More Detailed Thoughts on Removing Character Level/Gear Levels (WIP - Updated 6/17/2017)

Avran_Sylt

(Posting this early because the webpage failed and I lost all my progress last time, even though the draft was saved, couldn't get it back.)

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Handling the Skill Points

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Since there would no longer be character levels, this means that there are 64 skill points up in the air. my suggestion would be to tie these skill points to character class skill line leveling

This is how it would work:

Every 5th level of a class skill line, the character gains 1 skill point. Every 10th they gain an additional skill point. Every 25th they gain 2 additional skill points. At 50 they gain an additional skill point
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5:1
10:2
15:1
20:2
25:3
30:2
35:1
40:2
45:1
50:5

This means fully leveling a class skill line will give the player 20 total skill points. all three will yield 60 in total. The 4 remaining I think should be given to the player at the start.

(I would also suggest allowing a skill point accrual from getting non-class skills to levels 25 and 50. (only one point))

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Handling the Attributes

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Kinda drawing a blank here for now, so the basic suggestion is to let the player have at them from the start.

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Handling Crafting

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Since levels Will be removed, that means a lot of materials are going to be useless, and getting a crafting level to 50 is pointless (since that 10 points for writs is pointless if you can craft rubedite already). This will need to be addressed.

Here are my thoughts:

Armor and Weapons

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With the materials not being tied to levels, the different materials will only be used to adjust the base look of armor, and would allow players to craft different colored weapons end-game.

Since there is no level based gear, this means that using more materials is pointless, but I don't think it should, as it constitutes a drain for player mined resources, so this is the idea:

The player can use more materials in order to improve the total durability of an item. the less they use the more quickly it breaks, and vice versa. The player must improve their (Metalworking, Tailoring, Woodworking) passive in order to craft more durable items.

Repair costs for Armor and Weapons is now slightly parabolic when you repair items at a trader depending on the total durability.

The player can now repair their own weapons/armor using spare materials at a crafting station, but the number of materials used is somewhat parabolic if the player's crafting passive is not as high as the one used to craft the item. It is linear if it is.

Enchanting

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With the removal of character levels, this will leave several potency runes useless, and I don't think it should be so. So this is the thought:

There are 16 levels of potency runes, I recommend reducing that to 15 (so there is a mid-point)
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1-10 : 0/14
5-15 : 1/14
10-20 : 2/14
15-25 : 3/14
20-30 : 4/14
25-35 : 5/14
30-40 : 6/14
35-45 : 7/14
40-50 : 8/14
CP10-CP30 : 9/14
CP30-CP50 : 10/14
CP50-CP70 : 11/14
CP70-CP90 : 12/14
CP100-CP140 : 13/14
CP150 : 14/14
CP160[s/]

Weapon Enchantment:

the Potency runes current "level" will be used to influence the damage of the enchantment, and the Internal Cooldown of the enchantment. based on the fraction above.

Current Enchantment Values are obtained when using the 7/14 Potency Rune

At 14/14 a Weapon Enchantment will have twice the power (any duration is the same), but have twice the cooldown
At 0/14 a Weapon Enchantment will have Half the power (any duration is the same), but have half the cooldown.

Short recharge enchantments would be useful for proc builds and status builds, while high damage enchantments will be better suited to burst damage, and the middle can be used to keep it the same.

At first the player will only be able to craft the short ICD low damage enchantments, but the higher Potency skill passive they have, the more they have control over the effects of the enchantment.

Armor Enchantments:

[y] is equal to the opposing or complementary effect ratio.

Armor enchantments:
- Are now able to add resource regen, this is obtained by using the (x>0)/14 potency runes. It has ((14-x)/14)*Max Resource and ((x<=14)/14))*[y] Resource Regen
- Ratio = (Max Regen Bonus of Jewelry Glyph)/(Max Resource Bonus of Armor Enchantment)

Jewelry Enchantments: (WIP)

[y] is equal to the opposing or complementary effect ratio

Resource Regen:
-Regen Essence Runes are now able to add Cost Reduction , this is obtained by using the (x>0)/14 potency runes. It has ((14-x)/14)*Resource Regen and up to ((x<=14)/14)*[y] Cost Reduction.
-Ratio: (Max Cost Reduction Bonus of Jewelry Enchantment)/(Max Regen Bonus of Jewelry Glyph)

Damage: Can now add Resistances
- Damage Essence Runes are now able to add Physical or Spell Resistance by using the (x>0)/14 potency runes. Has ((14-x)/14)*Damage and has up to ((x<=14)/14) Cost Reduction
-Ratio = (Max Resistance bonus of Jewelry Glyph)/(Max Damage Bonus of Jewelry Glyph)
(opposite holds true for Resistance Glyphs)

Resistances: Can now add Damage
- Resistance Essence Runes are now able to add Physical or Spell Resistance by using the (x>0)/14 potency runes. Has ((14-x)/14) Resistance (Physical/Spell) and up to ((x<=14)/14)*[y] Damage
- Ratio = (Max Damage Bonus of Jewelry Weapon Glyph)/(Max Physical Resistance bonus of Jewelry Armor Glyph)

Specific Resistances: Can now Add Broadened Resistance
-Fire/Frost/Disease/Poison/Shock/ Essence Essence runes can add Spell or Physical Resistance using a (x>0)/14 potency rune. It has ((14-x)/14)*Resistance (Fire/Frost/Disease/Poison/Shock) and up to ((x<=14)/14)*[y] Resistance (Spell/Physical).
-Ratio: (Max Resistance (Spell/Physical) Bonus of Jewelry Enchantment)/(Max Resistance (Fire/Frost/Disease/Poison/Shock) Bonus of Jewelry Enchantment)

You can see the pattern.

Shielding/Bashing

Potion Speed/Potion Boost

Foods

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-add unique effects to foods to differentiate them, lower other stats on effected foods. (I.E. Fishy Stick Grants Increase Swim Speed)
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Alchemy

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-Solvents Have an innate effect added to them (these can easily be changed if they don't fit)

Potion Solvents:

Natural Water : No Bonus
Clear Water : Detection
Pristine Water : Restore Health
Clensed Water : Unstoppable
Filtered Water : Increase Physical Resistance
Purified Water : Increase Spell Resistance
Cloud Mist : Gradual Restore Health
Star Dew : Speed
Lorkhan's Tears : Vitality

Poison Solvents:

Grease : No Bonus
Ichor : Maim
Slime : Breach
Gall : Vulnerability
Terebinthine : Ravage Health
Pitch-Bile : Fracture
Tarblack : Hindrance
NIght-Oil : Invisibility
Alkahest : Gradual Ravage Health

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Handling The Undaunted

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-Minimum of 13 skill points required to start queueing
-Another Minimum total skill points needed to start doing vets

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Handling Cyrodil Entry

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Hallothiel

You have obviously given this a lot of thought and that's admirable but I have to ask why not just go & play another game?

Avran_Sylt

@Hallothiel

I do occasionally, and that game is Dark souls 3.

I'd love to see an MMO that isn't just solely about vertical progression and the endless grind, but more about improving how you play the game, and trying out various play-styles. Rather than grinding for the next best +stat, it's experimenting with what you actually use.

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT

I have to respectfully disagree here.

Removing levels will instantly turn the game even more boring. Be like keeping your armour for as long as you wish.

We need the insanity patch. Punishing level mobs 900+.

Avran_Sylt

@RIGHTEOUS_REPORT

But, once you hit CP160 there is no point to getting higher level gear, and everyone and their mother hates the idea of a gear cap increase.

leepalmer95

Again this is still not needed.

Skill lines isn't the same as progression, whats the point of this? Most people hit 50 around the time they're class lines hit 50.

Some don't need them to hit 50, so leave them around 40~ because theres no benefit for them after.

We don't need such big game turning changes, its fine the way it is. MMO's have levels.

Hallothiel

Quite like levelling - sense of achievement & all that.

In fact do need the rewards to give the dopamine hit otherwise people would not play quite so much.

Avran_Sylt

@leepalmer95

Hmm. maybe I should rephrase this:

Should all gear and all items have level requirements?

If yes, should the gear cap (CP level) increase at any point in time?

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT

I completely understand the issue with 160 gear, its so bad right now.

I've literally begged ZM to implement the insanity level gear CHAMPION 600+.

Fighting mobs at 900plus on Cadwells Gold. 3rd playthough.

Its time ZM, it time.

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT

Hallothiel wrote: »

Quite like levelling - sense of achievement & all that.

In fact do need the rewards to give the dopamine hit otherwise people would not play quite so much.

Exactly, where is the hit of dopamine ZM? I'm bored of 160 gear its the same old. I fall asleep playing now days. The quests are too noob. The items from quests are junk. What a waste of time and resources ZM. You created a masterpiece which has no feeling anymore.

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT

ZM you create such magnificent quests and the rewards are poor and the bosses are weak. Rendering the quests useless and mundane.

leepalmer95

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT wrote: »

ZM you create such magnificent quests and the rewards are poor and the bosses are weak. Rendering the quests useless and mundane.

If you want pve to be hard go do hard stuff vmsa, vet trials etc..

Or take your cp out and fight then.

Tandor

Just accept that your poll went against you, and move on.

If this isn't your style of game then don't play it, but show some respect to those whose style it is and respect also their overwhelming rejection of your first attempt to change the game into something different.

Avran_Sylt

@Tandor

I never actually voted on the poll, because I just wanted to see other's opinions. I'm still going to work on this regardless.

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT

I don't spend my CP points, this is the problem, having to nerf ourselves makes the game even more boring.

ZM cater for noobs on all levels. Very strange indeed.

Avran_Sylt

Started adding in the meat to the enchanting section, alchemy section is starting

STEVIL

Seems like much more than level removal - more like substantial rebuild of many thins to a new game.

Basically, no.

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT

Its time ZM, its time.

Aisle9

Let me begin by saying that I'm a supporter of level-less games, two of my favorite games of all times were (technically still both are) level-less, but here's the thing: players in MMOs are used to a certain kind of progression. Your character level defines your progression throughout the game. This is how it works and this is how people expect a game to work.

I heard people giving insane arguments against level-less games (e.g. "They are boring") without even playing enough of the game to understand the concept, but here's the thing: by removing the level progression you remove a known constant and introduce the need to understand the new system, which can put people off, even if, later on, can offer higher standards of competition.

Furthermore, a game previously with a leveled progression WILL NEVER be turned in a level-less game, while the opposite is possible, for the sake of accessibility. It would be a bad marketing move, way worse than any cash grab ever possible, because you will alienate part of the player base by changing a core feature of the game.

Great work thoough.