Advice for Warden Healer?

death_pudding

For all 3 years that i've played this game, i have always dpsed. So it's what im used to, but healing is a much different playstyle from dpsing and was i wondering if I could get any advice for it, mainly in terms of warden. By now i've completed most vet dungeons and all the normal craglorn trials while healing on my warden. I have attempted vCoS but that didn't end well. I mainly want to start healing vet trials and am very familiar with the vet mechanics to the craglorn trials as i have dpsed them many times. I can't help but feel like warden isn't good enough tho its probably just me that isnt good enough.

And these are the skills i use. If anyone has any alternative setups than by all means let me know.

Resto front bar: Enchanted Growth, combat prayer, energy orbs, healing springs, blue betty. Ult, northern storm
Lightning staff back bar: Lotus blossum, ele blockade, ice fortress, ele drain, budding seeds. Ult: Aggressive war horn

Integral1900

Easy, play a Templar

Seriousely, warden makes a passable off healer but if things go to the wall i still think Templar is vastly superior, it's the same with tanking, given the choice I would always want a dragon knight because it's just better in general. Warden magic dps is useless and the stamina version only kicks ass because it mostly uses weapon and guild skill lines... like every other stam dps...

Could you get away with it? Yes, but don't be surprised if you get more of the blame for a wipe than a Templar would.

Seraphayel

Why should a Templar healer be better than a Warden healer? Just give me one reason (and no, faster reviving doesn't count).

Draqone

Seraphayel wrote: »

Why should a Templar healer be better than a Warden healer? Just give me one reason (and no, faster reviving doesn't count).

3 reasons why Templars are better:

Shards are much easier to pick up than orbs, especially for a tank who can not run around.
Breath of Life is an amazing "panic button" vastly superior to Healing Ward.
Ritual gives a synergy and a free cleanse for you and one other person.

Of course, there are some good sides to a warden healer but he is inferior to templar.

THAT SAID

Warden is not as bad as Integral made it sounds, it's possible to do all content in this game on a warden healer, though in trials you want at least 1 templar heal for sure.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Well, hard to give advise, just based on what dungeons you can or can't do. Especially cos is a bad example since it has a lot of oneshot mechanics where you as healer can't do anything if someone else stands in a wrong spot.
What exactly are your issues? Do you run out of magicka or are there certain mechanics where you feel like your healing is too weak?
In general healing springs, combat prayer, purge and energy orbs are enough to heal any content on any class. Will be slower than with a perfect setup and require the dds to not stand in stupid places, but you can do it.

Your skillbar looks decent enough to be a good healer. I'd personally change just a few minor things:
- barrier instead of northern storm (just for the passive magicka reg, I don't use defensive ultimates anyway)
- efficient purge instead of blue betty (don't be selfish, your allies want to be purged aswell, especially if there a ressource drain effects like on cos last boss)
- shimmering shield / frozen device / subterranean assault for those fights and group setups where they are usefull

Neaa

Seraphayel wrote: »

Why should a Templar healer be better than a Warden healer? Just give me one reason (and no, faster reviving doesn't count).

1) Shards restore both resources, are stationary and have a reliable synergie usage while beeing cheaper than orbs
2) Breath of life is simply the best emergency heal in game
3) minor sorcery for the Group from templar. warden has no such passive ... (no, minor toughnes does not Count. you got that from warhorn)
4) ritual of Retribution is so good. it Triggers your SPC for no effort, deals a lot of aoe dmg and provides an additional synergie for alkosh tanks.
5) Power of the light is the only reliable sorce for minor breach and minor fracture
6) nice and easy off dps on templar thanks to unstable core and Jesus beam
7) Need more?

death_pudding wrote: »

For all 3 years that i've played this game, i have always dpsed. So it's what im used to, but healing is a much different playstyle from dpsing and was i wondering if I could get any advice for it, mainly in terms of warden. By now i've completed most vet dungeons and all the normal craglorn trials while healing on my warden. I have attempted vCoS but that didn't end well. I mainly want to start healing vet trials and am very familiar with the vet mechanics to the craglorn trials as i have dpsed them many times. I can't help but feel like warden isn't good enough tho its probably just me that isnt good enough.

And these are the skills i use. If anyone has any alternative setups than by all means let me know.

Resto front bar: Enchanted Growth, combat prayer, energy orbs, healing springs, blue betty. Ult, northern storm
Lightning staff back bar: Lotus blossum, ele blockade, ice fortress, ele drain, budding seeds. Ult: Aggressive war horn

maybe you should try a Setup like this:

Mainbar resto:
springs, combat prayer, blue Betty, budding seeds, healing ward, enchanted forest

offbar lightning destro:
Mystic orbs, elemental Blockade, ele drain, enchanted growth, Expansive Frost Cloak, warhorn

for Dungeons save mode run a SPC / Mending gear Setup.
If you have good DDs you could run SPC / Master architect for even moar dmg.. Warhorn on tank and forest spam for Major slayer.


Cheers

Flameheart

death_pudding wrote: »

For all 3 years that i've played this game, i have always dpsed. So it's what im used to, but healing is a much different playstyle from dpsing and was i wondering if I could get any advice for it, mainly in terms of warden. By now i've completed most vet dungeons and all the normal craglorn trials while healing on my warden. I have attempted vCoS but that didn't end well. I mainly want to start healing vet trials and am very familiar with the vet mechanics to the craglorn trials as i have dpsed them many times. I can't help but feel like warden isn't good enough tho its probably just me that isnt good enough.

And these are the skills i use. If anyone has any alternative setups than by all means let me know.

Resto front bar: Enchanted Growth, combat prayer, energy orbs, healing springs, blue betty. Ult, northern storm
Lightning staff back bar: Lotus blossum, ele blockade, ice fortress, ele drain, budding seeds. Ult: Aggressive war horn

Please ignore the above discussion about templars and warden healers. They all mean healing from the trial point of view. In trials a templar truly has still some advantages. For 4-man-stuff you should be able to heal all vet stuff as any other healer (NB, DK, Sorc and templar) can do it. I did it for example, but ok, I didn't do it with random groups of course. It's the only instance where I do reallocate even my CPs from my usual DD build to a healer build (points into blessed for example and using the Atronach mundus).

Your skill bars already look good, but especially for vCoS I miss one skill -> Purge, at best Efficient Purge. The nasty lady in the end applies debuffs to the tank in the red bubble phase (a tank can't avoid them, one or even a few will always hit). You need to cleanse them fast, otherwise the healing reduction on the tank will most likely result in the tank's death after the next heavy attack.

vCoS has some nasty mechanics all group members should know and it won't work if the tank and the DDs don't care somewhat for their inc damage by themselves. So it's ok to have shield on your bar as a DD and use Magma Shell instead of warhorn as a tank in times of need.

...and never forget the first rule for a healer: Don't die (so shield yourself if necessary).

Dakmor_Kavu

Warden healer (previously Templar healers main) reporting in, and I must say having healed all vet trials except vhof, warden absolutely holds it's own as a healer and I haven't looked back to my Templar since. For dungeon content wardens can heal vet 4 man content without issue. We have more than enough healing options, and orbs require a positioning and planning, but are just fine for group sustain.

I would be remiss if I didn't address that yes, warden DOES require aiming and positioning, but this factor alone does NOT make it less powerful as a healer than a Templar, it just requires some extra care when playing.

Personally I did have a rocky transition when moving from my Templar healer to full time warden healer. I thought warden was clunky and lagged behind a Templar. But I was so, so wrong. I forced myself to practice my mobility and emergency healing. Where and how? Cyrodil. I figured it there was ever a place to feel pressured both on my own survival and others, that would be the place. After 3 hours I was in love. I felt so much more comfortable on the warden, and had realized many of their benefits over Templar. Yes, it is different than dungeon healing, but it was a great way to get to know my characters healing in a high stress area. After that I was much more comfortable when I did he back to dungeon healing, and making the few adjustments to heal dungeons was easy.

When comes to trials: do you want two warden healers? Probably not. Spears are still unbeatable for the tank and the AOE magika steal can be nice for trash pulls. Your also want to maximize unique buffs, BUT there is so much goodness that a warden provides that people seem to be overlooking.

My current gear setup:
5 spc, 5 twilight remedy (or worm cult, depending on needs), 1 monster helm. Yeah I know I don't have master/maelstrom staff, but that's on the bucket list and I'm just not a fan of either of those so I've been lazy on getting them.

Heal bar: healing springs, combat prayer, flex (usually mutagen but that may change for trials), seeds, netch (here for the 12% regen), frost ultimate (8% max magika, or will replace with forest ultimate if I just need raw healing).

Group bar (light staff): orbs, elemental barrier, flex (Purge or healing vines or dps if it's a dungeon etc), fungal bloom (so I'm never without access to a heal), frost cloak, war horn.

So far the setup has given me no issue, though I'm sure there's one or two things I could do to optimize the skills with the class passives a hair more.

Firstly for me the best part of a warden is that it's mobile. So mobile. A Templar sets his house down and it is limited to 1 area. Yes can re deploy elsewhere, but he has to physically go there to do so. There is a proximity requirement (meaning you may be moving in to danger as well). A warden? I can drop my circle anywhere and my netch follows me. I can essentially place my "house" anywhere, and only 1 aspect of it needs to be repositioned, and that 1 part is so cheap to do.

Then we look at the abilities. For me, there are 4 real standouts, but certainly these are not the only 4 great warden abilities

Seeds: good lord where do I begin with this.... You think BOL is a great heal? This one provides a synergy that anyone in the circle can trigger for a great hot, can be an instant heal on way more than 2 targets, and because of the synergy (which people don't have to fight over) will proc twilight remedy set like there is no tomorrow on so many people since bloom synergy should literally be available 100% of the time. I cannot stress how well twilight remedy works with a warden.I This factor alone (the readily provided synergy to anyone running a synergy proc set) is far too often overlooked.

Fungal growth: why people keep trying to compare this to BOL is beyond me. This is basically a copy of combat prayer with longer duration and a different buff. Throw this down every 20 seconds for nice sustain support. I run this on my buff bar (seeds is on my heal bar) so I'm never without a heal option, but in a pinch it is NOT the big go to heal for a warden as far as I'm concerned.

Frost cloak: huge 28m coverage and great 20 duration so you don't have to re apply it every 5 seconds.

Netch: what needs to be said? It's mobile regen, how great is that? Plus it counts towards animal companion passives for ultimate gen and 12% stat regen, all while being 100% free!

Healing vines: 1 cast that spreads health drain easy as you please. Get this on the tank and you'll be draining health left right and center. Even if it lands on someone else chances are it will spread well.


Ok this post is already long enough, and I can't goof around at work any more, but suffice it to say there are still more great benefits a warden can put out both in PvP, dungeons, or trials. (pulling vines, ice cc, frozen gate etc)

DeadlyRecluse

Neaa wrote: »

3) minor sorcery for the Group from templar. warden has no such passive ... (no, minor toughnes does not Count. you got that from warhorn)

Wardens can grant minor endurance/intellect via Enchanted Growth. Not saying it's comparable to minor sorcery, but it's better than a sharp stick in the eye.

Sunah

I run both a Templar and Warden healer for trials. The main differences between the 2.. Is Shards is MUCH better. Its quick and lands where you want it to and stands the hell still. The only thing I like about the orbs is that you can have more than 1 out at a time unlike the shards. But still Shards>blue balls.

Templar provides minor sorc, which I notice MOST Templars do not utilize for some stupid reason. That's a 5% damage buff for everyone which is pretty amazing. Wardens provide the minor endurance/intellect which is 10% recovery. And during this patch sustain has become a bigger issue. So overall that MAY provide a dps increase just for being able to sustain everyone better. Lucky for the minor sorc issue, any Templar can provide that, they just need to cast a dawns wraith ability. So in my opinion, warden wins that category.

Breath of life issue ive been hearing about... Enchanted growth I believe is MUCH better, since it heals ALL allies in the area instead of what.. the 2 1/2?

Both classes provide plenty of synergies so that's not issue.

Kattemynte

I mained the Templar healer for the first few years and really enjoyed it. However, after reading all the comments before me and from my past experience I am going to have to say that for well organized groups the Templar is heads above the Warden in terms of being a healer. However, for pugs I am actually saying that the Warden is much better.
Why do I think this? (From experience and no hard numbers) As previously mentioned the Templar has much more group utility than the Warden. This is even after all the nerfs the Templar took when Morrowind came out. Shards are easier to grab and group buffs like the minor sorcery increase the groups efficiency.
However, in terms of pure, raw healing power the Warden I believe far exceeds the Templar. First and foremost, the Ultimate. For only 75 ulti you get a better version of the Templars ulti that lasts (depending on morph) for 10 seconds. In that short amount of time you can be close to getting another ulti off. You can also do other things while this is active unlike the warden and it is not centered on you.
I keep seeing that people say BoL is still far superior. Honestly, if it was working as intended (line of sight and conal) you only heal up to 2 1/2 people (1/2 can be outside of cone though). The wardens Enchanted Growth heals for roughly the same amount but for all group members in the same cone area but also get the same passive of the Templars Aura (minor intellect and endurance). Budding Seeds if used correctly could be considered the "oh crap" skill.
I would personally use Leeching Vines to give lifesteal so that dps passively get healing. Lotus Blossom is a great Magelight swap. Instead of passively having spell crit, whenever you do damage with light or heavy attacks (going to be doing anyways for resources) you heal others for a decent amount.
Honestly, the only healing skill out of the Wardens arsenal I would not use as it is very situational would be the Nature's Grasp. Kind of like how hardly any Templar uses the Healing Ritual.
The Blue Betty is similar to the Templars Channeled Focus where you passively get Magicka back but will also give the major Sorcery and follows you for almost 30 seconds whereas the Focus you need to re-enter or recast after a short amount of time.
(Sorry, this kinda became a warden skill list)

In the end, in a trial situation I would actually take at least one warden and one Templar if I was the group leader.

Neaa

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Neaa wrote: »

3) minor sorcery for the Group from templar. warden has no such passive ... (no, minor toughnes does not Count. you got that from warhorn)

Wardens can grant minor endurance/intellect via Enchanted Growth. Not saying it's comparable to minor sorcery, but it's better than a sharp stick in the eye.

you have this on sorc empowered ward already. uptime of this in our raid is usualy about 70 - 80% without any warden.
In terms of group buffs there is nothing a warden can do that is "unique" like the minor sorcery, minor prophecy and so on.
Im not saying warden healer is bad. i have a warden healer myself and its no problem to heal with it. in fact the warden healer is more viable than the tank or DD spec
But templar healer still top notch.

Tasear

Integral1900 wrote: »

Easy, play a Templar

Seriousely, warden makes a passable off healer but if things go to the wall i still think Templar is vastly superior, it's the same with tanking, given the choice I would always want a dragon knight because it's just better in general. Warden magic dps is useless and the stamina version only kicks ass because it mostly uses weapon and guild skill lines... like every other stam dps...

Could you get away with it? Yes, but don't be surprised if you get more of the blame for a wipe than a Templar would.

I came in here just about to say... son you are lucky as in back in my day they would tell you to play templar! At last, it's still here such elitiest... doesn't answer your comment

Warden is interesting actually, might consider off tank healer as they would pull it off well! Personally, I am going to try undaunted bastion (syneries well with frost staff ) and Alexima mercy ( heals allies based on damage) .

In regards to your build might just consider getting rid of blockade and take crushing shock or say champion 120 passive instead (rolling causes off balance). Might also try frost staff for blockade and use to slow enemies

*note concussion/off balance with bloackade is about 2 to 4% chance.

P.S try sorcerer instead http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/dark-priestess-pug-proof/

robertbmilesb14_ESO

Neaa wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Neaa wrote: »

3) minor sorcery for the Group from templar. warden has no such passive ... (no, minor toughnes does not Count. you got that from warhorn)

Wardens can grant minor endurance/intellect via Enchanted Growth. Not saying it's comparable to minor sorcery, but it's better than a sharp stick in the eye.

you have this on sorc empowered ward already. uptime of this in our raid is usualy about 70 - 80% without any warden.
In terms of group buffs there is nothing a warden can do that is "unique" like the minor sorcery, minor prophecy and so on.
Im not saying warden healer is bad. i have a warden healer myself and its no problem to heal with it. in fact the warden healer is more viable than the tank or DD spec
But templar healer still top notch.

By this same logic, if a Warden is in a group with a Templar dps or tank, then all the benefits of a Templar healer disappear.

If a Warden Healer wants to use the sta sub assault, they can reliably keep up major breach and fracture which if anyone wants to test, may out perform minor sorcery (only spell damage).

Really though, this argument is all about talking in circles, both play a little bit different but do the same task effectively and efficiently.

KniteShayd

Everyone is all "but shards..."
Pffft.
As a tank, I NEVER rely on it.
A good tank knows running out of resources is bad. An AWESOME tank knows how to sustain without help.
There is no excuse for a pure tank to be worrying about resources with the CP changes & knowing proper rotations with weaving taunts, blocking, & utility/potions. If you do a little DPS, thats great, but not at the cost of survival.

In otherwords, Warden healers aren't subpar, if your tank can sustain & survive.

Neaa

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

By this same logic, if a Warden is in a group with a Templar dps or tank, then all the benefits of a Templar healer disappear.

If a Warden Healer wants to use the sta sub assault, they can reliably keep up major breach and fracture which if anyone wants to test, may out perform minor sorcery (only spell damage).

Really though, this argument is all about talking in circles, both play a little bit different but do the same task effectively and efficiently.

uh pierce armor and elemental drain .. here you go.
you have this buff anyways in a raid.

KniteShayd wrote: »

Everyone is all "but shards..."
Pffft.
As a tank, I NEVER rely on it.
A good tank knows running out of resources is bad. An AWESOME tank knows how to sustain without help.

what about alkosh?

what about the DDs? you saying we shouldnt use shards because the tank can sustain?
what about the undaunted passives giving you resources and *** for pressing x?