Stam Regen, Blocking, & You - How Blocking REALLY Kills your Stam regen (and how to counter-act it)

HiImRex

Hi fellow pvpers, this is going to be a niche post about a game mechanic that probably has a fairly large impact in your pvp performance: stam regen & how it interacts with blocking (and sprinting). More specifically, how this interaction can unexpectedly screw your stam regen or have little to no impact on your regen based on timing.

So the basics of regen (for the newer players), you have a regen value for health, magicka, and stamina and every 2 seconds you will gain that value back to your respective resource pool. For health and magicka this value is a guaranteed constant. Every 2 seconds you will gain back the regen value you see on your character sheet. Not so for Stamina but I'll get to that in just a moment.

Blocking and sprinting stops stamina regen. I think everyone knows that. But how does this actually work in practice?

The game keeps track of a regen timer. It counts down 2 second intervals and at the end of every interval it will check your character sheet, find the 3 regen values, and restore that regen value to each pool. When you block or sprint, the stam regen value on your character sheet goes down to 0 for the duration of blocking or sprinting.

Here's the important part: the game does not pause the 2 second countdown at all while you block or sprint. It will continue to check the regen timing every 2 seconds, refer to your character sheet at set intervals, and if that interval comes and you're blocking or sprinting it will give you back 0 stam (the value shown on your character sheet) and continue the countdown.

This probably all sounds obvious but there's an important consequence to this in terms of block and sprint timing:

If you block or sprint only within that 2 second interval, it will NOT hamper your stam regen in any way. You don't have to stop for very long either, you can literally let go in the split second that the game will check your regen values, get the full benefit of the regen, and then go back to blocking or sprinting. So for example, you can travel at nearly full sprint speed without foregoing any of your regen (really great if you stack sprint speed, you can run from a zerg while maintaining most if not all of your stam regen if you can maintain prefect timing on the regen ticks).

Of course this applies the other way. If you block or sprint for a split second during which the game pings your regen value for resource return, you will lose out on the entire regen value. So for example, let's say you fight someone 1v1. It's a 20 second fight (for the sake of simplicity), and you have 1000 stam regen. Throughout this fight, you block 5 times. Each time you block you block only long enough to mitigate an important part of a burst combo (i.e. ulti, dizzy swing, frag, etc.). How much stamina did you miss out on due to blocking 5 times (outside of the block cost itself)? It completely depends on whether you blocked during the split second in which the game checks your regen value:

In scenario 1, every single block landed BETWEEN the 2 second intervals. You lost 0 extra stamina from regen ticks because you blocked.
In scenario 2, every single block landed at the 2 second interval. You lost 10,000 extra stamina from regen ticks because you blocked.

So in the best case scenario blocking had no impact on your stamina sustain. In the worst case scenario the 5 split second blocking cost you a catastrophic amount of stamina, and of course everything in between. This applies to sprint as well (hence if you learn the regen tick timing you can sprint for free, with almost no loss in velocity).

If you run really high stam regen this is very important as you invested a lot of your set bonus space, mundus stone, race passive, skill seleciton etc. toward a value which you can completely negate with a split second block or sprint at the wrong time. The worst case scenario of the above example with 2000 stam regen (which a lot of medium builds gear toward) is a whopping 20,000 stamina in the course of the 20 second fight. Geez that is a COMPLETELY different fight depending on exactly when you hit those 5 blocks.

In conclusion:

Since there's no easy way to keep track of the 2 second interval, and ESO combat being very chaotic to begin with, this largely comes down to RNG. Unless you absolutely refuse to ever block anything and never sprint in combat ever not even for an instant, you will NEVER and I mean *NEVER* get the full character sheet value of your stam regen. I think that is pretty important to take into consideration when you plan your build and in your execution. With magicka, this is not true; you can calculate with full certainty exactly how much magicka you generate during a fight as there is no (what amounts to) RNG mechanic that sometimes costs you nothing and sometimes costs you everything.

But there are some lessons to take into heart (and keep in mind this applies alot more if you run high stam regen builds):

1. Don't block cancel anything unless you really need to. If block canceling is just a natural reflex for you, and (for example) you block cancel every surprise attack and executioner regardless of whether you expect counter pressure or if you really need that extra DPS, then get into the habit of only block canceling when you are REASONABLY certain the value you get is worth the potential loss of your regen. Conversely this makes swap cancelling the safest and cleanest way to animation cancel (though it does swap your bar so it can't always be used).

2. If you really like to theorycraft your builds (and especially if you main stamina classes), just remember that the stamina regen on your character sheet is never going to be available to you all the time. I.e. build for a bit more stam sustain on your character sheet than you think you need.

3. Or conversely, just prepare for the worst and try to build as much non-regen based stam sustain into your build whenever it makes sense (constitution, black rose, bull-netch, leaching strikes, bloodthorn, dark deal, etc.) because those will always give you full value.

FINALLY

Imagine that somebody @Dorrino anybody @Dorrino or everybody @Dorrino makes an add-on to ESO that keeps track of this 2 second interval on your screen with a small visual timer. And every time the game is about to check your stam regen the add-on plays an audio cue (average human reaction time to audio stimulus is 0.17 seconds, so taking lag into account a 0.3-0.4 second warning should allow anybody to react in time).

Imagine every good stam player has this add-on installed and has mastered the timing. Just imagine it, and then you can flame me hard when @Dorrino actually does this and this becomes the meta.

You're welcome.

Koolio

This hurts very bad on console due to block being tied to dodge roll.

Lexxypwns

Well done

Toc de Malsvi

Koolio wrote: »

This hurts very bad on console due to block being tied to dodge roll.

Indeed. Well and the general delay on actions where sprinting becomes neigh impossible at times. I cannot count the number of times I went to dodge roll and the game registered me as blocking before I could roll and I became locked in a block because I immediately did not have enough stamina to dodge roll.

HeathenDeacon

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

This hurts very bad on console due to block being tied to dodge roll.

Indeed. Well and the general delay on actions where sprinting becomes neigh impossible at times. I cannot count the number of times I went to dodge roll and the game registered me as blocking before I could roll and I became locked in a block because I immediately did not have enough stamina to dodge roll.

happens too often...way too often.

crusnik91

good post!
But I think u forgot to mention the nerfs to blocking (unless I missed that part) and thus dodge rolling is somewhat preferable in this meta

TreeHugger1

Thought about the addon you suggested and you are wrong this would be very helpful for magicka players who use mist form.

MarzAttakz

HiImRex wrote: »

Imagine that somebody @Dorrino anybody @Dorrino or everybody @Dorrino makes an add-on to ESO that keeps track of this 2 second interval on your screen with a small visual timer. And every time the game is about to check your stam regen the add-on plays an audio cue (average human reaction time to audio stimulus is 0.17 seconds, so taking lag into account a 0.3-0.4 second warning should allow anybody to react in time).

Do you perhaps know if this internal counter is server or client-side? I'm wondering because my average ping is 250ms that's a whole quarter second for a signal to reach me or my signal to reach the server, if it's client-to-server polling an entire half-second for that counter to update.

I would love such an add-on for my stam characters but doubt I'd be able to even use it with such ping, as much as I hate to say it, GCD and SCD alleviates so many issues.

leepalmer95

In conclusion.

Zos messed console up every more when they did their non regen change which achieved nothing.

Lexxypwns

crusnik91 wrote: »

good post!
But I think u forgot to mention the nerfs to blocking (unless I missed that part) and thus dodge rolling is somewhat preferable in this meta

Actually, the nerfs to blocking mean that the meta is to either build for NO block OR "permablock" the days of trying to block a few high damaging attacks when out numbered, to relieve pressure, are pretty much dead. However, impregnable + sturdy traits and "permablock" is much better defense than dodge roll IMO.

This post can change everything, if an add-on is released publicly to track regen checks then blocking will clearly be superior to dodge roll

DeHei

time to ban all addons from TESO... i am bored to hear about the next "cheat" addon..

Console playing looks much more fair without any addons..

HiImRex

Koolio wrote: »

This hurts very bad on console due to block being tied to dodge roll.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

This hurts very bad on console due to block being tied to dodge roll.

Indeed. Well and the general delay on actions where sprinting becomes neigh impossible at times. I cannot count the number of times I went to dodge roll and the game registered me as blocking before I could roll and I became locked in a block because I immediately did not have enough stamina to dodge roll.

That sounds horrible to deal with, I didn't know on consoles dodge was tied to block :<

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Well done

crusnik91 wrote: »

good post!
But I think u forgot to mention the nerfs to blocking (unless I missed that part) and thus dodge rolling is somewhat preferable in this meta

Thanks. Dodge rolling is somewhat preferable if you're not built to block (basically don't ever block without sturdy/block-cost reduction unless its a save your life so you can secure a win scenario) for sure. I just wanted to focus the post on the stam regen aspect however.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Actually, the nerfs to blocking mean that the meta is to either build for NO block OR "permablock" the days of trying to block a few high damaging attacks when out numbered, to relieve pressure, are pretty much dead. However, impregnable + sturdy traits and "permablock" is much better defense than dodge roll IMO.

This post can change everything, if an add-on is released publicly to track regen checks then blocking will clearly be superior to dodge roll

Yea can you imagine 1.7 seconds of block, 0.3 second down-time with full regen. Heck even getting half regen (3.7 seconds of block, 0.3 second downtime) would be difficult to deal with.

MarzAttakz wrote: »

Do you perhaps know if this internal counter is server or client-side? I'm wondering because my average ping is 250ms that's a whole quarter second for a signal to reach me or my signal to reach the server, if it's client-to-server polling an entire half-second for that counter to update.

I would love such an add-on for my stam characters but doubt I'd be able to even use it with such ping, as much as I hate to say it, GCD and SCD alleviates so many issues.

I actually have no idea. I'm but a novice and I leave it to the wizards to figure out haha.

Waffennacht

I noticed this too, it's VERY difficult to try and time on your own.

But as a mag player...

What's this b-b-block you speak of?

leepalmer95

Waffennacht wrote: »

I noticed this too, it's VERY difficult to try and time on your own.

But as a mag player...

What's this b-b-block you speak of?

Its the thing mag templar/ wardens/ dk's do permanently.

Also the smart choice to do when a dizzying spammer is on your before you streak through them or throw a frag.

Dorrino

HiImRex wrote: »

Imagine that somebody @Dorrino anybody @Dorrino or everybody @Dorrino makes an add-on to ESO that keeps track of this 2 second interval on your screen with a small visual timer. And every time the game is about to check your stam regen the add-on plays an audio cue (average human reaction time to audio stimulus is 0.17 seconds, so taking lag into account a 0.3-0.4 second warning should allow anybody to react in time).

Imagine every good stam player has this add-on installed and has mastered the timing. Just imagine it, and then you can flame me hard when @Dorrino actually does this and this becomes the meta.

You're welcome.

@HiImRex

You weren't wrong to summon me:)

I really wanted to track regen ticks in an addon for quite a while, but was always distracted by other stuff to do.

If your tests are correct (and i strongly suspect they are) i'll think about the best way to show this information.

Obvious idea is to produce faint sounds each 2 sec, while in combat.

Like a metronome.

It's redundant to warn before the tick happens, since they happen so often. With this metronome in the background in a reasonable amount of time people will naturally predict when it happens and will unconsciously act accordingly.

Thank you for this post.

I'll see what and when i'm gonna do:)

Aziah

Really nice post. Also applies to frost staff and Mist Form users!

Thogard

Very interesting. I was always under the impression that if you blocked at any point in the 2s then you'd lose the regen...

Many combat Logs will have a toggle feature that can actually show your natural resource return. Shouldn't be hard to make an add on. I have a hunch that you'd just have to make some minor changes to existing addons... in already alerted visually whenever my lich, desert rose, or constitution passive give me back resources.

Dorrino

Ok, so far i can confirm everything is the post regarding mag/stam/hp regen.

Ticks for all 3 resources happen simultaneously and tick period stays a consistent 2000ms regardless of blocking and sprinting.

So indeed it's fully possible to block for the major part of each 2000ms then drop block until the tick and keep blocking after that.

My test version already provides a metronome for the ticks:)

edit: adding different sounds if you actually get the tick and if the tick was wasted while blocking/sprinting.

Waffennacht

For console, if I slot frost staff and roll Dodge, the block connection will just stop my mag regen and not my Stam correct?

Durham

There is a reason why 70% of the PVP population is magicka, NB account for the core of the stam builds ... I would say 80% of your Dk's are magicka... 90% of temps are magicka... probably 70% of sorcs are magicka..... this is just from what I'm seeing... Wardens I see mostly magicka atm ... NB are really the most effective stam class atm...

HiImRex

Dorrino wrote: »

Ok, so far i can confirm everything is the post regarding mag/stam/hp regen.

Ticks for all 3 resources happen simultaneously and tick period stays a consistent 2000ms regardless of blocking and sprinting.

So indeed it's fully possible to block for the major part of each 2000ms then drop block until the tick and keep blocking after that.

My test version already provides a metronome for the ticks:)

edit: adding different sounds if you actually get the tick and if the tick was wasted while blocking/sprinting.

ooh exciting news. I look forward to seeing the final product!

Thread was fully worth now

dodgehopper_ESO

It is a good point and I believe the plug is warranted but this sort of nonsense is precisely why I was against the nullified stamina regeneration to begin with. Its a bad system and I really hope that some day ZoS rethinks the nonsense that is 0 regeneration for something a little more reasonable.

Alite

Dorrino wrote: »

Ok, so far i can confirm everything is the post regarding mag/stam/hp regen.

Ticks for all 3 resources happen simultaneously and tick period stays a consistent 2000ms regardless of blocking and sprinting.

So indeed it's fully possible to block for the major part of each 2000ms then drop block until the tick and keep blocking after that.

My test version already provides a metronome for the ticks:)

edit: adding different sounds if you actually get the tick and if the tick was wasted while blocking/sprinting.

I would suggest adding a visual indicator that shows when the tick is incoming for those that don't want to rely on a audio indicator. Otherwise, looking forward to what you can make!

Thogard

Alite wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Ok, so far i can confirm everything is the post regarding mag/stam/hp regen.

Ticks for all 3 resources happen simultaneously and tick period stays a consistent 2000ms regardless of blocking and sprinting.

So indeed it's fully possible to block for the major part of each 2000ms then drop block until the tick and keep blocking after that.

My test version already provides a metronome for the ticks:)

edit: adding different sounds if you actually get the tick and if the tick was wasted while blocking/sprinting.

I would suggest adding a visual indicator that shows when the tick is incoming for those that don't want to rely on a audio indicator. Otherwise, looking forward to what you can make!

Get combat reticle add on. Set animation speed on second overlay reticle image for 2s. Enjoy.

rfennell_ESO

HiImRex wrote: »

Many, many words... all of them extremely helpful

It's a great post you made there, lots of great information.

Dorrino

Thogard wrote: »

Alite wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Ok, so far i can confirm everything is the post regarding mag/stam/hp regen.

Ticks for all 3 resources happen simultaneously and tick period stays a consistent 2000ms regardless of blocking and sprinting.

So indeed it's fully possible to block for the major part of each 2000ms then drop block until the tick and keep blocking after that.

My test version already provides a metronome for the ticks:)

edit: adding different sounds if you actually get the tick and if the tick was wasted while blocking/sprinting.

I would suggest adding a visual indicator that shows when the tick is incoming for those that don't want to rely on a audio indicator. Otherwise, looking forward to what you can make!

Get combat reticle add on. Set animation speed on second overlay reticle image for 2s. Enjoy.

@Thogard

Won't work, because you don't know then to start the animation. It has to be synced to the ticks.

Thogard

Dorrino wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Alite wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Ok, so far i can confirm everything is the post regarding mag/stam/hp regen.

Ticks for all 3 resources happen simultaneously and tick period stays a consistent 2000ms regardless of blocking and sprinting.

So indeed it's fully possible to block for the major part of each 2000ms then drop block until the tick and keep blocking after that.

My test version already provides a metronome for the ticks:)

edit: adding different sounds if you actually get the tick and if the tick was wasted while blocking/sprinting.

I would suggest adding a visual indicator that shows when the tick is incoming for those that don't want to rely on a audio indicator. Otherwise, looking forward to what you can make!

Get combat reticle add on. Set animation speed on second overlay reticle image for 2s. Enjoy.

@Thogard

Won't work, because you don't know then to start the animation. It has to be synced to the ticks.

It will be sync'd with the moment you enter combat... are the ticks not sync'd with that?

Dorrino

Thogard wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Alite wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Ok, so far i can confirm everything is the post regarding mag/stam/hp regen.

Ticks for all 3 resources happen simultaneously and tick period stays a consistent 2000ms regardless of blocking and sprinting.

So indeed it's fully possible to block for the major part of each 2000ms then drop block until the tick and keep blocking after that.

My test version already provides a metronome for the ticks:)

edit: adding different sounds if you actually get the tick and if the tick was wasted while blocking/sprinting.

I would suggest adding a visual indicator that shows when the tick is incoming for those that don't want to rely on a audio indicator. Otherwise, looking forward to what you can make!

Get combat reticle add on. Set animation speed on second overlay reticle image for 2s. Enjoy.

@Thogard

Won't work, because you don't know then to start the animation. It has to be synced to the ticks.

It will be sync'd with the moment you enter combat... are the ticks not sync'd with that?

@Thogard

Not at all:D

They start at some moment after you log in on a character. And they are synced to that moment:)

Unfortunately it's not player activated event, so right now i detect when the first tick for the amount of players current stam regen happens and then count from there.

Precise period of 2000ms, tested for 3-4 hours.

To elaborate a little bit:

The game doesn't tell addons that 'here's your regen tick'. Not in the slightest. What it tells them is 'Here's your new stamina amount'. Not even the increment:)

So what i achieved by now is tracking the moment when ticks happen. Unfortunately, sometimes the game tells the addons (and default ui) that 'Here's your new stam amount' and immediately after that 'Oops, my bad, HERE'S your new stam amount':)

What it does it first adds your stam regen value to you current stam (and ui shows that) and after that it subtracts the same amount:) You can see that on your bars.

So tracking if you actually get the tick or it was blocked/sprinted etc might be hard.

But just sounds/visuals for when the ticks happen - that's easy.

HiImRex

Totally noticed the stam bar fluctuating while practicing with timing my blocks/sprints. Good to know it's not just my UI addons bugging out but the base game.

cschwingeb14_ESO

FYI, this also happens with stealth, as well as blocking and sprinting. I used to zip around in stealth, pausing every 2 seconds to regain stamina, all the time even in magicka builds. Less necessary now with TG stealth cost reduction passive

It's easy to watch regen ticks in stealth out of combat.

Xvorg

Waffennacht wrote: »

I noticed this too, it's VERY difficult to try and time on your own.

But as a mag player...

What's this b-b-block you speak of?

Something that they do with a piece of wood they call a "Shield" xD