Ignored the game for years because of forum snobs it seems.

DeathHouseInc

All I ever read on forums was how this game was absolutely nothing to do with ES series. It really put me off and I played many other MMO's instead. Even my own brother hated on this one and I am pretty positive that is only because he was trying to play this on a console which I just cannot seem to fathom even though they definitely and unfortunately to me tried to design around it. What an awesome game very true to ES series in lore, art, and style. I have now played about 100+ hours and have 2 level 40's many 30's and what not. I have no idea what the hell people were griping about the game not being like ES at all? Sure the mechanics aren't, but the mechanics were awful in the original compared to many MMO's in my time and what you guys have done in this one. The mechanics in this one are leaps and bounds better than any ES game. I have been an ES since the first. I think I beat oblivion 40+ times (sick I know). While there are some improvements that could be done you guys have a very solid base here.

My gripes:

1. I hate feeling nickel and dimed in this game and SWTOR. It's frustrating as hell. I would much rather pay an upfront large subscriber fee than have to keep accounting of what is spent on this one...of course you guys know that and know most people will be willing to spend more if you bury it like our government does with 389741298741098 taxes on everything instead of a straight bill. I don't like feeling like I am being conned and I do in this game and I do see how much I spend on it...Stuff in the ESO store is generally ridiculously expensive...I feel like we are paying for all the 'free loaders'.

2. Archers suck and it's my favorite class...please up the bow damage by either adding a skill or change some morph's so we have more viable options, or up dmg of existing skills.

3. I feel so damn limited with only 5 skills on the bars...incredibly frustrating and pisses me off to think this was a result of trying to design around consoles...It's really frustrating having 2 different bars and some of the same skills in some case son both bars but in different spots because they have to be...7 would be great or have an opt out of the second bar and extend the first bar as payback.

4. I won't stay with a game very long if PvP isn't a serious part of the game. Fun competition and the camaraderie and loyalty that PvP can foster and that I have experienced is impossible for me to go without anymore when it comes to an MMO. When politics and factions aren't forced upon the playerbase and FFA servers are provided a whole new level of awesome is opened up. I hate permanent forced factions and faux engineered hated doesn't make much of an adversary...I like the chance of traitors, thieves, and what not. I like when guilds and friends REALLY matter. They just don't in modern day MMO's. I like when your death matters, but isn't catastrophic. I am not saying do this with all servers, but one server would be nice...

Other than that what an incredible job on story, environments, and really making it Elder Scrolls. I am extremely impressed and this is coming from someone who quit the first day of playing a few months back only to force my self to give it a week like I do with all mmo's, because I have quickly played several and did not like them and they ended up being 10+ year long gaming experiences for me in the end.

Had Asheron's Call Darktide server not been shut down I would still be there 15+ years strong...that's the type of environment point #4 can spurn...

geonsocal

good for you for giving eso a try...

the game itself looks great...definitely issues though (as with other games also)...

hope you find the PvP experience you're looking for...

Balsagna

long story short, I don't think ESO is going to provide the experience you want. I think you have it confused with a game that doesn't exist.

Stovahkiin

PvP here in eso can be great, but it can be annoying with the occasional lag episodes, among other things. There are good guilds out there, but from what I've seen they do get buried under all of the crappy trial and trade guilds out there.

Doctordarkspawn

Firstly, "Fun competition and the camaraderie and loyalty that PvP can foster and that I have experienced is impossible for me to go without anymore when it comes to an MMO." Yeah good for you, the only experience I've got from PVP is the experience geting trolled, geting death threats and being told I dont know anything about PVP.

This game isn't gonna expand it's bars, either, it's allways been marketed as a fast paced, action MMO which it has slowly dialed itself down from.

Otherwise, your complaints are legit enough.

DeathHouseInc

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Firstly, "Fun competition and the camaraderie and loyalty that PvP can foster and that I have experienced is impossible for me to go without anymore when it comes to an MMO." Yeah good for you, the only experience I've got from PVP is the experience geting trolled, geting death threats and being told I dont know anything about PVP.

This game isn't gonna expand it's bars, either, it's allways been marketed as a fast paced, action MMO which it has slowly dialed itself down from.

Otherwise, your complaints are legit enough.

1. No doubt I expect many to not share my fun experiences throughout the 18 years I have played mmo's or my want for a PvP server. Note I wanted them to do it, but as a separate server so people can choose. I hate forcing things upon people and love giving options when possible.

In Asheron's call which was the best PvP I have ever experienced in any game you had the choice to play the type of server you wanted. You rarely get that these days. I fully realize they will probably never do this, but I definitely think voicing your honest opinions and experiences of things when giving feedback to be very relevant and key to providing valuable feedback.

2. It may have been marketed in such a way and that is fine, but how would having an extra option or two for skills to use slow things down? Hell look at APS in combat in SWTOR lol..I use 12+ skills and 20+ keys easy and no mouse in that one and doesn't slow things a bit...That was actually another gripe I wanted to add is that there is no keyboard only mode... Mouses are so damn limiting and really hamstring skill...

To me it isn't a slow down to have more skill options in combat, and to have less skills isn't a quickening of combat to me it's more like they dumbed the game down too much and did it for con$oles because of controller limitations...

Balsagna wrote: »

long story short, I don't think ESO is going to provide the experience you want. I think you have it confused with a game that doesn't exist.

Hah, yes I know in the long term it won't be a game like other's I have stuck with for over a decade, especially with the lack of social cohesion all these modern mmo's foster and promote as better, but it is still an awesome game in it's own right and well worth playing. I expect it to last me a year or year and half like SWTOR and WoW did for reasons I have listed and few others...It's worth playing the expansions of those a lot of times for story, but certainly doesn't foster long term fun.

And yes they don't make a game like I love these days anymore, but they are typically well worth playing for story. I am having a blast in this one and had a blast in SWTOR too. There isn't anything really good or better out there and that is why I am here in the first place /shrug.

mesmerizedish

The limit on how many skills you can have slotted has nothing to do with consoles. The game wasn't even ported to consoles for over a year.

Abeille

Honestly, the people who say this game has "nothing to do with the ES series" probably only played one Elder Scrolls game. I'll let you guess which one.

DeathHouseInc

Yeah I know but they had to have planned console release from beginning I would think? You don't just make a game multi platform half way through development I wouldn't think? Either way 5 skills is really bland..especially when a lot of times 1-2 of them are static buffs...I will say I have my gripes but I am still having fun...Just think it could be better.

Vajrak

DeathHouseInc wrote: »

1. I hate feeling nickel and dimed in this game and SWTOR. It's frustrating as hell. I would much rather pay an upfront large subscriber fee than have to keep accounting of what is spent on this one...of course you guys know that and know most people will be willing to spend more if you bury it like our government does with 389741298741098 taxes on everything instead of a straight bill. I don't like feeling like I am being conned and I do in this game and I do see how much I spend on it...Stuff in the ESO store is generally ridiculously expensive...I feel like we are paying for all the 'free loaders'.

How exactly are you being "nickel and dimed"? There is nothing in the store that is necessary to play the game, nor to be competitive in content. It's primarily cosmetics. Even the ESO+ crafting bag isn't a necessity, it just makes things easier for inventory management purposes -- and that's for the sub, not purchasable through the store. So your complaint is that completely unnecessary and optional cosmetics cost too much?

DeathHouseInc wrote: »

2. Archers suck and it's my favorite class...please up the bow damage by either adding a skill or change some morph's so we have more viable options, or up dmg of existing skills.

"Archer" isn't a class in this game, it is a play style, and I've seen archers do some very impressive things in terms of damage output and survival. This isn't a typical "classic trinity" with well established all target hate where you can spam all your skills because the tank has every possible mob on them. Bow damage is actually in a very good place, it has a skill that ramps up the damage for using auto-attacks, has good AoE skills and some decent single target, at the cost of it being a small channel. So just like with most damage combos, it's going to rely on you having your DoTs in place before executing your spammable. You have lower damage for range, because of the extra margin of safety you get over melee; that is pretty decently balanced (and yes, I do have a character that focuses on bow/bow bars, it's fun to play sometimes).

DeathHouseInc wrote: »

3. I feel so damn limited with only 5 skills on the bars...incredibly frustrating and pisses me off to think this was a result of trying to design around consoles...It's really frustrating having 2 different bars and some of the same skills in some case son both bars but in different spots because they have to be...7 would be great or have an opt out of the second bar and extend the first bar as payback.

The 5 skills+ult has nothing to do with design around consoles. It is designed around the lack of cooldown/minimal cooldown on skill usage, and requires you to actually think about what skills you are putting on your bar. Especially since a lot of bonuses can be stacked with multiple skills -- Mages guild giving mag pool/recovery, Fighters guild giving weapon damage, Nightblade Assassination giving crit rate, Sorcerers getting general weapon/spell damage buff per class skill, Dragonknights being able to proc stam returns with ...I think it's Earthen Heart skills. Having that 5 skill limit makes you have to really prioritize what you are putting on your bar, not just dump everything on.

DeathHouseInc wrote: »

4. I won't stay with a game very long if PvP isn't a serious part of the game. Fun competition and the camaraderie and loyalty that PvP can foster and that I have experienced is impossible for me to go without anymore when it comes to an MMO. When politics and factions aren't forced upon the playerbase and FFA servers are provided a whole new level of awesome is opened up. I hate permanent forced factions and faux engineered hated doesn't make much of an adversary...I like the chance of traitors, thieves, and what not. I like when guilds and friends REALLY matter. They just don't in modern day MMO's. I like when your death matters, but isn't catastrophic. I am not saying do this with all servers, but one server would be nice...

PVP is a part of ESO, but it isn't it's primary focus. You want traitors/thieves/"what not" -- that's why people have multiple characters in different factions. "Forced Factions" -- all I'm going to say to that is 'For the Horde'. It's not something new or unique to ESO, and if you follow the various stories of the alliances, you likely will find one that you sympathize with a bit more than the other. Join a PvP focused guild, and you get that same competition, camaraderie, and loyalty that you are looking for. Nothing is stopping you from bringing your character to Cyrodil and staying there; there are quests and the zone is pretty large, enough to explore/grind in while being on an open pvp server for all intents and purposes.

So, to each of our points, on the TL;DR version --
1) They are mostly cosmetic/not necessary to anything, and don't give any real buff to playing content/pvp.
2) Archer is a play style, and can be competitive bow/bow once you learn how to utilize it properly.
3) 5 skills+ult is a limiter on the combat mechanics and stacking, nothing to do with console portability.
4) Already exists, you just haven't looked in the right place.

AcadianPaladin

Good on you, OP, for trying the game and forming your own opinions!

WuffyCerulei

The PvP community is fortunately not that toxic here. Hope it goes well for ya!

idk

1. Sub and do not stress about the crown store. Really not needed. You are only nickle and dimed if you choose to be. SWTOR was sub only and still charged for their annual expansion. Sub here, buy annual chapter. Same.
2. Bow is solid if played correctly. http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/
3. If having access to only 10 skills and 2 ultimate slots at a time is to much do not play. It is not a big deal. Most of those skills you had on your screen for WoW and SWTOR were rarely used. Having limited skill slots makes us choose what we want for a given situation. It works, but if someone does not like it they have other games to choose from. When I returned to SWTOR I had no use for 10 million skills at my fingertips. I learned to choose better.
4. This game is not for you. Alliance loyalty is not forced across all characters on an account. GL finding a game that has that.

Just FYI, there really was no reason for you to post all that. There are other games for you to play. Your comments will change nothing and frankly it is odd you think we might be concerned or interested. Move on and find another game.

BTW, it is usually a good idea to give a game a chance before being critical of it.

Malic

ESO PVP is like golf.

Its frustrating as hell but once in a while you make an incredible shot thats nearly perfect. You birdie a Par 4 or you hit the green on a par 3 and two putt.

ESO has some good PVP in cyrodiil. Sometimes you'll get spectacular 3v3's a surprise 1v1, more often then not though you slice the *** out of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5u7yZiV3bI

Curragraigue

DeathHouseInc wrote: »

Yeah I know but they had to have planned console release from beginning I would think? You don't just make a game multi platform half way through development I wouldn't think? Either way 5 skills is really bland..especially when a lot of times 1-2 of them are static buffs...I will say I have my gripes but I am still having fun...Just think it could be better.

No they didn't. They planned on releasing the game only on PC. A Sony exec talked them into releasing on console after the game was designed. Devs always only wanted 5 skills plus an ult on each bar.

If you play a Sorc with overload you can have 15 skill slots BTW.

mesmerizedish

Curragraigue wrote: »

DeathHouseInc wrote: »

Yeah I know but they had to have planned console release from beginning I would think? You don't just make a game multi platform half way through development I wouldn't think? Either way 5 skills is really bland..especially when a lot of times 1-2 of them are static buffs...I will say I have my gripes but I am still having fun...Just think it could be better.

No they didn't. They planned on releasing the game only on PC. A Sony exec talked them into releasing on console after the game was designed. Devs always only wanted 5 skills plus an ult on each bar.

If you play a Sorc with overload you can have 15 skill slots BTW.

Well, it's not true that they ALWAYS wanted the 5/1 skill bar. Early in development they had a more traditional MMO action bar and decided it didn't feel like Elder Scrolls. What we've ended up with is a compromise between a traditional MMO (tons of abilities) and the single-player TES games (zero abilities).

SirAndy

DeathHouseInc wrote: »

2. Archers suck and it's my favorite class...

If your archer sucks, you're not playing him/her correctly ...

KingYogi415

If you pvp join a zerg, pour oil, it's how all of us started.

GeorgeBlack

More PvP plz.
+1 OP. My thoughts exactly. Artificial rivalry is bogus. In PvP everybody joins the faction with most activity and farms AP to build their 9 toons across the three alliances. Then at peak hour you will find good sieges and fights. But it's pointless since Ap farmers have capped the map and declared the campaign winner at downtime. No loyalty, no purpose. Cyrodiil is a big AvAvA battleground.

Rivalry between guilds and hunting zone capping is much more meaningful than "I feel like PvP!! I'm gona Enter Cyrodiil!!"
PvE zone for those that don't PvP (enjoy farming with KS).

Most fun I had in Eso PvP was exploring Cyrodiil where when faced with an enemy I had to fight to remain alive in the area.
And then Imperial City where I had to fight to farm in the area.

"I feel like entering Cyrodiil!!"
Ye that's a battleground.

DaveMoeDee

DeathHouseInc wrote: »

2. It may have been marketed in such a way and that is fine, but how would having an extra option or two for skills to use slow things down? Hell look at APS in combat in SWTOR lol..I use 12+ skills and 20+ keys easy and no mouse in that one and doesn't slow things a bit...That was actually another gripe I wanted to add is that there is no keyboard only mode... Mouses are so damn limiting and really hamstring skill...

To me it isn't a slow down to have more skill options in combat, and to have less skills isn't a quickening of combat to me it's more like they dumbed the game down too much and did it for con$oles because of controller limitations...

You answered your own question. If you can't reasonably accommodate more skills on a controller, it isn't going to happen. It is pointless to rehash this.

And many of us don't want 30 skill buttons running along the bottom of our screen. Dragon Age is a different IP.

Phica_Lovic

LOL'ed at "Even my brother" and "I beat oblivion like 40 times".

Curragraigue

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

DeathHouseInc wrote: »

Yeah I know but they had to have planned console release from beginning I would think? You don't just make a game multi platform half way through development I wouldn't think? Either way 5 skills is really bland..especially when a lot of times 1-2 of them are static buffs...I will say I have my gripes but I am still having fun...Just think it could be better.

No they didn't. They planned on releasing the game only on PC. A Sony exec talked them into releasing on console after the game was designed. Devs always only wanted 5 skills plus an ult on each bar.

If you play a Sorc with overload you can have 15 skill slots BTW.

Well, it's not true that they ALWAYS wanted the 5/1 skill bar. Early in development they had a more traditional MMO action bar and decided it didn't feel like Elder Scrolls. What we've ended up with is a compromise between a traditional MMO (tons of abilities) and the single-player TES games (zero abilities).

If you go back to the 2014-2015 threads when this issue was first raised lots of links to Paul Sage and Matt Frior confirming that the ability bar limitations were what they wanted. The ability bar layout was finalised before the decision to port the game to console. I'm not in the development team nor was I in the closed beta so I can't say whether it was always that way in development but for the purpose of my response it was always the layout they were going to go with at the point in time when they decided to port the game which was my point. Console release had nothing to do with the number of abilities on bar decision.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

DeathHouseInc wrote: »

2. It may have been marketed in such a way and that is fine, but how would having an extra option or two for skills to use slow things down? Hell look at APS in combat in SWTOR lol..I use 12+ skills and 20+ keys easy and no mouse in that one and doesn't slow things a bit...That was actually another gripe I wanted to add is that there is no keyboard only mode... Mouses are so damn limiting and really hamstring skill...

To me it isn't a slow down to have more skill options in combat, and to have less skills isn't a quickening of combat to me it's more like they dumbed the game down too much and did it for con$oles because of controller limitations...

You answered your own question. If you can't reasonably accommodate more skills on a controller, it isn't going to happen. It is pointless to rehash this.

And many of us don't want 30 skill buttons running along the bottom of our screen. Dragon Age is a different IP.

They can accommodate more skills if they wanted to to the controller. Lots of games map actions to pressing more than one button or radials for out of action tasks. They could easily incorporate more skills to the controller if they wanted to they just clearly do not want to because they have balanced the game based on the current configuration.

Osteos

I love the pvp in this game. I have been hooked since I first went to Cyrodiil and saw a siege taking place. Not going to lie it has had some serious issues and a lot of players have come and gone over the years.

Definitely start in the low level pvp campaign. I forget what its called now, used to be Blackwater Blade. Its a fun campaign and has some really great people in it. Also be ready to die a lot. You will

The PvP community is great. These forums often paint us in an ugly light. Most of those people don't even pvp. We aren't the boogeymen they claim us to be. I'm a DC only player but I would encourage you to try the different faction and find were you feel the most at home.

See you on the battlefield!

Jitterbug

I like the 5 skill system and I hate the bloated ui of games like WoW with 37 keybinds. And yeah, this is indeed very ES. I know dwemer mounts arent 100% lore but I just view that like crazy mods for skyrim.

KingYogi415

Forums are filled with trash players spewing their trash ideas.

Forum rule #1:

Don't believe anything you read!

ZOS_Bill

We are closing this thread because of the baiting title along with this discussion possibly being misconstrued as quitting. Feedback on ESO is always welcome, just be sure to follow the forum rules and keep things constructive.