CP-enabled Battlegrounds option?

Darkmage1337

Will we ever be seeing a CP-enabled Battlegrounds option mode sometime in the future; or, will this never happen?
*The most recent incremental update created a new CP-enabled 7-day campaign (Shor) to replace the non-CP 7-day campaign (Almalexia) on PC NA. AND, the most recent incremental update created the level 10-49 non-vet Battlegrounds option. (Finally, no more level 10-49 Vvardenfell Warden newbs being placed in matches versus all CP160-geared CP630 players.)

Given that I, like many others, are homed on Shor (7-day CP) and guested on Vivec (30-day CP) for a FULL CP-enabled PvP experience. It would be ideal to have the same experience transfer over to Battlegrounds, as well. Instead of having to reanalyze PvP builds, gear, and strategy every time entering Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds (Cp-enabled vs CP-disabled). Currently, the only Battlegrounds options are non-CP and 10-49 versions.

Why has CP-enabled Battlegrounds been ignored and neglected? This mode should have been there since Day 1 of Morrowind. If not Day 1 at launch of Morrowind, CP-enabled Battlegrounds should have been included in the most recent incremental update along with the 10-49 level queue and the Battleground queue fixes and patches. 2 months has been long enough for CP-disabled Battlegrounds.

We still have to wait a whole month or so until Viper-set users receive their well-deserved nerf due to their over-performance in CP-disabled Battlegrounds (whereas this is not an issue with CP-enabled, like in Cyrodiil). Meanwhile, all this time, many players could have been playing CP-enabled Battlegrounds to match and mirror their CP-enabled PvP Cyrodiil campaigns, since Day 1. Including a CP-enabled Battlegrounds option is as easy as was including a 10-49 option from the most recent incremental update.

We are getting a new map (Arcane University) and a new game-mode (Chaos Ball) in next major update in August. BUT, is there any specific reason that a CP-enabled Battlegrounds option has been delayed, ignored, or canceled? Please communicate and update us about this topic. @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom or anyone else. Thanks.

Emma_Overload

I agree completely. CP should have been an option from day one. ZOS, when will you fix this?

altemriel

first fix the grouping tool!!

then enable CPs and allow us to choose game mode

@ZOS_RichLambert

FloppyTouch

altemriel wrote: »

first fix the grouping tool!!

then enable CPs and allow us to choose game mode

@ZOS_RichLambert

This!

turlisley

I agree. Why is CP-enabled Battlegrounds not a thing yet? What is the reasoning behind its exclusion?

@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

TheVindelator

Whether or not this should be an option is debatable, but I can think of some reasons they may have chosen not to.

- Players with full CP would crush players without it. Not such a big deal in Cyrodiil with larger numbers of players to even things out but in an even fight, it'd be the deciding factor.
- Adding more battleground modes can make for longer queues as the population is spread over more games.

Baconlad

Ok so if thats the scare then make it ONLY for top CP toons

Darkmage1337

TheVindelator wrote: »

Whether or not this should be an option is debatable, but I can think of some reasons they may have chosen not to.

- Players with full CP would crush players without it. Not such a big deal in Cyrodiil with larger numbers of players to even things out but in an even fight, it'd be the deciding factor.
- Adding more battleground modes can make for longer queues as the population is spread over more games.

You can make the same argument about Cyrodiil, yet we have 3 full separate factions that have pop-locked all CP-enabled, CP-disabled, and non-vet campaigns during prime time. With queues in the hundreds for multiple, on top of that.
The advantage that BGs have over Cyrodiil queue/population-wise is that factions don't matter. BG teams are made-up. Which decreases queues, unlike the faction pop-locks in Cyrodiil.

In addition, with the PvP event underway, we now have 4 CP-enabled Cyrodiil campaigns. Yet no CP-enabled battlegrounds queue to counter match that.
Either make PvP CP-enabled or dis-abled. Pick one. Most players prefer to use their hard-earned CP in PvP. Same with PvE. Otherwise, what was the point in the CP system in the first place anyway?

Vapirko

@Darkmage1337 I really don't think more people prefer cp. I just think that a lot of people tend toward it just because and many haven't tried no cp. actually a lot of threads have been poppping up because people are forced into the no cp campaign by this event and they end up loving it. Sure bgs can have a cp option, I've no issue with that, but I think no cp will move faster and have less infinite sustain builds. No cp works the fast paced battle that bgs was built for.

bubbygink

I'm going to have to take the opposite opinion here. No-CP is so much better. I hope ZOS never adds CP to BGs at all. Love the way the balance is now with no CP. Introduction of CP will allow for so many cheese builds and will lead to games like a team death match where nobody dies.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

bubbygink wrote: »

I'm going to have to take the opposite opinion here. No-CP is so much better. I hope ZOS never adds CP to BGs at all. Love the way the balance is now with no CP. Introduction of CP will allow for so many cheese builds and will lead to games like a team death match where nobody dies.

This. No-CP is much more skill based and is an absolute breath of fresh air from the brainless button spamming in cyrodill. Having to actually manage resources and be conscious of not having CP "crutches" is what make it so much more fun in BGs. I stand that I hope they never add CP BGs...

Darkmage1337

bubbygink wrote: »

I'm going to have to take the opposite opinion here. No-CP is so much better. I hope ZOS never adds CP to BGs at all. Love the way the balance is now with no CP. Introduction of CP will allow for so many cheese builds and will lead to games like a team death match where nobody dies.

Cheese builds? You mean the current state of non-CP BGs with every game players using proc sets like 5/5 viper & red mountain and 2/2 selene's & tremorscale that people spam, builds completely reliant on proc-based damage against practically naked, defenseless characters. Instead of actual skill and build diversity, with CP.

Darkmage1337

Vapirko wrote: »

@Darkmage1337 I really don't think more people prefer cp. I just think that a lot of people tend toward it just because and many haven't tried no cp. actually a lot of threads have been poppping up because people are forced into the no cp campaign by this event and they end up loving it. Sure bgs can have a cp option, I've no issue with that, but I think no cp will move faster and have less infinite sustain builds. No cp works the fast paced battle that bgs was built for.

CP-enabled increases build diversity and thus overall competitiveness, which is what PvP is all about. (Competition, winning, min-maxing, being the best you can be, etc.) Non-CP is extremely limiting and does not correlate to its Cyrodiil and PvE counterparts.

If it's going to be non-CP, then ZOS may as well take away our weapons and armor and have us fight naked, if you want a true quick "fair fight," because players with proc-sets will always triumph over those without, in non-CP.

It's simple math.

CP-enabled battlegrounds would raise both the ceiling and the floor, not just the ceiling. If anything, BGs matches would go faster than they currently are right now. Not slower or longer.

JWillCHS

Maybe ZoS test CP battlegrounds and saw something we didn't. But I'd like to see a weekend or a full week on CP battlegrounds to test out.

Although if CP battlegrounds increases the average length of a match it defeats one reason why I do not do Cyrodiil anymore. I came for the quick kill and deaths. The worst matches in battlegrounds right now are the deathmatches where surprisingly each team is evenly match with at least one player providing the group sustain. No one dies and the timer runs out.

I rather get completely obliterated then to sit around in a match like that...

Jitterbug

I hope so!

bubbygink

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

CP-enabled increases build diversity and thus overall competitiveness, which is what PvP is all about. (Competition, winning, min-maxing, being the best you can be, etc.) Non-CP is extremely limiting and does not correlate to its Cyrodiil and PvE counterparts.

How does enabling CP increase build diversity in your opinion? What builds can you not do in no-CP that you can do in CP? The only builds that don't seem to be possible in no-CP are the unkillable blazeplars, block tanks, and troll healers which are the exact kind of builds that would make BGs horrible and never ending - we still have tanks in no-CP but they're actually killable by 2-3 players.

Other than these unkillable troll builds I would love to hear what builds you think are possible in CP that are not in no-CP.

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

If it's going to be non-CP, then ZOS may as well take away our weapons and armor and have us fight naked, if you want a true quick "fair fight," because players with proc-sets will always triumph over those without, in non-CP.

What a ridiculous statement all around. Taking away CP isn't anything close to "taking away weapons and armor." And if you "always" lose to proc-sets then you just need to L2P. I play a Magblade in BGs and just laugh at the squishy Viper+RM+Selene stamblades that are so squishy I can one-shot them with a meteor + spectral bow combo. Procs are getting nerfed next path anyway. But maybe the reason you're getting slapped around in BGs by proc sets isn't because it is no-CP but rather because it is a fair, balanced fight unlike in Cyro where you can just run over things in a Zerg and be kept up by 8 healers (I'm just taking a guess here that you run in huge groups in Cyro, maybe you don't)?

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

It's simple math.

CP-enabled battlegrounds would raise both the ceiling and the floor, not just the ceiling. If anything, BGs matches would go faster than they currently are right now. Not slower or longer.

Well if it is "simple math" then please enlighten me with it. I'd love to see this "simple" math that apparently proves that CP raises the ceiling and floor and makes BGs better.

---

I honestly don't see how people with a clue can say "CP takes more skill than no-CP." Give me a break. No-CP clearly takes more skill as sustaining is more difficult, surviving is more difficult, and most importantly: everyone (assuming CP 160+) is on an even playing field. As somebody with well over 800 CP who actually values competition, I don't want to beat up on some CP200 because he just has no chance to compete due to his low CP - I want us to be on an even playing field. I honestly think a lot of people who are used to running over low CP scrubs in Cyrodiil (particularly those who run in big groups) get into BGs and get smacked by actual good players on an even playing field and as a result they blame it on the "no-CP." The reality is that no-CP makes things 100% fair and makes the game more challenging - I guess some players just can't handle this but I hope ZOS keeps it this way.

Darkmage1337

bubbygink wrote: »

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

CP-enabled increases build diversity and thus overall competitiveness, which is what PvP is all about. (Competition, winning, min-maxing, being the best you can be, etc.) Non-CP is extremely limiting and does not correlate to its Cyrodiil and PvE counterparts.

How does enabling CP increase build diversity in your opinion? What builds can you not do in no-CP that you can do in CP? The only builds that don't seem to be possible in no-CP are the unkillable blazeplars, block tanks, and troll healers which are the exact kind of builds that would make BGs horrible and never ending - we still have tanks in no-CP but they're actually killable by 2-3 players.

Other than these unkillable troll builds I would love to hear what builds you think are possible in CP that are not in no-CP.

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

If it's going to be non-CP, then ZOS may as well take away our weapons and armor and have us fight naked, if you want a true quick "fair fight," because players with proc-sets will always triumph over those without, in non-CP.

What a ridiculous statement all around. Taking away CP isn't anything close to "taking away weapons and armor." And if you "always" lose to proc-sets then you just need to L2P. I play a Magblade in BGs and just laugh at the squishy Viper+RM+Selene stamblades that are so squishy I can one-shot them with a meteor + spectral bow combo. Procs are getting nerfed next path anyway. But maybe the reason you're getting slapped around in BGs by proc sets isn't because it is no-CP but rather because it is a fair, balanced fight unlike in Cyro where you can just run over things in a Zerg and be kept up by 8 healers (I'm just taking a guess here that you run in huge groups in Cyro, maybe you don't)?

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

It's simple math.

CP-enabled battlegrounds would raise both the ceiling and the floor, not just the ceiling. If anything, BGs matches would go faster than they currently are right now. Not slower or longer.

Well if it is "simple math" then please enlighten me with it. I'd love to see this "simple" math that apparently proves that CP raises the ceiling and floor and makes BGs better.

---

I honestly don't see how people with a clue can say "CP takes more skill than no-CP." Give me a break. No-CP clearly takes more skill as sustaining is more difficult, surviving is more difficult, and most importantly: everyone (assuming CP 160+) is on an even playing field. As somebody with well over 800 CP who actually values competition, I don't want to beat up on some CP200 because he just has no chance to compete due to his low CP - I want us to be on an even playing field. I honestly think a lot of people who are used to running over low CP scrubs in Cyrodiil (particularly those who run in big groups) get into BGs and get smacked by actual good players on an even playing field and as a result they blame it on the "no-CP." The reality is that no-CP makes things 100% fair and makes the game more challenging - I guess some players just can't handle this but I hope ZOS keeps it this way.

TLDR; most of what you said is just plain personal attacks and witty banter. Come back and try again when you have something constructive to say other than trying to assume random personal things about me or my play-style, etc.
I consider myself an above average competitive player and have been playing regularly since beta, so don't even try me. You're not worth the time or effort.

You clearly have not spent much time at all in Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil. Otherwise, you'd have known that Blazeplar builds were nerfed last update (I used to run one) and that proc sets are king in non-CP. It's just plain and simple. And yes, they're getting nerfed (a little?) next update; but it's too early to tell because 1. it's not on live yet, and 2. the changes may be too minuscule to even matter and be "balanced." Your only counter is "I'm a Magblade and sit in stealth in BGs all day." Hmm, in stealth, no wonder why you aren't dying from proc sets 24/7. Maybe you don't pvp during primetime when all pre-made proc-set spamming groups are online together.
As for Cyrodiil; lol, zerg. Nah, I prefer small-scale 3vX or 5vZerg combat. I play in Shor, hit me up.
As for the math, just check the other forum posts regarding proc sets.

You clearly missed the point, entirely, as my entire forum post and notion was calling for creating CP-enabled Battlegrounds WHILE ALSO having the OPTION for CP-disbaled Battlegrounds, nonvet, and what have you... It's called making everyone happy. But yet I continue to feed the ignorant troll. Go play somewhere else.

As wise words by @ZOS_RichLambert once said: "you don't have to be here."
Be constructive and give empirical evidence/data/support.

The reality is that PvP players prefer CP or non-CP. Yes, I am speaking for the majority.
We have 4 CP-enabled campaigns and 1 CP-disabled campaign.
There's your math.

GG.