Realistic Sneak

GeorgeBlack

PvE: works as it currently does.
PvP sneak hides: names, ally icons, healthbars, pets, bright animations such as flames lightning lights etc.
No more invisible hidden enemies while they sneak.
Better scouting (maybe even we will see garrisons at keeps? More organized ganging? Less zergballs?

I'm asking for ZOS to change sneak from total invisibility to a system in which sneak makes players shadowy figures, which during Sneak don't display: pets healthbars, nameplates, Icons etc.
Shadowy figures which when near rocks trees and other objects might be difficult to spot.

Shadowy figures that are visible if they stand in random locations which don't obstruct vision.

I ask zos to remove invisibility by sneaking.


It is obvious that this ain't how Zos designed sneak.

Are there any good reasons not to change the sneak system?

Btw I am aware that lots of things in ESO require the attention of developers, but the topic I opened is not about which of the current problems need to be addressed. It's about a possible Realistic Sneak system.

This system will have nothing to do with detection potions and skills or Invisibility Potions and Nightblade skills.
Detection skills and sets will have nothing to do with Realistic Sneak. They can be used against NBs, invisible pot users or PvE. Or the can become items and skills that people no longer feel the need to use that much, like many other features of the game.

Go hide in the trees if you want to ambush me, ganger.

Avran_Sylt

yes

Yeah, but then introduce either a classless invisibility skill or chameleon type skill (causes player character to become more transparent, but to a greater effect than major evasion and doesn't break LOS (so it can't be used as an ability dodge))

Iccotak

idk, honestly don't play PvP cause I don't have a good build for it.

But I do hope that some of the sneaking mechanics are introduced in TES 6. Like hiding in baskets or barrels when guards are close by.

Avran_Sylt

yes

Hmmmmm. Here's my updated opinion on this topic:

sneak still provides invisibility

The frontal sneak detection for players should be dramatically increased (like a whopping 100m). The rear sneak detection should be axed significantly in comparison (10-15m), but should be larger than before.

Remove the sneak radius bonus from medium armor.

Well-fitted will now additionally reduce rear sneak radius detection by [x] meters (against other players).

Sets that reduce sneak radius will now function similarly to the rear sneak detection.

Nightblade cloak works normally (invisibility is part of ESO after all)

Add in a classless chameleon skill, which reduces frontal sneak detection by a large % when used (against NPC entities), hides the player tag and alliance tag to enemies, and causes the player model to become largely transparent. This effect will become broken if you take any offensive action. Spell damage will increase the duration of this ability.

Edit: also allow the camouflaged hunter skill to apply chameleon passively while in stealth. however this version would allow offensive action to be performed while still maintaining chameleon.

Drdeath20

Sneak is fine but the skills used for detection need work. You almost gotta be right on top of the stealthed player even when using a detection skill.

GeorgeBlack

yes

bump

TheShadowScout

no

The "invisibility" on sneak simulates your -character- not notiving the technically not invisible enemy crouching in the tall grass.
I am fine with it.
Not like there aren't more then enough options for players to frustrate those trying to sneak up on them...

Although, a "perception" world skill line where people can put in points for more detection range... and then a "camoflage" skill line where people can get improved stealth to counter... might be an interesting idea... more horizontal progression, more character diversity, give them many, many more lines to spend skill points in, so many that they have to pick and chgoose if they want the extra alertness, or that extra thievery for example...

GeorgeBlack

yes

TheShadowScout wrote: »

The "invisibility" on sneak simulates your -character- not notiving the technically not invisible enemy crouching in the tall grass.
I am fine with it.
Not like there aren't more then enough options for players to frustrate those trying to sneak up on them...

Although, a "perception" world skill line where people can put in points for more detection range... and then a "camoflage" skill line where people can get improved stealth to counter... might be an interesting idea... more horizontal progression, more character diversity, give them many, many more lines to spend skill points in, so many that they have to pick and chgoose if they want the extra alertness, or that extra thievery for example...

Nope. You just want it ez mode.
Ninjas wannabe, but they can't do it right.

altemriel

no

leave it as it is now

idk

no

There are aspects that affect how well someone can sneak. Medium Armor passives and racial passives that reduce area of detection. Further, it is very much a TES thing so it is not going to leave the game.

Calling it EZ mode is merely something someone who has issues with it would say as an EZ answer.

GeorgeBlack

yes

@altemriel
@Giles.floydub17_ESO
Lame.

How so not innovative. If you were Zenimax emplyoees I'd look for more creative ppl than you. Too scared of ambitious projects. Too lazy to fathom it.

Good thing gaming developers don't think like you otherwise we'd be playing on Atari now.
Same people posting "outrageous" demands for change.

Same boring people answering "No. It's a TES thing. Leave it as it is."
Sheep mentality.

Realistic sneak has been communicated in more platforms than this forum.

"Nope. Nope. How about no?" Hahaha. Boring

Strong votes in an environment of "No leave it as it is". Fun people move forward. The rest are being left out. Realistic sneak is coming. Go hide behind those rocks if you want to ambush me.

"Nope leave it as it is. I don't like change. Can't do it. Besides it's a TES thing. You can't change the dogma."

idk

no

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@altemriel
@Giles.floydub17_ESO
Lame.

How so not innovative. If you were Zenimax emplyoees I'd look for more creative ppl than you. Too scared of ambitious projects. Too lazy to fathom it.

Good thing gaming developers don't think like you otherwise we'd be playing on Atari now.
Same people posting "outrageous" demands for change.

Same boring people answering "No. It's a TES thing. Leave it as it is."
Sheep mentality.

Realistic sneak has been communicated in more platforms than this forum.

"Nope. Nope. How about no?" Hahaha. Boring

Strong votes in an environment of "No leave it as it is". Fun people move forward. The rest are being left out. Realistic sneak is coming. Go hide behind those rocks if you want to ambush me.

"Nope leave it as it is. I don't like change. Can't do it. Besides it's a TES thing. You can't change the dogma."

Not a lot of people saying change it so saying "same boring people" is kinda lame. Calling it sheep mentality is kinda lame

You are offering your opinion yet belittling ours. Kinda lame

If your going to start a thread like this, that required you bumping it because it died previously, you better have some damn good argument other than some other game or sheep mentality. Especially if your best argument is to belittle those that disagree with you.

EDIT: BTW, the game developers seemed to have thought sneak, as it works in ESO, was good for the game and it this game is not on Atari. BTW, this is not DOTA or LOL.

Personally, I think it is a great idea that we have more than one class that can sneak vs how some other major MMOs have made it.

max_only

no

Every character can crouch, can wear sneaking sets, use vampire skill and invis pots. Seems like this thread is a L2sneak opportunity.

dsalter

i like sneak my only gripe is that pretty much anyone can sneak well.
they need to nerf how good stealth is for anyone not using the right sneak buffing sets+passives(medium+racials) as sneak is INCREDIBLY strong at what it does and works for pretty much anyone

Zalicius

yes

I have to say, sneak is pretty stupid even in PVE. You can be sighted by an enemy, but can still jump in a basket to avoid them. I mean you will still get a gold penalty, although you can avoid confrontation by repeatedly trying to jump in a basket. It's pretty silly.

idk

no

Zalicius wrote: »

I have to say, sneak is pretty stupid even in PVE. You can be sighted by an enemy, but can still jump in a basket to avoid them. I mean you will still get a gold penalty, although you can avoid confrontation by repeatedly trying to jump in a basket. It's pretty silly.

The baskets are only TG and DB areas and unrelated to what OP is complaining about.

Zalicius

yes

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Zalicius wrote: »

I have to say, sneak is pretty stupid even in PVE. You can be sighted by an enemy, but can still jump in a basket to avoid them. I mean you will still get a gold penalty, although you can avoid confrontation by repeatedly trying to jump in a basket. It's pretty silly.

The baskets are only TG and DB areas and unrelated to what OP is complaining about.

Oh, really? Well, thank you for clearing absolutely nothing up. :P

TheShadowScout

no

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Nope. You just want it ez mode.
Ninjas wannabe, but they can't do it right.

Sez the one who wants to practically eliminate stealth from PvP.
Yeah... riiight.

I for one would totally like some stealth tweaks, like time of the day, ambient light sources and available cover adding into detection chance... (possibly even gear color, though I guess that would be a bit harder to code - though doable, just assign some modifier to colors, some which are drab and "stealthy" others which are bright/metallic and thus "flashy")
...perhaps even some additional effects, like consumable disguise items like shrubbery coverings, camo poncho, cloak of elvenkind, or whatever crafty Larissa used for her fern trick... that are bought and lost when spotted, but give a good boost to stealth while active... and then reduce basic stealth chance to compensate that the sneaky sneaks need such sneaky tricks to keep up the current sneakyness...

But just letting every player spot every stealther like you suggest??
Pfah!
And calling it "realistic"?? when -as I mentioned- the current system does realistically portrays the effect of your -character- overlooking the sneaky person sneaking sneakily around...
That's you wanting it "easy mode" when you could just run magelight as well...
And it would make all attempts at surprise attacks completely meaningless in cyrodil. I mean, really... even if your sneak idea hides stuff, not like it wouldb't be completely obvious who was sneaking up to this or that position... since allies would not need to sneak in their territory.

BtW, ninjas did not "stealth" by running around in black slothes, no matter what hollywood tells you... they disguised themselves as farmers, servants and such, people noone bothered to give a second glance to do their ninjaing... something we only get in PvE, sadly. I'd love to have cyrodil fiulled with generic "servants" going in and out of keeps, and a minigame to "infiltrate" in disguise... though I guess that would just add too much lag. Not to mention, in a warzone, the guards would be extra alert...
I'd also love to see grapppling hooks to sneak over a wall under cover of night and do sneaky things in an enemy keep (gods how I'd like a minigame to pour poison in a keeps stock of potions and then have all defenders player brought potions give them poisoned status... or similar AoE sabotage missions... or sneak in and unlock the door, and similar shennanigans, but alas... such ninjaing is reserved for PvE, where one can do the TG and DB missions with sneaky sneaks!)

idk

no

Zalicius wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Zalicius wrote: »

I have to say, sneak is pretty stupid even in PVE. You can be sighted by an enemy, but can still jump in a basket to avoid them. I mean you will still get a gold penalty, although you can avoid confrontation by repeatedly trying to jump in a basket. It's pretty silly.

The baskets are only TG and DB areas and unrelated to what OP is complaining about.

Oh, really? Well, thank you for clearing absolutely nothing up. :P

If you have questions about why the baskets are not related I am happy to clarify.

GeorgeBlack

yes

Ye because people being invisible as long as they are not within a detection radius is sooo cooool.

I'm at the walls. I look outside the castle. Nothing. Little did I know there's 40 people that have pressed CTRL, right in front of me. How coool!! How very adventurous!!!

I mean it would be a lot more meaningful to have to hide near rocks and trees and shadowy places, but "no, no, no!! It's a TES thing (like I give a flying cliff racer if it's a TES thing.. lol ) leave it as it is!!"
As if my raid can't Crouch and ninja siege, surely if a propose a better Ambush System, I am unabled to Crouch. Me and the group I joined decided to ask for a nerf..

As if I can't log in with my ganger toon, press CTRL outside of Sejanus and gap close on my selected target. No. The reason of this post is to "complain" about sneak.

And we got the usual negative people like "it's not a TES thing-It's terrible idea"
feeling compelled to perform their joyless duty of posting the same old "here's how the game works. Changing how the game works is a No No"

Here's what I think.

I can work with the current sneak, no probs. I suggest something more fun. Negative people panic. They don't like change, therefore this is a nerf thread. My base arguement is destroyed by the forum OVERLORD user named I've-been-posting-since-day-one-My-Opinion-Is-Supreme-The-Rest-Are-Less-Inteligent.... puke replies

Changes to game systems happen. You are not important. Keep posting replies. You waste your moments being mr/ms "No. Not while I'm posting in this public forum."

Realistc Sneak.

No invisible toons causeCTRL
Better ganging feel.
Meaningful scouting.
Invisibility to the roque class only.

Cyrodiil will become a place that PvPrs will buy the game for.
More suggestions next time I take a bath in a barrel.
Keep rejecting. Such opinions don't have the gravity you fantasize they do. Not to anyone that matters at least : >




Btw... did you know that ninjas didn't run around in black cloths AND symbols of fertility that were wrongly used as...and other useless info that people believe they only know about (useless info as a matter of fact)... PUBLIC FORUMS
/bacon memes

GeorgeBlack

yes

Edit wrong quote. Post deleted.

GeorgeBlack

yes

@Giles.floydub17_ESO
Clarify for me about those TG DB baskets. I need your forum skillz.
I'll reward you with an insightful.
Don't spend it all on one go!

Krayzie

When I got this game, the main thing I considered was how realistic it was

GeorgeBlack

yes

Krayzie wrote: »

When I got this game, the main thing I considered was how realistic it was

I got it becsuse the advertising posters all over the busses/bus stops in my city were so damn well done that i was like "I want to play this ESO game"

Tommy_The_Gun

no

So you are asking basically to make you visible to other players while in sneak....
Unless ZOS will add sneaking NPCs that will sneak between castles / keeps / forts... oh wait... they don't so it will relatively easy to distinguish NPCs from a sneaking AP bag....

GeorgeBlack

yes

@Tommy_The_Gun
No I'm asking for ZOS to change sneak from total invisibility to a system in which sneak makes players shadowy figures which during Sneak don't display: pets healthbars, nameplates, Icons etc.
Shadowy figures which when near rocks trees and other objects might be difficult to spot.

Shadowy figures that are visible if they stand in random locations which don't obstruct vision.

I ask zos to remove invisibility by sneaking.


It is obvious that this ain't how Zos designed sneak.

Are there any good reasons not to change the sneak system?

Btw I am aware that lots of things in ESO require the attention of developers, but the topic I opened is not about which of the current problems need to be addressed. It's about a possible Realistic Sneak system.

This system will have nothing to do with detection potions and skills or Invisibility Potions and Nightblade skills.
Detection skills and sets will have nothing to do with Realistic Sneak. They can be used against NBs, invisible pot users or PvE. Or the can become items and skills that people no longer feel the need to use that much, like many other features of the game.

Danikat

no

TheShadowScout wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Nope. You just want it ez mode.
Ninjas wannabe, but they can't do it right.

Sez the one who wants to practically eliminate stealth from PvP.
Yeah... riiight.

I for one would totally like some stealth tweaks, like time of the day, ambient light sources and available cover adding into detection chance... (possibly even gear color, though I guess that would be a bit harder to code - though doable, just assign some modifier to colors, some which are drab and "stealthy" others which are bright/metallic and thus "flashy")
...perhaps even some additional effects, like consumable disguise items like shrubbery coverings, camo poncho, cloak of elvenkind, or whatever crafty Larissa used for her fern trick... that are bought and lost when spotted, but give a good boost to stealth while active... and then reduce basic stealth chance to compensate that the sneaky sneaks need such sneaky tricks to keep up the current sneakyness...

But just letting every player spot every stealther like you suggest??
Pfah!
And calling it "realistic"?? when -as I mentioned- the current system does realistically portrays the effect of your -character- overlooking the sneaky person sneaking sneakily around...
That's you wanting it "easy mode" when you could just run magelight as well...
And it would make all attempts at surprise attacks completely meaningless in cyrodil. I mean, really... even if your sneak idea hides stuff, not like it wouldb't be completely obvious who was sneaking up to this or that position... since allies would not need to sneak in their territory.

BtW, ninjas did not "stealth" by running around in black slothes, no matter what hollywood tells you... they disguised themselves as farmers, servants and such, people noone bothered to give a second glance to do their ninjaing... something we only get in PvE, sadly. I'd love to have cyrodil fiulled with generic "servants" going in and out of keeps, and a minigame to "infiltrate" in disguise... though I guess that would just add too much lag. Not to mention, in a warzone, the guards would be extra alert...
I'd also love to see grapppling hooks to sneak over a wall under cover of night and do sneaky things in an enemy keep (gods how I'd like a minigame to pour poison in a keeps stock of potions and then have all defenders player brought potions give them poisoned status... or similar AoE sabotage missions... or sneak in and unlock the door, and similar shennanigans, but alas... such ninjaing is reserved for PvE, where one can do the TG and DB missions with sneaky sneaks!)

This is what I expected when I opened this topic. Something that would actually make sneaking more realistic, not just switch which side has the unfair advantage in PvP.

When Horizon Zero Dawn came out my husband was often playing it at the same time I was playing ESO and every time he messed up sneaking by moving too quickly or going through a patch where the grass was too short or missing the first attack I'd taunt him by sneaking around in ESO, in bright sunlight in full view of people who were just outside the arbitrary distance at which they can see me.

As much as it does make things easier it's also very unrealistic. And it's not a "TES thing". In previous TES games things like wearing light shoes instead of heavy boots (or no shoes) and moving slowly so you make less noise helped you sneak. In ESO you can crash around in full plate mail and no one cares as long as you're in sneak mode.

It would be nice to make it more realistic, but what the OP is not suggesting is not making it more realistic, just flipping who has the arbitrary, unrealistic advantage.

GeorgeBlack

yes

@Danikat
Well I hope that in the future you husband will have a laugh at your expense if you mess up the new sneak in ESO : )
Progress is good.
"Leave it as it is" is not good.

The current state is not bad per se. I just though about it being a bit better. Why not?

Wolfenbelle

no

Absolutely no! You PvP people are such wusses...always looking to nerf something you have trouble beating or avoiding. It's a G A M E. Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose. Deal with it.

GeorgeBlack

yes

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Absolutely no! You PvP people are such wusses...always looking to nerf something you have trouble beating or avoiding. It's a G A M E. Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose. Deal with it.

@Wolfenbelle
I said in PvE it works as currently does. Why bring in PvP PvE and what not?
How does this topic affect you since you are PvE?

Wolfenbelle

no

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Absolutely no! You PvP people are such wusses...always looking to nerf something you have trouble beating or avoiding. It's a G A M E. Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose. Deal with it.

@Wolfenbelle
I said in PvE it works as currently does. Why bring in PvP PvE and what not?
How does this topic affect you since you are PvE?

Because ZOS refuses to separate PvE and PvP balance, so whenever you PvP types convince them to nerf something, it screws PvE most of the time.