Vivec - Balance

Juli'St

Of course, when a company does not respond to various inquiries about in-game problems (General Forum), a number of assumptions emerge about various events linked to the game, and especially PvP.

I do not want or pretend to be unfair, but what we are perceiving in Vivec is something that frightens us. Builds with endless resources, huge tanks with huge DPS and heal regen. I've been researching gear's and, to this moment, I have not found one that feeds this type of construction.

It can be, of course, pure deception, absence of knowledge of the game, but one thing seems to be unanimity among all: the possibility of there being flaws in the security of the game.

I've been talking to old players about buildings. Some, quite rightly, tell me and teach me: that's the way it is, and so on. I'm trying very hard to, with every personal defeat my PvP does not take this to a wrong path that certainly often has no return. On the other hand, I worry about seeing 'extremes'.

I would like to know more about the company, what they have done about it.

[Take this topic, too, of course, as a sincere outburst, something like: 'this can ease my tension in the game and avoid something unfair to myself and other good players' (and ESO have many good, experienced players)]

(Google translate - some expressions here can not express what i try say - sorry about this)

Beardimus

I'm not 100% sure of the context of what you are trying to say.

Are you experienced PvPer talking about known security issues?

Or are you new to PvP and unsure if your deaths are legit?

As the later everyone feels. That repeated WTF moment when you die and die and die and feel everyone is god mode and MUST be cheating. Yet you don't.have a good PvP build or strategy too counter certain builds or encounter 'unkillables' but don't realise they have Emp or a tank build.but aren't killing anyone in return.

More context would help your debate. Also platform & region

Juli'St

Beardimus wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure of the context of what you are trying to say.

Are you experienced PvPer talking about known security issues?

Or are you new to PvP and unsure if your deaths are legit?

As the later everyone feels. That repeated WTF moment when you die and die and die and feel everyone is god mode and MUST be cheating. Yet you don't.have a good PvP build or strategy too counter certain builds or encounter 'unkillables' but don't realise they have Emp or a tank build.but aren't killing anyone in return.

More context would help your debate. Also platform & region

"Are you experienced PvPer talking about known security issues?"

(i try translate it, but, google, u know. Cant answer)

Or are you new to PvP and unsure if your deaths are legit?

I saw everything in PvP, even I fought an old friend, The German. I do not know whether my defeats were legitimate in this case. He, The German, always affirmed that yes and I did not doubt. But I'm not just talking about my losses. I have seen absurd things like 15 members of my faction, former players, very difficult to 'defeat' an opponent with infinite life, stamina and magic (it was a StamSorc).

dennissomb16_ESO

There is no simple answer unfortunately. The nature of Cyrodiil is that variety means almost anything can contribute to a death. Examples of what I mean is that while you are playing things may be going well then all of a sudden unexpected defeats due to anything from a class/build that is perfect counter to you, players you didnt see, lag etc.

Then you add in other factors that are what people argue over the most such as proc sets, animation cancelling, perma blocking and it gets murkier. Take it a step further and you see extreme builds where you see the players who gear entirely to do one thing (like tanking a mass of people)

Unfortunately on top of that there are the percentage of players who do actually cheat. It is sad and ZOS does little to counter or address the issue. With experience you will learn that a majority of what you see is legit and start to recognize the various types of enemy you are running into

PS Short answer to a bigger question

SirCritical

...and for 'first-and-never-just-for-caltrops' visitors like me

LeifErickson

Iskra you should really try to get your CP up while playing in Vivec as I believe you only have around 250.

Malamar1229

Juli'St wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure of the context of what you are trying to say.

Are you experienced PvPer talking about known security issues?

Or are you new to PvP and unsure if your deaths are legit?

As the later everyone feels. That repeated WTF moment when you die and die and die and feel everyone is god mode and MUST be cheating. Yet you don't.have a good PvP build or strategy too counter certain builds or encounter 'unkillables' but don't realise they have Emp or a tank build.but aren't killing anyone in return.

More context would help your debate. Also platform & region

"Are you experienced PvPer talking about known security issues?"

(i try translate it, but, google, u know. Cant answer)

Or are you new to PvP and unsure if your deaths are legit?

I saw everything in PvP, even I fought an old friend, The German. I do not know whether my defeats were legitimate in this case. He, The German, always affirmed that yes and I did not doubt. But I'm not just talking about my losses. I have seen absurd things like 15 members of my faction, former players, very difficult to 'defeat' an opponent with infinite life, stamina and magic (it was a StamSorc).

You realize your friend, The German, was an exploiter right?

Drummerx04

Most players you encounter in wild Cyrodiil are not straight cheating exploiters. Often they are merely taking advantage of some OP defense mechanics provided directly by ZoS.

S&B ultimate for example provides around 6 seconds of pure unkillable god mode for anyone with a half decent build, and on the truly gifted tank players... makes them actually almost unkillable even to experienced raid groups without dropping ultimates to get through their defenses.

Dark Deal on a Stam Sorc is another powerful skill, BUT the skill itself has downsides like being interruptible. The skill comes back to being overpowered when you place it on the most mobile build in the game in a location like a resource tower where outrunning other builds for even 2 seconds allows Line of Sight and uninterrupted casting.

That's just the way these things go though, you'll start your pvp experience getting your but kicked, but eventually you'll be able to hold your own in far more situations, and eventually you may be the reason abilities and sets get nerfed.

Publius_Scipio

I doubt there is a single game out there that does not have some bug or exploit being used, let alone a modern day MMO.

I wouldn't doubt there are some playing right now using and doing things they know they shouldn't be. But at the end of the day this is called the real world.

ZOS will never stop something like CE completely. As ZOS updates things on their end to cut the legs out from under CE, there is someone somewhere in the world that will update CE to work again. Miat's addon for example is complete cheese. And that addon was made public. Just imagine what some could have cooked up in ESO over the past three years but kept it hush hush. People don't care, if they get caught and are tossed from the game they come back a few months later under a new account.

Juli'St

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Juli'St wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure of the context of what you are trying to say.

Are you experienced PvPer talking about known security issues?

Or are you new to PvP and unsure if your deaths are legit?

As the later everyone feels. That repeated WTF moment when you die and die and die and feel everyone is god mode and MUST be cheating. Yet you don't.have a good PvP build or strategy too counter certain builds or encounter 'unkillables' but don't realise they have Emp or a tank build.but aren't killing anyone in return.

More context would help your debate. Also platform & region

"Are you experienced PvPer talking about known security issues?"

(i try translate it, but, google, u know. Cant answer)

Or are you new to PvP and unsure if your deaths are legit?

I saw everything in PvP, even I fought an old friend, The German. I do not know whether my defeats were legitimate in this case. He, The German, always affirmed that yes and I did not doubt. But I'm not just talking about my losses. I have seen absurd things like 15 members of my faction, former players, very difficult to 'defeat' an opponent with infinite life, stamina and magic (it was a StamSorc).

You realize your friend, The German, was an exploiter right?

I dont know, man. To me, no. I never have problem with him, was a excellent sorc (to me).

Juli'St

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Most players you encounter in wild Cyrodiil are not straight cheating exploiters. Often they are merely taking advantage of some OP defense mechanics provided directly by ZoS.

S&B ultimate for example provides around 6 seconds of pure unkillable god mode for anyone with a half decent build, and on the truly gifted tank players... makes them actually almost unkillable even to experienced raid groups without dropping ultimates to get through their defenses.

Dark Deal on a Stam Sorc is another powerful skill, BUT the skill itself has downsides like being interruptible. The skill comes back to being overpowered when you place it on the most mobile build in the game in a location like a resource tower where outrunning other builds for even 2 seconds allows Line of Sight and uninterrupted casting.

That's just the way these things go though, you'll start your pvp experience getting your but kicked, but eventually you'll be able to hold your own in far more situations, and eventually you may be the reason abilities and sets get nerfed.

i cant understand yet the HUGE - GIANT - diference between mag/stam classes. Two Hands, for exemple, with anime cancel, seems like a 'good mod'. Stam is INFINITY better then mag classes (except, MAYBE, DKs OP).

Juli'St

LeifErickson wrote: »

Iskra you should really try to get your CP up while playing in Vivec as I believe you only have around 250.

Yes Leify. You is right about. I ll think about change the title of this topic.

Juli'St

(i change the title, not is fair beguine a discuss about suspicious, not facts).

Asardes

I've recently started playing my sorcerer on Vivec and having clocked around 15h I've completely failed to find those builds. I've died to zergs, I've died to single players having obviously more experience than me but found no proof of having both huge damage and unlimited resource sustain. I mean I saw tanks that healed from the brink a few times kiting people around, often in a trap set up by their buddies, but I've also seen people with 2-5 stars melting like butter to a well timed burst.

If you fail to kill one player fast just pick another. It's still 1.5K AP.

Drummerx04

Juli'St wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Most players you encounter in wild Cyrodiil are not straight cheating exploiters. Often they are merely taking advantage of some OP defense mechanics provided directly by ZoS.

S&B ultimate for example provides around 6 seconds of pure unkillable god mode for anyone with a half decent build, and on the truly gifted tank players... makes them actually almost unkillable even to experienced raid groups without dropping ultimates to get through their defenses.

Dark Deal on a Stam Sorc is another powerful skill, BUT the skill itself has downsides like being interruptible. The skill comes back to being overpowered when you place it on the most mobile build in the game in a location like a resource tower where outrunning other builds for even 2 seconds allows Line of Sight and uninterrupted casting.

That's just the way these things go though, you'll start your pvp experience getting your but kicked, but eventually you'll be able to hold your own in far more situations, and eventually you may be the reason abilities and sets get nerfed.

i cant understand yet the HUGE - GIANT - diference between mag/stam classes. Two Hands, for exemple, with anime cancel, seems like a 'good mod'. Stam is INFINITY better then mag classes (except, MAYBE, DKs OP).

Mag classes are actually pretty decent, for the most part. Stam has more direct damage proc set options, but skoria is a deadly mag set.

I'm not too familar with magblade, and I've only fought a few that gave me real trouble. They do have some pretty nasty CC skills, and they can apply pretty heavy single target pressure. Also probably the best bomb spec in cyro.

Magsorc is pretty powerful, but probably the most predictable build in the entire game. Pretty good mobiity and negate is nasty. Shield stacking is pretty effective in short encounters, but with proc sets and whatnot, 1-3 decent players can strip the average sorc shield about as fast as it gets applied.

magplar can put out some insane continuous pressure and area/instant heals, backlash morphs are good for delayed burst and setup and I have yet to reactively block a javelin. Jesus beam is pretty lethal when other skills are already lined up for burst.

MagDk has some nasty CC combo, wings, and dot pressure. Leap and whip are some pretty heavy direct damage skills. Templars pretty much hard counter DK damage, and Dk's basically hard counter sorc mobility and can reflect any projectile skill.

Magwarden... basically a healer and weird undodgeable spammable attacks that I know very little about. Decent group buffs. I am the least familiar with warden... as they are new and I haven't fought too many to learn what makes them tick. But they do seem to be rather tanky overall.

Juli'St

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Juli'St wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Most players you encounter in wild Cyrodiil are not straight cheating exploiters. Often they are merely taking advantage of some OP defense mechanics provided directly by ZoS.

S&B ultimate for example provides around 6 seconds of pure unkillable god mode for anyone with a half decent build, and on the truly gifted tank players... makes them actually almost unkillable even to experienced raid groups without dropping ultimates to get through their defenses.

Dark Deal on a Stam Sorc is another powerful skill, BUT the skill itself has downsides like being interruptible. The skill comes back to being overpowered when you place it on the most mobile build in the game in a location like a resource tower where outrunning other builds for even 2 seconds allows Line of Sight and uninterrupted casting.

That's just the way these things go though, you'll start your pvp experience getting your but kicked, but eventually you'll be able to hold your own in far more situations, and eventually you may be the reason abilities and sets get nerfed.

i cant understand yet the HUGE - GIANT - diference between mag/stam classes. Two Hands, for exemple, with anime cancel, seems like a 'good mod'. Stam is INFINITY better then mag classes (except, MAYBE, DKs OP).

Mag classes are actually pretty decent, for the most part. Stam has more direct damage proc set options, but skoria is a deadly mag set.

I'm not too familar with magblade, and I've only fought a few that gave me real trouble. They do have some pretty nasty CC skills, and they can apply pretty heavy single target pressure. Also probably the best bomb spec in cyro.

Magsorc is pretty powerful, but probably the most predictable build in the entire game. Pretty good mobiity and negate is nasty. Shield stacking is pretty effective in short encounters, but with proc sets and whatnot, 1-3 decent players can strip the average sorc shield about as fast as it gets applied.

magplar can put out some insane continuous pressure and area/instant heals, backlash morphs are good for delayed burst and setup and I have yet to reactively block a javelin. Jesus beam is pretty lethal when other skills are already lined up for burst.

MagDk has some nasty CC combo, wings, and dot pressure. Leap and whip are some pretty heavy direct damage skills. Templars pretty much hard counter DK damage, and Dk's basically hard counter sorc mobility and can reflect any projectile skill.

Magwarden... basically a healer and weird undodgeable spammable attacks that I know very little about. Decent group buffs. I am the least familiar with warden... as they are new and I haven't fought too many to learn what makes them tick. But they do seem to be rather tanky overall.

Less magplar, DPS nerfed.

Mazbt

There is some sketchiness going around in cyrodil but I just shrug it off and go find another fight. Your attacks NEVER landing even what's supposed to be the undodgeable jabs. Players that can do super high damage and yet unlimited resources for constant shields, healing, cloak/streak, breaking free, dodge rolling, etc

I've had my javelin NOT CCing people even when they don't have immunity or their block up

leepalmer95

Mazbt wrote: »

There is some sketchiness going around in cyrodil but I just shrug it off and go find another fight. Your attacks NEVER landing even what's supposed to be the undodgeable jabs. Players that can do super high damage and yet unlimited resources for constant shields, healing, cloak/streak, breaking free, dodge rolling, etc

I've had my javelin NOT CCing people even when they don't have immunity or their block up

Thats called shuffle.

Magıc

Mazbt wrote: »

There is some sketchiness going around in cyrodil but I just shrug it off and go find another fight. Your attacks NEVER landing even what's supposed to be the undodgeable jabs. Players that can do super high damage and yet unlimited resources for constant shields, healing, cloak/streak, breaking free, dodge rolling, etc

I've had my javelin NOT CCing people even when they don't have immunity or their block up

Lol...

Derra

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Mazbt wrote: »

There is some sketchiness going around in cyrodil but I just shrug it off and go find another fight. Your attacks NEVER landing even what's supposed to be the undodgeable jabs. Players that can do super high damage and yet unlimited resources for constant shields, healing, cloak/streak, breaking free, dodge rolling, etc

I've had my javelin NOT CCing people even when they don't have immunity or their block up

Thats called shuffle.

Or meridias blessed armor. That set imo needs a noticeable visible indicator.