Are clocks anuic or padomaic?

Bringer

A question that has been bothering me of late. The more i think on it, the less certain i become! Even the consultation of highly qualified individuals versed in the lore has only deepened my uncertainty and left new questions. At one time i was uncertain for the exact opposite reason i am now uncertain. My presuppositions were in two ways wrong which nullified each other leaving me confused again but in reverse. Understanding the answer to this may well have deep cosmic significance.

Cadbury

For the uninitiated:

https://reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/3pvx6z/the_difference_between_being_anuic_and_padomaic/

MLGProPlayer

I believe they are EST.

Synfaer

Clocks are actually the physical manifestation of 4th dimensional trap that we are ensnared in.

ofSunhold

Anuic

Time itself may be of Padomay, but the attempt to define it into orderly little bits - Anuic.








* I could be wrong though.

AtAfternoon

Anuic

Obviously anuic, anyone who have read The Truths in Sequence knows this.

Bringer

I too am confounded by this, the answer eludes me

You see my initial assumption was that

time=change=padomaic, and clocks=mechanical=very orderly and structured=anuic
This created a conflict in that we were measuring change with order

However i have since learned that time was separated from change by trinimac, and time is in fact an anuic force full stop. Mechanical things, however, have their origin entierly from purely padomaic entities, and so could be considered padomaic forces, doubly so that magic is in general considered to be anuic and mechanical things are somewhat of an ideological oposite of magical things, at least on the surface, but thats just my assumption.

This does me no good however because now we are measuing an anuic force through padomaic means. Does this make the clock padomaic?

p.s., i did confirm that clocks actually exist. I assumed they did because clockwork things exist, but i was not certain they existed

Morgul667

I too am confounded by this, the answer eludes me

Bringer wrote: »

You see my initial assumption was that

time=change=padomaic, and clocks=mechanical=very orderly and structured=anuic
This created a conflict in that we were measuring change with order

However i have since learned that time was separated from change by trinimac, and time is in fact an anuic force full stop. Mechanical things, however, have their origin entierly from purely padomaic entities, and so could be considered padomaic forces, doubly so that magic is in general considered to be anuic and mechanical things are somewhat of an ideological oposite of magical things, at least on the surface, but thats just my assumption.

This does me no good however because now we are measuing an anuic force through padomaic means. Does this make the clock padomaic?

p.s., i did confirm that clocks actually exist. I assumed they did because clockwork things exist, but i was not certain they existed

By this reasoning, time would be anuic but the clock would be padomaic ?

Idinuse

Anuic

Hm. Isn't time actually just an illusion and the only thing that exists as a time measure is matter's movement in space?

But idk, everything is relative....except that particular statement. For if that statement is also relative, then at times everyting is not relative. Then again if it's always true that everyting is relative, then that statemet is absolute, and hence not everything is relative.

42 maybe?

Bringer

I too am confounded by this, the answer eludes me

Morgul667 wrote: »

By this reasoning, time would be anuic but the clock would be padomaic ?

Yes, the thing is im not sure if that changes the nature of the clock. Im not sure if the clocks purpose can somehow alter its nature. I also dont have a solid 'mechanical things are padomaic' answer like i have a 'time is anuic', so it could be that mechanical things are not really either. It makes sense to me that they would be anuic by nature on the surface, as i first assumed, but it is true that they seem to show up with decidedly padomaic associations.

Yakidafi

I too am confounded by this, the answer eludes me

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I believe they are EST.

Elder scrolls time right?

and why would a clock be either one?

If it can be either one then I would say it depend on its creator

LMar

Anuic

What if... they are none? They are just creations by mortals trying to measure an Anuic ordering of time. Akatosh making time linear and all

phaneub17_ESO

I like pie.

Shardan4968

Padomaic

I chose both somehow...

ArchMikem

I don't know what those words mean but I clicked on the thread anyway

Honesty is the best policy, as far as I know.

Faulgor

Anuic

Anuic, of course.

Anu/Anui-El/Aka/Akatosh put the chaos of events into order via sequential time. Linear time is a manifestation of order, even though it has an element of change in it. Change would be even happier if it could be unrestrained, but time puts it on a leash.

A clock, then, as a measuring device of this phenomenon, is the pinacle of imposing order on chaotic forces.

Rygonix

I don't know what those words mean but I clicked on the thread anyway

First time I have heard these terms, I think? Either way this is a way deeper conversation than I am used to.

Tai-Chi

Clocks are neither Anuic nor Padomic.

A clock is a mechanical device (for measuring Nirn real-time, in this context) that was invented and made by an individual or a group of individuals.

Trying to assign them to either Anuic or Padomic presumes that one believes that lore is the truth.
Now we all know - and if we do not know then we should - that lore is not necessarily the truth.
By definition, lore is an oral tradition and it is therefor subject to all the biases, inacuracies, exaggerations etc that go hand-in-hand with such traditions.

Belidos

I don't even understand the question, i'm not even going to hazard a guess at the answer

LukosCreyden

A clock is a man made product, so is not of importance. The passage of time, however, is anuic. The lack of a passage of time, all events happening at once, chaos, that is padomaic.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Clocks as a "thing" aren't either padomaic nor anuic. As a measuring tool, they measure something that doesn't exist for Anuic and that Padomaic have no control over.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Rygonix wrote: »

First time I have heard these terms, I think? Either way this is a way deeper conversation than I am used to.

Yep. It's a sort of replica of the very often asked, yet never answered philosophical question "does time exist ?". As in "does it exist outside of our conscience, which needs to be structured around beginning/end, before/after".

I don't love *everything* in the Elder Scrolls Lore, but the entire Stase/Chaos premise is fantastic and pretty universal.

Bringer

I too am confounded by this, the answer eludes me

LukosCreyden wrote: »

product,

So would you then say that daedric artifacts are not padomaic and just nothing as well?

anitajoneb17_ESO

LukosCreyden wrote: »

A clock is a man made product, so is not of importance. The passage of time, however, is anuic. The lack of a passage of time, all events happening at once, chaos, that is padomaic.

I see it exactly reversed. It the chaos/change/things happening that requires "time passing by". Neverchanging static as in Anuic doesn't require time. No need for time if nothing ever changes.

LukosCreyden

Bringer wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

product,

So would you then say that daedric artifacts are not padomaic and just nothing as well?

Daedric artifacts are created by padomaic beings. Take the Wabbajak, for example. It causes changes in things, unpredictable and chaotic changes. It's effects are padomaic. But, what of the staff, as an object? It is a staff. Unless influenced by outside means, it will remain a staff. Is that anuic? If it doesn't get used, does it have a purpose? Does anything change? My characters in Skyrim was given the Wabbajak, I put it in a display stand and left it there. It sat there doing nothing, in stasis, as it were.

Keep in mind, though, the concepts of anu and padomay are very complex, it may be impossible to label something as one or the other, as in many ways, they could encompass both concepts.

Turelus

I don't know what those words mean but I clicked on the thread anyway

I came here to learn, now I am wiser.

dodgehopper_ESO

I'll answer this question with a question: Is Auriel (Akatosh) Anuic or Padomaic.

Tai-Chi

Turelus wrote: »

I came here to learn, now I am wiser.

Confucius says.

QUOTE
By three methods we may learn wisdom.

• First, by reflection, which is noblest
• Second, by imitation, which is easiest.
• Third by experience, which is the bitterest.

I suppose visiting these forums most ably fits into the third category for you.

Tai-Chi says
Not all experiences are the bitterest - some can be the sweetest. I hope your learning curve fits into the later and not the former.

If all else fails, ale has a fine, bittersweet, nutty taste. Maybe the best experience of all - in moderation of course.

wakeyjimb16_ESO

I too am confounded by this, the answer eludes me

With regards to time they could even be considered contradictory terms as the Anuic 'fitting' of linear time (which, incidentally only came into existence via a Padomaic reaction by Anuic beings to Lorkhan's formation of matter...or whatever) creates an order or stability to regulate and comprehend a previously eternal and unknowable concept of non-linear time. Basically making 'order' and 'stability' for a chaotic and unbound term. Order vs Chaos, Stasis vs Change.

The difficulty is that the inception of linear time actually forms a quantifiable and knowable understanding of 'progression' i.e 'change' that is both constant and unstoppable/inevitable (to a degree). So the Anuic conception of time is both stasis/order and constant change/flux. In practice. this creates no end of loops and time prisms that contradict each other as various entities in the TES setting can alter time, even retroactively with very noticeable effects (depending on what types of trees are in Cyrodiil today...).

Padomaic concepts suggest chaos but the Padomaic Void (and Sithis etc.) is also an eternal, unknowable stasis or nothingness, suggesting order. Because this non-linear time/nothingness is cyclic (sort of; everything and anything can and is happening at once/not at all) rather than linear, it forms it's own sort of stasis/order where there is no 'progression' of time/events because everything that can/will happen, already has (and is currently, and will happen again right now, and again next Fredas; except it won't because Fredas is a means of linear structure to time which doesn't exist except when it does/did/will...)

Is Static Chaos substantively different to Chaotic Stasis?

Anuic/Padomaic are just lenses mortals use to try and conceptualise the same thing in TES. They overlap and contradict.

But clocks are (presumably) made on Nirn so they're, in the most basic sense, a Padomaic means of measuring Anuic linear time, so let's just say they're both/neither so nobody is right/wrong and everyone can interpret it their own merry way (welcome to TES Lore....)

Anlace

Padomaic

Chaos encompasses all, and all things return to the void.

Hail Sithis

sekou_trayvond

I like turtles.