An Idea to add some Depth to AvA

apostate9

This is just an idea I was tossing around, while reading some other threads pertaining to PvP depth and balance. I thought I would throw it out there, and maybe the kind ZOS community folks could put it in the suggestion basket.

Cyrodiil is littered with Ayleid ruins, that are largely irrelevant to PvP. My suggestion is this:

1. Make these ruins able to reflect Alliance ownership
2. Give each a Varla stone interactible, that can be "attuned" or some such nonsense, granting ownership of that ruin.
3. When your alliance has no fewer than 3 ruins attuned, your faction will gain a buff effect, "LORE OF THE OLD ONES" .

LORE OF THE OLD ONES
While near an allied keep, become immune to weapon poison effects.

Leave the vicinity of an allied keep, lose the buff. Hold less than three stones simultaneously, lose the buff. This means:

1. There is value in smaller groups spreading out and guarding these ruins, because you need multiple sites at the same time.
2. The power of weapon poisons is such that this minigame might be compelling to people as a form of counterplay against them.
3. Per #2 above, an outnumbered faction could gain a powerful defensive tool to defend map objectives. To negate this, more powerful armies will need to SPREAD OUT to capture the ruins.
4. More objectives is more of the map being actively used for open-field type battles.


Thoughts?


@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Minno

We just need randomized spawn points, a smaller map size, and no complex doors/pve walls.

Also it's time we get a server that is free for all!

Drummerx04

Well, I'll certainly give you points for creativity, but ZOS will be allergic to any suggestion that goes beyond, "Stick a few flags somewhere and call it a day"

I think sticking a few flags around Cyrodill could work with a few adjustments:

• Stick many flags around Cyrodiil (30-40 ish) in many of the random towns/lone houses/mountain tops/ruins
• Make them worth 1 point to the controlling factions.
• Cap the flag cap rate to about 2-4 people (sort of like IC flags)
• Give each flag Throttled spawns or transit abilities. 2-4 spawns/transits permitted within 2-3 minutes. This will give some strategic advantage to controlling the extra flags. The ability for a couple people to port around cyrodiil would perhaps spread things out kind of naturally

Giving actual small man objectives that affect transits and spawns and score without being placed RIGHT NEXT TO THE ZERG KEEPS might actually encourage more small group play even during prime time. It also would encourage some pvp across the actually pretty sizeable zone that is mostly barren and devoid of pvp

Publius_Scipio

Vehicles. Cyrodiil needs vehicles. Guar troop transport truck where one player is driver and can hold six other players as passengers. High speed two man chariot where one player drives and the other can range attack while moving. Dragons for aerial combat of course.

Also I desire for there to be some type of large explosive, maybe something similar to a barrel, which could be set on a keep wall or door with a timer and if the defenders don't disarm it it will one shot the wall or door. And there will be a limit of one explosive active at a time around a keep.

Possibly i'd also like to be able to dig tunnels underneath keeps. The tunnel would undermine the ground under those massive keep walls that the walls would collapse into the tunnel under their own weight leaving a breach.

Also a trojan horse, but because eso, a trojan guar. Dracarys would take Ales but Scipio would send them the trojan guar as a "gift" for their victory. Sneaky Tommy Pickles would foolishly take it into Ales and shower himself with praise for jumping Scipio and killing him with four of his sidekicks. As Dracarys sleeps from drunkenness after their victory party and "adult fun" with khajiit and argonians, Scipio and twelve COVENANT commandos will emerge from the trojan guar and kill them all as they sleep.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Also a trojan horse, but because eso, a trojan guar. Dracarys would take Ales but Scipio would send them the trojan guar as a "gift" for their victory. Sneaky Tommy Pickles would foolishly take it into Ales and shower himself with praise for jumping Scipio and killing him with four of his sidekicks. As Dracarys sleeps from drunkenness after their victory party and "adult fun" with khajiit and argonians, Scipio and twelve COVENANT commandos will emerge from the trojan guar and kill them all as they sleep.

Also anything new for Cyro to make something interesting even if its only a week long event is always ok for me.

Publius_Scipio

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Also a trojan horse, but because eso, a trojan guar. Dracarys would take Ales but Scipio would send them the trojan guar as a "gift" for their victory. Sneaky Tommy Pickles would foolishly take it into Ales and shower himself with praise for jumping Scipio and killing him with four of his sidekicks. As Dracarys sleeps from drunkenness after their victory party and "adult fun" with khajiit and argonians, Scipio and twelve COVENANT commandos will emerge from the trojan guar and kill them all as they sleep.

Also anything new for Cyro to make something interesting even if its only a week long event is always ok for me.

I seek an audience with Sneaky Pickles.

Solariken

Minno wrote: »

We just need randomized spawn points, a smaller map size, and no complex doors/pve walls.

Oooohh man... @Minno this is a phenomenal idea. Why not put random spawn points in the Ayleid ruins!? With the spawns being random, it would be infeasible for large groups to portal to enemy backlines but it would empower solo players to have options on a map dominated by enemy factions.

Think about it... If DC owns the map they can already freely port to different regions using the keeps (obviously a massive advantage), but if AD is pushed all the way to the gates, they can avoid a 20 minute horse ride (a massive disadvantage) if they want to port to random ruin near a random keep and cut transit with resource captures. I know Sotha Sil could use this kind of relief from it's current night cap scourge.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Solariken wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

We just need randomized spawn points, a smaller map size, and no complex doors/pve walls.

Oooohh man... @Minno this is a phenomenal idea. Why not put random spawn points in the Ayleid ruins!? With the spawns being random, it would be infeasible for large groups to portal to enemy backlines but it would empower solo players to have options on a map dominated by enemy factions.

Think about it... If DC owns the map they can already freely port to different regions using the keeps (obviously a massive advantage), but if AD is pushed all the way to the gates, they can avoid a 20 minute horse ride (a massive disadvantage) if they want to port to random ruin near a random keep and cut transit with resource captures. I know Sotha Sil could use this kind of relief from it's current night cap scourge.

Or just bring back camps without respawn ranges and spread the fight out across the map again like in the old days.

geonsocal

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Also a trojan horse, but because eso, a trojan guar. Dracarys would take Ales but Scipio would send them the trojan guar as a "gift" for their victory. Sneaky Tommy Pickles would foolishly take it into Ales and shower himself with praise for jumping Scipio and killing him with four of his sidekicks. As Dracarys sleeps from drunkenness after their victory party and "adult fun" with khajiit and argonians, Scipio and twelve COVENANT commandos will emerge from the trojan guar and kill them all as they sleep.

Also anything new for Cyro to make something interesting even if its only a week long event is always ok for me.

hahahahahaha...great meme

geonsocal

I'm kinda digging the random spawn idea and putting point markers all over the map...

Solariken

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

We just need randomized spawn points, a smaller map size, and no complex doors/pve walls.

Oooohh man... @Minno this is a phenomenal idea. Why not put random spawn points in the Ayleid ruins!? With the spawns being random, it would be infeasible for large groups to portal to enemy backlines but it would empower solo players to have options on a map dominated by enemy factions.

Think about it... If DC owns the map they can already freely port to different regions using the keeps (obviously a massive advantage), but if AD is pushed all the way to the gates, they can avoid a 20 minute horse ride (a massive disadvantage) if they want to port to random ruin near a random keep and cut transit with resource captures. I know Sotha Sil could use this kind of relief from it's current night cap scourge.

Or just bring back camps without respawn ranges and spread the fight out across the map again like in the old days.

No way, those were nerfed for good reason.

Vapirko

Solariken wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

We just need randomized spawn points, a smaller map size, and no complex doors/pve walls.

Oooohh man... @Minno this is a phenomenal idea. Why not put random spawn points in the Ayleid ruins!? With the spawns being random, it would be infeasible for large groups to portal to enemy backlines but it would empower solo players to have options on a map dominated by enemy factions.

Think about it... If DC owns the map they can already freely port to different regions using the keeps (obviously a massive advantage), but if AD is pushed all the way to the gates, they can avoid a 20 minute horse ride (a massive disadvantage) if they want to port to random ruin near a random keep and cut transit with resource captures. I know Sotha Sil could use this kind of relief from it's current night cap scourge.

Or just bring back camps without respawn ranges and spread the fight out across the map again like in the old days.

No way, those were nerfed for good reason.

Yeah, we do not need bomb zergs able to freely spawn anywhere

apostate9

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

We just need randomized spawn points, a smaller map size, and no complex doors/pve walls.

Oooohh man... @Minno this is a phenomenal idea. Why not put random spawn points in the Ayleid ruins!? With the spawns being random, it would be infeasible for large groups to portal to enemy backlines but it would empower solo players to have options on a map dominated by enemy factions.

Think about it... If DC owns the map they can already freely port to different regions using the keeps (obviously a massive advantage), but if AD is pushed all the way to the gates, they can avoid a 20 minute horse ride (a massive disadvantage) if they want to port to random ruin near a random keep and cut transit with resource captures. I know Sotha Sil could use this kind of relief from it's current night cap scourge.

Or just bring back camps without respawn ranges and spread the fight out across the map again like in the old days.

Thing is...in the old days, a larger army could never lose a battle because people who died a PVE death across the map could blood port to the biggest fight (think emp keep) and mob it in waves that never ended, as long as a FC was up.

It was actually a very salty subject, and a popular change.

Minno

apostate9 wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

We just need randomized spawn points, a smaller map size, and no complex doors/pve walls.

Oooohh man... @Minno this is a phenomenal idea. Why not put random spawn points in the Ayleid ruins!? With the spawns being random, it would be infeasible for large groups to portal to enemy backlines but it would empower solo players to have options on a map dominated by enemy factions.

Think about it... If DC owns the map they can already freely port to different regions using the keeps (obviously a massive advantage), but if AD is pushed all the way to the gates, they can avoid a 20 minute horse ride (a massive disadvantage) if they want to port to random ruin near a random keep and cut transit with resource captures. I know Sotha Sil could use this kind of relief from it's current night cap scourge.

Or just bring back camps without respawn ranges and spread the fight out across the map again like in the old days.

Thing is...in the old days, a larger army could never lose a battle because people who died a PVE death across the map could blood port to the biggest fight (think emp keep) and mob it in waves that never ended, as long as a FC was up.

It was actually a very salty subject, and a popular change.

Hence why the game should randomize spawn points to bring the fights all over the map while avoiding giving groups/players abusive ways to avoid the design intent of PvP.

But I'll say it again, this will only work if we had a smaller map size and interesting capture points or interesting places to fight (there is a reason chal/Alessia bridge are the most fought places; both have great places to PvP and are close to rez points.)

apostate9

Minno wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

We just need randomized spawn points, a smaller map size, and no complex doors/pve walls.

Oooohh man... @Minno this is a phenomenal idea. Why not put random spawn points in the Ayleid ruins!? With the spawns being random, it would be infeasible for large groups to portal to enemy backlines but it would empower solo players to have options on a map dominated by enemy factions.

Think about it... If DC owns the map they can already freely port to different regions using the keeps (obviously a massive advantage), but if AD is pushed all the way to the gates, they can avoid a 20 minute horse ride (a massive disadvantage) if they want to port to random ruin near a random keep and cut transit with resource captures. I know Sotha Sil could use this kind of relief from it's current night cap scourge.

Or just bring back camps without respawn ranges and spread the fight out across the map again like in the old days.

Thing is...in the old days, a larger army could never lose a battle because people who died a PVE death across the map could blood port to the biggest fight (think emp keep) and mob it in waves that never ended, as long as a FC was up.

It was actually a very salty subject, and a popular change.

Hence why the game should randomize spawn points to bring the fights all over the map while avoiding giving groups/players abusive ways to avoid the design intent of PvP.

But I'll say it again, this will only work if we had a smaller map size and interesting capture points or interesting places to fight (there is a reason chal/Alessia bridge are the most fought places; both have great places to PvP and are close to rez points.)

They aren't gonna change the size of Cyrodiil, man.

Minno

apostate9 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

We just need randomized spawn points, a smaller map size, and no complex doors/pve walls.

Oooohh man... @Minno this is a phenomenal idea. Why not put random spawn points in the Ayleid ruins!? With the spawns being random, it would be infeasible for large groups to portal to enemy backlines but it would empower solo players to have options on a map dominated by enemy factions.

Think about it... If DC owns the map they can already freely port to different regions using the keeps (obviously a massive advantage), but if AD is pushed all the way to the gates, they can avoid a 20 minute horse ride (a massive disadvantage) if they want to port to random ruin near a random keep and cut transit with resource captures. I know Sotha Sil could use this kind of relief from it's current night cap scourge.

Or just bring back camps without respawn ranges and spread the fight out across the map again like in the old days.

Thing is...in the old days, a larger army could never lose a battle because people who died a PVE death across the map could blood port to the biggest fight (think emp keep) and mob it in waves that never ended, as long as a FC was up.

It was actually a very salty subject, and a popular change.

Hence why the game should randomize spawn points to bring the fights all over the map while avoiding giving groups/players abusive ways to avoid the design intent of PvP.

But I'll say it again, this will only work if we had a smaller map size and interesting capture points or interesting places to fight (there is a reason chal/Alessia bridge are the most fought places; both have great places to PvP and are close to rez points.)

They aren't gonna change the size of Cyrodiil, man.

No, but I can smell a new, easily created, 30v30v30 bg in the CP ruleset incoming

QuebraRegra

apostate9 wrote: »

This is just an idea I was tossing around, while reading some other threads pertaining to PvP depth and balance. I thought I would throw it out there, and maybe the kind ZOS community folks could put it in the suggestion basket.

Cyrodiil is littered with Ayleid ruins, that are largely irrelevant to PvP. My suggestion is this:

1. Make these ruins able to reflect Alliance ownership
2. Give each a Varla stone interactible, that can be "attuned" or some such nonsense, granting ownership of that ruin.
3. When your alliance has no fewer than 3 ruins attuned, your faction will gain a buff effect, "LORE OF THE OLD ONES" .

LORE OF THE OLD ONES
While near an allied keep, become immune to weapon poison effects.

Leave the vicinity of an allied keep, lose the buff. Hold less than three stones simultaneously, lose the buff. This means:

1. There is value in smaller groups spreading out and guarding these ruins, because you need multiple sites at the same time.
2. The power of weapon poisons is such that this minigame might be compelling to people as a form of counterplay against them.
3. Per #2 above, an outnumbered faction could gain a powerful defensive tool to defend map objectives. To negate this, more powerful armies will need to SPREAD OUT to capture the ruins.
4. More objectives is more of the map being actively used for open-field type battles.


Thoughts?


@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I like where yer goin there.. I would add that control of a constellation of ruins could allow for the summoning of a giant monster for "x" time to attack enemy keeps, etc. A "circle" of summoning players would have to remain in the ruin, at the altar to keep the "monster" summoned active. Enemy factions could break the summons by seeking the summoning circle and killing any of the "circle of summoners". Monsters could be anything lore wise (maybe a giant Dwemer automaton, or dragon or somesuch). Something like this concept:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjj5Vpnvsk4

Vilestride

Maybe I don't fully understand the manner in which you want to implement random spawns. But I am concered with the damage this could do to group play.

First I want to add that I 100% agree that there should be more objectives to spread out the fighting across the mostly baron yet beautiful landscapes of cyrodil. There needs to be mechanics to improve the potential a small group or solo player can have on the result of a campaign.

All that being said. If my 12 man wipes across map or defending an emporership we earned I don't want to have to take 20 minutes meeting up again with a healer running from behind blackboot somewhere then a dps on his way back from bruma ect. is this what you are suggesting?