People who queue for (vet) dungeons without speaking English...

Magdalina

...what do you think of them?

Now in before the...critical thinking I might get for this, English is not actually my first language. But I'd like to believe I speak it quite well. There was a time when I did not, and at that time I wouldn't dream of joining a teamwork-requiring activity without being able to communicate with said team whatsoever.

I understand there're a lot of languages in the world and that for some people learning different languages really doesn't come easy. I realize it's not fair for those people to be cut out of a game they want to play simply because it has been released in a language they don't know. What I don't understand is why those people would queue for challenging group activities with randoms and assume it fine. There're a lot of language-specific guilds that they could join/start and run with people who would understand them, at least until they understand the mechanics perfectly. If they are from a land so distant almost no one there plays ESO, it really sucks but they should probably refrain from grouping until they get some grasp on English at least. Or if they do fill a dying urge to pug a vet dungeon without understanding a word of what's going on, maybe they should at the very least warn their teams at the start rather than assume everyone is fine carrying someone who won't be able to follow a single instruction. Google translating "sorry I don't speak English" isn't that hard in any language.

It annoys the hell out of me. Maybe it's bad of me but omg...I'm fine carrying lowbies, fine wiping along inexperienced players for hours - long as we're communicating. But this...

Just today I queued for healer/dps roles and there's someone else in the group also queued as healer/dps. Groupfinder assigns healer role to me and frankly I'd prefer it that way. Me:"So I heal then?" Silence. Okay. We move on and they proceed to spam Mutagen the entire trash pull. Me:"So who's healing?" Silence, more Mutagen on next pull. Me:"Okay, lemme swap to dps then. XXX, you have Drain right?" Silence. No, they obviously don't have Drain(nor do they have Spc, Orbs, Worm, Warhorn or Prayer, all of which I personally did bother to get before queueing as a healer for vWGT) so I slot one of my own and we proceed. Fortunately everyone else knows what to do and even the silent "healer" does apear to have some clue about mechanics so we proceed to Planar. We stop and talk it over in groupchat, deciding to burn her with tank holding her til blue phase. Of course, the "healer" grabs the pinion as soon as it opens, after which tank lucks out on 2 portal stages in a row and we wipe. "Please don't close the pinion til blue stage" - silence. We try again, "healer" takes it again and we wipe again. This time they actually speak up in broken English "why no take ball in the middle, plz take ball" and we all go "no, bad ball/no take ball/only take blue ball" all over again and this time it finally seems to make it through for they leave it alone and we make it.

We made it, even hm, eventually, but oh my god. I'm super patient with pugs usually but lack of communication just drives me mad. Had another one, also in WGT, who didn't seem to know you gotta close portals on Planar whatsoever. We tried to tell him/her in whatever simple ways we could but they simply never closed them. They also never ressed for some reason(though heals were decent). I asked if they needed soulgems but they didn't answer. We asked them if they spoke English at all but they never answered. We gave up and disbanded the group and THEN they spoke up saying "sorry I don't speak English well". No ****, you don't, then why did you queue for this? And why didn't you tell us at the start? Or even at any of the points when we were asking you?

Another time we had a lowbie dps - I don't actually know if they didn't speak English or just had something religiously against using groupchat but I can only assume they didn't speak English as they didn't even comment on "kick him?" talk going on in the chat - with really low dps and surviveability who kept hitting the scroll on Kena in vWGT. It was obvious we were not gonna make it after first try when both dps died within 10 seconds and then wouldn't stay up for more than a few seconds before dying again, but they hit the scroll again. And then again. And again.
"Let's just do normal - *silence, scroll*"
"We can't make it, let's do non hm - *silence, scroll*"
"Stop hitting the scroll - *silence, scroll*"
"YYY, why are you hitting the scroll? - *silent*"
"YYY, do you speak English? - *silent, kicked* "

/facepalm

I just so don't understand people sometimes. Anyway, for the sake of this not just being a rant...what do you think about/do with people who don't speak English in your group?

ShedsHisTail

Most PuGs don't talk to each other anyway beyond saying "hello" at the beginning.
So no big deal what language they speak as long as they know, "hi."

Magdalina

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Most PuGs don't talk to each other anyway beyond saying "hello" at the beginning.
So no big deal what language they speak as long as they know, "hi."

That doesn't work very well if a dungeon requires any strategy at all. See dlc dungeons. It can also well be an issue in other vet dungeons though - not popping altars on Malubeth, standing in the globe of protection on Vila Theran, not focusing the chaining ads on Gamyne, killing Daedroth on Rilis/students on Nerien'eth...

Nestor

If the other player is pulling their own and handling their job, they can speak Martian for all I care.


If the other player is needing help, then I do what I can to help them, and the 3 or 4 times I did this, it all worked out. Fortunately, we were with others who were patient (mostly from my guild, we pugged the 3rd and or 4th in these cases). We got our point across and it all worked out.


However, if they are being a tool and running ahead of the group or not doing their role that they qued for or not paying attention to mechanics and won't take patient advice, I don't care if they can embarrass me with their eloquence of the English Language, they are getting kicked from the group.

Oakmontowls_ESO

The worst part is when they invariably get the bis drop that you need but you can't communicate to ask them for it. I had this happen with a scathing mage drop and luckily I managed to use Google translate to buy it from them.

ShedsHisTail

Magdalina wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Most PuGs don't talk to each other anyway beyond saying "hello" at the beginning.
So no big deal what language they speak as long as they know, "hi."

That doesn't work very well if a dungeon requires any strategy at all. See dlc dungeons. It can also well be an issue in other vet dungeons though - not popping altars on Malubeth, standing in the globe of protection on Vila Theran, not focusing the chaining ads on Gamyne, killing Daedroth on Rilis/students on Nerien'eth...

That's true, but that doesn't change anything.
A group of English-speakers not talking to one another is just as bad as a group of people who don't speak the same language.

The problem is a lack of knowledge of mechanics, and an unwillingness to communicate.

If you've got someone who doesn't know the fights, isn't pulling their weight or being otherwise problematic; well, there's a kick feature for a reason and everyone understands that message.

Lavennin

It's not so much about people not speaking English but people not talking at all. My mom doesn't speak English, but she at least says thanks and hi, and stays away from hard dungeons unless I'm in her group.

I've been in countless silent PUGs and always find it funny. Four strangers fight through a deadly dungeon not saying a word, avoiding eye contact, etc. Must be really awkward IRL.

ShedsHisTail

Honestly, to me, if I'm PuGing, I'm going into it with the fore-knowledge that it could very well be a disaster. It's a choice I'm making. It's a gamble, with my time as the ante.

If I want a nice smooth run, I'm gonna round up some friends. Not PuG. Complaining that you got a bad PuG group is like complaining that you got a bad deal at the card table. If it's really so bad, you can fold anytime you want.

Smmokkee

I say nothing the whole time besides "giv me yer loot."

Magdalina

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Honestly, to me, if I'm PuGing, I'm going into it with the fore-knowledge that it could very well be a disaster. It's a choice I'm making. It's a gamble, with my time as the ante.

If I want a nice smooth run, I'm gonna round up some friends. Not PuG. Complaining that you got a bad PuG group is like complaining that you got a bad deal at the card table. If it's really so bad, you can fold anytime you want.

I'm not complaining about people who are underperforming in this case, I'm complaining about people who engage in team activity without being able to communicate with the team whatsoever. And yes, I pug for lulz, not completions, but stuff like this is still extremely frustrating.

rotaugen454

Que?

DeadlyRecluse

If I'm pugging, I'm planning to solo. If I get communicative, capable teammates, great!

Tasear

Hmm this hard one. I respect those learning a second language as I would myself in the same position, but if you are in group content you shouldn't be 100% using google translate to play the game with others especially the veteran dugeons.

jlboozer

Really no need to speak in vet dungeons, I rarely unmute my mic and do fine...if you need instructions your group probably won't finish anyway, normal dungeons are for learning mechanics.

ShedsHisTail

Magdalina wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Honestly, to me, if I'm PuGing, I'm going into it with the fore-knowledge that it could very well be a disaster. It's a choice I'm making. It's a gamble, with my time as the ante.

If I want a nice smooth run, I'm gonna round up some friends. Not PuG. Complaining that you got a bad PuG group is like complaining that you got a bad deal at the card table. If it's really so bad, you can fold anytime you want.

I'm not complaining about people who are underperforming in this case, I'm complaining about people who engage in team activity without being able to communicate with the team whatsoever. And yes, I pug for lulz, not completions, but stuff like this is still extremely frustrating.

They probably feel the same about being grouped up with people who only speak English.

That said, you -are- complaining about people under-performing, albeit indirectly. If this non-English speaking person was doing their job competently you'd have no need to converse with them or explain mechanics. In my experience, about the only time PuG groups bother to talk to one another is when someone isn't pulling their weight. For all you know, 90% of the -good- groups you run with have players who don't speak English and you never even know it.

Surak73

Just a tip: don't queue for multiple roles. It only adds more confusion to a situation which is not already - hem... - optimal.

Anne_Firehawk

That person could create the same thread, same title, same text, moaning that you don't speak said persons language. Come on ...

The_Conjurer

This this happens to me! Yes it's a teamwork activity, so if they can't communicate, it is much more difficult on a hard mod.
I had a warden that queued for tank do this once, speced as heal/dps and wearing robes witha staff. Not bad because I was able to carry us seeing it was a normal, but talk about irritating when you cant butch them out for only wanting instant queues just to bring the whole group down while they can't even read what youre saying.

Shardan4968

I have friend from Great Britain, who switched to NA server, because people there are speaking in his language.
This is another proof that ZO$ is hating EU players, only because we are different! :'(

SleepyTroll

Pull out Ye olde google translate right quick and get to translating.

Reverb

Language proficiency is largely irrelevant here. Most dungeon pugs don't communicate and do just fine, even vet versions and HM most of the time.

When the team struggles on performance or mechanics, the steps should be exactly what you described: communicate, question, explain, assist. If people don't respond, or do respond but still don't improve (Because some people will say "ok" then go right back to standing in red or whatever) then vote to kick. This is true regardless of player's language.

Magdalina

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

That person could create the same thread, same title, same text, moaning that you don't speak said persons language. Come on ...

Yeah they could - if I was engaging in a team activity in a game made in their language, then repeatedly causing group failure due to being unable to communicate.

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Honestly, to me, if I'm PuGing, I'm going into it with the fore-knowledge that it could very well be a disaster. It's a choice I'm making. It's a gamble, with my time as the ante.

If I want a nice smooth run, I'm gonna round up some friends. Not PuG. Complaining that you got a bad PuG group is like complaining that you got a bad deal at the card table. If it's really so bad, you can fold anytime you want.

I'm not complaining about people who are underperforming in this case, I'm complaining about people who engage in team activity without being able to communicate with the team whatsoever. And yes, I pug for lulz, not completions, but stuff like this is still extremely frustrating.

They probably feel the same about being grouped up with people who only speak English.

That said, you -are- complaining about people under-performing, albeit indirectly. If this non-English speaking person was doing their job competently you'd have no need to converse with them or explain mechanics. In my experience, about the only time PuG groups bother to talk to one another is when someone isn't pulling their weight. For all you know, 90% of the -good- groups you run with have players who don't speak English and you never even know it.

True. However, thing is I don't mind underperforming people much as long as they're willing to communicate and try to improve. I have literally wiped for 4+ hours in dlc dungeons with baby pugs before because they were willing to work for it and I thought it worth it. We had to adjust strat to lower dps/surviveability(=talk it over in groupchat) but we were able to make it eventually in those times, and I don't feel it was time wasted.

Basically for a vet dungeon (especially dlc ones) you either gotta be perfect enough that lack of communication really doesn't matter or you gotta be able to communicate in order to overcome the issues. I don't like the idea of someone absolutely not speaking English in dlc dungeons at all because even if they are good other people we end up with might be not and we will need to talk over the strat which they won't be able to.

ArchMikem

If everyone in my group knows what to do for their role, not much of any communication is needed. But otherwise I personally luck out, considering I play North American and I've never encountered someone that doesn't speak English.

vamp_emily

.

Tandor

Magdalina wrote: »

And yes, I pug for lulz

Ah, so you don't speak English either? Now I can see why there's a problem, when no-one in the group speaks English !

MLGProPlayer

English isn't the official language of the world.

Besides, what do you need to communicate in a PUG for? I usually have chat tabbed to a guild while I'm in dungeon anyway.

If a player isn't responding, it probably means they're in another tab. If they don't know the mechanics and don't respond, kick them. Let's not make this about language proficiency. This may be Trump's America now, but we don't have to all think like him.

Idinuse

Que?

Franieck

Отличная точка. Люди, которые не говорят по-английски, действительно тоже меня разозлили!

Anunakis

i dont do things with PUG rarely they are aware what are they doing , mostly like runing dungeon with npc , if you go with pug dont expect anything great , do normal dungeons or look for guild

lolo_01b16_ESO

Magdalina wrote: »

Anyway, for the sake of this not just being a rant...what do you think about/do with people who don't speak English in your group?

If they don't speak English, I try to communicate in one of the other official eso languages with them (German / French) or just carry on without talking.

btw. I'm pretty sure that German is the most common native language on the EU server, so if you want to set up a mandatory language for the groupfinder there, it should be German

Anunakis

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Anyway, for the sake of this not just being a rant...what do you think about/do with people who don't speak English in your group?

If they don't speak English, I try to communicate in one of the other official eso languages with them (German / French) or just carry on without talking.

btw. I'm pretty sure that German is the most common native language on the EU server, so if you want to set up a mandatory language for the groupfinder there, it should be German

and i'm sure the most common language is polish but we use ts3 or discord to comunicate not chats