How does PVP in Battlegrounds differ from PVP in Cyrodiil (non-CP) and why?

Chelister

Given the changes with Morrowind I decided to focus on my sustain and resource management
I have thus farmed sets accordingly, such as the Lich Set and Bone pirate set

I have also farmed 5 pieces of Ravager set (all heavy) for my Stamplar, to receive the passives from the heavy armor skill line (which is supposed to make you tougher)

I have been doing Battlegrounds for couple of days and it seems that all of the sustain that I was working for is kind of worthless since the dynamics of PVP is extremely fast paced
The 5 piece Ravager set literally gives me nothing as people crit & kill me with procs easily

Can someone explain what are the differences in PVP in Battlegrounds and in Cyrodiil (non-CP)
Will there be even separate builds for PVP in Battlegrounds, but which would be not that effective in Cyrodiil?

What first comes into my mind is that given the smaller maps for Battlegrounds & the 15sec respawn, there might be no need to care so much for survival, but damage output
In contrast, given Cyrodiil's enormous map size, survival is much more valuable.

Berenhir

Battlegrounds are won by the group that uses teamspeak or discord to call out single targets to focus. As you don't need any sustain to proc irresistible glyphs, skoria, viper, widowmaker or dawnbreakers four on one, you just have to build for enough defense to enable your toon to live through a short burst before your group comes to help you.

Chelister

Berenhir wrote: »

Battlegrounds are won by the group that uses teamspeak or discord to call out single targets to focus. As you don't need any sustain to proc irresistible glyphs, skoria, viper, widowmaker or dawnbreakers four on one, you just have to build for enough defense to enable your toon to live through a short burst before your group comes to help you.

Yes, it is true, that the group factor plays a huge role

But what I was trying to understand is purely the dynamics of PVP which is your build / playstyle / skills you are running, etc...
As an example, I started running the Onslaught skill, since your constantly encounter enemies given the map is small. I wouldn't, in contrast, put this skill while being in Cyrodiil

I will quote as I don't quite agree "You just have to build for enough defense to enable your toon to live through a short burst before your group comes to help you"
First of all, this assumes that you are communicating with your group
Second of all, given the proc sets, burst is kind of constant
Third of all, why would you again, want to run highly defensive build (unless you carry flags) when survival is not that valuable as you will respawn in 10s and be back at the same point in few seconds

Berenhir

Chelister wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Battlegrounds are won by the group that uses teamspeak or discord to call out single targets to focus. As you don't need any sustain to proc irresistible glyphs, skoria, viper, widowmaker or dawnbreakers four on one, you just have to build for enough defense to enable your toon to live through a short burst before your group comes to help you.

Yes, it is true, that the group factor plays a huge role

But what I was trying to understand is purely the dynamics of PVP which is your build / playstyle / skills you are running, etc...
As an example, I started running the Onslaught skill, since your constantly encounter enemies given the map is small. I wouldn't, in contrast, put this skill while being in Cyrodiil

I will quote as I don't quite agree "You just have to build for enough defense to enable your toon to live through a short burst before your group comes to help you"
First of all, this assumes that you are communicating with your group
Second of all, given the proc sets, burst is kind of constant
Third of all, why would you again, want to run highly defensive build (unless you carry flags) when survival is not that valuable as you will respawn in 10s and be back at the same point in few seconds

Of course you have to be constantly communicating with your group. Just like in Cyrodiil small scale encounters the crown calls out the targets to debuff and burst down: first capable healers, then dps, finally the tank.

If the pugs respawn immediately, chances are high they will rush onto the battlefield one by one and get rekt all over again and again until the match is over.

I didn't mention highly defensive builds anywhere. I said you have to be able to defend yourself against short damage spikes of two to four people. The only build that needs to be capable of tanking four players for half a minute or so might be the healer, but any PvP healer can do that.

SnubbS

It's fast-paced, there are no unkillable builds—it's really good. I'm a big fan of proc-sets, as they massively ramp up burst and create a faster-paced game, so obviously bgs is something I'm a fan of.

Chelister

Berenhir wrote: »

Chelister wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Battlegrounds are won by the group that uses teamspeak or discord to call out single targets to focus. As you don't need any sustain to proc irresistible glyphs, skoria, viper, widowmaker or dawnbreakers four on one, you just have to build for enough defense to enable your toon to live through a short burst before your group comes to help you.

Yes, it is true, that the group factor plays a huge role

But what I was trying to understand is purely the dynamics of PVP which is your build / playstyle / skills you are running, etc...
As an example, I started running the Onslaught skill, since your constantly encounter enemies given the map is small. I wouldn't, in contrast, put this skill while being in Cyrodiil

I will quote as I don't quite agree "You just have to build for enough defense to enable your toon to live through a short burst before your group comes to help you"
First of all, this assumes that you are communicating with your group
Second of all, given the proc sets, burst is kind of constant
Third of all, why would you again, want to run highly defensive build (unless you carry flags) when survival is not that valuable as you will respawn in 10s and be back at the same point in few seconds

Of course you have to be constantly communicating with your group. Just like in Cyrodiil small scale encounters the crown calls out the targets to debuff and burst down: first capable healers, then dps, finally the tank.

If the pugs respawn immediately, chances are high they will rush onto the battlefield one by one and get rekt all over again and again until the match is over.

I didn't mention highly defensive builds anywhere. I said you have to be able to defend yourself against short damage spikes of two to four people. The only build that needs to be capable of tanking four players for half a minute or so might be the healer, but any PvP healer can do that.

I am a console players, PS4, people rarely communicate and don't have mics.
Given that, most of the PVP in Battlegrounds goes without communicating

Do you think there will be separate PVP builds for Battlegrounds, which will be not that effective for Cyrodiil?
If yes, then doesn't it show that there is a difference in PVP between BGs and Cyrodiil?

Docmandu

BGs are nothing more than procsets and dawnbreaker spam... lol@skillful gameplay.

Nullmagic

Docmandu wrote: »

BGs are nothing more than procsets and dawnbreaker spam... lol@skillful gameplay.

It's a terrible meta, and generally not fun, but some people are vastly better at it than others, regardless.

SnubbS

Docmandu wrote: »

BGs are nothing more than procsets and dawnbreaker spam... lol@skillful gameplay.

There's very minimal skill in ESO PvP. The hardest thing in ESO PvP is probably hitting a Dizzy Swing. You don't even have to aim abilities. Positioning, Timing abilities, Decision-making and group movement are really the only things that separate players in ESO PvP—and all four of those traits are dumbed down in this game to the absolute extreme.

Cyrodiil—don't even get me started on how it compares with BGs. PvP in Cyrodiil is so slow-paced due to the large scale blobfests that it's generally not even playable unless you're ball-zerging and farming, at that point, it's incredibly fun.

Nullmagic wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

BGs are nothing more than procsets and dawnbreaker spam... lol@skillful gameplay.

It's a terrible meta, and generally not fun, but some people are vastly better at it than others, regardless.

Why is high-burst bad in your opinion? I would rather it be like 1.6 where I 2-4 shot other squishy DDs with abilities, but proc sets generally offer the same thing.

Berenhir

Chelister wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Chelister wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Battlegrounds are won by the group that uses teamspeak or discord to call out single targets to focus. As you don't need any sustain to proc irresistible glyphs, skoria, viper, widowmaker or dawnbreakers four on one, you just have to build for enough defense to enable your toon to live through a short burst before your group comes to help you.

Yes, it is true, that the group factor plays a huge role

But what I was trying to understand is purely the dynamics of PVP which is your build / playstyle / skills you are running, etc...
As an example, I started running the Onslaught skill, since your constantly encounter enemies given the map is small. I wouldn't, in contrast, put this skill while being in Cyrodiil

I will quote as I don't quite agree "You just have to build for enough defense to enable your toon to live through a short burst before your group comes to help you"
First of all, this assumes that you are communicating with your group
Second of all, given the proc sets, burst is kind of constant
Third of all, why would you again, want to run highly defensive build (unless you carry flags) when survival is not that valuable as you will respawn in 10s and be back at the same point in few seconds

Of course you have to be constantly communicating with your group. Just like in Cyrodiil small scale encounters the crown calls out the targets to debuff and burst down: first capable healers, then dps, finally the tank.

If the pugs respawn immediately, chances are high they will rush onto the battlefield one by one and get rekt all over again and again until the match is over.

I didn't mention highly defensive builds anywhere. I said you have to be able to defend yourself against short damage spikes of two to four people. The only build that needs to be capable of tanking four players for half a minute or so might be the healer, but any PvP healer can do that.

I am a console players, PS4, people rarely communicate and don't have mics.
Given that, most of the PVP in Battlegrounds goes without communicating

Do you think there will be separate PVP builds for Battlegrounds, which will be not that effective for Cyrodiil?
If yes, then doesn't it show that there is a difference in PVP between BGs and Cyrodiil?

Okay, I cannot speak for console players. The only time I am not on teamspeak is when I'm in solo content like vMA
But the builds for BG will be the same as for small-scale PvP. Stamina DDs, proc sets, defile tank, heal bot and/or a sorc spamming execute.

There is no need for a sophisticated build discussion. Slot resource poisons, sets like Viper, selene, tremorscale, velidreth, skoria, pirate skeleton, widowmaker, fasallas, durok and or cyro crest will do the job, as always.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

The main difference I've seen is that you can be out of resources very quickly if you do not heavy attack a ton.

Also, my physical resistance now stinks but that's a personal problem.

That said, in the death match even if you're not talking just standing next to a teammate will lead to better results. Going all solo yolo is a death sentence for most people.

hmsdragonfly

The difference is that a dude with tremor and viper will ransack you to death. So, if you don't want to go full ***,
1) Build towards tankiness and keep pressure on the procset user. If they go full proc, their heal will not be strong, that's their achilles' heel. Recommend tanky StamDK/Magplar/MagDK.
2) Be a stealthy Nightblade and gank the proc user. You need to do like a 5-skill combo perfectly with all the animation cancel and stuffs, else the proc user will press one button and you die.
3) Be a demigod and simply outplay the proc user. It takes a lot of skills this way.
4) Cry in a corner.