Automaton vs Hunding

Matt45045

I've been using the UESP Character Builder to set up my ideal character to shoot for, it has an "Effective Weapon Damage" listed which is the estimated damage that build will do that you can use to compare builds and I've found it accurate so far. I'm using Spriggan's Thorns and Kragh with Strength of the Automaton. I was just messing around with different sets and changing Automaton to Hunding's Rage actually raised the effective weapon power significantly. All of my skills that I use are affected by the Automaton set though. The Automaton set gives more weapon damage and I wouldn't think another 688 critical when I'm already at 85% would make that much of a difference. Am I overlooking something or is that 688 crit just that much better than the 129 weapon damage?

Izaki

I'm pretty sure the effective weapon damage on the Build Editor doesn't count the Automaton 5pc bonus at all.

Asardes

And next patch probably Hunding will beat Automaton on all classes since Weapon Critical 1-4p bonuses will be buffed by 55%, but not the weapon damage ones.

Asardes

Effective weapon power is probably weapon damage + max stamina/10.5

Matt45045

Asardes wrote: »

And next patch probably Hunding will beat Automaton on all classes since Weapon Critical 1-4p bonuses will be buffed by 55%, but not the weapon damage ones.

Oh wow, can you tell me when that particular patch drops?

humpalicous

Asardes wrote: »

And next patch probably Hunding will beat Automaton on all classes since Weapon Critical 1-4p bonuses will be buffed by 55%, but not the weapon damage ones.

Probably not though.

Automaton has a weapon critical bonus within the 1-4 sets, whereas Hundings has 2 weapon critical bonuses, not really that big of a difference.

Automaton offers roughly 100 more weapon damage to physical damage all in all, and since most stam build use this kind of damage the majority of the time, I see Automaton coming out on top.

Hunding's will be easier to get though since it's crafted.

Gan Xing

If you are going for Hybrid with pelinials, you would want hundings (if only i could craft jewelry). Hundings is good in general for those who don't want to farm for Automaton

Lord_Eomer

humpalicous wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

And next patch probably Hunding will beat Automaton on all classes since Weapon Critical 1-4p bonuses will be buffed by 55%, but not the weapon damage ones.

Probably not though.

Automaton has a weapon critical bonus within the 1-4 sets, whereas Hundings has 2 weapon critical bonuses, not really that big of a difference.

Automaton offers roughly 100 more weapon damage to physical damage all in all, and since most stam build use this kind of damage the majority of the time, I see Automaton coming out on top.

Hunding's will be easier to get though since it's crafted.

Automation offers 229 more physical damage as 4th piece give 129 WD

humpalicous

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

humpalicous wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

And next patch probably Hunding will beat Automaton on all classes since Weapon Critical 1-4p bonuses will be buffed by 55%, but not the weapon damage ones.

Probably not though.

Automaton has a weapon critical bonus within the 1-4 sets, whereas Hundings has 2 weapon critical bonuses, not really that big of a difference.

Automaton offers roughly 100 more weapon damage to physical damage all in all, and since most stam build use this kind of damage the majority of the time, I see Automaton coming out on top.

Hunding's will be easier to get though since it's crafted.

Automation offers 229 more physical damage as 4th piece give 139 WD

My bad, got my info mixed up, thanks for pointing it out!

Savos_Saren

The thing to remember about Automaton is this: it only effects PHYSICAL damage. Most stam build abilities have a mix of physical, poison, and disease damage. The 5th piece of Automaton will not buff abilities like a stamblade's "impale" or a stamDK's "venomous claw".

Lord_Eomer

jaburns wrote: »

The thing to remember about Automaton is this: it only effects PHYSICAL damage. Most stam build abilities have a mix of physical, poison, and disease damage. The 5th piece of Automaton will not buff abilities like a stamblade's "impale" or a stamDK's "venomous claw".

I was using this on dual wield onboth bars and definately it works well but losing endless hail and poison injection is a big dps loss!

SodanTok

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

The thing to remember about Automaton is this: it only effects PHYSICAL damage. Most stam build abilities have a mix of physical, poison, and disease damage. The 5th piece of Automaton will not buff abilities like a stamblade's "impale" or a stamDK's "venomous claw".

I was using this on dual wield onboth bars and definately it works well but losing endless hail and poison injection is a big dps loss!

Endless hail is physical.

Maybe you mean you have Automaton 5piece only on front bar, that should still affect endless hail, but you are losing trap damage and there is no reason to have automaton only on one bar anyway.

datgladiatah

In theory Automaton would be mostly effective on stamplars and stam sorcs because the only alternative damage type they use is poison arrow. All other types of damage is physical. Stam sorcs would get a massive buff on implosion too

SodanTok

datgladiatah wrote: »

In theory Automaton would be mostly effective on stamplars and stam sorcs because the only alternative damage type they use is poison arrow. All other types of damage is physical. Stam sorcs would get a massive buff on implosion too

Implosion scales with health

Morvane

Hunding is better cuz u dont need spend a whole life to farm it in divines traits etc

datgladiatah

SodanTok wrote: »

datgladiatah wrote: »

In theory Automaton would be mostly effective on stamplars and stam sorcs because the only alternative damage type they use is poison arrow. All other types of damage is physical. Stam sorcs would get a massive buff on implosion too

Implosion scales with health

Huh? Was this a recent patch? I'm finding no patch notes or any threads about this, and a tank sorc i know does far less damage with implosion than my stam sorc dps

SodanTok

datgladiatah wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

datgladiatah wrote: »

In theory Automaton would be mostly effective on stamplars and stam sorcs because the only alternative damage type they use is poison arrow. All other types of damage is physical. Stam sorcs would get a massive buff on implosion too

Implosion scales with health

Huh? Was this a recent patch? I'm finding no patch notes or any threads about this, and a tank sorc i know does far less damage with implosion than my stam sorc dps

Are you speaking about the execute passive no? Thats was probably always the case but I have not been playing since release.
Well depends on the damage modifiers. So unless your tank has twice the base HP (or maybe even fully buffed HP) than your DD sorc, then the DD sorc will do more damage with implosion.

FYI it deals (at base) half your HP as damage.

Scyantific

Automaton doesn't boost heals. Hunding does.

Lord_Eomer

SodanTok wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

The thing to remember about Automaton is this: it only effects PHYSICAL damage. Most stam build abilities have a mix of physical, poison, and disease damage. The 5th piece of Automaton will not buff abilities like a stamblade's "impale" or a stamDK's "venomous claw".

I was using this on dual wield onboth bars and definately it works well but losing endless hail and poison injection is a big dps loss!

Endless hail is physical.

Maybe you mean you have Automaton 5piece only on front bar, that should still affect endless hail, but you are losing trap damage and there is no reason to have automaton only on one bar anyway.

I was having dual wield on both bars no bow

Malmai

Automaton cant be buffed...

SodanTok

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

The thing to remember about Automaton is this: it only effects PHYSICAL damage. Most stam build abilities have a mix of physical, poison, and disease damage. The 5th piece of Automaton will not buff abilities like a stamblade's "impale" or a stamDK's "venomous claw".

I was using this on dual wield onboth bars and definately it works well but losing endless hail and poison injection is a big dps loss!

Endless hail is physical.

Maybe you mean you have Automaton 5piece only on front bar, that should still affect endless hail, but you are losing trap damage and there is no reason to have automaton only on one bar anyway.

I was having dual wield on both bars no bow

I see. Then it has nothing to do with automaton does it. That was your choice not to use bow, but you made it sound like it does not buff endless hail.

Malmai wrote: »

Automaton cant be buffed...

That is a lie.

Asardes

Regardless of class, Poison Injection still does a big chunk of your DPS in the execute phase, and being poison it's not buffed by Automaton.

Xvorg

humpalicous wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

And next patch probably Hunding will beat Automaton on all classes since Weapon Critical 1-4p bonuses will be buffed by 55%, but not the weapon damage ones.

Probably not though.

Automaton has a weapon critical bonus within the 1-4 sets, whereas Hundings has 2 weapon critical bonuses, not really that big of a difference.

Automaton offers roughly 100 more weapon damage to physical damage all in all, and since most stam build use this kind of damage the majority of the time, I see Automaton coming out on top.

Hunding's will be easier to get though since it's crafted.

Automaton does not work with a lot of skills, including:

All stamDK poison skills (including dragon claw and noxious)
All Stamblade disease skills (Including incap, killer's blade and assassin scourge)
All Poison morphs in the bow line (Poison arrow and morphs, acid spray and lethal arrow)
All stam based heals

And I believe it doesn't work with bleeding status

Asardes

Xvorg wrote: »

And I believe it doesn't work with bleeding status

Theoretically it should, since bleed damage is indeed physical, but not buffing poison and disease damage is indeed a big loss for 2/5 classes, and a slightly smaller one for the other 3.

SirCritical

jaburns wrote: »

The thing to remember about Automaton is this: it only effects PHYSICAL damage. Most stam build abilities have a mix of physical, poison, and disease damage. The 5th piece of Automaton will not buff abilities like a stamblade's "impale" or a stamDK's "venomous claw".

But it will hit hard on a stamsorc. Just have to find out something how to replace NMG, to pair this set with VO

datgladiatah

Yeah my thing is, is it really more effective for a Stamsorc than Hundings IF you take into consideration that poison arrow is not effected? 50% execution phase it's my most powerful DoT besides if I use rend. When that adds up, is the difference between the two really that meaningful?

Asardes

If you take the "effective weapon power" route, assuming you have 35K stamina and 3.5K weapon damage buffed, so about 7000 "effective weapon damage". Taking into account only the different bonuses, after HotR patch:
- Automaton will bring 225 (buffed to 270 by major brutality) weapon damage, or about 3.9% increase to your physical damage done.
- Hunding will increase you critical rating by around 4.9%.

So the bigger your critical multiplier from: minor/major force, CP spent in precise strikes, Templar passive, the more physical damage Hunding will do. So:

If none of those is present, Hunding will amp all your damage by 2.5%, while Automaton will amp your physical damage by 3.9%. So just 1.4% extra to your physical damage, with no multiplier. If 1/3 of your parse is poison/disease that sinks to 1%. Barely noticeable in practice.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Night Ma's Gaze FTW!

humpalicous

Xvorg wrote: »

humpalicous wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

And next patch probably Hunding will beat Automaton on all classes since Weapon Critical 1-4p bonuses will be buffed by 55%, but not the weapon damage ones.

Probably not though.

Automaton has a weapon critical bonus within the 1-4 sets, whereas Hundings has 2 weapon critical bonuses, not really that big of a difference.

Automaton offers roughly 100 more weapon damage to physical damage all in all, and since most stam build use this kind of damage the majority of the time, I see Automaton coming out on top.

Hunding's will be easier to get though since it's crafted.

Automaton does not work with a lot of skills, including:

All stamDK poison skills (including dragon claw and noxious)
All Stamblade disease skills (Including incap, killer's blade and assassin scourge)
All Poison morphs in the bow line (Poison arrow and morphs, acid spray and lethal arrow)
All stam based heals

And I believe it doesn't work with bleeding status

You are right.

I was more or less referring to my Stam Sorc which uses physical damage most of the time. But a DK would benefit more from Hunding's because of the poison damage, yes.

But with the Stam Sorc I'm seeing some positive results, not best in slot by any means (Two-fanged, War Machine are closer to BiS), but it works!

overclocker303b14_ESO

I tested both on PTS for a while last night and everything else equal the average DPS for both sets ended up being within 100 dps of each other (on a stam sorc).

Automaton takes a while to farm if you are going for weapons (it took me about a month to get a sharp dagger, infused dagger, and sharp bow), but you can get purple jewelry pretty easily which is nice since Hundings has no jewelry.

On another note, if your other set is Spriggans, I noticed you can ditch Spriggans and wear Automaton AND Hundings and just use the lover mundus and get about the same DPS. I'm not sure I'd go this route if you have a full TFS available, but 5 auto on the front 4 on the back + 5 Hundings and whatever monster set you like seems like it will be viable next patch (assuming you put some champion points into piercing) based on my tests.

Asardes

One thing about Spriggan is that you have a guaranteed precise dagger from a quest in Bagkorai. And precise will be better than sharpened next patch, especially if you are already running a penetration set already.