Why is everyone so upset? ESO takes place duing a a Dragon Break it won't effect TES6. Relax

Publius_Scipio

So this means I am really not Caius Cosades' ancestor?

RinaldoGandolphi

Osteos wrote: »

@RinaldoGandolphi

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Game mechanics.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

There is no need to account for all the vestiges. That is just what happens in an MMO. Are we going to have to account for my character killing named bosses multiple times? Respawning is needed or there is no content left.

Dragon breaks may be the reason for many things, but they aren't the reason for multiple vestiges. I can group with other vestiges and we can do vestige only things. There is no more need to account for that in the lore than there is a need to account for mounts appearing out of thin air or being able to walk through other players.

This is my answer. I simply don't have to.

Game mechanics isn't even trying to answer it, and the way the games story, background, dialogue, and book interactions are presented say the story is told from your player characters perspective not someone else's. One way or another those contradictions need to be rectified if they want to carry bits and pieces forward it has to make sense.

Abeille

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

I HATE the "Dragon Break" excuse (the CHIM excuse too when used to explain inconsistencies).

It's a lazy cop-out, a poor narrative device, a gimmick equivalent to "coma theories" and "it was all just a dream" when it comes to bad storytelling.

I'll look for any other explanation, as absurd as it is, before accepting a Dragon Break as an explanation. This sort of cop-out irks me to no end.

Well the only other way they can handle inconsistencies is to handwave it off as no longer canon. Which I feel is the even lazier way of dealing with it. At least with CHIM and Dragonbreaks they are in some manners adding to the lore and at the same time not taking things the players did or took part in and dismissing it.

I do think they need to get away from using Dragonbreaks as much because itll become a really tiresome trope farther into the franchise we get. But for now its still reasonable to think that Dragonbreaks have happened from time to time.

It isn't the only way. There are also unreliable narrators and simply game mechanics to explain it away. There is no need to try to use such a cop-out to justify the game's mechanics, lore and game mechanics are not one and the same.

When this sort of Time Crash trope is used as part of the narrative instead of to explain away inconsistencies or the game mechanics, it doesn't bother me. When people say ESO is happening during a Dragon Break because of perceived inconsistencies or game mechanics, that's when it bothers me. Time crash and reality-breaking paradoxes end up as a Deus ex Machina trope if you use them like that; a way to "escape" because you wrote yourself into a corner. A cop-out. And that tickles me off.

Osteos

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

@RinaldoGandolphi

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Game mechanics.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

There is no need to account for all the vestiges. That is just what happens in an MMO. Are we going to have to account for my character killing named bosses multiple times? Respawning is needed or there is no content left.

Dragon breaks may be the reason for many things, but they aren't the reason for multiple vestiges. I can group with other vestiges and we can do vestige only things. There is no more need to account for that in the lore than there is a need to account for mounts appearing out of thin air or being able to walk through other players.

This is my answer. I simply don't have to.

Game mechanics isn't even trying to answer it, and the way the games story, background, dialogue, and book interactions are presented say the story is told from your player characters perspective not someone else's. One way or another those contradictions need to be rectified if they want to carry bits and pieces forward it has to make sense.

Yes but what does this have to do with the title of your thread? How does Duke Renchant being alive or dead for different players effect TES6? As far as I know we don't know where or when TES6 is going to take place. It could be 500 years after Skyrim or they could decide to go farther back in time and have it be during the dragon war in the Merethic Era.

The simple answer is that they set this game far enough back in the timeline from the previous TES games and during a time that wasn't fully fleshed out in the lore to allow for a little wiggle room. It gives us the players a little more replayability, I killed so and so last time now I'm going to see what happens if I let them live, without it requiring retconning or a dragon break to explain it. So again we do not need a dragon break to explain away game mechanics.

Koensol

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

I HATE the "Dragon Break" excuse (the CHIM excuse too when used to explain inconsistencies).

It's a lazy cop-out, a poor narrative device, a gimmick equivalent to "coma theories" and "it was all just a dream" when it comes to bad storytelling.

I'll look for any other explanation, as absurd as it is, before accepting a Dragon Break as an explanation. This sort of cop-out irks me to no end.

The only other explanation(which i did not include here because I don't like it) is the events of ESO only occur in the Vestige's Mind because he was driven insane by the Mad God Sheogorath.(Atronach mounts looking like wolves, Sprigans looking like horses, riding around on a Dwemer spider are all things only insane people would see)

The Vestige spends far too much time with Sheogorth in ESO via the Mage's Guild line, Sheo randomly pops up in that town in Grahtwood.....no one spends that much time around Sheo, and enters the Isles as many times as he does without being driven mad....even the Shezzarine in Oblivion is eventually driven insane by Sheogorath even before he dips the Staff into the Font of Maddness....

That explanation is not even possibly right, because even before ESO launched, there were hints in the lore, pointing towards this period of war and unrest. Here is a link to a book that was in the original TES3 Morrowind: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Odral's_History_of_the_Empire_1

"Before the rule of Tiber Septim, all Tamriel was in chaos. The poet Tracizis called that period of continuous unrest "days and nights of blood and venom." The kings were a petty lot of grasping tyrants, who fought Tiber's attempts to bring order to the land."

The above paragraph directly points towards the events in ESO, specifically the alliance war. "Days and nights of blood and venom" is the key phrase here. This is further backed up by Malukah's song for ESO, where she sings about this. Video linked below.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zwp8UxIY_iM

So no, the 'sheogorath made vestige insane' argument is invalid if you ask me. I wouldn't vouch for a dragon break either, though because it is as unoriginal as anything and it takes away from the mysteriousness of a previous few dragonbreaks. It should be a highly rare occurence and not a standard way to explain contradicting accounts. I would personally leave these contradictions it open to discussion. I mean why do we always need everything 100% chewed out in black and white. The best lore keeps you constantly guessing and wondering. Tiber Septims heritage and the battle of red mountain are two good examples.

Aisle9

"Hey... so... remember that piece we just wrote, you know, the one you said you want to put in the game... "

"Yeah, what of it ?"

"Well... it kind of breaks the lore in some areas... it won't work with the previous titles..."

"Time travel"

"...Brilliant"

Magıc

Thoughts on Talos being Nord and not Breton as confirmed by you yourself in another thread? @RinaldoGandolphi

OtarTheMad

Very good point about this being during a Dragon Break and it would be able to explain all of the "Vestiges" that are running around. It completely lines up too and the events would indeed cause one, or could in ES lore. Let's not also forget that all the events that happen here (if not a Break) will be so far in the past that it won't matter much when TES 6 hits. TES 6 will probably take place late Fourth Era or Fifth Era and this game is in the Second, events will get "muddied up" by the time of the next single player game. (This is assuming they go forward in time still with the next installment)

Also to Magic- it depends what you mean when you say Talos. Talos the God is made up of three different people: Tiber Septim, Zurin Arctus and Wulfharth. If you are talking about Talos the man (Tiber) then Bethesda themselves ended some discussion on what race he is (sort of): https://imperial-library.info/content/letters-elder-scrolls-adventures. I know you addressed your question to someone else but thought I'd chime in.

RinaldoGandolphi

Osteos wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

@RinaldoGandolphi

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Game mechanics.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

There is no need to account for all the vestiges. That is just what happens in an MMO. Are we going to have to account for my character killing named bosses multiple times? Respawning is needed or there is no content left.

Dragon breaks may be the reason for many things, but they aren't the reason for multiple vestiges. I can group with other vestiges and we can do vestige only things. There is no more need to account for that in the lore than there is a need to account for mounts appearing out of thin air or being able to walk through other players.

This is my answer. I simply don't have to.

Game mechanics isn't even trying to answer it, and the way the games story, background, dialogue, and book interactions are presented say the story is told from your player characters perspective not someone else's. One way or another those contradictions need to be rectified if they want to carry bits and pieces forward it has to make sense.

Yes but what does this have to do with the title of your thread? How does Duke Renchant being alive or dead for different players effect TES6? As far as I know we don't know where or when TES6 is going to take place. It could be 500 years after Skyrim or they could decide to go farther back in time and have it be during the dragon war in the Merethic Era.

The simple answer is that they set this game far enough back in the timeline from the previous TES games and during a time that wasn't fully fleshed out in the lore to allow for a little wiggle room. It gives us the players a little more replayability, I killed so and so last time now I'm going to see what happens if I let them live, without it requiring retconning or a dragon break to explain it. So again we do not need a dragon break to explain away game mechanics.

It doesn't effect it directly, but it effects it "indirectly"..because it throws inconsistencies into the series lore that are not easily rectified. Each game in the series takes small bits and pieces from previous games and intertwines them into the larger story.

Everyone assumes there is no records or books from the Interegnuum period that survive(the time of ESO), but thats simply not true.

Marobar Sul's Ancient Tales of the Dwemer as well as the Ransom of Zarek were written and published during this time and survive still down to the 3rd and 4th eras...

The perspective the story is told from(your character's) things simply don't make any sense.

So Duke Rechant is magically resurrected every few minutes so another Vestige can decide to kill him or not? He has already been killed thousands of times? how do you possibly fit that in to the larger TES lore story? I don't think you can without help.

How about all those Daedric Anchors? You destroyed Molag Bal's Planar Vortex and defeated him yet Molag Bal can still drop Daedric Anchors and try to pull Nirn into Coldharbor despite the Soul Burst being over? That would be like Oblivion Gates still opening despite defeating Dagon and resealing the Oblivion Barriers, it wouldn't make any sense.

This is not a little bit of wiggle room, these are plot holes the size of the grand canyon that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever on their own in the whole Tamrelic lore.

How about Cyrodiil? At the time ESO takes Place Cyrodiil is a jungle, its not transformed into what it is as depicted in ESO and Oblivion until Talos achieves CHIM and uses "The Voice" in conjunction with it to shout Cyrodiil into what it looks like in ESO(most likely his CHIM + Shout was able to effect WGT getting it to transform Cyrodiil)...problem is Talos isn't even born yet...I have tried to rationalize this as Talos change being "retroactive" across the timeline, but there is no evidence of this being the case. I also came to this conclusion before the release of IC. The fact the Daedra in Imperial City are chipping away the White Gold Tower during the events of ESO has obviously weakened the strength of the tower to some degree during this time frame which makes the retroactive theory not really fit due to WGT being significantly weakened during this time frame.

CHIM is the "Syllable of Royalty"

"Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.'"

ZOS putting Cyrodiil into ESO in its current form(Not a Jungle and looking like its Oblivion counterpart) is spitting on the divinity of Talos and trying to erase the fact that Talos not only ascended to God Hood, but also achieved CHIM. Talos changing Cyrodiil is the ONLY real direct evidence that Talos achieved CHIM and God Hood and ZOS has literally erased it from the lore in ESO.

We know for a fact Talos Ascended because The Blood of Tiber Septim was used to open a portal to Mankar Cameron's plane of Oblivion(A pocket of the Deadlands) that required the Blood of a Daedra(an artifact) and the Blood of a Divine(Found on Tiber's Armor) in order to open the way, so that proves without a doubt that Talos became a god, yet ESO is trying to erase that fact with their depiction of Cyrodiil.

What's even more disappointing is that the "Cyrodiil is jungle" bit isn't some obscure bit of trivia from Daggerfall back in the '90's. There was an NPC in the main city in Skyrim literally SCREAMING about it. In the most recent single player game released.

the Stormcloaks, The Blades, and The Order of Talos would have BIG issues with the way ZOS has rendered Cyrodiil in ESO

If folks don't want to accept the Dragon Break theory, then ZOS is going to have to come up with some other plot device to reconcile these inconsistencies and contradictions. The loss of history, being very real, is not an excuse for a story told that makes no sense from the perspective its told from, as well as a depiction of Cyrodiil existing that won't exist until Talos who hasn't been born yet changes it into that .

These are very real issues with the story that need to be addressed.

RinaldoGandolphi

Also, this isn't about a whos right or wrong thing

i'd just like them to add an in-game book, a quest, something to explain the contradictions and inconsistencies. they ahve this whole forgotten period of time and it would be a shame to be left with a story that doesn't make sense from the perspective its told from. they have potential here to really make something great story wise. To add to lore in ways not possible since Daggerfall. I really hope they don't squander the chance.

notimetocare

As a long time TES fan, especially the lore, Having none of ESO impact TES6 would be irritatingly stupid.

RinaldoGandolphi

notimetocare wrote: »

As a long time TES fan, especially the lore, Having none of ESO impact TES6 would be irritatingly stupid.

Agreed

The nice thing about a Dragon Break is it ends up rectifying all the contradictions and inconsistencies and thus they become part of the series lore(Just like all 6 of Daggerfall's endings all became canon) and thus can be included in future stories in the series. (a Dragon break NEVER erases anything from the timeline, to contrary a Break ends up cementing it to the timeline, thus you end up having a more fleshed out story because multiple outcomes all become true. the presence of Alduin in Skyrim would not have been possible without a Dragon Break)

I would like to see bits and pieces of ESO story in future games going forward. There is a lot of this story to like. If they don't want to go the route of a break, then they simply need to add to the story in a way that explains these inconsistencies. They done it with the books that haven't been written yet in the game, I don't see any reason why they couldn't add to the story to explain these things if they don't want to go the break route.

I'd be happy with anything they put in the game that makes all these things make sense. New lore is preferable, its the mystery that makes TES series stories so interesting!

Enodoc

Abeille wrote: »

I HATE the "Dragon Break" excuse (the CHIM excuse too when used to explain inconsistencies).

It's a lazy cop-out, a poor narrative device, a gimmick equivalent to "coma theories" and "it was all just a dream" when it comes to bad storytelling.

I'll look for any other explanation, as absurd as it is, before accepting a Dragon Break as an explanation. This sort of cop-out irks me to no end.

Agreed. But I do like the effort gone to in the OP to explain how it works as a Dragon Break. Nobody else who's claimed Dragon Break has gone through the whole shebang of what makes it work, they've just claimed Dragon Break and left it at that.

Abeille

Enodoc wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

I HATE the "Dragon Break" excuse (the CHIM excuse too when used to explain inconsistencies).

It's a lazy cop-out, a poor narrative device, a gimmick equivalent to "coma theories" and "it was all just a dream" when it comes to bad storytelling.

I'll look for any other explanation, as absurd as it is, before accepting a Dragon Break as an explanation. This sort of cop-out irks me to no end.

Agreed. But I do like the effort gone to in the OP to explain how it works as a Dragon Break. Nobody else who's claimed Dragon Break has gone through the whole shebang of what makes it work, they've just claimed Dragon Break and left it at that.

I can't say I disagree. Yes, I appreciate the effort the OP put on his theory too, even if I don't agree with it.

Enodoc

Abeille wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

I HATE the "Dragon Break" excuse (the CHIM excuse too when used to explain inconsistencies).

It's a lazy cop-out, a poor narrative device, a gimmick equivalent to "coma theories" and "it was all just a dream" when it comes to bad storytelling.

I'll look for any other explanation, as absurd as it is, before accepting a Dragon Break as an explanation. This sort of cop-out irks me to no end.

Agreed. But I do like the effort gone to in the OP to explain how it works as a Dragon Break. Nobody else who's claimed Dragon Break has gone through the whole shebang of what makes it work, they've just claimed Dragon Break and left it at that.

I can't say I disagree. Yes, I appreciate the effort the OP put on his theory too, even if I don't agree with it.

Right. I'm sure most of the things can be explained without having to use a dragon break.

Iccotak

You guys do know that the Loremasters already said that this is canon content in the main timeline right?

Huyen

EstelioVeleth wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

I love me a dragon break almost as much as kitkat bars

I want a kitkat so badly right now.............. ;___; and a twix. And I agree with op and want world peace as well.

Left twix? Or the right one? Choose carefully, for your influence may change the world!

RinaldoGandolphi

Iccotak wrote: »

You guys do know that the Loremasters already said that this is canon content in the main timeline right?

A Dragon Break doesn't make it non-canon though, it does the opposite. It allows multiple possible outcomes to all be canon (See the ending of TES2:Daggerfall)

As i said, i'd just like to see them add to the lore to explain the inconsistencies and contradictions while continuing to add to the story that makes The Elder Scrolls.It will make the story overall more deeper while still keeping an air of mystery about some of the finer details

RinaldoGandolphi

Its also perfectly fine to disagree, the post is meant to be thought provoking.

TES Lore leaves a lot to ambiguity and interpretation. This is done intentionally.

Addressing the issues raised leaves us all with a mound of clay that can molded thousands of different ways, keeping that mystery and alure that makes TES unique.

Kaktus

Just wanted to add another example to point to the fact that something is up with time in ESO...

At one point in Glenumbra you literally travel backwards in time and cause changes that affect the present. Your choices affect entire family lines and presumably tens (to possibly hundreds) of people simply cease to exist because your actions cause their ancestors to die, while other people change genders or entire family lines pop into existence that otherwise shouldn't. (A Step Back in Time is the quest)

Osteos

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

@RinaldoGandolphi

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Game mechanics.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

There is no need to account for all the vestiges. That is just what happens in an MMO. Are we going to have to account for my character killing named bosses multiple times? Respawning is needed or there is no content left.

Dragon breaks may be the reason for many things, but they aren't the reason for multiple vestiges. I can group with other vestiges and we can do vestige only things. There is no more need to account for that in the lore than there is a need to account for mounts appearing out of thin air or being able to walk through other players.

This is my answer. I simply don't have to.

Game mechanics isn't even trying to answer it, and the way the games story, background, dialogue, and book interactions are presented say the story is told from your player characters perspective not someone else's. One way or another those contradictions need to be rectified if they want to carry bits and pieces forward it has to make sense.

Yes but what does this have to do with the title of your thread? How does Duke Renchant being alive or dead for different players effect TES6? As far as I know we don't know where or when TES6 is going to take place. It could be 500 years after Skyrim or they could decide to go farther back in time and have it be during the dragon war in the Merethic Era.

The simple answer is that they set this game far enough back in the timeline from the previous TES games and during a time that wasn't fully fleshed out in the lore to allow for a little wiggle room. It gives us the players a little more replayability, I killed so and so last time now I'm going to see what happens if I let them live, without it requiring retconning or a dragon break to explain it. So again we do not need a dragon break to explain away game mechanics.

It doesn't effect it directly, but it effects it "indirectly"..because it throws inconsistencies into the series lore that are not easily rectified. Each game in the series takes small bits and pieces from previous games and intertwines them into the larger story.

Everyone assumes there is no records or books from the Interegnuum period that survive(the time of ESO), but thats simply not true.

Marobar Sul's Ancient Tales of the Dwemer as well as the Ransom of Zarek were written and published during this time and survive still down to the 3rd and 4th eras...

The perspective the story is told from(your character's) things simply don't make any sense.

So Duke Rechant is magically resurrected every few minutes so another Vestige can decide to kill him or not? He has already been killed thousands of times? how do you possibly fit that in to the larger TES lore story? I don't think you can without help.

How about all those Daedric Anchors? You destroyed Molag Bal's Planar Vortex and defeated him yet Molag Bal can still drop Daedric Anchors and try to pull Nirn into Coldharbor despite the Soul Burst being over? That would be like Oblivion Gates still opening despite defeating Dagon and resealing the Oblivion Barriers, it wouldn't make any sense.

This is not a little bit of wiggle room, these are plot holes the size of the grand canyon that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever on their own in the whole Tamrelic lore.

How about Cyrodiil? At the time ESO takes Place Cyrodiil is a jungle, its not transformed into what it is as depicted in ESO and Oblivion until Talos achieves CHIM and uses "The Voice" in conjunction with it to shout Cyrodiil into what it looks like in ESO(most likely his CHIM + Shout was able to effect WGT getting it to transform Cyrodiil)...problem is Talos isn't even born yet...I have tried to rationalize this as Talos change being "retroactive" across the timeline, but there is no evidence of this being the case. I also came to this conclusion before the release of IC. The fact the Daedra in Imperial City are chipping away the White Gold Tower during the events of ESO has obviously weakened the strength of the tower to some degree during this time frame which makes the retroactive theory not really fit due to WGT being significantly weakened during this time frame.

CHIM is the "Syllable of Royalty"

"Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.'"

ZOS putting Cyrodiil into ESO in its current form(Not a Jungle and looking like its Oblivion counterpart) is spitting on the divinity of Talos and trying to erase the fact that Talos not only ascended to God Hood, but also achieved CHIM. Talos changing Cyrodiil is the ONLY real direct evidence that Talos achieved CHIM and God Hood and ZOS has literally erased it from the lore in ESO.

We know for a fact Talos Ascended because The Blood of Tiber Septim was used to open a portal to Mankar Cameron's plane of Oblivion(A pocket of the Deadlands) that required the Blood of a Daedra(an artifact) and the Blood of a Divine(Found on Tiber's Armor) in order to open the way, so that proves without a doubt that Talos became a god, yet ESO is trying to erase that fact with their depiction of Cyrodiil.

What's even more disappointing is that the "Cyrodiil is jungle" bit isn't some obscure bit of trivia from Daggerfall back in the '90's. There was an NPC in the main city in Skyrim literally SCREAMING about it. In the most recent single player game released.

the Stormcloaks, The Blades, and The Order of Talos would have BIG issues with the way ZOS has rendered Cyrodiil in ESO

If folks don't want to accept the Dragon Break theory, then ZOS is going to have to come up with some other plot device to reconcile these inconsistencies and contradictions. The loss of history, being very real, is not an excuse for a story told that makes no sense from the perspective its told from, as well as a depiction of Cyrodiil existing that won't exist until Talos who hasn't been born yet changes it into that .

These are very real issues with the story that need to be addressed.

Ok first I did not say there weren't ANY records or that none survived, I said a time period that wasn't fully fleshed out.

Second, Duke Renchant and the anchors are still game mechanics because this is an mmo and we all share the same world. So even though in my individual story I have stopped the planmeld and defeated Molag Bals plans others in the game have not. Think about it for a minute. How big of an instancing nightmare would it be if the game separated people based on how far they had advanced in the main story? Remember Craglorn? When you couldn't group with people who were ahead of your or behind you in the story. That was one zone and it was really frustrating. People did not like it. Now imagine if the game instanced everyone who finished the main quest from those that had not. It would un-expand everything One Tamriel did. The story is told from a single player perspective and those parts of the story are now a part of the lore, but the Vestige destroyed 520 anchors before getting the purple ring they were searching for isn't going to make it into the lore!


Finally Cyrodiil. Now you are getting somewhere Why isn't Cyrodiil a jungle right now is a very good question!

There was a thread a long while ago that started out talking about how the Imperial City in ESO is misaligned. There was speculation that the anchors and the planmeld had turned the Wheel. I wish I could remember the name of that thread! @Nestor and @Enodoc do either of you remember that thread?

Iccotak

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

You guys do know that the Loremasters already said that this is canon content in the main timeline right?

A Dragon Break doesn't make it non-canon though, it does the opposite. It allows multiple possible outcomes to all be canon (See the ending of TES2:Daggerfall)

As i said, i'd just like to see them add to the lore to explain the inconsistencies and contradictions while continuing to add to the story that makes The Elder Scrolls.It will make the story overall more deeper while still keeping an air of mystery about some of the finer details

My point is that this is not a Dragon Break. ZOS never stated that this is a dragon break.
All the players being chosen one aside, the events of this game are part of the main timeline.
They are not in some alternate Timeline.

Osteos

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Its also perfectly fine to disagree, the post is meant to be thought provoking.

TES Lore leaves a lot to ambiguity and interpretation. This is done intentionally.

Addressing the issues raised leaves us all with a mound of clay that can molded thousands of different ways, keeping that mystery and alure that makes TES unique.

Agreed! I thank you for this thread it is a most welcome distraction

DaveMoeDee

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Very good point about this being during a Dragon Break and it would be able to explain all of the "Vestiges" that are running around. ...

I don't buy it.

The multiple Vestiges can trade gear and be in a guild together. They can group up and level faster. They can steal kills. They can duel. They can kill the same named boss over and over again. How does a Dragon Break help with that?

Does a Dragon Break also explain why the vestiges can't crawl? Or why the vestiges can't throw a dagger? Or why they get thrown off their mounts when they enter certain covered areas where the mount fits fine? Or why they can see themselves in the 3rd person and see in the opposite direction they are facing or why there are invisible walls?

OtarTheMad

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Very good point about this being during a Dragon Break and it would be able to explain all of the "Vestiges" that are running around. ...

I don't buy it.

The multiple Vestiges can trade gear and be in a guild together. They can group up and level faster. They can steal kills. They can duel. They can kill the same named boss over and over again. How does a Dragon Break help with that?

Does a Dragon Break also explain why the vestiges can't crawl? Or why the vestiges can't throw a dagger? Or why they get thrown off their mounts when they enter certain covered areas where the mount fits fine? Or why they can see themselves in the 3rd person and see in the opposite direction they are facing or why there are invisible walls?

In a Dragon Break anything can happen, mostly. For instance this is from the Middle Dawn Dragon Break where The Alessian Order tried to take parts of Elven Auriel from Imperial Akatosh:

"Every culture on Tamriel remembers the Middle Dawn in some fashion, mostly as a time of unaccountable spiritual anguish. Several texts survive this timeless period, all (unsurprisingly) conflicting with each other regarding events, people, and regions. Some say certain wars happened, some say the gods walked, and some assign a certain color to the sun. But almost always, sources seemed to contradict each other. Whether or not the secret masters of the Marukhati Selective were successful is unknown, and any records of their survival were destroyed by the War of Righteousness that ended the Alessian Order a hundred years later. The only thing all cultures consistently agree upon is that, one by one, eight stars fell from the sky." (Quote taken from UESP.net)

Basically some weird stuff happened during this 1,000+ year Dragon Break and so who is to say that some weird stuff didn't happen during the one we play in now.

Shardan4968

This is not problem that thousands of Vestiges are doing same quests with different endings.
In Skyrim you had choice to destroy Dark Brotherhood or join them. So in books in TES 6 you won't read anything about Dovahkiin in Dark Brotherhood. It's not Dragon Break, because you are the one who create the story of your character.
In ESO you are the chosen one and you won't see multiple Prophets and you are the one who will destroy Molag Bal. You need to learn more about Dragon Break.
But of course, Lawrence Schick don't respect lore, for example I found today a lorebook written by Hermina Cinna the character who was born in third era, good job!

Tasear

Sounds like a conspiracy from one of lore makers in game

Still sounds really cool and interesting, the world is so alive. Mind you being an historian would be hard here.

RinaldoGandolphi

Iccotak wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

You guys do know that the Loremasters already said that this is canon content in the main timeline right?

A Dragon Break doesn't make it non-canon though, it does the opposite. It allows multiple possible outcomes to all be canon (See the ending of TES2:Daggerfall)

As i said, i'd just like to see them add to the lore to explain the inconsistencies and contradictions while continuing to add to the story that makes The Elder Scrolls.It will make the story overall more deeper while still keeping an air of mystery about some of the finer details

My point is that this is not a Dragon Break. ZOS never stated that this is a dragon break.
All the players being chosen one aside, the events of this game are part of the main timeline.
They are not in some alternate Timeline.

It would make no sense to declare it a Dragon Break "right now". The game and its entire story is far from being over. The whole idea of it being a Dragon Break is still in the "theoretical stages". there are many factors that point in that direction, but nothing is definitive yet. Nothing will be definitive until ESO story is finished.

If the game devs are smart, they will either weave in little bits and piece here and there to vaguely explain some inconsistencies, or they will say absolutely nothing and continue on course leaving it to Bethesda to later write an in-game book in a future game declaring ESO a Dragon Break or some other phenomina but even that book won't be definitive and it will be purely up to the reader interpretation.

Some say the Arcturian Heresey is a lie, others say its the truth...we have two books of the same event of his fight with the Akaviri Demon that contradict each other...one written 10 years after the event(Joruun the Skald King), the other by Wulfharth himself(the Arcturain Heresy) that each contradict each other. which one is true? We will probably never know the whole truth...and im good with that..i like the mystery.

RinaldoGandolphi

Shardan4968 wrote: »

This is not problem that thousands of Vestiges are doing same quests with different endings.
In Skyrim you had choice to destroy Dark Brotherhood or join them. So in books in TES 6 you won't read anything about Dovahkiin in Dark Brotherhood. It's not Dragon Break, because you are the one who create the story of your character.
In ESO you are the chosen one and you won't see multiple Prophets and you are the one who will destroy Molag Bal. You need to learn more about Dragon Break.
But of course, Lawrence Schick don't respect lore, for example I found today a lorebook written by Hermina Cinna the character who was born in third era, good job!

Well to be fair, the ONLY thing that is canon in the single player games is the main quest.

The Guild quests always assume "Someone" became the new Listener, Guildmaster, etc...not necessarily the hero. This is sorta convied and why the main Hero of each of the games seems to fade into obscurity, or take an expedition to Akavir(Neverarine) and not be heard from anymore.

Elsonso

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

As a long time TES fan, especially the lore, Having none of ESO impact TES6 would be irritatingly stupid.

Agreed

The nice thing about a Dragon Break is it ends up rectifying all the contradictions and inconsistencies and thus they become part of the series lore(Just like all 6 of Daggerfall's endings all became canon) and thus can be included in future stories in the series. (a Dragon break NEVER erases anything from the timeline, to contrary a Break ends up cementing it to the timeline, thus you end up having a more fleshed out story because multiple outcomes all become true. the presence of Alduin in Skyrim would not have been possible without a Dragon Break)

I would like to see bits and pieces of ESO story in future games going forward. There is a lot of this story to like. If they don't want to go the route of a break, then they simply need to add to the story in a way that explains these inconsistencies. They done it with the books that haven't been written yet in the game, I don't see any reason why they couldn't add to the story to explain these things if they don't want to go the break route.

I'd be happy with anything they put in the game that makes all these things make sense. New lore is preferable, its the mystery that makes TES series stories so interesting!

It is quite possible that this thread is taking the Lore much further than anything that ZOS or BGS is going to be doing.

While the Dragonbreak could explain things, I don't expect BGS or ZOS to really address it. ESO is not doing anything that BGS cannot simply explain by including select ESO books in TES 6, or by simply ignoring inconvenient lore from ESO, or any previous game. TES 6 will be 4th Era. ESO is 2nd Era. There will be a thousand years of "who cares what happened" between ESO and TES 6.

I think that a Dragon Break as a time line reset is a cop-out. It is too neat and tidy, and therefore not interesting. I would expect that professional writers can come up with something better. That is why they get to have all the fun.

Besides, unless the Numidium appears, I think we are safe.