Official Discussion Thread for "Battlemaster’s Corner – The Zookeeper"

ZOS_GinaBruno
ZOS_GinaBruno
Community Manager
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This is the official discussion thread for the blog article Battlemaster’s Corner – The Zookeeper. The Battlemaster's Corner returns featuring ESO's newest class – the Warden! Check out the article to learn about the Zookeeper, a build created by Voxicity.

Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
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Staff Post
  • Fodore
    Fodore
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    But can this build keep my zoo?
    Before judging a man walk a mile in his shoes.
    After that who cares?
    They're a mile away and you've got their shoes.
  • Voxicity
    Voxicity
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    dpencil1 wrote: »
    I seriously had to LOL that the first build you choose to highlight is a Tremorscale/Viper build.

    (Working as intended)

    It's actually not as OP or easy to play as you might think, compared to a tremor stam sorc at least. Stamward self healing is pretty low (especially if not running rally) so it's pretty much a trade off to try and do as much burst damage as possible before the enemy kills you. Anyway I created the build for fun around the theme of animal companions so tremor and viper fit nicely, as well as making it pretty strong. And also put some other options with the monster set for those who are religiously against proc set stacking.
    Vox-ir - AR 43 - Flawless Conqueror - vAS+2 - vHoF - vMoL - Worm Wizard - Blackmarrow Necromancer - Amberplasm - Spiderkith - Master Angler

    PC EU AD

    1000+cp
  • Voxicity
    Voxicity
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    dpencil1 wrote: »
    Oh no, I'm not mad at you Vox. It's a good build guide with a lot of options. I just think it's funny that ZOS would choose to highlight a Tremorscale/Viper build, and first of all things! Sure it could be executed more easily on a Sorc or maybe a NB. No surprise they chose Warden as the first class to highlight. But seriously, with how much proc set builds are bemoaned, it's a very trolly choice for ZOS to lead with that.

    Yeah fair enough. I'm pretty much indifferent to them. I don't like how they work but if they're in the game then I'm not gonna put myself at a disadvantage just to be a nice guy. But I definitely understand why some or most people don't like them :)
    Vox-ir - AR 43 - Flawless Conqueror - vAS+2 - vHoF - vMoL - Worm Wizard - Blackmarrow Necromancer - Amberplasm - Spiderkith - Master Angler

    PC EU AD

    1000+cp
  • Ahzek
    Ahzek
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    dpencil1 wrote: »
    I seriously had to LOL that the first build you choose to highlight is a Tremorscale/Viper build.

    (Working as intended)

    This is funny to me as well.
    Jo'Khaljor the bestest stam sorc (out of all 3) architect EU

  • templesus
    templesus
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    Exited as soon as I saw viper tremor, no skill required. Maybe pick a build that utilizes player skill to execute it?
  • Voxicity
    Voxicity
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    TLDR, after seeing Tremorscale and Viper -- the only sets players use in Battlegrounds... AKA, no-skill RNG-based DPS.
    Nerf proc sets. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler
    #MakeESOPvPGreatAgain

    Agreed, proc sets need a heavy nerf. But do you actually have any idea what you're talking about? What does RNG-based DPS even mean in this context? Tremor has a 50% proc chance so chances are it's going to proc very frequently when using ransack a couple of times and viper is a 100% chance every 4 seconds. I just don't understand what you mean by RNG-based dps. Plus the fact that they don't crit would actually make them less RNG wouldn't it?
    Edited by Voxicity on June 15, 2017 12:47AM
    Vox-ir - AR 43 - Flawless Conqueror - vAS+2 - vHoF - vMoL - Worm Wizard - Blackmarrow Necromancer - Amberplasm - Spiderkith - Master Angler

    PC EU AD

    1000+cp
  • Darkmage1337
    Darkmage1337
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    Voxicity wrote: »
    TLDR, after seeing Tremorscale and Viper -- the only sets players use in Battlegrounds... AKA, no-skill RNG-based DPS.
    Nerf proc sets. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler
    #MakeESOPvPGreatAgain

    Agreed, proc sets need a heavy nerf. But do you actually have any idea what you're talking about? What does RNG-based DPS even mean in this context? Tremor has a 50% proc chance so chances are it's going to proc very frequently when using ransack a couple of times and viper is a 100% chance every 4 seconds. I just don't understand what you mean by RNG-based dps. Plus the fact that they don't crit would actually make them less RNG wouldn't it?

    It means that instead of relying on real, actual, usable abilities that you slot on your ability bar and click to use (e.g. class and weapon abilities), players (especially PvPers) are forced to rely on damage coming from these proc sets, instead of an actual real ability. Which takes skill in using and timing, especially with the game-mechanic of being able to only use one ability per second, proc-chances will always have a distinct advantage over other gameplay actions and means.
    Relying on 50% chance for that, 100% chance for this, 10% here, etc, is skill-less and fake damage. Get gud.
    ZOS shouldn't be promoting this kind of play style. It sickens me that the current meta of PvP is based entirely on proc'ing Viper and Tremorscale builds. It doesn't matter that they don't crit. The proc-rates should be nerfed to half, or more, of what they are now. Myself and everyone that I talk to are tired of seeing only Viper's poison sting and Tremorscale in their death recaps. I've seen multiple players in battlegrounds literally just spamming taunt (Ransack) to use Tremorscale as their only form of damage and playstyle. That should tell you something.
    It's aggravating when you see this constantly as the only form of play and no diversity in builds. Fake damage.
    Edited by Darkmage1337 on June 15, 2017 10:21PM
    GM of Absolute Virtue.
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  • Voxicity
    Voxicity
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    Voxicity wrote: »
    TLDR, after seeing Tremorscale and Viper -- the only sets players use in Battlegrounds... AKA, no-skill RNG-based DPS.
    Nerf proc sets. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler
    #MakeESOPvPGreatAgain

    Agreed, proc sets need a heavy nerf. But do you actually have any idea what you're talking about? What does RNG-based DPS even mean in this context? Tremor has a 50% proc chance so chances are it's going to proc very frequently when using ransack a couple of times and viper is a 100% chance every 4 seconds. I just don't understand what you mean by RNG-based dps. Plus the fact that they don't crit would actually make them less RNG wouldn't it?

    It means that instead of relying on real, actual, usable abilities that you slot on your ability bar and click to use (e.g. class and weapon abilities), players (especially PvPers) are forced to rely on damage coming from these proc sets, instead of an actual real ability. Which takes skill in using and timing, especially with the game-mechanic of being able to only use one ability per second, proc-chances will always have a distinct advantage over other gameplay actions and means.
    Relying on 50% chance for that, 100% chance for this, 10% here, etc, is skill-less and fake damage. Get gud.
    ZOS shouldn't be promoting this kind of play style. It sickens me that the current meta of PvP is based entirely on proc'ing Viper and Tremorscale builds. It doesn't matter that they don't crit. They proc-rates should be nerfed to half, or more, of what they are now. I'm tired of seeing Viper's poison sting and Tremorscale in death recaps. I've seen multiple players in battlegrounds literally just spamming taunt (Ransack) to use Tremorscale as their only form of damage and playstyle.
    It's aggravating when you see this constantly as the only form of play and no diversity in builds. Fake damage.

    I agree and everything you have said is true but I still don't understand your use of the term 'RNG' damage in relation to viper + tremorscale setup. 50% proc chance can hardly be classed as RNG.
    Edited by Voxicity on June 15, 2017 12:52PM
    Vox-ir - AR 43 - Flawless Conqueror - vAS+2 - vHoF - vMoL - Worm Wizard - Blackmarrow Necromancer - Amberplasm - Spiderkith - Master Angler

    PC EU AD

    1000+cp
  • Voxicity
    Voxicity
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    Voxicity wrote: »
    TLDR, after seeing Tremorscale and Viper -- the only sets players use in Battlegrounds... AKA, no-skill RNG-based DPS.
    Nerf proc sets. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler
    #MakeESOPvPGreatAgain

    Agreed, proc sets need a heavy nerf. But do you actually have any idea what you're talking about? What does RNG-based DPS even mean in this context? Tremor has a 50% proc chance so chances are it's going to proc very frequently when using ransack a couple of times and viper is a 100% chance every 4 seconds. I just don't understand what you mean by RNG-based dps. Plus the fact that they don't crit would actually make them less RNG wouldn't it?

    Procsets are really anoying in no-CP. In CP Campaigns procsets aren´t that big of an issue IMO.

    The awkward moment when CP-Campaigns feels more balanced than no-CP after Morrowind xD

    Fair enough. I don't play non-cp and haven't had much luck getting into battlegrounds so I was unaware that proc sets are that big of a problem in non-cp. I made this setup with CP in mind and after testing in cp environment I found that it is effective, but not as strong as other setups. Thanks for actually explaining why they are a problem in non cp and not just screaming about it :D
    Edited by Voxicity on June 15, 2017 1:29PM
    Vox-ir - AR 43 - Flawless Conqueror - vAS+2 - vHoF - vMoL - Worm Wizard - Blackmarrow Necromancer - Amberplasm - Spiderkith - Master Angler

    PC EU AD

    1000+cp
  • Darlgon
    Darlgon
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    Voxicity wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Voxicity wrote: »
    TLDR, after seeing Tremorscale and Viper -- the only sets players use in Battlegrounds... AKA, no-skill RNG-based DPS.
    Nerf proc sets. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler
    #MakeESOPvPGreatAgain

    Agreed, proc sets need a heavy nerf. But do you actually have any idea what you're talking about? What does RNG-based DPS even mean in this context? Tremor has a 50% proc chance so chances are it's going to proc very frequently when using ransack a couple of times and viper is a 100% chance every 4 seconds. I just don't understand what you mean by RNG-based dps. Plus the fact that they don't crit would actually make them less RNG wouldn't it?

    Procsets are really anoying in no-CP. In CP Campaigns procsets aren´t that big of an issue IMO.

    The awkward moment when CP-Campaigns feels more balanced than no-CP after Morrowind xD

    Fair enough. I don't play non-cp and haven't had much luck getting into battlegrounds so I was unaware that proc sets are that big of a problem in non-cp. I made this build with CP in mind and after testing in cp environment I found that it is effective, but not as strong as other setups. Thanks for actually explaining why they are a problem in non cp and not just screaming about it :D

    You really dont have to defend your build btw. Zenimax choose it as the best. Its just attracting attention because they picked it as the best, highlighting features players have been saying are too good to be in game.. Zenimax is saying, instead.. "This is how we want you to play."
    Power level to CP160 in a week:
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    Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
    Where is new content? Sigh.
  • Voxicity
    Voxicity
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    Darlgon wrote: »
    Voxicity wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Voxicity wrote: »
    TLDR, after seeing Tremorscale and Viper -- the only sets players use in Battlegrounds... AKA, no-skill RNG-based DPS.
    Nerf proc sets. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler
    #MakeESOPvPGreatAgain

    Agreed, proc sets need a heavy nerf. But do you actually have any idea what you're talking about? What does RNG-based DPS even mean in this context? Tremor has a 50% proc chance so chances are it's going to proc very frequently when using ransack a couple of times and viper is a 100% chance every 4 seconds. I just don't understand what you mean by RNG-based dps. Plus the fact that they don't crit would actually make them less RNG wouldn't it?

    Procsets are really anoying in no-CP. In CP Campaigns procsets aren´t that big of an issue IMO.

    The awkward moment when CP-Campaigns feels more balanced than no-CP after Morrowind xD

    Fair enough. I don't play non-cp and haven't had much luck getting into battlegrounds so I was unaware that proc sets are that big of a problem in non-cp. I made this build with CP in mind and after testing in cp environment I found that it is effective, but not as strong as other setups. Thanks for actually explaining why they are a problem in non cp and not just screaming about it :D

    You really dont have to defend your build btw. Zenimax choose it as the best. Its just attracting attention because they picked it as the best, highlighting features players have been saying are too good to be in game.. Zenimax is saying, instead.. "This is how we want you to play."

    I'm not really defending it and I wouldn't really consider it 'my build', just a showcase of a possible setup to run. I personally don't run this on my stamward as the lack of survivability isn't great in CP PvP, but for a beginner who just wants to run around killing people and dying a lot themselves it's pretty fun :)
    Edited by Voxicity on June 15, 2017 1:28PM
    Vox-ir - AR 43 - Flawless Conqueror - vAS+2 - vHoF - vMoL - Worm Wizard - Blackmarrow Necromancer - Amberplasm - Spiderkith - Master Angler

    PC EU AD

    1000+cp
  • br0steen
    br0steen
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    This isnt a new build, lots of people have been using tremorscale and viper. And in case you were unaware for some bizarre reason @ZOS_GinaBruno lots has been said about the imbalance of proc sets, specifically this combo. It goes back to... When was it... Oh yea, when tremorscale was first introduced aka since the beginning.

    I find it hilarious that this is what gets chosen. It's like a big middle finger to the community. I personally don't have a huge problem with proc sets, but most of the community seems to.

    Very interesting choice for whoever was in charge of choosing what ultimately gets put into battlemasters corner.
  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
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    Like @Voxicity i find it odd but i also find it amusing how often the RNG is used as a perjorative when Viper and other high yield proc sets are in play.

    let see... what was the best quote?

    @Darkmage1337 said "Relying on 50% chance for that, 100% chance for this, 10% here, etc, is skill-less and fake damage."

    So lets see...

    Relying on 50%: You mean a chance akin to where in-game critical chances tend to get near? Almost everything can crit - including heals - except proc sets. Tremorscale has a 50% proc chance only if you taunt and you get base 7k ish before half that gets spirited away if in pvp. i have seen plenty of crits deal an extra 7k+ damage with no cooldowns. (Depends on enemies, cp, etc)

    Replying on 100% - like hey almost every click-hit ability in the game "relies on 100%" so hoiw is it badn RNg for Viper to do that with a cooldown? many 100% abilities are not limited to every 4s, only at melee range etc like Viper is.

    of course, NMG has a defense debuff that only happens on a crit - is that a random proc set bad evil no skill or not? is the extra damage done by anyone attacking that target after the crit proc also "fake damage"?

    keeps coming back to the one great evil/sin of these sets - they list their damage separate on the recaps, while others (the good sets) hide the extra damage they cause inside the 100% "skill" abilities recaps.


    "Relying on 100%" will be a classic, i am sure.






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  • Anne_Firehawk
    Anne_Firehawk
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    Nice Tumor :^) ... First build you guys chose is a procctard.
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  • Voxicity
    Voxicity
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    Nice Tumor :^) ... First build you guys chose is a procctard.

    Blah blah blah
    Vox-ir - AR 43 - Flawless Conqueror - vAS+2 - vHoF - vMoL - Worm Wizard - Blackmarrow Necromancer - Amberplasm - Spiderkith - Master Angler

    PC EU AD

    1000+cp
  • Voxicity
    Voxicity
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    STEVIL wrote: »
    Like @Voxicity i find it odd but i also find it amusing how often the RNG is used as a perjorative when Viper and other high yield proc sets are in play.

    let see... what was the best quote?

    @Darkmage1337 said "Relying on 50% chance for that, 100% chance for this, 10% here, etc, is skill-less and fake damage."

    So lets see...

    Relying on 50%: You mean a chance akin to where in-game critical chances tend to get near? Almost everything can crit - including heals - except proc sets. Tremorscale has a 50% proc chance only if you taunt and you get base 7k ish before half that gets spirited away if in pvp. i have seen plenty of crits deal an extra 7k+ damage with no cooldowns. (Depends on enemies, cp, etc)

    Replying on 100% - like hey almost every click-hit ability in the game "relies on 100%" so hoiw is it badn RNg for Viper to do that with a cooldown? many 100% abilities are not limited to every 4s, only at melee range etc like Viper is.

    of course, NMG has a defense debuff that only happens on a crit - is that a random proc set bad evil no skill or not? is the extra damage done by anyone attacking that target after the crit proc also "fake damage"?

    keeps coming back to the one great evil/sin of these sets - they list their damage separate on the recaps, while others (the good sets) hide the extra damage they cause inside the 100% "skill" abilities recaps.


    "Relying on 100%" will be a classic, i am sure.






    Yep that's absolutely true. It's like if I was running Clever Alchemist + Heem Jas 25% major beserk and I hit someone for a 13k incap, they would scream "NIGHTBLADES OP!!" since all they see in their recap is a really high hitting incap, not a tremorscale or viper etc.
    Vox-ir - AR 43 - Flawless Conqueror - vAS+2 - vHoF - vMoL - Worm Wizard - Blackmarrow Necromancer - Amberplasm - Spiderkith - Master Angler

    PC EU AD

    1000+cp
  • Alpha-Lupi
    Alpha-Lupi
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    I wonder when Zenimax are gonna fix the Subterranean assault so that instead of stirring shalks that deal poison damage, it would stir assassin beetles that deal poison damage, two reasons:

    1: Shalks use fire (Understandable for scorch & its morph "Eruption")

    2: Assassin beetles Cause poison damage & can make subterranean assault more "Lore friendly" so that it actually ties well into the Game & makes sense.
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    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/382198/were-warden-build-changelog-thread/p1

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  • br0steen
    br0steen
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    Voxicity wrote: »
    STEVIL wrote: »
    Like @Voxicity i find it odd but i also find it amusing how often the RNG is used as a perjorative when Viper and other high yield proc sets are in play.

    let see... what was the best quote?

    @Darkmage1337 said "Relying on 50% chance for that, 100% chance for this, 10% here, etc, is skill-less and fake damage."

    So lets see...

    Relying on 50%: You mean a chance akin to where in-game critical chances tend to get near? Almost everything can crit - including heals - except proc sets. Tremorscale has a 50% proc chance only if you taunt and you get base 7k ish before half that gets spirited away if in pvp. i have seen plenty of crits deal an extra 7k+ damage with no cooldowns. (Depends on enemies, cp, etc)

    Replying on 100% - like hey almost every click-hit ability in the game "relies on 100%" so hoiw is it badn RNg for Viper to do that with a cooldown? many 100% abilities are not limited to every 4s, only at melee range etc like Viper is.

    of course, NMG has a defense debuff that only happens on a crit - is that a random proc set bad evil no skill or not? is the extra damage done by anyone attacking that target after the crit proc also "fake damage"?

    keeps coming back to the one great evil/sin of these sets - they list their damage separate on the recaps, while others (the good sets) hide the extra damage they cause inside the 100% "skill" abilities recaps.


    "Relying on 100%" will be a classic, i am sure.






    Yep that's absolutely true. It's like if I was running Clever Alchemist + Heem Jas 25% major beserk and I hit someone for a 13k incap, they would scream "NIGHTBLADES OP!!" since all they see in their recap is a really high hitting incap, not a tremorscale or viper etc.

    So why is nobody using that if it's the same as using proc sets?
  • Voxicity
    Voxicity
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    br0steen wrote: »
    Voxicity wrote: »
    STEVIL wrote: »
    Like @Voxicity i find it odd but i also find it amusing how often the RNG is used as a perjorative when Viper and other high yield proc sets are in play.

    let see... what was the best quote?

    @Darkmage1337 said "Relying on 50% chance for that, 100% chance for this, 10% here, etc, is skill-less and fake damage."

    So lets see...

    Relying on 50%: You mean a chance akin to where in-game critical chances tend to get near? Almost everything can crit - including heals - except proc sets. Tremorscale has a 50% proc chance only if you taunt and you get base 7k ish before half that gets spirited away if in pvp. i have seen plenty of crits deal an extra 7k+ damage with no cooldowns. (Depends on enemies, cp, etc)

    Replying on 100% - like hey almost every click-hit ability in the game "relies on 100%" so hoiw is it badn RNg for Viper to do that with a cooldown? many 100% abilities are not limited to every 4s, only at melee range etc like Viper is.

    of course, NMG has a defense debuff that only happens on a crit - is that a random proc set bad evil no skill or not? is the extra damage done by anyone attacking that target after the crit proc also "fake damage"?

    keeps coming back to the one great evil/sin of these sets - they list their damage separate on the recaps, while others (the good sets) hide the extra damage they cause inside the 100% "skill" abilities recaps.


    "Relying on 100%" will be a classic, i am sure.






    Yep that's absolutely true. It's like if I was running Clever Alchemist + Heem Jas 25% major beserk and I hit someone for a 13k incap, they would scream "NIGHTBLADES OP!!" since all they see in their recap is a really high hitting incap, not a tremorscale or viper etc.

    So why is nobody using that if it's the same as using proc sets?

    It's not the same as using proc sets and I never implied it was.

    The reason not many people use Heem Jas (although I do, because I like to run off-meta setups every so often) is because the 3 second timer is short and requires you to get to your next target and get an incap or surprise attack off on them which is pretty hard to pull off. It's quite effective if you can play fast, but since no one has made a build video on it with any kind of attention, no one uses it or even considers it. Just like the magsorc red mountain meta that's just come out. The set has been in the game for probably over a year but was still a pretty niche setup until Blobs recently made a video about it and now prices for red mountain are going up because people are starting to run it (including myself) - check tamriel trade centre or MM the prices and you'll see

    Anyway I used the clever alch + heem jas as an example because if you pull it off right you can achieve some insanely high incap hits, of which no one would even think about blaming the sets and would rather just scream about how OP nightblades are as a class, because there is nothing on their death recap saying ''Heem Jas'' or ''Clever alchemist made this incap hit really hard'' etc.

    Humans love to complain and blame, the fact that proc sets come up on your death recap or combat log just makes them an easy scapegoat whereas actual decent sets (like clever alchemist) are safely out of sight so don't get a mention when it comes to OP sets. :)

    @br0steen
    Edited by Voxicity on June 17, 2017 2:24PM
    Vox-ir - AR 43 - Flawless Conqueror - vAS+2 - vHoF - vMoL - Worm Wizard - Blackmarrow Necromancer - Amberplasm - Spiderkith - Master Angler

    PC EU AD

    1000+cp
  • templesus
    templesus
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    lol @Voxicity are you really comparing clever alchemist to proc sets? Please. Clever alchemist takes skill to pull of due to the fact that you only have burst for 15 seconds and as such you have to effectively time your burst during that interval. Proc sets just keep on proccing of their minuscule cooldown without the user having to time anything whatsoever. If anyone sits here and tries to defend proc sets I am just going to give you a heads up the PvP community(those who are actually good at it) are going to write you off as a lower tiered player. No hard feelings just facts.
  • Darkmage1337
    Darkmage1337
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    Voxicity wrote: »
    br0steen wrote: »
    Voxicity wrote: »
    STEVIL wrote: »
    Like @Voxicity i find it odd but i also find it amusing how often the RNG is used as a perjorative when Viper and other high yield proc sets are in play.

    let see... what was the best quote?

    @Darkmage1337 said "Relying on 50% chance for that, 100% chance for this, 10% here, etc, is skill-less and fake damage."

    So lets see...

    Relying on 50%: You mean a chance akin to where in-game critical chances tend to get near? Almost everything can crit - including heals - except proc sets. Tremorscale has a 50% proc chance only if you taunt and you get base 7k ish before half that gets spirited away if in pvp. i have seen plenty of crits deal an extra 7k+ damage with no cooldowns. (Depends on enemies, cp, etc)

    Replying on 100% - like hey almost every click-hit ability in the game "relies on 100%" so hoiw is it badn RNg for Viper to do that with a cooldown? many 100% abilities are not limited to every 4s, only at melee range etc like Viper is.

    of course, NMG has a defense debuff that only happens on a crit - is that a random proc set bad evil no skill or not? is the extra damage done by anyone attacking that target after the crit proc also "fake damage"?

    keeps coming back to the one great evil/sin of these sets - they list their damage separate on the recaps, while others (the good sets) hide the extra damage they cause inside the 100% "skill" abilities recaps.


    "Relying on 100%" will be a classic, i am sure.






    Yep that's absolutely true. It's like if I was running Clever Alchemist + Heem Jas 25% major beserk and I hit someone for a 13k incap, they would scream "NIGHTBLADES OP!!" since all they see in their recap is a really high hitting incap, not a tremorscale or viper etc.

    So why is nobody using that if it's the same as using proc sets?

    It's not the same as using proc sets and I never implied it was.

    The reason not many people use Heem Jas (although I do, because I like to run off-meta setups every so often) is because the 3 second timer is short and requires you to get to your next target and get an incap or surprise attack off on them which is pretty hard to pull off. It's quite effective if you can play fast, but since no one has made a build video on it with any kind of attention, no one uses it or even considers it. Just like the magsorc red mountain meta that's just come out. The set has been in the game for probably over a year but was still a pretty niche setup until Blobs recently made a video about it and now prices for red mountain are going up because people are starting to run it (including myself) - check tamriel trade centre or MM the prices and you'll see

    Anyway I used the clever alch + heem jas as an example because if you pull it off right you can achieve some insanely high incap hits, of which no one would even think about blaming the sets and would rather just scream about how OP nightblades are as a class, because there is nothing on their death recap saying ''Heem Jas'' or ''Clever alchemist made this incap hit really hard'' etc.

    Humans love to complain and blame, the fact that proc sets come up on your death recap or combat log just makes them an easy scapegoat whereas actual decent sets (like clever alchemist) are safely out of sight so don't get a mention when it comes to OP sets. :)

    @br0steen

    @Voxicity - You clearly continue to miss the main idea and instead argue towards sub-points and footnotes. The aforementioned proc sets are far stronger and more efficient than any other 2/2, 3/3 and 5/5 sets out there. Your talk of "hidden damage bonuses" and "set bonus damage within ability recaps" does not even come close to doing the amount of extra damage that proc sets do on their own; and, damage from said proc sets are far more consistent compared to any other build. That's why EVERYONE uses them. They're too strong, and they don't take skill. One of two things needs to happen: buff other ignored and unused sets to be as good or stronger than proc sets; or, nerf proc sets altogether.
    ZOS should increase the cooldown times of proc sets by double, at the very least. Or, lower their damage amounts by half.
    This may put their damage output equal to that of other sets, especially bursty-builds like with the case of Clever Alchemist, which I used to use along with 2/2 Molag Kena and 3/3 willpower jewelry with spell damage enchants. That build's damage output still does not compare to proc-set spamming plebs. Not even close, lol.

    templesus wrote: »
    lol @Voxicity are you really comparing clever alchemist to proc sets? Please. Clever alchemist takes skill to pull of due to the fact that you only have burst for 15 seconds and as such you have to effectively time your burst during that interval. Proc sets just keep on proccing of their minuscule cooldown without the user having to time anything whatsoever. If anyone sits here and tries to defend proc sets I am just going to give you a heads up the PvP community(those who are actually good at it) are going to write you off as a lower tiered player. No hard feelings just facts.

    I completely agree.
    Edited by Darkmage1337 on June 18, 2017 10:17PM
    GM of Absolute Virtue.
    co-GM of Absolute Vice.
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  • Voxicity
    Voxicity
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    templesus wrote: »
    lol @Voxicity are you really comparing clever alchemist to proc sets? Please. Clever alchemist takes skill to pull of due to the fact that you only have burst for 15 seconds and as such you have to effectively time your burst during that interval. Proc sets just keep on proccing of their minuscule cooldown without the user having to time anything whatsoever. If anyone sits here and tries to defend proc sets I am just going to give you a heads up the PvP community(those who are actually good at it) are going to write you off as a lower tiered player. No hard feelings just facts.

    I was using the set as an example. Hundings could also be used as an example as it gives weapon damage therefore increasing the damage of your class or weapon abilities. This increase in damage will be added onto the damage of your skills and is therefore not as obvious of a bonus than what proc sets offer. Proc sets will be listed in the death recap whereas nothing in the death recap says anything about you using hundings, julianos, whatever.

    I also don't care whatsoever about the 'PvP community'. This game cannot and will not ever be competitive because of the sheer imbalance of PvP therefore I have no care for what a member of the 'PvP community' would say to me. I play casually and I'm a decent player but that doesn't mean I'm not going to use proc sets every so often. I don't usually use them but if they're in the game and it makes me OP as heck without having to do anything, why not ;) It's a game afterall. I don't care if the PvP tryhard community gets wound up that they exist, I'm having fun using them from time to time

    (I am aware they are 'OP' or 'imbalanced' by the way, just in case you thought I was defending them. They are poorly designed and indeed require less skill. What I am defending is the right to use them. And I also don't agree with the fact that everyone screams and cries about proc sets just because they saw it in their death recap whereas other sets are hidden :) )
    Edited by Voxicity on June 18, 2017 10:35PM
    Vox-ir - AR 43 - Flawless Conqueror - vAS+2 - vHoF - vMoL - Worm Wizard - Blackmarrow Necromancer - Amberplasm - Spiderkith - Master Angler

    PC EU AD

    1000+cp
  • Voxicity
    Voxicity
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Voxicity - You clearly continue to miss the main idea and instead argue towards sub-points and footnotes. The aforementioned proc sets are far stronger and more efficient than any other 2/2, 3/3 and 5/5 sets out there. Your talk of "hidden damage bonuses" and "set bonus damage within ability recaps" does not even come close to doing the amount of extra damage that proc sets do on their own; and, damage from said proc sets are far more consistent compared to any other build. That's why EVERYONE uses them. They're too strong, and they don't take skill. One of two things needs to happen: buff other ignored and unused sets to be as good or stronger than proc sets; or, nerf proc sets altogether.
    ZOS should increase the cooldown times of proc sets by double, at the very least. Or, lower their damage amounts by half.
    This may put their damage output equal to that of other sets, especially bursty-builds like with the case of Clever Alchemist, which I used to use along with 2/2 Molag Kena and 3/3 willpower jewelry with spell damage enchants. That build's damage output still does not compare to proc-set spamming plebs. Not even close, lol.

    Thanks for your comment. I completely disagree with absolutely every single one of them but thank you anyway :)
    Vox-ir - AR 43 - Flawless Conqueror - vAS+2 - vHoF - vMoL - Worm Wizard - Blackmarrow Necromancer - Amberplasm - Spiderkith - Master Angler

    PC EU AD

    1000+cp
  • br0steen
    br0steen
    ✭✭✭✭
    Voxicity wrote: »
    (I am aware they are 'OP' or 'imbalanced' by the way, just in case you thought I was defending them. They are poorly designed and indeed require less skill. What I am defending is the right to use them. And I also don't agree with the fact that everyone screams and cries about proc sets just because they saw it in their death recap whereas other sets are hidden :) )



    @Voxicity
    Sorry, I thought you were saying proc sets are no different than other sets that will boost damage output at all.

    I agree, people will always complain more about what they see most often in their death recaps. However as you said they require less skill which for once, complaints on the forums about what they see on their death recap is somewhat justified with that reasoning. (I still remember when steel tornado was "broken" lol)

    I also agree that everyone has the right to use them. In fact, I'm kind of glad they are in the game, although its clear the community isn't and are not being listened by to by zos, which was my original point. It's nice to know who lacks confidence in their ability to succeed through their skill, and feels it necessary to use proc sets. On xbox they tend to be those who enjoy xv1ing and tbagging to show their dominance.
    Edited by br0steen on June 19, 2017 4:03AM
  • Voxicity
    Voxicity
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    br0steen wrote: »
    Voxicity wrote: »
    (I am aware they are 'OP' or 'imbalanced' by the way, just in case you thought I was defending them. They are poorly designed and indeed require less skill. What I am defending is the right to use them. And I also don't agree with the fact that everyone screams and cries about proc sets just because they saw it in their death recap whereas other sets are hidden :) )



    @Voxicity
    Sorry, I thought you were saying proc sets are no different than other sets that will boost damage output at all.

    I agree, people will always complain more about what they see most often in their death recaps. However as you said they require less skill which for once, complaints on the forums about what they see on their death recap is somewhat justified with that reasoning. (I still remember when steel tornado was "broken" lol)

    I also agree that everyone has the right to use them. In fact, I'm kind of glad they are in the game, although its clear the community isn't and are not being listened by to by zos, which was my original point. It's nice to know who lacks confidence in their ability to succeed through their skill, and feels it necessary to use proc sets. On xbox they tend to be those who enjoy xv1ing and tbagging to show their dominance.

    Honestly I don't really know if they require less skill than simply wearing certain gear sets that increase the damage of your abilities. If I got hit with a 14k incap from someone running hundings or gear that increases the damage of their raw abilities, then got hit with a 11k incap and a 2.5k viper, I wouldn't consider either of them more skilled or easier to run because at the end of the day in both cases the player is simply pressing 1 button.

    I think people have to be mindful that there are so many different kinds of player in this game. People who are really good and skilled who refuse to use proc sets, people who are really bad at the game and have to rely on proc sets to be competitive. But there are also those in between (of which I would consider myself) who are maybe average players but sometimes run proc sets too because they don't take the game too seriously and just want to enjoy it in their own way. What I don't agree with is the "You use proc sets, you are a low tiered player" kinda stuff. I don't think it's quite as black and white as that. There are many skilled players who I've fought against who run viper or widowmaker etc and it makes them even stronger. There are also players I've fought against who use proc sets and are literally complete trash and barely even know how to CC break. It's just a great scapegoat I guess.
    Vox-ir - AR 43 - Flawless Conqueror - vAS+2 - vHoF - vMoL - Worm Wizard - Blackmarrow Necromancer - Amberplasm - Spiderkith - Master Angler

    PC EU AD

    1000+cp
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