Bow should not have light attacks and no auto shooting.

Khedrakb14_ESO

I do archery competition and hunt with a bow up here in WI and seeing a bow with auto attacks and light attacks is ridiculous. Now I can randomly shoot arrows fast but with less accuracy and i can also take the time to aim with higher accuracy. Both still impact the target with the same amount of velocity and force. No matter how you shoot a bow it's always one type of attack. There is no light attack, medium or heavy attack. The instant an arrow is released from the bow-string, it is at its maximum velocity, there for can not have a light vs heavy attack. It’ll also hit the target with the same amount of force. Nor can I push a button and the bow keep firing like a machinegun.

I play a wood elf nightblade Archer (Pure Archer) no other weapon abilities slotted but the bow abilities. I also never used a light attack and always drew it back fully and released when I thought was the best time. The animation also looked good before and now it just looks horrible. I did always thought the bow skill line was a bit week though and needed more, but at least it felt right and I enjoyed playing it. Now they changed the bow and its abilities and now it just completely sucks. I do not enjoy it anymore. WTF is with the auto shoot? I HATE IT. A bow does NOT just auto shoot like that, you draw it back and release when you are ready! It's not a machinegun. I liked being able to hold the shot and I knew when to release. I didn't need the game to think or do the work for me. Like when I'm about to hit a boss in a dungeon. I want to carefully line up my shot, draw back the bowstring, and wait for the right moment to release. It felt right and was fun that way. Then they ruined that, and now it's no longer enjoyable.

This auto attack does NOT feel right, I can not play like this. It now feels like a hunter in World of Warcraft with it’s auto attack. How wrong is that.

A Bow in ESO should just have one attack (let's just call it normal attack) and no auto shoot. Plus the bow skills. For sustainability they should have looked to the other skills.

I sure hope they come to their senses and change it back!

k9mouse

You have a sit down talk with your character and tell him or her NOT to release the arrow until you release the mouse button.

AcadianPaladin

My understanding is that the devs realized that heavy attacks would grow in importance for sustain purposes and they wanted to 'help' bow shooters make sure they could easily get a full heavy attack as quickly as possible. I have mixed feelings about it but must say that I, like the OP, prefer the older way of manually releasing. It helps coordinate one of the few things and archer has - control over a solid opening sequence.

My suggestion is for the devs to return it the way it was or at least provide a setting options for auto vs manual bow heavy attack release. For what it is worth, arrow release timing was fully controlled by the player in Oblivion and Skyrim, so auto releasing arrows is a pretty dramatic departure from ES practice and tradition.

Arenguros

Game mechanics > Animations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Real Life

Please come back when you can aim some shot at an enemy and then magically a hundred arrows come raining down while you keep doing other things.
Please come back when you can shoot a bunch of arrows in different directions - also without aiming/charging.
Please come back when you can shoot for hours without actually having to pick up any arrows or poisons for that matter, that you're coating half your arrows with.

Khedrakb14_ESO wrote: »

It's not a machinegun.

You have seen the Rapid Fire animation?

Yes I would also have prefered if there was a toggle in the options where players can choose between hold and auto-fire, preferable for all weapons.
But the reason for this isn't some RL arguments, but sneaking gameplay and PvP.

BlackSparrow

As someone else who does archery irl, I'll agree that having the bow autoshoot really messes up the standard archery rhythm... but that doesn't mean I don't get why they changed it. IIRC, Bow was the only weapon that didn't auto-fire its heavy attack when fully charged, so they changed it to make it more in line with the other weapons. Same for the light/heavy attack thing. It's a game, and gameplay trumps realism.

Can you imagine if ESO combat was realistic, even not counting magic? Just wearing heavy armor would sap fatigue and slow you down, and blocking anything bigger than a dagger would seriously wear down your weapons. You'd have to account for the different ranges of different melee weapons, and let's throw in having to mirco-manage every arrow, too. Some of these things are in other RPGs, but adding them or not is a choice, and ZOS went with "not" to keep the combat system streamlined.

It took a little adjusting, but I took my ESO archer for a spin and figured out the new rhythm. It just takes some practice to build up new patterns. Yeah, it's less like shooting irl, now, but there's not much we can do except either roll with the punches or throw in the towel.

Pops_ND_Irish

Thought this was a game ?

Sigtric

I agree with the auto attack statement but otherwise you have no idea what you're talking about.

Any form of stick bow (long, short, recurve, NOT compound) can indeed be shot with accuracy at different "velocities" depending on how far the string is drawn.

A longbow with a pull of 50lbs at a 28" draw length will shoot slower and with less kinetic force than the same exact bow shot by someone who pulls it to 30“. The increased tension on the string results in a higher speed of arrow flight as most bows average somewhere between 2 and 3 extra pounds of draw weight per inch.

This does not happen on compound bows because of the stops on the wheels/cams that keep you from overdrawing, resulting in consistent FPS numbers.

BlackSparrow

Sigtric wrote: »

I agree with the auto attack statement but otherwise you have no idea what you're talking about.

Any form of stick bow (long, short, recurve, NOT compound) can indeed be shot with accuracy at different "velocities" depending on how far the string is drawn.

A longbow with a pull of 50lbs at a 28" draw length will shoot slower and with less kinetic force than the same exact bow shot by someone who pulls it to 30“. The increased tension on the string results in a higher speed of arrow flight as most bows average somewhere between 2 and 3 extra pounds of draw weight per inch.

This does not happen on compound bows because of the stops on the wheels/cams that keep you from overdrawing, resulting in consistent FPS numbers.

Though it stands to point out that if it's the same person alternating between underdrawing and overdrawing it, that's probably going to mess with their accuracy, big time. Unless they're specifically practicing at drawing to different anchor points for some reason. Which I'm not sure why someone would do that, when just honing in on the one is more than enough for most archers. *shrug*

Doesn't really invalidate your point, though. I know someone who has taken on really long-range shoots with kids' bows, just to prove the exact thing you're talking about.

STEVIL

Arenguros wrote: »

Game mechanics > Animations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Real Life

Please come back when you can aim some shot at an enemy and then magically a hundred arrows come raining down while you keep doing other things.
Please come back when you can shoot a bunch of arrows in different directions - also without aiming/charging.
Please come back when you can shoot for hours without actually having to pick up any arrows or poisons for that matter, that you're coating half your arrows with.

Khedrakb14_ESO wrote: »

It's not a machinegun.

You have seen the Rapid Fire animation?

Yes I would also have prefered if there was a toggle in the options where players can choose between hold and auto-fire, preferable for all weapons.
But the reason for this isn't some RL arguments, but sneaking gameplay and PvP.

Exactly!!!

The issue is not that bows magically IRl can hold before shooting but lets face it, so can every weapon that has an IRl counterpart. No reason i could not rewar back with my greatsword or turn out both blades in my dual wield ready for a sudden fully drawn back swing - aka like the heavy attack animations show.

So, in spite of the laments of the "IRL Bow" crowd the issues of "IRL poise" for bows are no different than for the other weapons.

They also keep choosing to ignore that IRl a drawn and held bow does not do more damage than a draw and released bow shot does. So, really the bow does not have a heavy attack that does more damage IRL. So IRL is only applied selectively when it is a good thing.

it almost makes one think the underlying problem may be the loss of the ability to keep a fully loaded hvy attack ready for instant release at the first sign of a target advantage?

But i also favor a combat setting toggle for "auto-release of heavy attacks" set by default to on but applying to all weapons. That way, when the IRL Bow-ESO-ers get slammed by an insta-release inferno heavy attack they as they release their insta-release bow heavy attacks, they can know they just did it to themselves.

Sigtric

BlackSparrow wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

I agree with the auto attack statement but otherwise you have no idea what you're talking about.

Any form of stick bow (long, short, recurve, NOT compound) can indeed be shot with accuracy at different "velocities" depending on how far the string is drawn.

A longbow with a pull of 50lbs at a 28" draw length will shoot slower and with less kinetic force than the same exact bow shot by someone who pulls it to 30“. The increased tension on the string results in a higher speed of arrow flight as most bows average somewhere between 2 and 3 extra pounds of draw weight per inch.

This does not happen on compound bows because of the stops on the wheels/cams that keep you from overdrawing, resulting in consistent FPS numbers.

Though it stands to point out that if it's the same person alternating between underdrawing and overdrawing it, that's probably going to mess with their accuracy, big time. Unless they're specifically practicing at drawing to different anchor points for some reason. Which I'm not sure why someone would do that, when just honing in on the one is more than enough for most archers. *shrug*

Doesn't really invalidate your point, though. I know someone who has taken on really long-range shoots with kids' bows, just to prove the exact thing you're talking about.

Yep. An archer can be accurate at multiple anchor points with a traditional bow if they practice for it, most would have no need to do so. However back when it was a weapon of war, things like shooting down from a wall/ramparts, shooting from horse back, etc, would slightly change anchors and thusly would affect the tension put on the string.


And as you mention overdraw is a technique used for pulling off some longer shots. I've seen under drawn used for trick shots too, very accurately.

petikozmyeb17_ESO

Look. I get what you're trying to say. Partly, you are right. But the same goes for every single weapon in the game. It doesn't work like that irl. But you can't apply real life logic to games. For 2 reasons: looks, balancing. First of all, it doesn't look cool. If they were to change it to be realistic, maybe archery would still be decent, but what about melee combat? Fencing doesn't look cool at all. Its quick, small movements. Not big, cool looking swings. Balancing... which is an even bigger issue. If they were to remove basic attacks, and you could only use "abilities". They'd need to hit hard to compensate for it. Which means at least double damage. Would it be fun to get oneshot by archers? No. The point is, realistic is not fun.

Gargath

Light and heavy attacks should use real arrows from quiver, that are craftable and tradeable like in Skyrim. I don't like actual idea with limitless amount of arrows.

Arenguros

Gargath wrote: »

Light and heavy attacks should use real arrows from quiver, that are craftable and tradeable like in Skyrim. I don't like actual idea with limitless amount of arrows.

Oh yeah, I remember how fun this was back in WoW when you still had to manage arrows.
It added so much depth to the game ... not.
It just meant you always wasted 10 or more inventory slots on arrows and nothing more.

Games aren't realistic and MMOs are the least realistic.
It starts with everyone being "the chosen one" and ends with players killing the same threats over and over again.
Don't even start how you can prepare a feast in a few seconds...

BlanketFort

It's a game. It's also not realistic to ignite the molten lava in your veins, or calling down a fragment of the sun to the ground, or charging your fists with the power of the storm, and a bunch of other cool sci-fi abilities.

O_LYKOS

Light attacks on a bow don't feel right but you're ok with magic fire balls shooting out the end of a stick?

ok.

STEVIL

O_LYKOS wrote: »

Light attacks on a bow don't feel right but you're ok with magic fire balls shooting out the end of a stick?

ok.

Depends on what i have been drinking.

SirDopey

Ok - So your Roleplaying has been busted with this patch.

For all serious gamers though these changes are for the better ( no bow bow builds are serious)

olsborg

Bow doesnt rly need a nerf, needs a buff tbh.

notimetocare

As someone who has done archery for more than 20 years, I dont care? lol

As soon as that is the strangest, most unrealistic, thing we can do in a game I will cate