.

Betsararie

yo?

FrancisCrawford

Good comments.

An important way to get challenges at the level of difficulty you want is to solo or otherwise underman group content. Being artificially excluded from doing that is annoying.

Doctordarkspawn

Beardimus wrote: »

It's an MMO. I think its healthy to need to group / engage / join guilds etc.

I intended to play the game solo or with a real life mate. Things like this, the need to trade etc has lead to me joining many guilds and making loads of in game friends. So i think it's a good thing.

"Healthy".

Alll well and good but giving people the ability to go without is also healthy to a MMO's enjoyment and success.

Chadak

I like that there's a great deal in the game that's soloable. I'm perfectly happy to play with the small group of RL friends I regularly do dungeons, quest and farm things with, but there aren't nearly enough of us to do trials and we all find it weird to awkward to outright uncomfortable to bring strangers off the internet into our discord.

We talk about a lot of personal life stuff. We talk about eachothers' jobs and families and crap going on in our lives, like actual friends do. When we have to coordinate in voice with strangers off the internet, its usually a lot of silence because none of us are interested in talking about the things we'd otherwise want to be talking about with some stranger.

We sometimes have a fun time chatting with strangers about game-related stuff, but a full three of the six of us still find it uncomfortable to let anyone outside our RL group have access to the discord, to just pop in and out whenever they please.

I find it somewhat ironic that MMO's are not, in fact, designed to be ideally played with friends. They're designed to be ideally played by a bunch of people that probably never meet, see or will ever actually know most, or any, of the people they're supposed to coordinate, lockstep and spend a significant amount of their gametime effort playing with.

Chufu

Wing wrote: »

-world boss, the one center south of the map, I think its a hunger if I recall correctly, has an attack where it stuns you and sucks out your health, the stun is unbreakable (ignoring established game mechanics) and can only be broken by having another person bash him, during this stun he regens a significant amount of his health (if your fighting him solo enough to heal back to full many times over) this attack is simply part of his rotation.

But this is not true, you can break-free, when the hunger stuns you and steals you live. Tried that out. Another player can bash him, but that's another option. Indeed, you need enough stamina for breaking free.

I understand the fact that you want to do bosses solo, but why do we playing "The Elder Scrolls Online"? Normally everyone wants to do the content together and not alone. So the bosses and group content has to be harder than for one person.

We had a tine in ESO where everything it's very hard: Most of you remember the "veteran" times, where you got killed many times by Dothia. But a lot of people disliked that, so they changed it to the status now. In my opinion that is okay. You should not be able to do everything alone, but if you are a freak, you can.

There are a lot of videos how several classes do dungeons or other group content alone, so it is possible.

I understand that you like challenges in the game, but the hardest challenge is to find friends and guild members who want to go together for grabbing honor and gold.

zaria

Magdalina wrote: »

I think the "so you need 12 people exactly JUST to stand on pads" mechanics are kind of silly(since their only purpose is artificially restricting the number of people able to proceed in an instance, regardless of actual fights) but actual combat mechanics are different. You can make some really interesting mechanics if you're basing them on several people's participation rather than just one and that is something I do enjoy. It does prevent soloing certain fights for most/all builds but that's not a huge price to pay for an interesting fight imo. I like mechanics that make your group work together and have to rely on each other in order to succeed, they're the ones pushing your group to the extreme as a group and that's something I enjoy greatly.

Yes, the AA restriction is stupid, an boss mechanic like fungal 2 who remove player from fight for some time is part of the challenge.
On the other hand I don't like timed enrages, mechanisms who make the fight harder over time is ok, but an complex fight is already harder with low dps as the long fight increases the chance of screwing it up and causing an wipe.

Doing a lot of pugs and also don't like the lock door then fight start, IcP has lots of them and go-go tanks has caused lots of wipes

Magdalina

Chufu wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

-world boss, the one center south of the map, I think its a hunger if I recall correctly, has an attack where it stuns you and sucks out your health, the stun is unbreakable (ignoring established game mechanics) and can only be broken by having another person bash him, during this stun he regens a significant amount of his health (if your fighting him solo enough to heal back to full many times over) this attack is simply part of his rotation.

But this is not true, you can break-free, when the hunger stuns you and steals you live. Tried that out. Another player can bash him, but that's another option. Indeed, you need enough stamina for breaking free.

How? I consistently cannot break that stun at 10k stamina(my full bar on magsorc). I can survive it but interrupt it without outside help? Nope. I'd ask for a video proof if you indeed can break it.

RobDaCool

MMO's have not been the same for me when they turned from RPG's to fashion shows.

Wing

Chufu wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

-world boss, the one center south of the map, I think its a hunger if I recall correctly, has an attack where it stuns you and sucks out your health, the stun is unbreakable (ignoring established game mechanics) and can only be broken by having another person bash him, during this stun he regens a significant amount of his health (if your fighting him solo enough to heal back to full many times over) this attack is simply part of his rotation.

But this is not true, you can break-free, when the hunger stuns you and steals you live. Tried that out. Another player can bash him, but that's another option. Indeed, you need enough stamina for breaking free.

I understand the fact that you want to do bosses solo, but why do we playing "The Elder Scrolls Online"? Normally everyone wants to do the content together and not alone. So the bosses and group content has to be harder than for one person.

We had a tine in ESO where everything it's very hard: Most of you remember the "veteran" times, where you got killed many times by Dothia. But a lot of people disliked that, so they changed it to the status now. In my opinion that is okay. You should not be able to do everything alone, but if you are a freak, you can.

There are a lot of videos how several classes do dungeons or other group content alone, so it is possible.

I understand that you like challenges in the game, but the hardest challenge is to find friends and guild members who want to go together for grabbing honor and gold.

as a stamina DK with around 30k ish stam I can promise you it has nothing to do with break free cost or lack of stam, you cannot break the stun (as others have stated) please post some kind of video evidence because I tried to solo it for some time and tried multiple things to deal with its un blockable / breakable stun.

and Doshia was a pain because of lack of knowledge plain and simple, nobody had ever dealt with a harvester back then, as well as the level you encountered her you lacked many tools we rely on now, vigor did not exist, you would not have had rally, for stamina builds. not any decent aoe's at that level to help deal with the orbs, as wall of ele used to be such a joke.

wanting to be able to solo something and being anti social in an mmo do not run hand in hand. most people by nature are social creatures and will group 9 times out of 10 if given the choice. however its fun to be able to attempt such a feat to challenge yourself.

I promise you that if it were possible to solo everything in the game that the amount of groups would likely not decrease and may in fact increase as group requirements would probably loosen if groups were confident that they didn't need 12 expert people to do the content.

we see this in all kinds of media, if something is hard the amount of requirements posted by individuals leading the content is ridiculous, as well as that a lot of less skilled players will simply accept that its an aspect of the game they will never partake in.

however when something is easy or able to be short manned you see more of the classic "12 and go" or "in progress, join whenever"

large boss health bars will do more to encourage grouping then mechanics that arbitrarily enforce it, if its faster / safer / more easy to group, then people will group.

Wifeaggro13

Wing wrote: »

or is it just me?

like the tiles that require multiple people to stand on or no progress.

or boss mechanics where they regen health and you either cannot prevent it alone or it just heals back so much more then one person can do.

or the "enrage" mechanic that I feel is the bane of game existence these days (it pretty much forces a DPS race and negates other playstyles)

or attacks or bosses that ignore established game mechanics just for the sake of difficulty (the classic cannot be taunted ones are a big example)



I would like to add I'm not saying "the game is to hard wahhhh!" or "I want to be able to solo EVERYTHING!" its just that I enjoy challenging myself to what I can solo as a bruiser character (mostly tanky but passable dps) and a lot of the time is I fail its simply because I had no chance of winning in the first place.

the two recent examples I can give that seem like you should be able to solo if your good enough was one of the world bosses in vvardenfell and one of the walking banner daedra in the IC sewers:


-world boss, the one center south of the map, I think its a hunger if I recall correctly, has an attack where it stuns you and sucks out your health, the stun is unbreakable (ignoring established game mechanics) and can only be broken by having another person bash him, during this stun he regens a significant amount of his health (if your fighting him solo enough to heal back to full many times over) this attack is simply part of his rotation.

-banner daedra in the IC sewers (ima preface this by saying I have a rule when I go into the sewers with others, if we encounter trouble I they have orders to RUN and I will buy them as much time as possible while I sell my life dearly to buy them time) the one that trolls around emperor leodvic (or whatev) was accidently pulled so I told them to run for the base and charged in with the taunt. he eventually throws up a damage shield and sits there channeling a heal as long as the damage shield stays up and can only be stopped by bringing down the shield and then bashing him. if you are solo this is more then enough time to heal any damage you could do to him many times over before you finally bash him to stop.



maybe this is all fine and is the way it should be, but I truly miss the days where if you were tanky enough to survive and were good enough you could get into a prolonged endurance battle with bosses, it could take half an hour+ at times and one wrong move meant death, but if you knew your stuff you could do it, those endurance fights were so fun and rewarding. (and one of the reasons I HATE enrage mechanics with such a passion) and I hate to see them go :C

i cant wait for Pantheon ..... im done with this community

Epona222

Wing wrote: »

Chufu wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

-world boss, the one center south of the map, I think its a hunger if I recall correctly, has an attack where it stuns you and sucks out your health, the stun is unbreakable (ignoring established game mechanics) and can only be broken by having another person bash him, during this stun he regens a significant amount of his health (if your fighting him solo enough to heal back to full many times over) this attack is simply part of his rotation.

But this is not true, you can break-free, when the hunger stuns you and steals you live. Tried that out. Another player can bash him, but that's another option. Indeed, you need enough stamina for breaking free.

I understand the fact that you want to do bosses solo, but why do we playing "The Elder Scrolls Online"? Normally everyone wants to do the content together and not alone. So the bosses and group content has to be harder than for one person.

We had a tine in ESO where everything it's very hard: Most of you remember the "veteran" times, where you got killed many times by Dothia. But a lot of people disliked that, so they changed it to the status now. In my opinion that is okay. You should not be able to do everything alone, but if you are a freak, you can.

There are a lot of videos how several classes do dungeons or other group content alone, so it is possible.

I understand that you like challenges in the game, but the hardest challenge is to find friends and guild members who want to go together for grabbing honor and gold.

as a stamina DK with around 30k ish stam I can promise you it has nothing to do with break free cost or lack of stam, you cannot break the stun (as others have stated) please post some kind of video evidence because I tried to solo it for some time and tried multiple things to deal with its un blockable / breakable stun.

and Doshia was a pain because of lack of knowledge plain and simple, nobody had ever dealt with a harvester back then, as well as the level you encountered her you lacked many tools we rely on now, vigor did not exist, you would not have had rally, for stamina builds. not any decent aoe's at that level to help deal with the orbs, as wall of ele used to be such a joke.

wanting to be able to solo something and being anti social in an mmo do not run hand in hand. most people by nature are social creatures and will group 9 times out of 10 if given the choice. however its fun to be able to attempt such a feat to challenge yourself.

I promise you that if it were possible to solo everything in the game that the amount of groups would likely not decrease and may in fact increase as group requirements would probably loosen if groups were confident that they didn't need 12 expert people to do the content.

we see this in all kinds of media, if something is hard the amount of requirements posted by individuals leading the content is ridiculous, as well as that a lot of less skilled players will simply accept that its an aspect of the game they will never partake in.

however when something is easy or able to be short manned you see more of the classic "12 and go" or "in progress, join whenever"

large boss health bars will do more to encourage grouping then mechanics that arbitrarily enforce it, if its faster / safer / more easy to group, then people will group.

No, Doshia was a pain back then because she was utterly horrible to fight, it had nothing to do with lack of knowledge or experience, it was because she was overtuned. She has now been nerfed several times to the point where she is undertuned and super-easy.