What would happen if there were concurrent trading systems?

Kurkikohtaus

The premise, as discussed in THIS thread, is as follows:

An open, global auction house / listing store (such as in WoW, SWTOR and other games) would exist alongside of the current guild-trader system. It would have a hub in each alliance capital and be open to all, for the same listing fee as exists at a guild trader. What do you predict would happen?

Please note that the question is not what would YOU do or prefer, it is asking you to predict how the game population would react as a whole.

- edit -

Dammit, I wanted to add an "OTHER" option, but I accidentally posted the poll and now I cannot edit the questions. If you think "Other", please say so in the replies.

Kurkikohtaus

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

[reserved for tallying "Other" votes]

so far - 1

Merlin13KAGL

Funny, this doesn't seem at all like the Auction house thread from today.

There is a lot more resources required to creation global AH which are not being factored in.

Imagine 50,000 people trying to access the entire list of salable items at the same time. You think you know lag/loading screens now?

Kurkikohtaus

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

@Merlin13KAGL yes, I am the author of both threads. The discussion in the other, thread, which is linked here BTW, gave me the idea for this poll.

While your technical observations are on point, the question is not about whether or not a GAH should be implemented, but about encouraging forum users to imagine what would happen if it were implemented alongside of the current system.

Merlin13KAGL

Two threads, essentially same subject, very little point, aye. If you pose a Question, you can probably get a third one going.

So, it should not be implemented, because I imagine the servers would choke and the game would be even more unplayable than it is now.

Biased poll is biased. (And redundant statement is redundant.) You do not have an option for no AH implementation, nor an Other option for unseen alternatives.

If you wish to RP a GAH, have at it.

Kurkikohtaus

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

So, it should not be implemented, because I imagine the servers would choke and the game would be even more unplayable than it is now.

@Merlin13KAGL I do not understand exactly what you are getting at. The poll question is not about whether or not it SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be implemented, or whether or not it would be good or bad. The question asks forum users to try to predict the game population's behaviour if such a thing were to hypothetically take place.

Merlin13KAGL

Lol. So it's a typical poll. Gratz on accomplishing your goal.

You can mark me up firmly as Other, if you wish, for reason explained above and in your original thread.

Kurkikohtaus

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

@Merlin13KAGL your "other" vote has been recorded above. Still do not understand what you are getting that. I am not creating a poll about the validity or merit of the premise I described. The poll is specifically about what I stated, I think it is worded clearly in the question and in the description.

If by "typical poll" you mean one that forwards a clear premise and asks people about their predictions then yes, I hope that this poll is indeed typical.

Darlgon

And.. you had to open an new identical thread to your other thread.. Why?



This has been beat to death so many times, I am thinking its time to start reporting to have the threads reported for forum bans.

Its in the base code of the game, no Auction Hall. ZoS has been telling us this since Beta going on four years.

BlackSparrow

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

It wouldn't be "abandoned" but most people would likely use the auction house, because traveling around half of Tamriel to find Worms or Heartwood at a decent price is time-consuming.

How I've seen other games handle it is limit the types of items you can list in a global auction house, while the traders have a carte blanche to post whatever they want. Something like that, I can see conexisting with the guild trader system.

Merlin13KAGL

What I'm getting at is a typical poll gives only potentially desirable answers according to the poll maker's bias.

A good poll, or thread, for that matter, provides options for alternatives, often beyond what the poll maker may be considering.

While I respect that you claim to have forgotten the Other option, your poll still limits outcomes.

Your poll, through technicality only, serves the same (lack of?) purpose as your original thread. So, in that regard, I am clearly unaware of what you;re getting at.

It's not a new discussion. It's been done a dozen other times, a dozen other ways.

Calling it anything else is simply arguing semantics.

Dracindo

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

Would make guild traders useless. In turn would make hiring them useless. In turn makes having a guildbank pretty much useless (unless a guild is aiming for a manor)

Kurkikohtaus

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

What I'm getting at is a typical poll gives only potentially desirable answers according to the poll maker's bias.

I think we have a misunderstanding of the difference between "Bias" and "Premise".

My premise is a concurrent system with an Open GAH and the existing guild-traders coexisting side-by-side.

The possible answers that I list show NO bias with regards to the question, which is "what do you think the general population do"? I cannot think of more options than the ones I listed.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Your poll, through technicality only, serves the same (lack of?) purpose as your original thread. So, in that regard, I am clearly unaware of what you;re getting at.

I want to see if people here at the forum think that in a hypothetical scenario, the current guild-trader system would survive the inclusion of a GAH. I do not think so, but the poll is not biased in that regard because one can choose the appropriate answer.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's not a new discussion. It's been done a dozen other times, a dozen other ways.

While we are talking about bias, that statement is an informal fallacy, argumentum ad nauseam. Just because it has been discussed and (on these forums) shouted down does not mean that the argument is not valid.

@Darlgon

Darlgon wrote: »

Its in the base code of the game, no Auction Hall. ZoS has been telling us this since Beta going on four years.

Please read my poll description. The poll is not about whether it SHOULD or WILL be implemented. The impetus for the poll is that there is a vocal contingent on the forums supporting the current system. What I would like to see is whether even those people belive that guild-traders would survive the inclusion of a GAH.

Kurkikohtaus

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

A good poll, or thread, for that matter, provides options for alternatives, often beyond what the poll maker may be considering.

One last thing @Merlin13KAGL ... while I did want to add the "Other" option, I honestly cannot think of another outcome other than one of the 3 I listed within the context of the poll question.

Merlin13KAGL

Lol, that's because you've chosen to limit the context to only allow the options you wish to provide.

I believe that is the very definition of bias.

Darlgon

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Please read my poll description. The poll is not about whether it SHOULD or WILL be implemented. The impetus for the poll is that there is a vocal contingent on the forums supporting the current system. What I would like to see is whether even those people belive that guild-traders would survive the inclusion of a GAH.

That vocal contingent is continuously wasting everyone's time, especially thier own..

Frankly, constant forum threads beating a dead horse, falls under:

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service

ToS wrote:

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faerigirl

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

The fact that these threads come up (and have come up since original closed betas) should tell everyone including most importantly ZOS, that this conversation is NOT over.

If someone want to start reporting as to elicit banning polite conversational threads then I want to start reporting all the dead horse gifs.

See? Isn't that childish?

Kurkikohtaus

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

that's because you've chosen to limit the context to only allow the options you wish to provide.

I believe that is the very definition of bias.

@Merlin13KAGL I am not going to give up on this because I believe you are trying to have a real discussion here and are not just trolling me.

Yes, I have limited the context because that is what polls do. I am not interested in who thinks a GAH is a good or bad idea. I am not interested (for the sake of this poll) in what other impact it would have on the game, on servers, on economy, on population size, etc. I am interested in one thing, and that is the topic of this poll.

This is not bias, it is merely a question with narrow focus. I cannot think of another response to this question and its context other than the ones I have made available and I dare say that ne

Iluvrien

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

that's because you've chosen to limit the context to only allow the options you wish to provide.

I believe that is the very definition of bias.

@Merlin13KAGL I am not going to give up on this because I believe you are trying to have a real discussion here and are not just trolling me.

Yes, I have limited the context because that is what polls do. I am not interested in who thinks a GAH is a good or bad idea. I am not interested (for the sake of this poll) in what other impact it would have on the game, on servers, on economy, on population size, etc. I am interested in one thing, and that is the topic of this poll.

This is not bias, it is merely a question with narrow focus. I cannot think of another response to this question and its context other than the ones I have made available and I dare say that ne

I read the entirety of the other thread. I read this one too. With great interest.

However, your focus is too narrow. The question only makes sense in terms of its own frame of reference. You ask what players when presented with a simple choice: AH or not AH. You artificially exclude all other factors. As such, any answer you derive from this poll will be useful... but only in terms of the limits you have placed on it.

What if you receive the result that the current Guild Trader system will be abandoned? You cannot extend that to the game itself since you have removed all considerations that might impact on feasibility and usefulness.

Do you propose to extend your question by one consideration at a time, until you discover the point at what support for such a system crosses the boundary into the opposition that has been seen in each of the previous polls. If you were to do that, I would see some point in this. As it is? A purely theoretical discussion providing little real insight into actual player motivation or behaviour.

Kurkikohtaus

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

Iluvrien wrote: »

However, your focus is too narrow. The question only makes sense in terms of its own frame of reference.

I accept that criticism, however, it is the point of view I am interested in.

Iluvrien wrote: »

As it is? A purely theoretical discussion providing little real insight into actual player motivation or behaviour.

I am interested to see if people who DO like the current guild trader system can see that in my invented scenario, the guild-trader system would possibly lose out to the GAH. My poll will not prove nor disprove that, but I am interested in observing the results nevertheless.

AlnilamE

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

I am interested to see if people who DO like the current guild trader system can see that in my invented scenario, the guild-trader system would possibly lose out to the GAH. My poll will not prove nor disprove that, but I am interested in observing the results nevertheless.

What will happen:

Many people will start using the AH (provided ZOS could design one that wouldn't take 3 hours to perform a single search.

Many trade guilds would fade away. Traders would start being taken over by smaller guilds.

Prices of common goods would plummet to below vendoring price (and I would hope ZOS would put a vendoring price of at least 1g on all items that are common commodities that currently have a 0g vendoring value, like Alchemy plants). MM already tells me that low level refined mats are selling for less than what the NPC vendor will pay for them. (???)

Rare items will become insta bought and flipped at a rate much greater than what TTC allows people to do now. Unless you camp the market 24/7 looking for something rare at a reasonable price, you will not get it, in which case it's better to go out and farm it yourself.

The market aspect of the game will become the boring mess it is in other MMOs.

People who don't care about an AH will stop selling things, since you don't need to sell to other players to make gold in this game.

I guess you can file this under "other", or "What happens when Wal-Mart opens shop in a small town.

Beardimus

OTHER:

Seriously another thread on the same thing @Kurkikohtaus its getting dull.

You are arguing with yourself, co-exist would not work as it would undermine the current trader system, you are asking a very leading question that means nothing, proves nothing and has no value, except perhaps to you. Hope you are getting value from.the skewed answers to your skewed question!

No one is disputing that (tho i gave it my selection for the lolz) in fact the reason why we don't want an AH is exactly that reason, that it would wreck the current system.

SilverWF

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

Answer is obvious.

AzraelKrieg

Biased poll is biased. The current system would die because a global system would destroy any competition. Prices will plummet due to easily available supply of items then those that are selling amazingly well will get snapped up cheap by one or two people with a lot of gold and flipped at higher prices, destroying the economy in the process. Everything will end up with a value and the value will be nothing. Also,

HASN'T IT SUFFERED ENOUGH?! WHY MUST YOU PEOPLE KEEP BEATING ON IT LONG AFTER IT HAS DIED?!

SilverWF

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

HASN'T IT SUFFERED ENOUGH?! WHY MUST YOU PEOPLE KEEP BEATING ON IT LONG AFTER IT HAS DIED?!

It is dead anyway, so who cares?..

Turelus

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

Everyone would take the path of least resistance as with all things gamers do.

Most like me who don't want a AH know it's an easier system for everyone. We're not saying that the current system is easier or more user friendly than a the standards in other MMO games, we're saying it's more interesting and adds to the game.

Akevoriath

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

Everyone except those who basically have a monopoly on the current system would switch. Global AH is far superior for the majority of the player base whereas the current system is better for a small but vocal group of players who make it seem like a global AH would be the death of this game, which is just a blatant lie.

GeorgeBlack

I would like to see Player to Player crafting writs.
1)The shopper opens a writ at the Guild Trader.
2)The shopper adds one at the time the items he wants:
Apparel->Light->head>Trait->Level
->Quality (up to purple. Players that can afford Gold most likely don't need to buy crafted gear)
Next item in the same manner.
3)The system calculates the price of each item based on materials required.
4)The Shopper adds a small text with a description of possible Styles that are desired. A happy customer is a returning customer.
5)The shopper adds a Service Price on top of the total amount for all items included in the writ that he thinks that it will attract a crafter, then posts the writ. The amount is withdrawn from the Shopper and held by the Guild Treder.
6)The amount of gold will then be transfered to the first Crafter that completes all the items on the Writ.
7)The shopper receives a writ packet with his items, the name of the Crafter via mail.

Shoppers can remove writs but they will lose 25% of their Gold.
If a writ is removed while a crafter is working, well bad luck, unless tge devs can work something out.

Or something like that. ZOS give crafters some love. In my opinion Crafting Trade is more meaningful than Housing/Furnishing.
In addition, crafted sets should be more useful than overland dropped sets.

HalloweenWeed

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

Not only (a) but many ppl would abandon joining guilds altogether. Guilds would fall, others never gain critical mass. Ppl will only join guilds for other reasons, such as RP, group events, crafting assistance, etc. In my opinion less than half the present percentage of players would be a guild member, in about 6 mos. to a year from that change.

idk

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Funny, this doesn't seem at all like the Auction house thread from today.

There is a lot more resources required to creation global AH which are not being factored in.

Imagine 50,000 people trying to access the entire list of salable items at the same time. You think you know lag/loading screens now?

It doesn't seem to be a virtual duplicate of the thread the same OP created the day before.

Akevoriath

The guild-trader system would be abandonned in favour of the new Global Auction House

HalloweenWeed wrote: »

Not only (a) but many ppl would abandon joining guilds altogether. Guilds would fall, others never gain critical mass. Ppl will only join guilds for other reasons, such as RP, group events, crafting assistance, etc. In my opinion less than half the present percentage of players would be a guild member, in about 6 mos. to a year from that change.

Why do guilds survive without a similar system in current games, or even non trading guilds in this game? What are you smoking? Games such as Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, WoW, just about every MMO that exists, all of them have active guilds, in many of them it is a very large part of the game, people join guilds to socialise. The only guilds that would die with the guild traders are the guilds that only exist to have a guild trader, in that situation the guild is pretty much just a middleman who the players sell their goods through. You need to lay off the drugs dude