Medium armor skill Evasion

GeorgeBlack

Lower cost than Heavy armor skill.
Larger duration than heavy armor/light armor BY FAR
Passive evasion is OP in an action combat game (block, roll dodge, sprint, teleport, invisibility).
Being used by:
MagikaDK
StamDK
MagikaNB
StamNB

Heavy armor users
Light armor users
Medium armor users


You must acknowledge that every competitive build in Cyrodiil uses this skill. They ALL also use:

Passive proc damage sets
Sustain stats to the fullest. No need for offensive stats (Traits, Sets, enchantments)
1h/shield for blocking(Stamina and Magika)
Two handed Animation Cancelling for massive amounts of damage within a second. And EVEN THOUGH they do not need offensive stats, as shown above, they can still burst you to death, you and 4 others.


We can all change our setup to this playstyle. It is very easy. My point is that all the builds/guides are the same.

There is no skill in passively avoiding damage with Evasion, while spamming roll dodge and Vigor thanks to all the sustain stats, and then, even without serious offensive stats proc PASSIVELY damage and burst a target with animation cancelling.

No skill. We can all do it.

Is this what you want for PvP?

the same 4 builds running around with that ugly looking colourless Evasion?



Come on @ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Let's get some changes happening. For starters reduce duration increase cost, and reduce the chance to PASSIVELY avoid damage.

I for one would like to see the skill deleted.

Lirkin

I won't like to see it taken away unless they take shields and stuns away. Why not all defensive skills!

Avran_Sylt

Eh, I kinda think armor skills should only be usable if you're wearing 5 pieces or more of the armor type. Prolly buff the heavy armor one then though.

GeorgeBlack

Be objective.

olsborg

Shuffle should have the requirement to have 5 medium armor equipped. this skill is mostly op when combined with heavy armor.

GeorgeBlack

I agree with the 5 piece logic. I would go as far as 7piece. Wanna be a tank? Be a tank.
wanna be a ninja? Be a ninja. Wear the full armor.

GreenSoup2HoT

Limit armour skills to 5 pieces. All though i could see people complaining about heavy nightblades with mirage already.

Synfaer

Asking for more nerfs...

Yep thats gonna end well

WhitePawPrints

Synfaer wrote: »

Asking for more nerfs...

Yep thats gonna end well

More nerfs on a stamina ability even.

I don't disagree with making it limited to medium armor only wearers though. I am quite tired of nearly every player I fight in Cyrodil is wearing heavy armor metas, and some of them do use this ability making it even more annoying to fight them.

Morgul667

Nerfing stamina is not the answer

Maybe limiting the use of shuffle to medium armor wearers could be

dem0n1k

I also think the requirement for 5pc of medium to use the ability is not a bad idea. 7pc is a bit over the top though...Anyone who has gone to the trouble of levelling their undanted level is going to use 5/1/1 for the passives.

Ehrlichcoleb14_ESO

If everything is the same, then it's balanced. How's that for meta.

AKSb16_ESO2

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Eh, I kinda think armor skills should only be usable if you're wearing 5 pieces or more of the armor type. Prolly buff the heavy armor one then though.

This.
Or otherwise I want to be able to use destro ulti while fighting with two swords.

Qbiken

You must acknowledge that every competitive build in Cyrodiil uses this skill. They ALL also use:

Passive proc damage sets
Sustain stats to the fullest. No need for offensive stats (Traits, Sets, enchantments)
1h/shield for blocking(Stamina and Magika)
Two handed Animation Cancelling for massive amounts of damage within a second. And EVEN THOUGH they do not need offensive stats, as shown above, they can still burst you to death, you and 4 others.

* To claim that every competitive build use shuffle toger is an exaggeration. For stamina builds it´s more correct, on magikca builds it´s not used that often. It happens, but you´re better with a magicka shield instead of shuffle.
* People are going full sustain (or at least more sustain) now due to Morrowind nerfpatch.
* 1h/shield is better for the defensive part.

(Before we continue, lets leave stuff like "sufflestacking" and other cheats out of the discussion, if we´re going to have a decent topic we´ll somehow have to assume that the skills in the game work somewhat as intended, even if that´s not always the case)

If you want to complain about shuffle, at least leave out other defensive mechanisms for PvP. You can´t claim something is broken/OP just because it´s synergies well with something else. Evasion gives you major evasion for 20 seconds (more if you´ve more medium armor pieces slotted), the extra feature from Shuffle is that you get a snare immunity for a few second (0,5 seconds if you´re using 7 pieces of Heavy armor. 3,5 seconds if using 7 pieces of medium armor).´

So unless the snare-immunity part is the issue here I´ll assume that it´s the Major Evasion buff that bothers you. First of all, this buff got nerfed to 15% down from 20% a while back. This change was very noticable in PvP and PvE. A lot of people tend to forget that there´re other ways to get the major evasion buff. One of the best sets that I love to use is "Specter´s Eye". When casting a magicka ability you get major evasion for 3 seconds (6 second cooldown). Tried this set on PTS on magicka DK and having a 50% uptime on major evasion is still good. But I still haven´t seen a single thread on this forum complaining about this set, even though it´s one of the best PvP sets I´ve used in the game. So I`ll make an assumption that it´s the duration and probably the cost of the skill that is the issue here.

Shuffle should have the requirement to have 5 medium armor equipped. this skill is mostly op when combined with heavy armor.

ESO marketing themself as a game that offers diversity with gear/builds etc. An idea like this is the exact opposite to that. And this wouldn´t change the amount of complains about Shuffle anyway, since people already complain about mediumarmor users using Shuffle in PvP.

Let's get some changes happening. For starters reduce duration increase cost, and reduce the chance to PASSIVELY avoid damage

Since the change to avoid was nerfed recently I would be surprised if they nerfed the dodgechance even more. And even if they did, people would still complain about passive dodgechange. Your first suggestion about reducing duration and increase cost is probably the "best" change (even though I don´t find Shuffle to overperform, Inb4: "You defend it because you use it"......*sigh*). That change would actually go well with the "Morrowind-Spirit" of resourcemanagement.

staracino_ESO

Passive chance to avoid all damage does not go well with a game that has a combat system like this.

Enslaved

I would not agree that light armor dampen/harness magicka is not used as much as shuffle.Also, evasion is chance / percent based, while light armor skill will shield you from any damage, and heavy armor one will give you CC immunity (no need to elaborate how essential is that in PvP). That is why cost and duration is adequate for each of armor skills.

Qbiken

Enslaved wrote: »

I would not agree that light armor dampen/harness magicka is not used as much as shuffle.Also, evasion is chance / percent based, while light armor skill will shield you from any damage, and heavy armor one will give you CC immunity (no need to elaborate how essential is that in PvP). That is why cost and duration is adequate for each of armor skills.

Also one of the morphs (Immovable brute) reduce the cost of break free by up to 28% ish when slotted. If that´s not balanced compared to other skillines I´m not sure what to Think....

GeorgeBlack

there is no guarantee that u will have the bar with immovable brute ON when u get CCed.

Qbiken

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

there is no guarantee that u will have the bar with immovable brute ON when u get CCed.

Double slot it. Fixed it for you.

Sneaky-Snurr

I'm quite on the fence about the 5pc requirement.

On one hand, players are going to be limited in armour choices for their preferred playstyle. On the other, it gives a clear sense of opportunity cost of having one armour type over the other.
In some way, it limits diversified builds. Not many heavy or light armour users use shuffle. In that regard, sure it makes sense to restrict but it also makes sense to keep the choice of armour abilities open rather than restricted.

NeillMcAttack

It's not used for the passive dodge chance, it's a nice buff but the strongest thing about the skill is the purge to roots and snares.

And with regards to people constantly dodging attacks. I believe it's much more to do with the large "dodge everything" window granted from a dodge roll. Players have clearly completed the roll but are still dodging due to the large window granted from a roll!

br0steen

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Lower cost than Heavy armor skill.
Larger duration than heavy armor/light armor BY FAR
Passive evasion is OP in an action combat game (block, roll dodge, sprint, teleport, invisibility).
Being used by:
MagikaDK
StamDK
MagikaNB
StamNB

Heavy armor users
Light armor users
Medium armor users


You must acknowledge that every competitive build in Cyrodiil uses this skill. They ALL also use:

Passive proc damage sets
Sustain stats to the fullest. No need for offensive stats (Traits, Sets, enchantments)
1h/shield for blocking(Stamina and Magika)
Two handed Animation Cancelling for massive amounts of damage within a second. And EVEN THOUGH they do not need offensive stats, as shown above, they can still burst you to death, you and 4 others.


We can all change our setup to this playstyle. It is very easy. My point is that all the builds/guides are the same.

There is no skill in passively avoiding damage with Evasion, while spamming roll dodge and Vigor thanks to all the sustain stats, and then, even without serious offensive stats proc PASSIVELY damage and burst a target with animation cancelling.

No skill. We can all do it.

Is this what you want for PvP?

the same 4 builds running around with that ugly looking colourless Evasion?



Come on @ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Let's get some changes happening. For starters reduce duration increase cost, and reduce the chance to PASSIVELY avoid damage.

I for one would like to see the skill deleted.

Somebody has been killed alot recently and noticed people using evasion. Did you make a post a month ago complaining about sorcs and shield stacking?
Maybe steel tornado will make it back to the broken skill list one of these days. Watching the tides turn every so often is very entertaining.

Bigevilpeter

It was nerfed already from 20% to 15% evasion. I think that's enough nerfing.