Animation canceling Xbox

djdc1234

I know the whole game seems to be who can do it better. And it's a who has the biggest ***...

What would happen if it was taken out, seems to me for the most part people would be on the same level. Sure larger cp pools would have harder hits and experience.

Thoughts on this topic?

Is it nessasary for the game ?

Excaltic

djdc1234 wrote: »

I know the whole game seems to be who can do it better. And it's a who has the biggest ***...

What would happen if it was taken out, seems to me for the most part people would be on the same level. Sure larger cp pools would have harder hits and experience.

Thoughts on this topic?

Is it nessasary for the game ?

I 101% agree that a Triple A game like ESO should have this exploit technique removed asap, because the thing itself feels like a cheap asian free2play mmorpg element...

It completely removes any immersion from any battle in ESO...

But what can you do, the so-called "pro's" love this, because this way they can have an (unfair) edge over others in pvp (and also, less direct in pve), that is the casual gamers.

Oh yeah, don't expect lots of support for your idea, because the "pro's" will defend this exploit with passion, with things like "learn to play" / "get good" / "it's part of the game" / "it requires actual skill" / "the devs agreed this is not cheating" / etc.
Just to keep their (unfair) advantage over other players in pvp.

Also the case is that this absurd free2play exploit technique can't be fixed by the devs themselves because of how the game engine works... it's a bit sad... but yeah...

So no, don't expect it to go, ever...

Waffennacht

Excaltic wrote: »

djdc1234 wrote: »

I know the whole game seems to be who can do it better. And it's a who has the biggest ***...

What would happen if it was taken out, seems to me for the most part people would be on the same level. Sure larger cp pools would have harder hits and experience.

Thoughts on this topic?

Is it nessasary for the game ?

I 101% agree that a Triple A game like ESO should have this exploit technique removed asap, because the thing itself feels like a cheap asian free2play mmorpg element...

It completely removes any immersion from any battle in ESO...

But what can you do, the so-called "pro's" love this, because this way they can have an (unfair) edge over others in pvp (and also, less direct in pve), that is the casual gamers.

Oh yeah, don't expect lots of support for your idea, because the "pro's" will defend this exploit with passion, with things like "learn to play" / "get good" / "it's part of the game" / "it requires actual skill" / "the devs agreed this is not cheating" / etc.
Just to keep their (unfair) advantage over other players in pvp.

Also the case is that this absurd free2play exploit technique can't be fixed by the devs themselves because of how the game engine works... it's a bit sad... but yeah...

So no, don't expect it to go, ever...

Dang dude, did a free to play game kill your family or something?

Excaltic

Waffennacht wrote: »

Dang dude, did a free to play game kill your family or something?

Free 2 play games kill the game industry...

It lowers the Triple A games standards on what is considered a quality game...

McI

I am what is considered a "casual" in this game. Yeah, I am well over cap CP, and have some pretty good gear, but I have played since April 2014.

To learn how to animation cancel (I think it was called "clipping" in DCUO), is something that can be easily learned.

It is a mechanic that has been here since the start of the game. It is something that everyone, of every skillset, every class has access to.

If your argument is that role players want to see their animations in a PvP setting, against a PvP player. Then well, wrong game for you bud.

Kalante

Excaltic wrote: »

djdc1234 wrote: »

I know the whole game seems to be who can do it better. And it's a who has the biggest ***...

What would happen if it was taken out, seems to me for the most part people would be on the same level. Sure larger cp pools would have harder hits and experience.

Thoughts on this topic?

Is it nessasary for the game ?

I 101% agree that a Triple A game like ESO should have this exploit technique removed asap, because the thing itself feels like a cheap asian free2play mmorpg element...

It completely removes any immersion from any battle in ESO...

But what can you do, the so-called "pro's" love this, because this way they can have an (unfair) edge over others in pvp (and also, less direct in pve), that is the casual gamers.

Oh yeah, don't expect lots of support for your idea, because the "pro's" will defend this exploit with passion, with things like "learn to play" / "get good" / "it's part of the game" / "it requires actual skill" / "the devs agreed this is not cheating" / etc.
Just to keep their (unfair) advantage over other players in pvp.

Also the case is that this absurd free2play exploit technique can't be fixed by the devs themselves because of how the game engine works... it's a bit sad... but yeah...

So no, don't expect it to go, ever...

By that logic i guess chess should also be nerfed. The more layers of skill are removed the less fun this game is. I bet you are also in favor of all these ridiculous choices of removing counters to some skills that zos has implement aren't ya.

RT_Frank

djdc1234 wrote: »

I know the whole game seems to be who can do it better. And it's a who has the biggest ***...

What would happen if it was taken out, seems to me for the most part people would be on the same level. Sure larger cp pools would have harder hits and experience.

Thoughts on this topic?

Is it nessasary for the game ?

Is it necessary? No

Is it an important aspect of the game? Debatable

The community is split on the issue. On one hand, removing it would decrease the occurrence of one hit builds. On the other hand, doing so will lower the skill required in PvP and dungeons. While these are just a few examples, most, if not all, arguments cannot be proven so they are entirely subjective. We just have to deal with whatever ZOS wants.

KingYogi415

It's not an exploit, it's a simple, easy to learn in-game mechanic.

You click light attack before you use a skill, that's all there is to it. Being a "casual gamer" should not stop you figuring out how to click your mouse while your casting.

Have you ever used block or dodge roll during combat? Congratz you have "Animation canceled" before.

AC was already nerfed really hard, nothing is truly canceled anymore, you can see light attacks being weaved easily with a trained eye.

I don't get why people think removing or lowering a skill cap would make the game better. It's short sided and leaves no room for progression. The people who want this gone are the same people who ironicly say this game takes no skill....

At least ZOS is doing something right with the huge influx of noobs begging for nerfs on the forums every day.

Cheers!

zergbase_ESO

You know.. you can ummm learn how to do it... Not hard at all...

ValkynSketha

Tho animation cancelling is unintended feature, the devs accepted it in the game as they couldn't fix it, however it is what makes eso combat fun and you feel progress when you learn how to do it, and it is not hard to do. It is ironic what made eso combat fun is in the game by mistake.

And even if they were able to remove it, top players will stay top players, not because of cp or lvl, but because they know which skill to use at which time, they know which skills combo will work the best, they know how to use the environment, they have better situational awareness, when to block, dodge roll, and the list go on and on.. and i bet the anti-animation cancelling players will find something to complain about.

And i don't see them removing it even if they figured how, as they will need to balance the whole game, from pvp to pve, skills, sets, numbers ..etc

GeorgeBlack

1) No damage should register if a skill animation is not complete

2) Normal and heavy attacks should not get clipped

3) Roll dodging should cancell a skill animation. Damage should not register

4) Blocking animation should cancel skill animation. Damage should not register. Blocking animation should last a full second and a bit

5) Interupting should not cancel skill/normal hit animations.
Interupting interupts maybe 1 or 2 skills in the entire PvP.
Interupt is not being used for its intended purpose in PvP.
It is being exploited for more Dps.
Should such changes be implemented, mobs/bosses should channel a bit longer for players to have time to interupt.

Should these changes be implemented, ZOS should lower mobs/bosses HP to adjust PvE difficulty due to loss on DPS from AC being removed.

AC gives some builds the upper hand in PvP. Builds that close gap can add dps by adding heavy attacks within the Gap Closer animation.
Builds whose skills are a very short animation benefit from faster rotations with AC.
People whose latency is a bit higher cannot react to someone animation cancelling EVEN THOUGH THEY THEMSELVES CAN PERFORM ANIMATION CANCELLING.

AC is a piece of cake to perform. People pretend it takes skill to learn but it doesn't.
They use this argument to discredit any unbiased and reasonable request to make the game better by giving the L2P treatment to others.

AC does not make someone better. It just benefits certain builds, which become the metas.
AC promotes a very narrow playstyle for competitive PvP and it goes against the idea that in Eso you can build your toon using a variety of available skills.

AC does not promote a fluid and reactive combat.
My suggestions would maintain the flow of the combat AND ADD the missing element of reaction in ESO PVP.

ZOS should fix their game. More people quit ESO after finding that PvP is all about 4 competitive builds.

ZOS has many more DLC to sell. They should stop worrying about what people want, since forums cannot prove what the entirety of the users want, and do the right logical thing.
Fixing animation cancelling WILL FIX A TOON OF OTHER ISSUES which lead back to this bad design.
Then they can devote their resources to meaningful content instead of band aids fixes for complains of imbalance between classes in PvP

idk

djdc1234 wrote: »

I know the whole game seems to be who can do it better. And it's a who has the biggest ***...

What would happen if it was taken out, seems to me for the most part people would be on the same level. Sure larger cp pools would have harder hits and experience.

Thoughts on this topic?

Is it nessasary for the game ?

In any MMO skill trumps lack of it, especially in PvP. Most of the same players that are more successful and killing other players and surviving would still be the top players. It is much more than animation canceling. It is more than gear, it is more than what skills are on the bar.

There is also a reason some cannot do animation canceling. It is the reason they are more challenged when facing enemy players and it is not about the animation canceling either, it is about everything else.

Edit: Besides. skill animation is not tied to the amount of time a required for a skill to execute. So removing of animation canceling merely would require a rework of animations and skills would still fire off just as fast, but if someone is in the middle of firing off a skill, and especially a skill that is channeled or activated, they will not be able to block or dodge roll leaving them defenseless and more of the inexperienced players will die easier.

Countcalorie

less about skill and more about who has better connection.try block animation cancelling on Australian internet.you will never be able to do it consistently.
Beat a sorc "pro" on xbox eu? prepare for the wave of hatemail thats about to hit you.make a build to counter these players(shieldbreaker):prepare for abuse and hatemail.

Rox83

I know how and do so with my rotation, but I agree with the OP it should be removed.

And if it's something difficult for them to remove at least have the game teach new players it. I meet people in dungeons daily that have no idea about what animation cancelling is.

Sylphex

Why the hell would you want everyone to be equal and homogenised? Remove animation cancel and that's what you get. People with the same build, the same order or slow cast skills, and you have the exact same parse. Where's the skill in that?

Countcalorie

Sylphex wrote: »

Why the hell would you want everyone to be equal and homogenised? Remove animation cancel and that's what you get. People with the same build, the same order or slow cast skills, and you have the exact same parse. Where's the skill in that?

people all ready do that.besides where's the "skill" in low ping?I can animation cancel fine when theres little lag. but thats not usually the case.I lag out when theres more then 8 people in combat cause eu has *** conection to any Australian internet.I can play other games just fine with 150 ping being the maximum.either remove animation canceling,fix the eu server or allow us to change servers to na.

GeorgeBlack

People that argue for animation cancelling are biased. The won't engage in a logical conversation.
The only argument I accept for AC, is that ZOS might mess the game should they attempt to fix it.

However ESO players should not embrace AC, thus forcing ZOS to be very diligent in fixing combat animations.

idk

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

People that argue for animation cancelling are biased. The won't engage in a logical conversation.
The only argument I accept for AC, is that ZOS might mess the game should they attempt to fix it.

However ESO players should not embrace AC, thus forcing ZOS to be very diligent in fixing combat animations.

@GeorgeBlack

Funny thing is, you seem to not understand some very basic aspects of ESO combat.

Here are a few facts to help you out.

1. All skills have a GCD is forced and cannot be overridden. Animation canceling cannot override this.
2. If Zos altered the animations to match the GCD you will still take as much damage as you do now. So nothing real will change.
3. Skill trumps all. Those that are know how to play well will still be pawning those that are still learning.

Very simple and why your biased view is preventing you from having a logical conversation on the subject.

EDIT: and @Kram8ion who posted below has a great point.

Kram8ion

If the combat was any slower and non responsive than it is it would basically be a turn based game

GeorgeBlack

@Kram8ion Responsive combat can be achieved without Interupt being exploited as extra DPS (since in PvP it interrupts maybe one or 2 skills), with roll dodging still cancelling skill animations but negating the skills dmg, with blocking still cancelling skill animations, but negating the skills dmg and with normal and heavy hits not registering dmg if they were cancelled.

Where is the lack of responsiveness? Why should you register damage when you don't perform an attack?

idk

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@Kram8ion Responsive combat can be achieved without Interupt being exploited as extra DPS (since in PvP it interrupts maybe one or 2 skills), with roll dodging still cancelling skill animations but negating the skills dmg, with blocking still cancelling skill animations, but negating the skills dmg and with normal and heavy hits not registering dmg if they were cancelled.

Where is the lack of responsiveness? Why should you register damage when you don't perform an attack?

@GeorgeBlack

Once again, it is not an exploit.

Maybe if I repost my previous comment you might see it and understand the fallacy of your argument.

Here are a few facts to help you out.

1. All skills have a GCD is forced and cannot be overridden. Animation canceling cannot override this.
2. If Zos altered the animations to match the GCD you will still take as much damage as you do now. So nothing real will change.
3. Skill trumps all. Those that are know how to play well will still be pawning those that are still learning.

Very simple and why your biased view is preventing you from having a logical conversation on the subject.

Ignore it if you want but it is correct. Continuing to repeat your incorrect statements will not magical make them true.

GeorgeBlack

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

You are not countering my points. You assume that I don't know how to AC.

GeorgeBlack

Point 1) Normal/heavy attacks should not register damage if the animation is not complete
Point 2) Blocking MAY CANCEL ANIMATIONS, in order for combat to be reactive. Cancelling a skill animation should not register damage for that skill
Point 3) Roll Dodging MAY CANCEL ANIMATIONS, in order for combat to be reactive. Cancelling a skill animation should not register damage for that skill
Point 4) Interupt should not cancel animations since it's intented purpose is to stop a targets channeling. In PvP one 1 or 2 or 3 skills can be cancelled because of an interruption. Interupt is purely used for extra dps and not as intended.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO
@Kram8ion


Animation cancelling benefits builds which use abilities with a very short animation (spammables).
DKs whip, Nightblades assassin's blade.

idk

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

You are not countering my points. You assume that I don't know how to AC.

If I have suggested that you do not know what animation canceling it I do apologize.

I will take one of your biggest points so far.

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

1) No damage should register if a skill animation is not complete

One of the statements I made was that every skill has a required time that must pass for the skill to fire and the animation canceled.

It is a GCD of sorts hard wired into each and every skill. That is what controls us. The animation is merely nothing more than fluff. This is the logic that combat is based on.

The point being, the foundation of your argument is based on an incorrect understanding of how combat has been designed in ESO.

I am neither defending or opposing animation canceling. Merely presenting the facts.

Kram8ion

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Point 1) Normal/heavy attacks should not register damage if the animation is not complete
Point 2) Blocking MAY CANCEL ANIMATIONS, in order for combat to be reactive. Cancelling a skill animation should not register damage for that skill
Point 3) Roll Dodging MAY CANCEL ANIMATIONS, in order for combat to be reactive. Cancelling a skill animation should not register damage for that skill
Point 4) Interupt should not cancel animations since it's intented purpose is to stop a targets channeling. In PvP one 1 or 2 or 3 skills can be cancelled because of an interruption. Interupt is purely used for extra dps and not as intended.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO
@Kram8ion


Animation cancelling benefits builds which use abilities with a very short animation (spammables).
DKs whip, Nightblades assassin's blade.

Have the developers called it an exploit? To play the game the way your saying would feel like a speak and spell

GeorgeBlack

@Giles.floydub17_ESO
There is no logic behind it and there is no reaction when some1 hits you with:
Norm atk clipped->skill clipped->bash infinity
There is no logic behind:
Barrier clipped->block
Vigor clipped->rolldodge

Norm atk clipped->barrier stack

Heavy atk clipped->charge

This is not the reactive combat idea based upon ESO build it's mechanics.

Everyone can Animation cancel.
People with higher ping cannot react to the clipped animations of an opponent. A player with low ping benefits from a full AC rotation when landing a CC until the other person breaks free(low or high ping). A person with higher ping will not utilize AC to its fullest before the other person breaks free (low or high ping)
People that don't play the handful of metas do not benefit from AC. AC promotes a very narrow playstyle instead of you choosing your build from a variety of skills. You will disregard most skills in order to work with ones that work better for a full AC rotation.

How can people say that combat is reactive when you use the same rotation against tanks and Damage Dealers? It's just CC burst (ty AC!), follow by stack barrier/heal, break free sustain, CC burst, stack barrier/heal break free sustain.

idk

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@Giles.floydub17_ESO
There is no logic behind it and there is no reaction who some1 hits you with:
Norm atk clipped->skill clipped->bash infinity
There is no logic behind:
Barrier clipped->block
Vigor clipped->rolldodge

Norm atk clipped->barrier stack

Heavy atk clipped->charge

This is not the reactive combat idea based upon ESO build it's mechanics.

Everyone can Animation cancel.
People with higher ping cannot react to the clipped animations of an opponent.
People that don't play the handful of metas do not benefit from AC

Coding is logic. What I am speaking to is the logic of the game which also extends to the logic of the discussion. Pure and simple. Ignoring this in the conversation on the topic is, by definition, illogical.

HEXENWOLF

Its not just a matter of learning to animation cancel. Anything I've ever wanted to be really, really good at, I've put time and energy into and become quite proficient at. The real problem is, I simply don't want to because so few games use this mechanic (and more than half of them are Asian MMOS) that it seems like a waste of time to learn it. For one, I'm a magicka sorcerer, if you think I can actually see my characters entire animations through Elemental Blockade, Liquid Lightning, and Boundless Storm and any other players AOE light show - you're wrong. Secondly, weaving attacks on console is far from natural feeling since doing so requires an awkward combination of right thumbstick movement, right pad button pressing, and left trigger pressing. Bearing in mind that unlike the mouse, where Naga users can simply bind their hot keys and keep their reticle centered on their target, we're required to shift our thumbs off the reticle to perform attacks. Which means that if the target moves at any point during weaving the entire sequence is a cluster**** to perform. I'm not saying some console users don't do it or haven't gotten mildly proficient at it, but its nowhere near the level it is on PC.

Watching for animations and essentially glitching out the Matrix is not my idea of fun. This is poor design that makes it absolutely impossible to balance the end game in any way. If it's such a "fair" technique and ZOS has no intention to fix it, they should provide a tutorial and it should be something that is displayed in the skill menu so people understand they can do it. As it is presented right now, only people who spend time on these forums or watch build videos know this is something they should learn. The least ZOS could do is be up front with the community about it. The better solution would be to fix it.

GeorgeBlack

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@Giles.floydub17_ESO
There is no logic behind it and there is no reaction who some1 hits you with:
Norm atk clipped->skill clipped->bash infinity
There is no logic behind:
Barrier clipped->block
Vigor clipped->rolldodge

Norm atk clipped->barrier stack

Heavy atk clipped->charge

This is not the reactive combat idea based upon ESO build it's mechanics.

Everyone can Animation cancel.
People with higher ping cannot react to the clipped animations of an opponent.
People that don't play the handful of metas do not benefit from AC

Coding is logic. What I am speaking to is the logic of the game which also extends to the logic of the discussion. Pure and simple. Ignoring this in the conversation on the topic is, by definition, illogical.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO


To you find it logical that people should reply with L2P, while they themselves drive the metas, embracing AC, instead of saying "hey ZOS, AC doesn't serve everyone equally (and there is no SKILL FACTOR) so we as a community demand that you FIX it" ?

If such a stance was adopted by everyone, instead of some people farming those that have yet to watch a 5min video on YouTube, whilst mainitaining the delusion that they are SKILLED, I think that ESO would be a much better game, with a greater importance on strategic thinking, REACTION, personal taste and combat prowness, less metas, more competitive build ideas and finally less band aid nerfs/boost to the 4 classes.

Improving the concept of reaction combat would make ESO better.

BTW remove bonus damage from Max Stamina, Max Magika, in order to see hybrid builds, or fighters utilizing Class skills and Mages whatever. Break free more.

strebor2095

I am a player who is based in Australia and connects to the NA server. My ping is ~250-350 on a good day, and animation cancelling makes the game just feel horrible and clunky.

I already have to wait about a third of a second to see if the ability works, and then if it doesn't work I have to process why:
Was it the animation that for some reason didn't play? Was I CC'd by something and it hasn't registered properly? Did my ping go up and it will process in another second?

And then comes animation canceling. In theory you just light attack before you want to do your ability and then after the GCD you start the next one. For myself it means that I look like a madman 45% of the time, press light attack and then start the next ability - then I either only light attack or the skill I was using doesn't get canceled.

I've practiced and practiced and it is just up to RNGsus whether or not my rotation from 1 minute to the next is normal or if I just get off 3 light attacks and all my DOTs run out.

GeorgeBlack

Another point.
Skill animations do get completely cancelled and absorbed with Roll Dodge.

Roll dodge is meant to be used to avoid incoming damage (reactive combat). Roll dodge cancels a skill animation to in order for a character to avoid being hit (all good, reactive).
If roll dodge is used to avoid damage the moment you decide that you need to avoid damage (reactive combat), why should you register an attack while roll dodging?
I do it all the time if I wanna add on another DoT or if I wanna deal some damage. with: clipped norm atk, clipped surprise atk, roll dodge +bash.
Is roll dodge being used for it's intended purpose which is to avoid a hit the moment that you have to avoid it? Or am I exploiting a broken system in order to add DPS in my every movement, my cancelled attack (which I cancelled to avoid being hit) will STILL REGISTER DMG/EFFECT