Open letter

GeorgeBlack

@Chameleonas

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/348281/why-two-handed-melee-weapons-are-forgotten-and-ignored/p1

People no longer care for the fantasy concept. They just care to win.
1)They don't play with the weapon and armor they like. They copy metas.
2)They don't practice combat. They just crunch numbers, or read such researchers by others.
3)They don't stick to their playstyle through ups and downs.
4)They prefer passive damage (procs) and passive damage mitigation (Shuffle) no matter their class.
5)They embrace a flawed combat system that makes animations useless, as long as they can beat those that don't practice YET animation cancelling.
6)They would abandon their playstyle for one that works better with animation cancelling.
This is the feedback we give ZOS.

They won't make changes to promote your agile assassin, or the raging berserk warrior.
Because people want the 1shooter and the 1vXer

Turelus

This is the same in any game which has competitive elements, however how you play depends on how competitive you want to be.

If you want to challenge the likes of HODOR for world firsts then yeah, you're going to min/max like crazy. If you just want to do vet trials with your guild and clear it, then you probably can actually do that with a hyrbrid build.

This is just the entire "scrub" mentality from this: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Trying to make it sound like playing to win is bad and limiting ones self with rules.

GeorgeBlack

Turelus wrote: »

This is the same in any game which has competitive elements, however how you play depends on how competitive you want to be.

If you want to challenge the likes of HODOR for world firsts then yeah, you're going to min/max like crazy. If you just want to do vet trials with your guild and clear it, then you probably can actually do that with a hyrbrid build.

This is just the entire "scrub" mentality from this: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Trying to make it sound like playing to win is bad and limiting ones self with rules.

Toxic vomit as usual. "The scrub". How rude. The likes of you don't need introduction. Major network cartoonists have made episodes depicting the likes of you. Millions have laughed.

Ostaradoe

Who is this 'they' you speak of?

GeorgeBlack

Ostaradoe wrote: »

Who is this 'they' you speak of?

"The others..."

Ch4mpTW

Yeeeeah! You know why I'm here. Lol. The comments section.

Rohamad_Ali

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Yeeeeah! You know why I'm here. Lol. The comments section.

Pass me some , this gettin good .

Turelus

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

This is the same in any game which has competitive elements, however how you play depends on how competitive you want to be.

If you want to challenge the likes of HODOR for world firsts then yeah, you're going to min/max like crazy. If you just want to do vet trials with your guild and clear it, then you probably can actually do that with a hyrbrid build.

This is just the entire "scrub" mentality from this: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Trying to make it sound like playing to win is bad and limiting ones self with rules.

Toxic vomit as usual. "The scrub". How rude. The likes of you don't need introduction. Major network cartoonists have made episodes for the likes of you.

*sigh* try reading the article, it's actually very enlightening and at no point have I called you or anyone else a scrub.
If someone reads that article and feels they fall under that then maybe they are under the article writers definition, I used to be until I read it and realised my own mistakes.

GeorgeBlack

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Yeeeeah! You know why I'm here. Lol. The comments section.

Pass me some , this gettin good .

Sneaking food is not allowed.

GeorgeBlack

Turelus wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

This is the same in any game which has competitive elements, however how you play depends on how competitive you want to be.

If you want to challenge the likes of HODOR for world firsts then yeah, you're going to min/max like crazy. If you just want to do vet trials with your guild and clear it, then you probably can actually do that with a hyrbrid build.

This is just the entire "scrub" mentality from this: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Trying to make it sound like playing to win is bad and limiting ones self with rules.

Toxic vomit as usual. "The scrub". How rude. The likes of you don't need introduction. Major network cartoonists have made episodes for the likes of you.

*sigh* try reading the article, it's actually very enlightening and at no point have I called you or anyone else a scrub.
If someone reads that article and feels they fall under that then maybe they are under the article writers definition, I used to be until I read it and realised my own mistakes.

I didn't read it. It had a distasteful title.

Turelus

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

This is the same in any game which has competitive elements, however how you play depends on how competitive you want to be.

If you want to challenge the likes of HODOR for world firsts then yeah, you're going to min/max like crazy. If you just want to do vet trials with your guild and clear it, then you probably can actually do that with a hyrbrid build.

This is just the entire "scrub" mentality from this: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Trying to make it sound like playing to win is bad and limiting ones self with rules.

Toxic vomit as usual. "The scrub". How rude. The likes of you don't need introduction. Major network cartoonists have made episodes for the likes of you.

*sigh* try reading the article, it's actually very enlightening and at no point have I called you or anyone else a scrub.
If someone reads that article and feels they fall under that then maybe they are under the article writers definition, I used to be until I read it and realised my own mistakes.

I didn't read it. It had a distasteful title.

Replace the word scrub for "butterfly" then and go and read it. The points will still be the same without the distasteful words.

Dracindo

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Ostaradoe wrote: »

Who is this 'they' you speak of?

"The others..."

You know, "they"... They who killed Kenny... They're ***...

Was trying to find the right image, but I failed.

GeorgeBlack

Turelus wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

This is the same in any game which has competitive elements, however how you play depends on how competitive you want to be.

If you want to challenge the likes of HODOR for world firsts then yeah, you're going to min/max like crazy. If you just want to do vet trials with your guild and clear it, then you probably can actually do that with a hyrbrid build.

This is just the entire "scrub" mentality from this: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Trying to make it sound like playing to win is bad and limiting ones self with rules.

Toxic vomit as usual. "The scrub". How rude. The likes of you don't need introduction. Major network cartoonists have made episodes for the likes of you.

*sigh* try reading the article, it's actually very enlightening and at no point have I called you or anyone else a scrub.
If someone reads that article and feels they fall under that then maybe they are under the article writers definition, I used to be until I read it and realised my own mistakes.

I didn't read it. It had a distasteful title.

Replace the word scrub for "butterfly" then and go and read it. The points will still be the same without the distasteful words.

Nope. You need to accept that there are different categories of people. I for one cannot fathom acting/role playing in mmorpgs.

GeorgeBlack

Edit. Double post.

GeorgeBlack

@Dracindo

I'm... lost

Kram8ion

Oh and it was promising too now I'll have to go read about lag issues

Sigtric

Turelus wrote: »

This is the same in any game which has competitive elements, however how you play depends on how competitive you want to be.

If you want to challenge the likes of HODOR for world firsts then yeah, you're going to min/max like crazy. If you just want to do vet trials with your guild and clear it, then you probably can actually do that with a hyrbrid build.

This is just the entire "scrub" mentality from this: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Trying to make it sound like playing to win is bad and limiting ones self with rules.

This link is brilliant.

Turelus

So, what's the actual complaint in this thread?

Rohamad_Ali

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

This is the same in any game which has competitive elements, however how you play depends on how competitive you want to be.

If you want to challenge the likes of HODOR for world firsts then yeah, you're going to min/max like crazy. If you just want to do vet trials with your guild and clear it, then you probably can actually do that with a hyrbrid build.

This is just the entire "scrub" mentality from this: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Trying to make it sound like playing to win is bad and limiting ones self with rules.

Toxic vomit as usual. "The scrub". How rude. The likes of you don't need introduction. Major network cartoonists have made episodes for the likes of you.

*sigh* try reading the article, it's actually very enlightening and at no point have I called you or anyone else a scrub.
If someone reads that article and feels they fall under that then maybe they are under the article writers definition, I used to be until I read it and realised my own mistakes.

I didn't read it. It had a distasteful title.

Replace the word scrub for "butterfly" then and go and read it. The points will still be the same without the distasteful words.

Nope. You need to accept that there are different categories of people. I for one cannot fathom acting/role playing in mmorpgs.

GeorgeBlack

It's an open letter to chameleonas.

Beardimus

^ I'm with you there

OP i read that first post and agreed with every line actually, you made sense. However then you just seem to have descended into an argument with yourself.

Unsure what the thread is really about now. @Turelus was not being toxic or insulting you but adding to your point regarding perception and possible viewpoints of the difffering players objectives.

Confused.com

Thogard

Pretty sure in the fantasy world, people like winning too. Not sure what kind of fantasy world OP is living in. Or should i say fantasy fantasy world? Is his ideal fantasy a world where everyone lets him win?

Turelus

@Beardimus this is generally how most of the OP's threads go. Starting off with a rant which is on point, then breaking down into attacking/debating everyone who doesn't agree, later becoming a huge debate and argument over something which isn't even the point of the topic.

I really have no idea, just figured I would post my thoughts but they're never welcome.

Sigtric

Anyone feel like having a cheeseburger? I'd die for one right now.

Turelus

Sigtric wrote: »

Anyone feel like having a cheeseburger? I'd die for one right now.

It's like 08:56 in the morning but yeah I could go for one.

ATM I have a coffee and an apple, yay healthy eating!

WildWilbur

Dracindo wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Ostaradoe wrote: »

Who is this 'they' you speak of?

"The others..."

You know, "they"... They who killed Kenny... They're ***...

Was trying to find the right image, but I failed.

THAT was missing as I saw a newer Southpark Episode lately - what happened to Kenny?

Jeremy

Turelus wrote: »

@Beardimus this is generally how most of the OP's threads go. Starting off with a rant which is on point, then breaking down into attacking/debating everyone who doesn't agree, later becoming a huge debate and argument over something which isn't even the point of the topic.

I really have no idea, just figured I would post my thoughts but they're never welcome.

I found your post interesting. So your thoughts are welcome - at least by this poster.

The OP just misunderstood your comment and thought you were referring to him as a scrub. It's an easy enough mistake to make on a forum where thoughts can often-times be misunderstood.

Jeremy

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@Chameleonas

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/348281/why-two-handed-melee-weapons-are-forgotten-and-ignored/p1

People no longer care for the fantasy concept. They just care to win.
1)They don't play with the weapon and armor they like. They copy metas.
2)They don't practice combat. They just crunch numbers, or read such researchers by others.
3)They don't stick to their playstyle through ups and downs.
4)They prefer passive damage (procs) and passive damage mitigation (Shuffle) no matter their class.
5)They embrace a flawed combat system that makes animations useless, as long as they can beat those that don't practice YET animation cancelling.
6)They would abandon their playstyle for one that works better with animation cancelling.
This is the feedback we give ZOS.

They won't make changes to promote your agile assassin, or the raging berserk warrior.
Because people want the 1shooter and the 1vXer

There are still those of us who actually play games to have fun.

Part of the problem is that fiercely competitive players are often-times bullies as well - and treat fellow players who don't take the game as seriously as them with disdain. This compounds the problem - and often encourages players to conform so the risk of being treated badly is lessened.

ZOS is also to blame - because they allow addons like DPS meters which is like pouring gasoline on a fire.

MarzAttakz

Turelus wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

This is the same in any game which has competitive elements, however how you play depends on how competitive you want to be.

If you want to challenge the likes of HODOR for world firsts then yeah, you're going to min/max like crazy. If you just want to do vet trials with your guild and clear it, then you probably can actually do that with a hyrbrid build.

This is just the entire "scrub" mentality from this: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Trying to make it sound like playing to win is bad and limiting ones self with rules.

Toxic vomit as usual. "The scrub". How rude. The likes of you don't need introduction. Major network cartoonists have made episodes for the likes of you.

*sigh* try reading the article, it's actually very enlightening and at no point have I called you or anyone else a scrub.
If someone reads that article and feels they fall under that then maybe they are under the article writers definition, I used to be until I read it and realised my own mistakes.

You know man, usually I love your posts, but here I'm going to disagree with you.

Yes I agree there are different types, having played in this genre for going on close to 15 years now I recognise what that article describes, it was an interesting read, but I don't think it approaches the subject from a broad enough perspective.

• 15 years ago I played competitively, I played to win, scrubs be damned.
• 10 years ago I played competitvely but no longer felt I had to prove myself, I played to win with certain groups and played to have fun with others.
• 5 years ago I played to my own standard, I played to have fun, scrubs or not it didn't matter
• NOW I play to my own standard, I play to relax, and I place more value on tenacity, perseverance, willingness and manners.

You see, those "SCRUBS" - the ones lacking the "talent" to play competitively, hamstrung by "self-imposed" rules or just a general mindset are the people still around, the people with good attitude's, the people actually having fun doing something they enjoy.

Most of the "eL33T$" I used to play with are burnt-out joyless husks with RL complexes who drama-queen their way from game to game, challenge to challenge, proving ground to proving ground in a futile attempt at finding self-worth through playing to win.

Scrub-life didn't choose me, I choose it myself.

STEVIL

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@Chameleonas

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/348281/why-two-handed-melee-weapons-are-forgotten-and-ignored/p1

Some people People no longer care for the fantasy concept. Some of them They just care to win.
1)Some of them They don't play with the weapon and armor they like. Some of them They copy metas.
2)Some of them They don't practice combat. Some of them They just crunch numbers, or read such researchers by others.
3)Some of them They don't stick to their playstyle through ups and downs.
4)Some of them They prefer passive damage (procs) and passive damage mitigation (Shuffle) no matter their class.
5)Some of them They embrace a flawed combat system that makes animations useless, as long as they can beat those that don't practice YET animation cancelling.
6)Some of them They would abandon their playstyle for one that works better with animation cancelling.
This is the feedback we give ZOS.

They won't make changes to promote your agile assassin, or the raging berserk warrior.
Because people want the 1shooter and the 1vXer

fixed for you.

You're Welcome.

Turelus

MarzAttakz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

This is the same in any game which has competitive elements, however how you play depends on how competitive you want to be.

If you want to challenge the likes of HODOR for world firsts then yeah, you're going to min/max like crazy. If you just want to do vet trials with your guild and clear it, then you probably can actually do that with a hyrbrid build.

This is just the entire "scrub" mentality from this: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Trying to make it sound like playing to win is bad and limiting ones self with rules.

Toxic vomit as usual. "The scrub". How rude. The likes of you don't need introduction. Major network cartoonists have made episodes for the likes of you.

*sigh* try reading the article, it's actually very enlightening and at no point have I called you or anyone else a scrub.
If someone reads that article and feels they fall under that then maybe they are under the article writers definition, I used to be until I read it and realised my own mistakes.

You know man, usually I love your posts, but here I'm going to disagree with you.

Yes I agree there are different types, having played in this genre for going on close to 15 years now I recognise what that article describes, it was an interesting read, but I don't think it approaches the subject from a broad enough perspective.

• 15 years ago I played competitively, I played to win, scrubs be damned.
• 10 years ago I played competitvely but no longer felt I had to prove myself, I played to win with certain groups and played to have fun with others.
• 5 years ago I played to my own standard, I played to have fun, scrubs or not it didn't matter
• NOW I play to my own standard, I play to relax, and I place more value on tenacity, perseverance, willingness and manners.

You see, those "SCRUBS" - the ones lacking the "talent" to play competitively, hamstrung by "self-imposed" rules or just a general mindset are the people still around, the people with good attitude's, the people actually having fun doing something they enjoy.

Most of the "eL33T$" I used to play with are burnt-out joyless husks with RL complexes who drama-queen their way from game to game, challenge to challenge, proving ground to proving ground in a futile attempt at finding self-worth through playing to win.

Scrub-life didn't choose me, I choose it myself.

That's fine, I play scub as well quite often shunning BiS because I want to play the way I want, or not using "cheap" tactics in PvP because I feel they're unfair or not meant to be used.

However I make a point of not complaining about it when others do it. It's fine to choose not to play to win and have fun (I would even encourage everyone to try that way) but if you do that you have to accept that you've made the choice and can't go around demanding things change to suit your needs or slandering others who don't limit themselves.