Best in slot weapon traits

Lughlongarm

*Infused value is the same for both 1H and 2H, so I think infused will be BiS on most builds, for DW/1h+shield(pvp).

*Nirnhoned will be great on medium armor stamina builds, mainly on 2H, best synergies with Berserker Strike, which I think we will see a lot more of due to penetration going down(pvp).

*Sharpened is still probably Bis for magica builds(pvp).

*Precise - Bis in pve for most builds, could be Bis for some cit pvp builds with shadow mundus.

IxskullzxI

If you're using 1h and shield, nirn would be better than sharpened. The pen sharpened gives on a 1h is like 2% more damage.. Nirn would give a little more than that, work against shields, and boost your healing. Only thing is you can't get nirn on many weapons.

Asardes

Even on LA it's difficult to over-penetrate, since the base resistance of 5/1/1 setup is about 10K, but you also have the spell warding passive on top of that, plus some class and racial passives that add on top of that. Penetration without CP or lover mundus is given by sharp & concentration passive is only 7.5K. If you use spinner's you reach 11.5K which is only slightly less than the spell resistance of a 5/1/1 setup with no race and class bonuses and about 1K less than 7 medium. So you will not over-penetrate unless you are stacking CP and mundus on top of that. On stamina it's almost impossible to over-penetrate because there isn't any penetration bonus from passives. Even with sharp, spriggan and lover you have only 9.1K while a 5/1/1 has about 10K physical resistance.
In PvE sharpened and precise are about equal, with nirnhoned slightly behind but since most people in PvP run impenetrable, sharpened edges ahead. Precise boosts heals, especially HoTs more than nirnhoned, but the latter can be a good compromise because it boost both offensive abilities and heals a bit. But it's only available on Maelstrom, rewards from PvP leaderboards or crafted. I think that in the end sharpened is still the best.

Chilly-McFreeze

Asardes wrote: »

Even on LA it's difficult to over-penetrate, since the base resistance of 5/1/1 setup is about 10K, but you also have the spell warding passive on top of that, plus some class and racial passives that add on top of that. Penetration without CP or lover mundus is given by sharp & concentration passive is only 7.5K. If you use spinner's you reach 11.5K which is only slightly less than the spell resistance of a 5/1/1 setup with no race and class bonuses and about 1K less than 7 medium. So you will not over-penetrate unless you are stacking CP and mundus on top of that. On stamina it's almost impossible to over-penetrate because there isn't any penetration bonus from passives. Even with sharp, spriggan and lover you have only 9.1K while a 5/1/1 has about 10K physical resistance.
In PvE sharpened and precise are about equal, with nirnhoned slightly behind but since most people in PvP run impenetrable, sharpened edges ahead. Precise boosts heals, especially HoTs more than nirnhoned, but the latter can be a good compromise because it boost both offensive abilities and heals a bit. But it's only available on Maelstrom, rewards from PvP leaderboards or crafted. I think that in the end sharpened is still the best.

So on the other hand, do you think that high armor resistance becomes even more important when sharpened isn't as attractive anymore?

Asardes

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Even on LA it's difficult to over-penetrate, since the base resistance of 5/1/1 setup is about 10K, but you also have the spell warding passive on top of that, plus some class and racial passives that add on top of that. Penetration without CP or lover mundus is given by sharp & concentration passive is only 7.5K. If you use spinner's you reach 11.5K which is only slightly less than the spell resistance of a 5/1/1 setup with no race and class bonuses and about 1K less than 7 medium. So you will not over-penetrate unless you are stacking CP and mundus on top of that. On stamina it's almost impossible to over-penetrate because there isn't any penetration bonus from passives. Even with sharp, spriggan and lover you have only 9.1K while a 5/1/1 has about 10K physical resistance.
In PvE sharpened and precise are about equal, with nirnhoned slightly behind but since most people in PvP run impenetrable, sharpened edges ahead. Precise boosts heals, especially HoTs more than nirnhoned, but the latter can be a good compromise because it boost both offensive abilities and heals a bit. But it's only available on Maelstrom, rewards from PvP leaderboards or crafted. I think that in the end sharpened is still the best.

So on the other hand, do you think that high armor resistance becomes even more important when sharpened isn't as attractive anymore?

Not resistance per se, but rather having a higher uptime on minor/major ward/resolve. For example my magicka sorcerer has around 18.5K resistance both physical and spell with bound aegis and boundless storm up. There's no way to get full penetration on that, unless someone throws elemental drain and power of the light, and has a high number of CP in spell erosion. People talk about having shields anyway, but you can't have 100% uptime on those, because they are easily downed by incoming damage and refreshing them is expensive. Actually I only pop healing ward if I expect high incoming damage, or I am taking damage and my HP is way down.

I've indeed seen a few players just stack shields and jump around rocks and other obstacles like crazy, but they did no damage. There was actually a sorc (EU-PC DC) who was trolling a group of 5-6 AD on the wood fences near Roeblock one day who did just that. TBH I really don't understand how he managed to refresh them so quickly while jumping up and down the wooden beams. But such players should be ignored, just like the tanks with huge HP, that endlessly heal and mist form because they are not able to kill you. Players who don't troll this way and actually offensive minded won't be able to keep up shields non stop so they are vulnerable. So yes, resistance is important now, due to the fact it can't be easily stripped anymore.

Joy_Division

Best weapon trait will depend on the situation and the opponent, which is how it should have been in the first place.

casparian

Joy_Division wrote: »

Best weapon trait will depend on the situation and the opponent, which is how it should have been in the first place.

Exactly. This forum is still operating in the pre-U15 mindset, where the phrase "best in slot" makes sense. In U15 and beyond, the better phrase is "Competitive for Slot". Sharpened, Precise, Infused, and and Nirnhoned will all be competitive choices for many builds across all content, and a few other traits will be competitive for a few niche builds. If there is such a thing as BIS for a particular player, it will be because of a host of factors other than weapon trait, such as group composition, intended playstyle, etc.

That's as it should be.

Minno

casparian wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Best weapon trait will depend on the situation and the opponent, which is how it should have been in the first place.

Exactly. This forum is still operating in the pre-U15 mindset, where the phrase "best in slot" makes sense. In U15 and beyond, the better phrase is "Competitive for Slot". Sharpened, Precise, Infused, and and Nirnhoned will all be competitive choices for many builds across all content, and a few other traits will be competitive for a few niche builds. If there is such a thing as BIS for a particular player, it will be because of a host of factors other than weapon trait, such as group composition, intended playstyle, etc.

That's as it should be.

Counter argument is that we only have 2 bars. If we have now 4 situations that require constantly changing gear, then the BIS item will be the one in which provides the best overall bonus. Then most players will slot a secondary trait for those niche encounters. And we are now back to square one.

The skills should determine the change in situations/players, not the gear. But that's where spell crafting comes in, where you can crazy should to always gain an ebb+flow advantage. Until we get that day we have to deal with the fact there will always be a BIS mindset and the great that supports it.

Chilly-McFreeze

Minno wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Best weapon trait will depend on the situation and the opponent, which is how it should have been in the first place.

Exactly. This forum is still operating in the pre-U15 mindset, where the phrase "best in slot" makes sense. In U15 and beyond, the better phrase is "Competitive for Slot". Sharpened, Precise, Infused, and and Nirnhoned will all be competitive choices for many builds across all content, and a few other traits will be competitive for a few niche builds. If there is such a thing as BIS for a particular player, it will be because of a host of factors other than weapon trait, such as group composition, intended playstyle, etc.

That's as it should be.

Counter argument is that we only have 2 bars. If we have now 4 situations that require constantly changing gear, then the BIS item will be the one in which provides the best overall bonus. Then most players will slot a secondary trait for those niche encounters. And we are now back to square one.

The skills should determine the change in situations/players, not the gear. But that's where spell crafting comes in, where you can crazy should to always gain an ebb+flow advantage. Until we get that day we have to deal with the fact there will always be a BIS mindset and the great that supports it.

I think you're refering to nirnhorned but remember that until now BiS ment that something was better by a great margin in almost all situations. Now BiS is something that is good against anything, but neither best nor worst in comparison to specific combinations of traits and situations.

And I'd much rather see people slot nirn + infused or nirn + precise or ... than 2 x sharpened. Plus, mind that most sets don't come in nirn.

Glamdring

When choosing weapontrait for pvp u also have to take into account what kind of target u are attacking. Ideally u avoid tanky chars and go for the healers and damage dealers.

Minno

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Best weapon trait will depend on the situation and the opponent, which is how it should have been in the first place.

Exactly. This forum is still operating in the pre-U15 mindset, where the phrase "best in slot" makes sense. In U15 and beyond, the better phrase is "Competitive for Slot". Sharpened, Precise, Infused, and and Nirnhoned will all be competitive choices for many builds across all content, and a few other traits will be competitive for a few niche builds. If there is such a thing as BIS for a particular player, it will be because of a host of factors other than weapon trait, such as group composition, intended playstyle, etc.

That's as it should be.

Counter argument is that we only have 2 bars. If we have now 4 situations that require constantly changing gear, then the BIS item will be the one in which provides the best overall bonus. Then most players will slot a secondary trait for those niche encounters. And we are now back to square one.

The skills should determine the change in situations/players, not the gear. But that's where spell crafting comes in, where you can crazy should to always gain an ebb+flow advantage. Until we get that day we have to deal with the fact there will always be a BIS mindset and the great that supports it.

I think you're refering to nirnhorned but remember that until now BiS ment that something was better by a great margin in almost all situations. Now BiS is something that is good against anything, but neither best nor worst in comparison to specific combinations of traits and situations.

And I'd much rather see people slot nirn + infused or nirn + precise or ... than 2 x sharpened. Plus, mind that most sets don't come in nirn.

That is true, the intent has shifted.

And much better than seeing sharpened/defending combos too lol.

Lexxypwns

If we are talking pure burst damage, for Pvp, precise+shadow is BiS.

Everyone saying that impen makes precise useless is wrong. Everyone saying damage shield and over-pen make sharpened useless are wrong.

Waffennacht

.

Chilly-McFreeze

Lexxypwns wrote: »

If we are talking pure burst damage, for Pvp, precise+shadow is BiS.

Everyone saying that impen makes precise useless is wrong. Everyone saying damage shield and over-pen make sharpened useless are wrong.

Agree, but I think they really mean "not optimal on a broad range of possible confrontations" when they say "useless". Guess that BiS mentality is rooted too deep in people's mindset for now.

Lexxypwns

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

If we are talking pure burst damage, for Pvp, precise+shadow is BiS.

Everyone saying that impen makes precise useless is wrong. Everyone saying damage shield and over-pen make sharpened useless are wrong.

Agree, but I think they really mean "not optimal on a broad range of possible confrontations" when they say "useless". Guess that BiS mentality is rooted too deep in people's mindset for now.

I'd argue crits are equally/more important against people working to mitigate them(impen, shields, block) because when you get your burst window you still need to crit them to do the necessary damage.

So while they may not mean useless, factually, precise is hands down the best offensive choice AND it improves your healing as well.

People can run whatever they want, the difference is small, but precise will lead to the most burst

SodanTok

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

If we are talking pure burst damage, for Pvp, precise+shadow is BiS.

Everyone saying that impen makes precise useless is wrong. Everyone saying damage shield and over-pen make sharpened useless are wrong.

Agree, but I think they really mean "not optimal on a broad range of possible confrontations" when they say "useless". Guess that BiS mentality is rooted too deep in people's mindset for now.

I'd argue crits are equally/more important against people working to mitigate them(impen, shields, block) because when you get your burst window you still need to crit them to do the necessary damage.

So while they may not mean useless, factually, precise is hands down the best offensive choice AND it improves your healing as well.

People can run whatever they want, the difference is small, but precise will lead to the most burst

But sometimes few big bursts are better than many small ones. Like you said, crit chance leads to more crit bursts. But you need to give them power to do the damage. Having low crit chance is equally bad as having high while no damage to make the strikes.

Which is the good state we are arriving now. You can pick whatever you really need instead of one thing that is always best.

DeHei

Infused or nirnhoned will probably the way to go for all classes. Explained here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/359324/which-weapontrait-you-choose-when-sharpened-get-a-nerf-how-effective-they-are-next-patch#latest

Comfortably_Buzzed

Minno wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Best weapon trait will depend on the situation and the opponent, which is how it should have been in the first place.

Exactly. This forum is still operating in the pre-U15 mindset, where the phrase "best in slot" makes sense. In U15 and beyond, the better phrase is "Competitive for Slot". Sharpened, Precise, Infused, and and Nirnhoned will all be competitive choices for many builds across all content, and a few other traits will be competitive for a few niche builds. If there is such a thing as BIS for a particular player, it will be because of a host of factors other than weapon trait, such as group composition, intended playstyle, etc.

That's as it should be.

Counter argument is that we only have 2 bars. If we have now 4 situations that require constantly changing gear, then the BIS item will be the one in which provides the best overall bonus. Then most players will slot a secondary trait for those niche encounters. And we are now back to square one.

The skills should determine the change in situations/players, not the gear. But that's where spell crafting comes in, where you can crazy should to always gain an ebb+flow advantage. Until we get that day we have to deal with the fact there will always be a BIS mindset and the great that supports it.

It's not really a counter argument. If anything, it bolsters the argument even more. What constitutes "niche" varies from build to build, and having only two bars forces players into deciding what encounters they want to be strong in and which they want to be weak in. IMO it is good for balance for players to pick their gear based on their niche instead of the way it is now where sharpened is BiS for virtually all situations.

KingJ

Sharpened will be BIS for majority of 10 classes 9/10 of the classes so why wouldn't you run sharpened.Sharpened scales better than nirn sharp will be better most of your time open world.No BG sharpened will be BIS since you have no CP to get that penetration.

Xvorg

WacArnold wrote: »

Nice no more farming for sharp on my rattle staff I have infused very good news. What kind of enchants will be the strongest?

Glyph of hardening. A 3K shield each 1.5 secs

Don't foget the res recover glyphs that do magic dmg too.

Xvorg

Lughlongarm wrote: »

*Infused value is the same for both 1H and 2H, so I think infused will be BiS on most builds, for DW/1h+shield(pvp).

*Nirnhoned will be great on medium armor stamina builds, mainly on 2H, best synergies with Berserker Strike, which I think we will see a lot more of due to penetration going down(pvp).

*Sharpened is still probably Bis for magica builds(pvp).

*Precise - Bis in pve for most builds, could be Bis for some cit pvp builds with shadow mundus.

Charged will be a good option on DKs (flame/poison enchant)

MarekT_T

I have only my sharp 2H VMA maul from my 3rd run... I want nirn, because shields and healing..

VMA giveth, ESO taketh away.

DeHei

KingJ wrote: »

Sharpened will be BIS for majority of 10 classes 9/10 of the classes so why wouldn't you run sharpened.Sharpened scales better than nirn sharp will be better most of your time open world.No BG sharpened will be BIS since you have no CP to get that penetration.

looks like that you arent able to understand these changes?
Sharpened will only be an option for PvE. But there i think many guys will go with precise and take the lover mundus to get the penetration back.

You are here in PvP part of the forum. Sharpened will not BiS here with next patch. You can wear it and hope that you only find heavy armor targets..
Better options are infused, nirnhoned or other in special builds like charged with destrostaff.

KingJ

DeHei wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Sharpened will be BIS for majority of 10 classes 9/10 of the classes so why wouldn't you run sharpened.Sharpened scales better than nirn sharp will be better most of your time open world.No BG sharpened will be BIS since you have no CP to get that penetration.

looks like that you arent able to understand these changes?
Sharpened will only be an option for PvE. But there i think many guys will go with precise and take the lover mundus to get the penetration back.

You are here in PvP part of the forum. Sharpened will not BiS here with next patch. You can wear it and hope that you only find heavy armor targets..
Better options are infused, nirnhoned or other in special builds like charged with destrostaff.

No I understand the changes perfectly well, its you who don't understand how these changes will translate into PVP.

Infused nirnhoned will not be better options next patch in the slightest.I would say you don't understand how damage work but I don't want to be a ***.This is true for PVP AND PVE,The more you reduce someone resistances the more damage you deal to that player that's the simple truth of the game. Your statement that sharpened is only better against heavy armor targets is also false. Your not going to over penetrate medium armor builds next patch not even certain light armor of they know how to build there characters.
Some one already did the numbers in this very thread that you ignored.

You will still do the most damage picking sharpened only time nirn will be slightly decent is against sorc but if you build to only fight sorcs you make your build weaker against everyone else.

TDLR:Sharpened is still and always will be BIS in PVP.

Jawasa

@KingJ no it's not next patch it's build dependant and also depends on what you are up against. With the changes next patch most builds will do the same dmg with nirn and it improves heals too. sharp will still be fine but it's not a no brainer choice at all. Depending on your build and your target infused, precis, nirn and sharpned can all be the best.

KingJ

Jawasa wrote: »

@KingJ no it's not next patch it's build dependant and also depends on what you are up against. With the changes next patch most builds will do the same dmg with nirn and it improves heals too. sharp will still be fine but it's not a no brainer choice at all. Depending on your build and your target infused, precis, nirn and sharpned can all be the best.

@Jawasa no it won't be sharpened will still be BIS since its the best trait against the most builds.

SodanTok

KingJ wrote: »

Jawasa wrote: »

@KingJ no it's not next patch it's build dependant and also depends on what you are up against. With the changes next patch most builds will do the same dmg with nirn and it improves heals too. sharp will still be fine but it's not a no brainer choice at all. Depending on your build and your target infused, precis, nirn and sharpned can all be the best.

@Jawasa no it won't be sharpened will still be BIS since its the best trait against the most builds.

I think you completely misunderstood what people meant when they say BIS in PVP.
This is not like PVE where you can say one thing has 1% more damage so it is BiS. If you get more healing or burst potential from one thing while sacrificing very low damage, chances are its far better.

Also the fact that you dont overpenetrate does not mean every point of penetration is worth it. The relative damage gain is lower the closer you are to the mark.
So pardon everyone here who think that getting 0.5-1.5% more damage from sharpened vs nonShield is not better than getting 4% more damage vs shield and bigger heals.

Akinos

I'll be going with nirn on my 2H, 1 nirn and 1 sharpened for dual wield. Nirn will be my BiS most likely, considering the only class I have trouble killing in a reasonable amount of time are magsorcs. If I can burst down a sorcs shields kill them then chances are that most other builds/classes will still die at a reasonable speed like they do now.

In reality though, any trait would work, so long as you time your burst correctly.

nCats

With sharpened nerf, I really see mauls having more to say in pvp (not that they did not work already). Will have to test to see which one works better for me, eventually.

Frankly, precise, infused, or nirn maul looks better for non-cp pvp now than a greatsword. The 5% extra damage is not good enough if it can be mitigated away. A nirnhoned maul will have the same rough amount of increased damage, and will penetrate much better than sword most targets.

revonine

Maybe my precise Automaton maul will actually see some use. I ain't grinding that god forsaken place anymore.