Taunt really needs to be removed from Ice staff heavy attack!!

Bigevilpeter

Even if used for tanking who the heck uses heavy attack for taunt?

This just kills any potential ice staff damage builds.

Plz remove it, its pointless

theamazingx

If you're an ice staff build, just don't put points into that passive. If you have a second staff type in the build that you want to benefit from that passive, use that staff for your heavies.

MidknightWolf

No

NewBlacksmurf

Why are you using an Ice staff at all this f you're not a tank?

Serious question maybe not directed at you depending on the situation.

Fire is DD dps based
Light is AOE dps based
Frost is not dps based

-passive wise you'd put yourself at a disadvantage using frost. As for others doing this....gently let them know but it's their character so....shrug

AcadianPaladin

I agree that the ice staff has gone from 'inferior' to 'avoid at all costs' for me.

Bigevilpeter

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why are you using an Ice staff at all this f you're not a tank?

Serious question maybe not directed at you depending on the situation.

Fire is DD dps based
Light is AOE dps based
Frost is not dps based

-passive wise you'd put yourself at a disadvantage using frost. As for others doing this....gently let them know but it's their character so....shrug

Warden Winterborn Build with maelstrom's ice staff and IA ice staff. I ge passive 6% more damage to ice and the more ice damage I deal the higher chance winterborn will proc.

Callidous

Sure, you don't have to take that passive, but why does that effect exist in the first place? It seems out of place to me, so if anyone can explain how it fits in with the effects for the other staff types, I'd be thankful.

The thing is, I'm leveling a sorc and at one point took that passive, but now I'm forced to either respecc or never use ice staves. That doesn't seem right, if you ask me.

Fallen_Ray

Ice staff was better with the snare, it made more sense. Ice attacks are supposed to freeze, not enrage me to attack you for chilling me lol

Sigtric

Callidous wrote: »

Sure, you don't have to take that passive, but why does that effect exist in the first place? It seems out of place to me, so if anyone can explain how it fits in with the effects for the other staff types, I'd be thankful.

The thing is, I'm leveling a sorc and at one point took that passive, but now I'm forced to either respecc or never use ice staves. That doesn't seem right, if you ask me.

Just don't use one to heavy, heavy with a different destro stick on the other bar. If you are double frost sticking then... (WHY?) just eat the respec cost

NewBlacksmurf

Interesting choice using the Winterborn set.

As far as the ice staff part....magic tanks need a resource regen anyways so the taunt makes absolute sense to me.

For DPS, I cringe at any frost based dps for those doing group PvE but why are you still using this set up?

A variation of this seems more logical IMO
https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-warden-build-pve/

TheDarkoil

Doesn't make any sense because if you threw a snowball at someone's head they would probably laugh, if you threw a fireball at them they would probably get angry and attack you back...

josiahva

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Even if used for tanking who the heck uses heavy attack for taunt?

This just kills any potential ice staff damage builds.

Plz remove it, its pointless

I use an ice staff on back bar for the ranged taunt(and ele drain as well as giving me a way to restore magicka with that same heavy attack...its VERY useful, plus the shield never hurts). This way most times I need a ranged taunt I dont have to waste a slot for the undaunted taunt(the only time I slot the undaunted ranged taunt now is if for some reason I need a quicker acting ranged taunt, which is rarely because I just use chains to drag anything in). That being said, there is absolutely no reason to have an ice staff be focused on tanking. If you want to make a tanking magicka weapon with a ranged taunt a wand is a far better choice(that way you can still use a shield) Tanking would be so much easier if both bars were one hand and shield, but one bar heavy attacking restores stam and the other bar magicka...thats the main thing I hate about the ice staff for tanking...the loss of a shield.

Wifeaggro13

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Even if used for tanking who the heck uses heavy attack for taunt?

This just kills any potential ice staff damage builds.

Plz remove it, its pointless

What we need is a lead combat designer that actually understands mmo group combat mechanics in general. espically tanking. We have been in a whirlpool of dilution of roles to the point only one roll exists Dps with taunt or dps with a heal is the only variable. The coomunity had been pointing out flaws with this far before morrowind released but this slightly insane hybrid solo player crowd was adamant it added variety . It was a half baked attempt at trying ro give full dps specs a taunt so the tank roll could be completely bipassed. Its pretty clear one of two things is going on internal. 1 combat design has no idea how to make group combat and roles more defined or 2 Dps content is far easier and cheaper to design . Im thinking its 2 because i do think the team has talent and knowledge its just more costly and time consuming to produce.

idk

Callidous wrote: »

Sure, you don't have to take that passive, but why does that effect exist in the first place? It seems out of place to me, so if anyone can explain how it fits in with the effects for the other staff types, I'd be thankful.

The thing is, I'm leveling a sorc and at one point took that passive, but now I'm forced to either respecc or never use ice staves. That doesn't seem right, if you ask me.

Because the Zos combat team went a purely lady route to create a magicka tanking weapon. No question about it.

Laziness begets substandard results. We can thank our combat team for this.

luen79rwb17_ESO

I'd say tanking Ice Staves need to be removed from the game.

FrostFallFox

Umm, I actually like it. I never use them as a pure DPS weapon, just for the pretty colors. And I like the taunt with heavy attacks. It's different but people want the same old stuff.

NewBlacksmurf

FrostFallFox wrote: »

Umm, I actually like it. I never use them as a pure DPS weapon, just for the pretty colors. And I like the taunt with heavy attacks. It's different but people want the same old stuff.

I fought it but now that it's out...and how sets work.... I think it makes a ton of sense especially considering resources.

I res killed my Templar to tank again due to it all and for casual play it's a blast.

Now I don't end game tank but I don't cthink snider Vet dungeons endgame tanking

DarkAedin

It was a bad change. There was no reason to change the ice staff from cc to taunt.

The counter to this is so obvious its looking u right in the face: does sword and shield heavy attack taunt?
No? Why? Because theres 2 taunt abilities in the game. One can be morphed to mag and its ranged.
Why should an ice staff tank get a free cost taunt over a sword and board user? And ranged at that!

So instead of making a viable ice staff passive for tanking, they just screwed the concept of an ice mage.
Ice mage - previously played and wanted archtype
Sword and board tanking - previously played and wanted archtype
Ice staff tanking - was never asked for by the playerbase. And infact was rejected by us, but devs went through with it anyway.
This topic has been complained about so many times. But i have yet to see a thread made by a player thanking zos for ice staff tanking.
White knighting for zos this deep into thier fubard game is just rediculous.

Wifeaggro13

DarkAedin wrote: »

It was a bad change. There was no reason to change the ice staff from cc to taunt.

The counter to this is so obvious its looking u right in the face: does sword and shield heavy attack taunt?
No? Why? Because theres 2 taunt abilities in the game. One can be morphed to mag and its ranged.
Why should an ice staff tank get a free cost taunt over a sword and board user? And ranged at that!

So instead of making a viable ice staff passive for tanking, they just screwed the concept of an ice mage.
Ice mage - previously played and wanted archtype
Sword and board tanking - previously played and wanted archtype
Ice staff tanking - was never asked for by the playerbase. And infact was rejected by us, but devs went through with it anyway.
This topic has been complained about so many times. But i have yet to see a thread made by a player thanking zos for ice staff tanking.
White knighting for zos this deep into thier fubard game is just rediculous.

Because Worbel jas very little intrest in trying to make any dynamic other then dps. He was tasked to fix tanking and he increased their dps, and removed much of the survivability and cc to keep pvp crowd from losing thier minds. then nerfed the content to fix the fact most could not adjust. Now he jas completely given up amd decieded to make all classes and content dps dependent. And the other rolls an after thought.

Koensol

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

Ice staff was better with the snare, it made more sense. Ice attacks are supposed to freeze, not enrage me to attack you for chilling me lol

There are a lot of these illogical things in eso. I once made a list about things that make no sense AT all. Heavy attacks restoring stamina for example. So counter intuitive... It just seems ZOS runs out of options and keep doing these weird little changes because they cannot come up with something better.

Tasear

No

Fallen_Ray

Koensol wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

Ice staff was better with the snare, it made more sense. Ice attacks are supposed to freeze, not enrage me to attack you for chilling me lol

There are a lot of these illogical things in eso. I once made a list about things that make no sense AT all. Heavy attacks restoring stamina for example. So counter intuitive... It just seems ZOS runs out of options and keep doing these weird little changes because they cannot come up with something better.

@Koensol
LOl I know Man.

It's like:

"Almost out ...of energy...I gotta smack your head with my un-enchanted heavy sword with all mi might so I can absorb energy from you and hit you with wrecking blow"

But seriously, this just makes enchantments that are supposed to absorb magicka or stamina useless. In the Elder Scrolls world resource absorb is possible only if the weapon is enchanted.

But I believe you there are a lot of stuff in the game that just... don't add up.

kargen27

TheDarkoil wrote: »

Doesn't make any sense because if you threw a snowball at someone's head they would probably laugh, if you threw a fireball at them they would probably get angry and attack you back...

Or they would run away before you could throw more fire at them and charge you to interrupt throwing another snowball.

NewBlacksmurf

DarkAedin wrote: »

It was a bad change. There was no reason to change the ice staff from cc to taunt.

The counter to this is so obvious its looking u right in the face: does sword and shield heavy attack taunt?
No? Why? Because theres 2 taunt abilities in the game. One can be morphed to mag and its ranged.
Why should an ice staff tank get a free cost taunt over a sword and board user? And ranged at that!

So instead of making a viable ice staff passive for tanking, they just screwed the concept of an ice mage.
Ice mage - previously played and wanted archtype
Sword and board tanking - previously played and wanted archtype
Ice staff tanking - was never asked for by the playerbase. And infact was rejected by us, but devs went through with it anyway.
This topic has been complained about so many times. But i have yet to see a thread made by a player thanking zos for ice staff tanking.
White knighting for zos this deep into thier fubard game is just rediculous.

@DarkAedin

Specific to the heavy attack sword and shield.
Because of how it's programed if they added a taunt to heavy attack, that would be terrible and catastrophic.

1. That would mean anyone using just one hand with or without a shield....would always taunt. They have to add another item and weapon line prior to making heavy attack a taunt for sword and shield.
2. The wind up at melee range doesn't make sense to taunt when the purpose of the heavy attack is stamina regen. The skill slotted taunts AND depending upon the morph adds real value.
just like the ele-drain or other destruction staff skill in addition to the magic taunt skill morphs.

SFDB

I'm very excited for when they change Mace so that its heavy attack gives you five seconds of Major Mending.

majulook

I did try the frost staff with heavy attack taunt. I found it amusing that the Heavy Attack to regenerate Magicka, at the same time makes the enemy swarm to you.

it is stupid, just as you need to regen you try and regen and end calling in the enemy.

Vercingetorix

I keep telling everyone that ZoS needs to add an Alteration Staff skill line for tanking. The skill line could feature wards and defensive bonuses as well as a ranged taunt. Blocking with an Alteration staff consumes magicka and completing a heavy attack with one gives you a personal shield for a brief time. The special ward spell from the Alteration skill line could apply Minor Maim to any attackers who strike it, kind of like a "passive Heroic Slash debuff" effect.

By having a dedicated "tanking" skill line for magicka players (just like stamina has), there would be a whole new archetype of builds opened up for the game and build diversity would be introduced. Imagine a Warden tank with an Alteration staff that can use its Alteration skills to give itself a ward, taunt from range, and still use its class aiblities to off-heal and buff its defenses!

Change Ice Staff to feature a chilled, cripple-defenses effect along with snaring from the Blockade effect. Increase the speed for ice staff attacks a bit and then all 3 elements are solid DPS options in their own way. Fire does DoT, Lightning does AoE splash damage, and Ice debuffs defenses and snares foes - all have secondary effects that improve combat effectiveness for a DD role now.

Bowser

As a tank its way better to just use inner fire and not put points into that passive so you're able to heavy attack for resources. The ice staff taunt is dumb and needs to be removed.

Zardayne

Adding taunt to a magical staff is another one of those WTF Zos decisions.
I've always hated the way this game pigeonholes everything. Fire is for single target damage, lightning is for aoe damage, ice is for tanking/taunting. Such ridiculous mechanics

Avalon

My thought is that they need to add a passive to heavy armor that says that whenever you heavy attack with whatever weapon you are wielding it causes a taunt for X seconds per piece of heavy armor worn. Then, remove taunt off of ice staff, and perhaps change the other taunts in the game to other benefits instead of taunt?

ANGEL_BtVS

Vercingetorix wrote: »

I keep telling everyone that ZoS needs to add an Alteration Staff skill line for tanking. The skill line could feature wards and defensive bonuses as well as a ranged taunt. Blocking with an Alteration staff consumes magicka and completing a heavy attack with one gives you a personal shield for a brief time. The special ward spell from the Alteration skill line could apply Minor Maim to any attackers who strike it, kind of like a "passive Heroic Slash debuff" effect.

By having a dedicated "tanking" skill line for magicka players (just like stamina has), there would be a whole new archetype of builds opened up for the game and build diversity would be introduced. Imagine a Warden tank with an Alteration staff that can use its Alteration skills to give itself a ward, taunt from range, and still use its class aiblities to off-heal and buff its defenses!

Change Ice Staff to feature a chilled, cripple-defenses effect along with snaring from the Blockade effect. Increase the speed for ice staff attacks a bit and then all 3 elements are solid DPS options in their own way. Fire does DoT, Lightning does AoE splash damage, and Ice debuffs defenses and snares foes - all have secondary effects that improve combat effectiveness for a DD role now.

I like the idea of a separate staff line for tanking. I was originally thinking that it could be done through the destro passives but your idea is probably better. Either way it seems illogical that they went out of their way to make the Warden ice line which includes passives and skills to boost ice dps, only to make the ice staff completely useless for dps. The only thing I would add to your concept is that if you had ice apply debuffs and snares, you would have to make it so that in PvE tougher enemies including bosses are no longer immune. Otherwise, the ice staff is still only viable for trash mobs.