The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
How Morrowind Broke Impale (and likely other % skills) - Numbers Included
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kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
I completely understand. You are the one that isn't comprehending. Please explain to me how something that says "this will do X" but then does Y isn't false advertising. A game that doesn't properly convey skill effects is a poorly designed game.
That's because "X" (raw value based on stats) You see on tooltip is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses like CP's , minor berserk , flame staff etc so tooltip value You see is not in fact "X" but already an Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X and in execute range Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...+300%)*X . That's why without CP's , minor berserk and flame staff You have 300% because it's Y=X+300%*X .
You would want to see raw value always without seeing how percentage buffs affected tooltip ? Then I assume we would see many threads that CP's , minor berserk etc are bugged because You dont see tooltip changes and people would be confussed because adding some buffs would not affect tooltips. Or maybe You would want to see descritpion under tooltip saying "more percentage buffs You already applied then lower that 300% tolltip value will be because it's underlie the formula" ? Or just tell what would You want to see ? Because as I mentioned earlier everything with caclucating this skill dmg is correct and matches formula.
And I tell You this right now formula like Y=[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X]+300%*[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X] wont happen.
I get what you are saying, but if the tool tip says something, then it should do what it says it does.
Maybe the easier solution would be if the developers just put the value the execute should hit at (i.e. instead of saying "Deals 300% more damage" in the tool tip say "Deals 9436 more damage").
Playing since beta...2 -
Elvenpath✭✭✭ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
I completely understand. You are the one that isn't comprehending. Please explain to me how something that says "this will do X" but then does Y isn't false advertising. A game that doesn't properly convey skill effects is a poorly designed game.
That's because "X" (raw value based on stats) You see on tooltip is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses like CP's , minor berserk , flame staff etc so tooltip value You see is not in fact "X" but already an Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X and in execute range Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...+300%)*X . That's why without CP's , minor berserk and flame staff You have 300% because it's Y=X+300%*X .
You would want to see raw value always without seeing how percentage buffs affected tooltip ? Then I assume we would see many threads that CP's , minor berserk etc are bugged because You dont see tooltip changes and people would be confussed because adding some buffs would not affect tooltips. Or maybe You would want to see descritpion under tooltip saying "more percentage buffs You already applied then lower that 300% tolltip value will be because it's underlie the formula" ? Or just tell what would You want to see ? Because as I mentioned earlier everything with caclucating this skill dmg is correct and matches formula.
And I tell You this right now formula like Y=[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X]+300%*[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X] wont happen.
I get what you are saying, but if the tool tip says something, then it should do what it says it does.
Maybe the easier solution would be if the developers just put the value the execute should hit at (i.e. instead of saying "Deals 300% more damage" in the tool tip say "Deals 9436 more damage").
Still but an execute skill should be hit harder than any other skills.3 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Don't tank
"In future content we will probably adjust this model somewhat (The BOP model). It's definitely nice to be able to find a cool item that you don't need and trade it to someone who can't wait to get their hands on it." - Wrobel0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
I completely understand. You are the one that isn't comprehending. Please explain to me how something that says "this will do X" but then does Y isn't false advertising. A game that doesn't properly convey skill effects is a poorly designed game.
That's because "X" (raw value based on stats) You see on tooltip is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses like CP's , minor berserk , flame staff etc so tooltip value You see is not in fact "X" but already an Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X and in execute range Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...+300%)*X . That's why without CP's , minor berserk and flame staff You have 300% because it's Y=X+300%*X .
You would want to see raw value always without seeing how percentage buffs affected tooltip ? Then I assume we would see many threads that CP's , minor berserk etc are bugged because You dont see tooltip changes and people would be confussed because adding some buffs would not affect tooltips. Or maybe You would want to see descritpion under tooltip saying "more percentage buffs You already applied then lower that 300% tolltip value will be because it's underlie the formula" ? Or just tell what would You want to see ? Because as I mentioned earlier everything with caclucating this skill dmg is correct and matches formula.
And I tell You this right now formula like Y=[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X]+300%*[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X] wont happen.
I get what you are saying, but if the tool tip says something, then it should do what it says it does.
Maybe the easier solution would be if the developers just put the value the execute should hit at (i.e. instead of saying "Deals 300% more damage" in the tool tip say "Deals 9436 more damage").
Still but an execute skill should be hit harder than any other skills.
It should hit harder than any other "spammable" skills.
Technically Impale does, and I also agree that it is not doing as much damage as it should, but my point is with the developers monkeying around with what it multiplicative and additive all the time it would be better to just give us the flat value, and then we can argue about what the flat value could be instead of getting stuck on 300%.
Playing since beta...1 -
Aisle9✭✭✭✭✭
✭ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
I completely understand. You are the one that isn't comprehending. Please explain to me how something that says "this will do X" but then does Y isn't false advertising. A game that doesn't properly convey skill effects is a poorly designed game.
That's because "X" (raw value based on stats) You see on tooltip is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses like CP's , minor berserk , flame staff etc so tooltip value You see is not in fact "X" but already an Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X and in execute range Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...+300%)*X . That's why without CP's , minor berserk and flame staff You have 300% because it's Y=X+300%*X .
You would want to see raw value always without seeing how percentage buffs affected tooltip ? Then I assume we would see many threads that CP's , minor berserk etc are bugged because You dont see tooltip changes and people would be confussed because adding some buffs would not affect tooltips. Or maybe You would want to see descritpion under tooltip saying "more percentage buffs You already applied then lower that 300% tolltip value will be because it's underlie the formula" ? Or just tell what would You want to see ? Because as I mentioned earlier everything with caclucating this skill dmg is correct and matches formula.
And I tell You this right now formula like Y=[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X]+300%*[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X] wont happen.
I get what you are saying, but if the tool tip says something, then it should do what it says it does.
Maybe the easier solution would be if the developers just put the value the execute should hit at (i.e. instead of saying "Deals 300% more damage" in the tool tip say "Deals 9436 more damage").
Still but an execute skill should be hit harder than any other skills.
It should hit harder than any other "spammable" skills.
Technically Impale does, and I also agree that it is not doing as much damage as it should, but my point is with the developers monkeying around with what it multiplicative and additive all the time it would be better to just give us the flat value, and then we can argue about what the flat value could be instead of getting stuck on 300%.
Inb4 nerf to spammables to make them hit less than the executes (._. )
Edited by Aisle9 on June 13, 2017 2:49PMArtemis Absinthe - DC magicka nightblade (PC - EU)
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"Dip dip potato chip, dip dip potato chip"2 -
Troneon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is always how ZOS NERF THINGS....
By making changes from % to flat numbers....
They nerfed loads of CP stuff over the past year or so like this...PC EU ADMaster Crafter - Anything you need!!High Elf Magicka Templar Healer/DPS/TankTrials / Dungeons / PVP / Everything0 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Considering the 1 second delay before it even hits and the further the target is the longer it takes, this post makes me think is impale even necessary then?
I'm taking from a PVP perspective and given that it can't hit through shields and it's time delay, it might as well not be used tbh.
I'll have to test and see but I'm now seriously considering to switch this for something else0 -
waitwhat✭✭✭✭✭@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
I completely understand. You are the one that isn't comprehending. Please explain to me how something that says "this will do X" but then does Y isn't false advertising. A game that doesn't properly convey skill effects is a poorly designed game.
That's because "X" (raw value based on stats) You see on tooltip is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses like CP's , minor berserk , flame staff etc so tooltip value You see is not in fact "X" but already an Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X and in execute range Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...+300%)*X . That's why without CP's , minor berserk and flame staff You have 300% because it's Y=X+300%*X .
You would want to see raw value always without seeing how percentage buffs affected tooltip ? Then I assume we would see many threads that CP's , minor berserk etc are bugged because You dont see tooltip changes and people would be confussed because adding some buffs would not affect tooltips. Or maybe You would want to see descritpion under tooltip saying "more percentage buffs You already applied then lower that 300% tolltip value will be because it's underlie the formula" ? Or just tell what would You want to see ? Because as I mentioned earlier everything with caclucating this skill dmg is correct and matches formula.
And I tell You this right now formula like Y=[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X]+300%*[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X] wont happen.
@Juhasow @LZH
I am of the mind that it should be doing 300% more damage calculated where 100% = tooltip value, regardless of the constituent calculations inherent in the tooltip value. That's certainly what it was doing before, and it makes sense that the 300% would be based off the damage the ability says it does at any given moment.
I'm still figuring out how exactly Killer's Blade was affected, and how much of it is my fault. Right my killer's blade has a tooltip of 3,841 and hits for about 14k non-crit. Values are definitely lower than what they were pre-Morrowind, but that's most likely me taking points out of Mighty.
What does surprise me is that it used to crit for 30-32k, and now I seem to be lucky to get to 26k. Have they changed how the modifier is applied in relation to crit damage?PS4 NA AD ScourgeVivec Loading Screen Simulator 2017
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"30s to eval"
"Read the ******* lorebook."0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
I completely understand. You are the one that isn't comprehending. Please explain to me how something that says "this will do X" but then does Y isn't false advertising. A game that doesn't properly convey skill effects is a poorly designed game.
That's because "X" (raw value based on stats) You see on tooltip is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses like CP's , minor berserk , flame staff etc so tooltip value You see is not in fact "X" but already an Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X and in execute range Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...+300%)*X . That's why without CP's , minor berserk and flame staff You have 300% because it's Y=X+300%*X .
You would want to see raw value always without seeing how percentage buffs affected tooltip ? Then I assume we would see many threads that CP's , minor berserk etc are bugged because You dont see tooltip changes and people would be confussed because adding some buffs would not affect tooltips. Or maybe You would want to see descritpion under tooltip saying "more percentage buffs You already applied then lower that 300% tolltip value will be because it's underlie the formula" ? Or just tell what would You want to see ? Because as I mentioned earlier everything with caclucating this skill dmg is correct and matches formula.
And I tell You this right now formula like Y=[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X]+300%*[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X] wont happen.
@Juhasow
I am of the mind that it should be doing 300% more damage calculated where 100% = tooltip value, regardless of the constituent calculations inherent in the tooltip value. That's certainly what it was doing before, and it makes sense that the 300% would be based off the damage the ability says it does at any given moment.
I'm still figuring out how exactly Killer's Blade was affected, and how much of it is my fault. Right my killer's blade has a tooltip of 3,841 and hits for about 14k non-crit. Values are definitely lower than what they were pre-Morrowind, but that's most likely me taking points out of Mighty.
What does surprise me is that it used to crit for 30-32k, and now I seem to be lucky to get to 26k. Have they changed how the modifier is applied in relation to crit damage?
Tooltip value is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses and 300% more dmg on execute range applies only to base dmg of skill which is lower then on tooltip if You have percentage bonuses already applied to it. Otherwise You would get 300% from minor berserk 8% , 300% from cp's bonuses etc
@waitwhat If You have tooltip 3841 with spended CP and applied minor berserk then never expect to see 15364.
About lower dmg of killers blade then pre Morrowind they changed things and now all percentage bonuses from Cp are additive instead of multiplicative that includes mighty , master at arms and precise strikes so Your killers blade crit dmg should be lower then before Morrowind.Edited by Juhasow on June 14, 2017 1:54AM1 -
lagrue✭✭✭✭✭
✭kyle.wilson wrote: »There seem to be a bunch of stealth nerfs lately that ZOS won't admit till massive amounts of players notice it.
Such as the pet regen nerf.
This one makes me sad as a pet user - I mean, I have health bars turned on - so I know when to fix it up - but all I've been seeing lately is other people's pets hinging on a single HP ready to die. Such a pointless nerf.PSN ID (NA only): Zuzu_With_a_Z
*GRAND MASTER CRAFTER*
"You must defeat me every time. I need defeat you only once"0 -
waitwhat✭✭✭✭✭@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
I completely understand. You are the one that isn't comprehending. Please explain to me how something that says "this will do X" but then does Y isn't false advertising. A game that doesn't properly convey skill effects is a poorly designed game.
That's because "X" (raw value based on stats) You see on tooltip is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses like CP's , minor berserk , flame staff etc so tooltip value You see is not in fact "X" but already an Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X and in execute range Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...+300%)*X . That's why without CP's , minor berserk and flame staff You have 300% because it's Y=X+300%*X .
You would want to see raw value always without seeing how percentage buffs affected tooltip ? Then I assume we would see many threads that CP's , minor berserk etc are bugged because You dont see tooltip changes and people would be confussed because adding some buffs would not affect tooltips. Or maybe You would want to see descritpion under tooltip saying "more percentage buffs You already applied then lower that 300% tolltip value will be because it's underlie the formula" ? Or just tell what would You want to see ? Because as I mentioned earlier everything with caclucating this skill dmg is correct and matches formula.
And I tell You this right now formula like Y=[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X]+300%*[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X] wont happen.
@Juhasow
I am of the mind that it should be doing 300% more damage calculated where 100% = tooltip value, regardless of the constituent calculations inherent in the tooltip value. That's certainly what it was doing before, and it makes sense that the 300% would be based off the damage the ability says it does at any given moment.
I'm still figuring out how exactly Killer's Blade was affected, and how much of it is my fault. Right my killer's blade has a tooltip of 3,841 and hits for about 14k non-crit. Values are definitely lower than what they were pre-Morrowind, but that's most likely me taking points out of Mighty.
What does surprise me is that it used to crit for 30-32k, and now I seem to be lucky to get to 26k. Have they changed how the modifier is applied in relation to crit damage?
Tooltip value is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses and 300% more dmg on execute range applies only to base dmg of skill which is lower then on tooltip if You have percentage bonuses already applied to it. Otherwise You would get 300% from minor berserk 8% , 300% from cp's bonuses etc
@waitwhat If You have tooltip 3841 with spended CP and applied minor berserk then never expect to see 15364.
About lower dmg of killers blade then pre Morrowind they changed things and now all percentage bonuses from Cp are additive instead of multiplicative that includes mighty , master at arms and precise strikes so Your killers blade crit dmg should be lower then before Morrowind.
So @Juhasow I get the part about how the tooltip value is already affected by multiple percentage bonuses. That's why the tooltip value increases when I drink a weapon power pot and gain major brutality.
Even if it isn't presently the case, however, I do believe that the 300% should apply to the tooltip value, and that is what it was doing before Morrowind.PS4 NA AD ScourgeVivec Loading Screen Simulator 2017
Khajiit stamblade main - Walking the Two-Moons Path and robbing cute Breton boys.
Breton magplar vet Trial Healer - Promoting wellness through self-reflection.
Argonian Tripot DK Cyrodiil Tank - One with the Hist and guarding cute Breton boys.
Altmer magsorc PvE DPS - Scamp tramp and unrepentant lush.
"30s to eval"
"Read the ******* lorebook."2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
I completely understand. You are the one that isn't comprehending. Please explain to me how something that says "this will do X" but then does Y isn't false advertising. A game that doesn't properly convey skill effects is a poorly designed game.
That's because "X" (raw value based on stats) You see on tooltip is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses like CP's , minor berserk , flame staff etc so tooltip value You see is not in fact "X" but already an Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X and in execute range Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...+300%)*X . That's why without CP's , minor berserk and flame staff You have 300% because it's Y=X+300%*X .
You would want to see raw value always without seeing how percentage buffs affected tooltip ? Then I assume we would see many threads that CP's , minor berserk etc are bugged because You dont see tooltip changes and people would be confussed because adding some buffs would not affect tooltips. Or maybe You would want to see descritpion under tooltip saying "more percentage buffs You already applied then lower that 300% tolltip value will be because it's underlie the formula" ? Or just tell what would You want to see ? Because as I mentioned earlier everything with caclucating this skill dmg is correct and matches formula.
And I tell You this right now formula like Y=[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X]+300%*[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X] wont happen.
@Juhasow
I am of the mind that it should be doing 300% more damage calculated where 100% = tooltip value, regardless of the constituent calculations inherent in the tooltip value. That's certainly what it was doing before, and it makes sense that the 300% would be based off the damage the ability says it does at any given moment.
I'm still figuring out how exactly Killer's Blade was affected, and how much of it is my fault. Right my killer's blade has a tooltip of 3,841 and hits for about 14k non-crit. Values are definitely lower than what they were pre-Morrowind, but that's most likely me taking points out of Mighty.
What does surprise me is that it used to crit for 30-32k, and now I seem to be lucky to get to 26k. Have they changed how the modifier is applied in relation to crit damage?
Tooltip value is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses and 300% more dmg on execute range applies only to base dmg of skill which is lower then on tooltip if You have percentage bonuses already applied to it. Otherwise You would get 300% from minor berserk 8% , 300% from cp's bonuses etc
@waitwhat If You have tooltip 3841 with spended CP and applied minor berserk then never expect to see 15364.
About lower dmg of killers blade then pre Morrowind they changed things and now all percentage bonuses from Cp are additive instead of multiplicative that includes mighty , master at arms and precise strikes so Your killers blade crit dmg should be lower then before Morrowind.
So @Juhasow I get the part about how the tooltip value is already affected by multiple percentage bonuses. That's why the tooltip value increases when I drink a weapon power pot and gain major brutality.
Even if it isn't presently the case, however, I do believe that the 300% should apply to the tooltip value, and that is what it was doing before Morrowind.
No @waitwhat You mistake 2 things. When You apply major brutality You ioncrease Your weapon dmg and weapon dmg same like max stamina are 2 things that creates base dmg value of skill. You increase flat value of weapon dmg by 20% and You have raw number which further base tooltip value will be scaled off. That's something totally different then percentage bonuses we're talking about here.2 -
waitwhat✭✭✭✭✭@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
I completely understand. You are the one that isn't comprehending. Please explain to me how something that says "this will do X" but then does Y isn't false advertising. A game that doesn't properly convey skill effects is a poorly designed game.
That's because "X" (raw value based on stats) You see on tooltip is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses like CP's , minor berserk , flame staff etc so tooltip value You see is not in fact "X" but already an Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X and in execute range Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...+300%)*X . That's why without CP's , minor berserk and flame staff You have 300% because it's Y=X+300%*X .
You would want to see raw value always without seeing how percentage buffs affected tooltip ? Then I assume we would see many threads that CP's , minor berserk etc are bugged because You dont see tooltip changes and people would be confussed because adding some buffs would not affect tooltips. Or maybe You would want to see descritpion under tooltip saying "more percentage buffs You already applied then lower that 300% tolltip value will be because it's underlie the formula" ? Or just tell what would You want to see ? Because as I mentioned earlier everything with caclucating this skill dmg is correct and matches formula.
And I tell You this right now formula like Y=[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X]+300%*[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X] wont happen.
@Juhasow
I am of the mind that it should be doing 300% more damage calculated where 100% = tooltip value, regardless of the constituent calculations inherent in the tooltip value. That's certainly what it was doing before, and it makes sense that the 300% would be based off the damage the ability says it does at any given moment.
I'm still figuring out how exactly Killer's Blade was affected, and how much of it is my fault. Right my killer's blade has a tooltip of 3,841 and hits for about 14k non-crit. Values are definitely lower than what they were pre-Morrowind, but that's most likely me taking points out of Mighty.
What does surprise me is that it used to crit for 30-32k, and now I seem to be lucky to get to 26k. Have they changed how the modifier is applied in relation to crit damage?
Tooltip value is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses and 300% more dmg on execute range applies only to base dmg of skill which is lower then on tooltip if You have percentage bonuses already applied to it. Otherwise You would get 300% from minor berserk 8% , 300% from cp's bonuses etc
@waitwhat If You have tooltip 3841 with spended CP and applied minor berserk then never expect to see 15364.
About lower dmg of killers blade then pre Morrowind they changed things and now all percentage bonuses from Cp are additive instead of multiplicative that includes mighty , master at arms and precise strikes so Your killers blade crit dmg should be lower then before Morrowind.
So @Juhasow I get the part about how the tooltip value is already affected by multiple percentage bonuses. That's why the tooltip value increases when I drink a weapon power pot and gain major brutality.
Even if it isn't presently the case, however, I do believe that the 300% should apply to the tooltip value, and that is what it was doing before Morrowind.
No @waitwhat You mistake 2 things. When You apply major brutality You ioncrease Your weapon dmg and weapon dmg same like max stamina are 2 things that creates base dmg value of skill. You increase flat value of weapon dmg by 20% and You have raw number which further base tooltip value will be scaled off. That's something totally different then percentage bonuses we're talking about here.
Actually, I know that. I also know that's entirely different from the 300% bonus we're talking about.
Nothing in my post indicated that I didn't know those things.
PS4 NA AD ScourgeVivec Loading Screen Simulator 2017
Khajiit stamblade main - Walking the Two-Moons Path and robbing cute Breton boys.
Breton magplar vet Trial Healer - Promoting wellness through self-reflection.
Argonian Tripot DK Cyrodiil Tank - One with the Hist and guarding cute Breton boys.
Altmer magsorc PvE DPS - Scamp tramp and unrepentant lush.
"30s to eval"
"Read the ******* lorebook."1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
I completely understand. You are the one that isn't comprehending. Please explain to me how something that says "this will do X" but then does Y isn't false advertising. A game that doesn't properly convey skill effects is a poorly designed game.
That's because "X" (raw value based on stats) You see on tooltip is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses like CP's , minor berserk , flame staff etc so tooltip value You see is not in fact "X" but already an Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X and in execute range Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...+300%)*X . That's why without CP's , minor berserk and flame staff You have 300% because it's Y=X+300%*X .
You would want to see raw value always without seeing how percentage buffs affected tooltip ? Then I assume we would see many threads that CP's , minor berserk etc are bugged because You dont see tooltip changes and people would be confussed because adding some buffs would not affect tooltips. Or maybe You would want to see descritpion under tooltip saying "more percentage buffs You already applied then lower that 300% tolltip value will be because it's underlie the formula" ? Or just tell what would You want to see ? Because as I mentioned earlier everything with caclucating this skill dmg is correct and matches formula.
And I tell You this right now formula like Y=[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X]+300%*[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X] wont happen.
@Juhasow
I am of the mind that it should be doing 300% more damage calculated where 100% = tooltip value, regardless of the constituent calculations inherent in the tooltip value. That's certainly what it was doing before, and it makes sense that the 300% would be based off the damage the ability says it does at any given moment.
I'm still figuring out how exactly Killer's Blade was affected, and how much of it is my fault. Right my killer's blade has a tooltip of 3,841 and hits for about 14k non-crit. Values are definitely lower than what they were pre-Morrowind, but that's most likely me taking points out of Mighty.
What does surprise me is that it used to crit for 30-32k, and now I seem to be lucky to get to 26k. Have they changed how the modifier is applied in relation to crit damage?
Tooltip value is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses and 300% more dmg on execute range applies only to base dmg of skill which is lower then on tooltip if You have percentage bonuses already applied to it. Otherwise You would get 300% from minor berserk 8% , 300% from cp's bonuses etc
@waitwhat If You have tooltip 3841 with spended CP and applied minor berserk then never expect to see 15364.
About lower dmg of killers blade then pre Morrowind they changed things and now all percentage bonuses from Cp are additive instead of multiplicative that includes mighty , master at arms and precise strikes so Your killers blade crit dmg should be lower then before Morrowind.
So @Juhasow I get the part about how the tooltip value is already affected by multiple percentage bonuses. That's why the tooltip value increases when I drink a weapon power pot and gain major brutality.
Even if it isn't presently the case, however, I do believe that the 300% should apply to the tooltip value, and that is what it was doing before Morrowind.
No @waitwhat You mistake 2 things. When You apply major brutality You ioncrease Your weapon dmg and weapon dmg same like max stamina are 2 things that creates base dmg value of skill. You increase flat value of weapon dmg by 20% and You have raw number which further base tooltip value will be scaled off. That's something totally different then percentage bonuses we're talking about here.
Actually, I know that. I also know that's entirely different from the 300% bonus we're talking about.
Nothing in my post indicated that I didn't know those things.
So why You give that as example which is totally pointless and missing the point ? They changed percentage bonuses to be additive instead of multiplicative now , end of story.Edited by Juhasow on June 16, 2017 12:13AM1 -
LZH✭✭✭✭@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
I completely understand. You are the one that isn't comprehending. Please explain to me how something that says "this will do X" but then does Y isn't false advertising. A game that doesn't properly convey skill effects is a poorly designed game.
That's because "X" (raw value based on stats) You see on tooltip is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses like CP's , minor berserk , flame staff etc so tooltip value You see is not in fact "X" but already an Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X and in execute range Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...+300%)*X . That's why without CP's , minor berserk and flame staff You have 300% because it's Y=X+300%*X .
You would want to see raw value always without seeing how percentage buffs affected tooltip ? Then I assume we would see many threads that CP's , minor berserk etc are bugged because You dont see tooltip changes and people would be confussed because adding some buffs would not affect tooltips. Or maybe You would want to see descritpion under tooltip saying "more percentage buffs You already applied then lower that 300% tolltip value will be because it's underlie the formula" ? Or just tell what would You want to see ? Because as I mentioned earlier everything with caclucating this skill dmg is correct and matches formula.
And I tell You this right now formula like Y=[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X]+300%*[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X] wont happen.
@Juhasow
I am of the mind that it should be doing 300% more damage calculated where 100% = tooltip value, regardless of the constituent calculations inherent in the tooltip value. That's certainly what it was doing before, and it makes sense that the 300% would be based off the damage the ability says it does at any given moment.
I'm still figuring out how exactly Killer's Blade was affected, and how much of it is my fault. Right my killer's blade has a tooltip of 3,841 and hits for about 14k non-crit. Values are definitely lower than what they were pre-Morrowind, but that's most likely me taking points out of Mighty.
What does surprise me is that it used to crit for 30-32k, and now I seem to be lucky to get to 26k. Have they changed how the modifier is applied in relation to crit damage?
Tooltip value is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses and 300% more dmg on execute range applies only to base dmg of skill which is lower then on tooltip if You have percentage bonuses already applied to it. Otherwise You would get 300% from minor berserk 8% , 300% from cp's bonuses etc
@waitwhat If You have tooltip 3841 with spended CP and applied minor berserk then never expect to see 15364.
About lower dmg of killers blade then pre Morrowind they changed things and now all percentage bonuses from Cp are additive instead of multiplicative that includes mighty , master at arms and precise strikes so Your killers blade crit dmg should be lower then before Morrowind.
So @Juhasow I get the part about how the tooltip value is already affected by multiple percentage bonuses. That's why the tooltip value increases when I drink a weapon power pot and gain major brutality.
Even if it isn't presently the case, however, I do believe that the 300% should apply to the tooltip value, and that is what it was doing before Morrowind.
No @waitwhat You mistake 2 things. When You apply major brutality You ioncrease Your weapon dmg and weapon dmg same like max stamina are 2 things that creates base dmg value of skill. You increase flat value of weapon dmg by 20% and You have raw number which further base tooltip value will be scaled off. That's something totally different then percentage bonuses we're talking about here.
Actually, I know that. I also know that's entirely different from the 300% bonus we're talking about.
Nothing in my post indicated that I didn't know those things.
So why You give that as example which is totally pointless and missing the point ? They changed percentage bonuses to be additive instead of multiplicative now , end of story.
Yes, they did do that. But realistically, it seems that the effect it has had on execute skills was unintended unless they planned on making them all hit like wet noodles (with the exception of mages' wrath because it is worded differently).0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
I completely understand. You are the one that isn't comprehending. Please explain to me how something that says "this will do X" but then does Y isn't false advertising. A game that doesn't properly convey skill effects is a poorly designed game.
That's because "X" (raw value based on stats) You see on tooltip is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses like CP's , minor berserk , flame staff etc so tooltip value You see is not in fact "X" but already an Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X and in execute range Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...+300%)*X . That's why without CP's , minor berserk and flame staff You have 300% because it's Y=X+300%*X .
You would want to see raw value always without seeing how percentage buffs affected tooltip ? Then I assume we would see many threads that CP's , minor berserk etc are bugged because You dont see tooltip changes and people would be confussed because adding some buffs would not affect tooltips. Or maybe You would want to see descritpion under tooltip saying "more percentage buffs You already applied then lower that 300% tolltip value will be because it's underlie the formula" ? Or just tell what would You want to see ? Because as I mentioned earlier everything with caclucating this skill dmg is correct and matches formula.
And I tell You this right now formula like Y=[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X]+300%*[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X] wont happen.
@Juhasow
I am of the mind that it should be doing 300% more damage calculated where 100% = tooltip value, regardless of the constituent calculations inherent in the tooltip value. That's certainly what it was doing before, and it makes sense that the 300% would be based off the damage the ability says it does at any given moment.
I'm still figuring out how exactly Killer's Blade was affected, and how much of it is my fault. Right my killer's blade has a tooltip of 3,841 and hits for about 14k non-crit. Values are definitely lower than what they were pre-Morrowind, but that's most likely me taking points out of Mighty.
What does surprise me is that it used to crit for 30-32k, and now I seem to be lucky to get to 26k. Have they changed how the modifier is applied in relation to crit damage?
Tooltip value is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses and 300% more dmg on execute range applies only to base dmg of skill which is lower then on tooltip if You have percentage bonuses already applied to it. Otherwise You would get 300% from minor berserk 8% , 300% from cp's bonuses etc
@waitwhat If You have tooltip 3841 with spended CP and applied minor berserk then never expect to see 15364.
About lower dmg of killers blade then pre Morrowind they changed things and now all percentage bonuses from Cp are additive instead of multiplicative that includes mighty , master at arms and precise strikes so Your killers blade crit dmg should be lower then before Morrowind.
So @Juhasow I get the part about how the tooltip value is already affected by multiple percentage bonuses. That's why the tooltip value increases when I drink a weapon power pot and gain major brutality.
Even if it isn't presently the case, however, I do believe that the 300% should apply to the tooltip value, and that is what it was doing before Morrowind.
No @waitwhat You mistake 2 things. When You apply major brutality You ioncrease Your weapon dmg and weapon dmg same like max stamina are 2 things that creates base dmg value of skill. You increase flat value of weapon dmg by 20% and You have raw number which further base tooltip value will be scaled off. That's something totally different then percentage bonuses we're talking about here.
Actually, I know that. I also know that's entirely different from the 300% bonus we're talking about.
Nothing in my post indicated that I didn't know those things.
So why You give that as example which is totally pointless and missing the point ? They changed percentage bonuses to be additive instead of multiplicative now , end of story.
Yes, they did do that. But realistically, it seems that the effect it has had on execute skills was unintended unless they planned on making them all hit like wet noodles (with the exception of mages' wrath because it is worded differently).
Actually if they would make other bonuses additive and execute value multiplicative it would just cause dmg boost compared to pre Morrowind instead of dmg nerf they wanted.1 -
Rasimir✭✭✭You all think it is done deliberately, and a nerf. Maybe it is just an "accident" because a lack of understanding of mathematics. There are other features suffering from the same problem: rounding in complex calculations. Just look at the CP calculations where we suddenly have an increased number of "jump points" (cp put into passives don't have any effect until you reach certain levels). Maybe they just rearranged the order of calculations for the skill, and since a lot is done with integer numbers, the rounding from percentages takes place on other parts of the formula than before.0
-
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I just took impale off my bar, as I am set up like the worse case senario, it was only doing like 26k crits, like 14k no crits, when my funnel is doing 20k and healing. I also put another dot on my bar, my overall dps has went up, as I am keeping the dots going better till the end.
Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on June 16, 2017 10:18AM0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
@Juhasow Look. We all know wat you mean. The thing is, the tool tip is misleading.@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
I completely understand. You are the one that isn't comprehending. Please explain to me how something that says "this will do X" but then does Y isn't false advertising. A game that doesn't properly convey skill effects is a poorly designed game.
That's because "X" (raw value based on stats) You see on tooltip is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses like CP's , minor berserk , flame staff etc so tooltip value You see is not in fact "X" but already an Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X and in execute range Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...+300%)*X . That's why without CP's , minor berserk and flame staff You have 300% because it's Y=X+300%*X .
You would want to see raw value always without seeing how percentage buffs affected tooltip ? Then I assume we would see many threads that CP's , minor berserk etc are bugged because You dont see tooltip changes and people would be confussed because adding some buffs would not affect tooltips. Or maybe You would want to see descritpion under tooltip saying "more percentage buffs You already applied then lower that 300% tolltip value will be because it's underlie the formula" ? Or just tell what would You want to see ? Because as I mentioned earlier everything with caclucating this skill dmg is correct and matches formula.
And I tell You this right now formula like Y=[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X]+300%*[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X] wont happen.
@Juhasow
I am of the mind that it should be doing 300% more damage calculated where 100% = tooltip value, regardless of the constituent calculations inherent in the tooltip value. That's certainly what it was doing before, and it makes sense that the 300% would be based off the damage the ability says it does at any given moment.
I'm still figuring out how exactly Killer's Blade was affected, and how much of it is my fault. Right my killer's blade has a tooltip of 3,841 and hits for about 14k non-crit. Values are definitely lower than what they were pre-Morrowind, but that's most likely me taking points out of Mighty.
What does surprise me is that it used to crit for 30-32k, and now I seem to be lucky to get to 26k. Have they changed how the modifier is applied in relation to crit damage?
Tooltip value is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses and 300% more dmg on execute range applies only to base dmg of skill which is lower then on tooltip if You have percentage bonuses already applied to it. Otherwise You would get 300% from minor berserk 8% , 300% from cp's bonuses etc
@waitwhat If You have tooltip 3841 with spended CP and applied minor berserk then never expect to see 15364.
About lower dmg of killers blade then pre Morrowind they changed things and now all percentage bonuses from Cp are additive instead of multiplicative that includes mighty , master at arms and precise strikes so Your killers blade crit dmg should be lower then before Morrowind.
So @Juhasow I get the part about how the tooltip value is already affected by multiple percentage bonuses. That's why the tooltip value increases when I drink a weapon power pot and gain major brutality.
Even if it isn't presently the case, however, I do believe that the 300% should apply to the tooltip value, and that is what it was doing before Morrowind.
No @waitwhat You mistake 2 things. When You apply major brutality You ioncrease Your weapon dmg and weapon dmg same like max stamina are 2 things that creates base dmg value of skill. You increase flat value of weapon dmg by 20% and You have raw number which further base tooltip value will be scaled off. That's something totally different then percentage bonuses we're talking about here.
Actually, I know that. I also know that's entirely different from the 300% bonus we're talking about.
Nothing in my post indicated that I didn't know those things.
So why You give that as example which is totally pointless and missing the point ? They changed percentage bonuses to be additive instead of multiplicative now , end of story.
Yes, they did do that. But realistically, it seems that the effect it has had on execute skills was unintended unless they planned on making them all hit like wet noodles (with the exception of mages' wrath because it is worded differently).
Actually if they would make other bonuses additive and execute value multiplicative it would just cause dmg boost compared to pre Morrowind instead of dmg nerf they wanted.
1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
@Juhasow Look. We all know wat you mean. The thing is, the tool tip is misleading.@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
I completely understand. You are the one that isn't comprehending. Please explain to me how something that says "this will do X" but then does Y isn't false advertising. A game that doesn't properly convey skill effects is a poorly designed game.
That's because "X" (raw value based on stats) You see on tooltip is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses like CP's , minor berserk , flame staff etc so tooltip value You see is not in fact "X" but already an Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X and in execute range Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...+300%)*X . That's why without CP's , minor berserk and flame staff You have 300% because it's Y=X+300%*X .
You would want to see raw value always without seeing how percentage buffs affected tooltip ? Then I assume we would see many threads that CP's , minor berserk etc are bugged because You dont see tooltip changes and people would be confussed because adding some buffs would not affect tooltips. Or maybe You would want to see descritpion under tooltip saying "more percentage buffs You already applied then lower that 300% tolltip value will be because it's underlie the formula" ? Or just tell what would You want to see ? Because as I mentioned earlier everything with caclucating this skill dmg is correct and matches formula.
And I tell You this right now formula like Y=[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X]+300%*[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X] wont happen.
@Juhasow
I am of the mind that it should be doing 300% more damage calculated where 100% = tooltip value, regardless of the constituent calculations inherent in the tooltip value. That's certainly what it was doing before, and it makes sense that the 300% would be based off the damage the ability says it does at any given moment.
I'm still figuring out how exactly Killer's Blade was affected, and how much of it is my fault. Right my killer's blade has a tooltip of 3,841 and hits for about 14k non-crit. Values are definitely lower than what they were pre-Morrowind, but that's most likely me taking points out of Mighty.
What does surprise me is that it used to crit for 30-32k, and now I seem to be lucky to get to 26k. Have they changed how the modifier is applied in relation to crit damage?
Tooltip value is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses and 300% more dmg on execute range applies only to base dmg of skill which is lower then on tooltip if You have percentage bonuses already applied to it. Otherwise You would get 300% from minor berserk 8% , 300% from cp's bonuses etc
@waitwhat If You have tooltip 3841 with spended CP and applied minor berserk then never expect to see 15364.
About lower dmg of killers blade then pre Morrowind they changed things and now all percentage bonuses from Cp are additive instead of multiplicative that includes mighty , master at arms and precise strikes so Your killers blade crit dmg should be lower then before Morrowind.
So @Juhasow I get the part about how the tooltip value is already affected by multiple percentage bonuses. That's why the tooltip value increases when I drink a weapon power pot and gain major brutality.
Even if it isn't presently the case, however, I do believe that the 300% should apply to the tooltip value, and that is what it was doing before Morrowind.
No @waitwhat You mistake 2 things. When You apply major brutality You ioncrease Your weapon dmg and weapon dmg same like max stamina are 2 things that creates base dmg value of skill. You increase flat value of weapon dmg by 20% and You have raw number which further base tooltip value will be scaled off. That's something totally different then percentage bonuses we're talking about here.
Actually, I know that. I also know that's entirely different from the 300% bonus we're talking about.
Nothing in my post indicated that I didn't know those things.
So why You give that as example which is totally pointless and missing the point ? They changed percentage bonuses to be additive instead of multiplicative now , end of story.
Yes, they did do that. But realistically, it seems that the effect it has had on execute skills was unintended unless they planned on making them all hit like wet noodles (with the exception of mages' wrath because it is worded differently).
Actually if they would make other bonuses additive and execute value multiplicative it would just cause dmg boost compared to pre Morrowind instead of dmg nerf they wanted.
@Koensol for Your knowledge it was never dealing 300% dmg from tooltip on execute range only difference is dmg before morrowind was usually higher then now but not exact 300% higher then tooltip says. Why people wasnt crying before morrowind that dmg doesnt match value on tooltip ? Let's be honest whole this thread isnt about execute dmg beeing misleading but about dmg nerf in Morrowind.Edited by Juhasow on June 16, 2017 2:06PM1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
I completely understand. You are the one that isn't comprehending. Please explain to me how something that says "this will do X" but then does Y isn't false advertising. A game that doesn't properly convey skill effects is a poorly designed game.
That's because "X" (raw value based on stats) You see on tooltip is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses like CP's , minor berserk , flame staff etc so tooltip value You see is not in fact "X" but already an Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X and in execute range Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...+300%)*X . That's why without CP's , minor berserk and flame staff You have 300% because it's Y=X+300%*X .
You would want to see raw value always without seeing how percentage buffs affected tooltip ? Then I assume we would see many threads that CP's , minor berserk etc are bugged because You dont see tooltip changes and people would be confussed because adding some buffs would not affect tooltips. Or maybe You would want to see descritpion under tooltip saying "more percentage buffs You already applied then lower that 300% tolltip value will be because it's underlie the formula" ? Or just tell what would You want to see ? Because as I mentioned earlier everything with caclucating this skill dmg is correct and matches formula.
And I tell You this right now formula like Y=[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X]+300%*[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X] wont happen.
@Juhasow
I am of the mind that it should be doing 300% more damage calculated where 100% = tooltip value, regardless of the constituent calculations inherent in the tooltip value. That's certainly what it was doing before, and it makes sense that the 300% would be based off the damage the ability says it does at any given moment.
I'm still figuring out how exactly Killer's Blade was affected, and how much of it is my fault. Right my killer's blade has a tooltip of 3,841 and hits for about 14k non-crit. Values are definitely lower than what they were pre-Morrowind, but that's most likely me taking points out of Mighty.
What does surprise me is that it used to crit for 30-32k, and now I seem to be lucky to get to 26k. Have they changed how the modifier is applied in relation to crit damage?
Tooltip value is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses and 300% more dmg on execute range applies only to base dmg of skill which is lower then on tooltip if You have percentage bonuses already applied to it. Otherwise You would get 300% from minor berserk 8% , 300% from cp's bonuses etc
@waitwhat If You have tooltip 3841 with spended CP and applied minor berserk then never expect to see 15364.
About lower dmg of killers blade then pre Morrowind they changed things and now all percentage bonuses from Cp are additive instead of multiplicative that includes mighty , master at arms and precise strikes so Your killers blade crit dmg should be lower then before Morrowind.
So @Juhasow I get the part about how the tooltip value is already affected by multiple percentage bonuses. That's why the tooltip value increases when I drink a weapon power pot and gain major brutality.
Even if it isn't presently the case, however, I do believe that the 300% should apply to the tooltip value, and that is what it was doing before Morrowind.
No @waitwhat You mistake 2 things. When You apply major brutality You ioncrease Your weapon dmg and weapon dmg same like max stamina are 2 things that creates base dmg value of skill. You increase flat value of weapon dmg by 20% and You have raw number which further base tooltip value will be scaled off. That's something totally different then percentage bonuses we're talking about here.
Actually, I know that. I also know that's entirely different from the 300% bonus we're talking about.
Nothing in my post indicated that I didn't know those things.
So why You give that as example which is totally pointless and missing the point ? They changed percentage bonuses to be additive instead of multiplicative now , end of story.
Yes, they did do that. But realistically, it seems that the effect it has had on execute skills was unintended unless they planned on making them all hit like wet noodles (with the exception of mages' wrath because it is worded differently).
I hate to say it, but I feel like this change is less "unintended" and more "intentionally not communicated." It seems a lot like the Major Force change, which (like this) just appeared to be a simplification of the damage calculation (and as far as I could tell, ZOS never actually put out a patch note or developer comment or forum response that correctly described that change; their communication on the Major Force nerf consistently refused to call it a nerf, which was either a lie or an example of the ZOS team not understanding their own game mechanics).
So now, it seems like it's just coefficient * power * crit * (1 - mitigation) * other, where all buffs within each variable (e.g., Major Brutality to power or Major Force to crit or Major Slayer to other) are additive. In the past we've had some edge cases where certain buffs were multiplicative and, presumably, the damage calculation multiplied CP effects and then multiplied "other" effects, but now that's all been flattened.
I hope it's a bug, but somehow I think this is just the new, "simpler" ESO damage system.
It's dumb but Nightblades are looking like they have some of the top DPS in the game regardless.Edited by LiquidPony on June 16, 2017 2:13PM0 -
Kay1✭✭✭✭✭
✭@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
You're the one who don't understand tbh, impale and killer's blade are hitting people for 2-5k in PvP and they used to hit for 9-14kEdited by Kay1 on June 16, 2017 2:46PMK1 The Big Monkey1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
You're the one who don't understand tbh, impale and killer's blade are hitting people for 2-5k in PvP and they used to hit for 9-14k
2-5k ? You're doing someting definietly wrong. My hits for 5-10k.
Edited by Juhasow on June 16, 2017 2:57PM1 -
LZH✭✭✭✭
@Juhasow Look. We all know wat you mean. The thing is, the tool tip is misleading.@LZH Working as intended. As You can see without any buffs it is 300% increase but more percentage buffs You add it becomes lesser value. Formula to get final dmg isnt just simply adding 300% to any value You have before execute range. More percentage bonuses You add the less effective each of them is , but when You added just this one buff You had almost 300%. The value before execute range is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses (minor slayer, minor berserk , CP, flame staff passive etc) and You're not increasing them but just raw value without them by 300%.
I've heared that they changed CP to be additive instead of multiplicative and this may cause lower dmg then before. I havnt tested yet is this true or not so I dont want to give not 100% correct calculations as example.
I'll give You advice. In scenario number 8 (gear , no CP) where You had ~278% change flame staff to lightning staff so You wont have 8% more single target abilities dmg boost and You'll see You'll get almost 300%
I understand why Impale is the way it is. My issue is that the skill is basically false advertising. It's literally only true if you have no damage done bonuses or any CP assigned. A situation that is pretty hard to come across. There's only 2 possible scenarios here: It's intended and ZOS sucks at both balancing executes and wording of execute tooltips OR it's not intended and ZOS is having troubles making it work correctly with damage done bonuses. My bet is on the second one.
Also, regarding it being additive with CP. When all I changed was CP I went from 247.9% without CP to 194.9% with CP.
1st You say You understand then You prove You dont...
Skill isnt bad advertised it just underlie the same formula as every other skill in the game which You dont understand. Every skill dmg is counted based on base dmg value.
I completely understand. You are the one that isn't comprehending. Please explain to me how something that says "this will do X" but then does Y isn't false advertising. A game that doesn't properly convey skill effects is a poorly designed game.
That's because "X" (raw value based on stats) You see on tooltip is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses like CP's , minor berserk , flame staff etc so tooltip value You see is not in fact "X" but already an Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X and in execute range Y=X+(A%+B%+C%+...+300%)*X . That's why without CP's , minor berserk and flame staff You have 300% because it's Y=X+300%*X .
You would want to see raw value always without seeing how percentage buffs affected tooltip ? Then I assume we would see many threads that CP's , minor berserk etc are bugged because You dont see tooltip changes and people would be confussed because adding some buffs would not affect tooltips. Or maybe You would want to see descritpion under tooltip saying "more percentage buffs You already applied then lower that 300% tolltip value will be because it's underlie the formula" ? Or just tell what would You want to see ? Because as I mentioned earlier everything with caclucating this skill dmg is correct and matches formula.
And I tell You this right now formula like Y=[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X]+300%*[X+(A%+B%+C%+...)*X] wont happen.
@Juhasow
I am of the mind that it should be doing 300% more damage calculated where 100% = tooltip value, regardless of the constituent calculations inherent in the tooltip value. That's certainly what it was doing before, and it makes sense that the 300% would be based off the damage the ability says it does at any given moment.
I'm still figuring out how exactly Killer's Blade was affected, and how much of it is my fault. Right my killer's blade has a tooltip of 3,841 and hits for about 14k non-crit. Values are definitely lower than what they were pre-Morrowind, but that's most likely me taking points out of Mighty.
What does surprise me is that it used to crit for 30-32k, and now I seem to be lucky to get to 26k. Have they changed how the modifier is applied in relation to crit damage?
Tooltip value is already affected by numerous percentage bonuses and 300% more dmg on execute range applies only to base dmg of skill which is lower then on tooltip if You have percentage bonuses already applied to it. Otherwise You would get 300% from minor berserk 8% , 300% from cp's bonuses etc
@waitwhat If You have tooltip 3841 with spended CP and applied minor berserk then never expect to see 15364.
About lower dmg of killers blade then pre Morrowind they changed things and now all percentage bonuses from Cp are additive instead of multiplicative that includes mighty , master at arms and precise strikes so Your killers blade crit dmg should be lower then before Morrowind.
So @Juhasow I get the part about how the tooltip value is already affected by multiple percentage bonuses. That's why the tooltip value increases when I drink a weapon power pot and gain major brutality.
Even if it isn't presently the case, however, I do believe that the 300% should apply to the tooltip value, and that is what it was doing before Morrowind.
No @waitwhat You mistake 2 things. When You apply major brutality You ioncrease Your weapon dmg and weapon dmg same like max stamina are 2 things that creates base dmg value of skill. You increase flat value of weapon dmg by 20% and You have raw number which further base tooltip value will be scaled off. That's something totally different then percentage bonuses we're talking about here.
Actually, I know that. I also know that's entirely different from the 300% bonus we're talking about.
Nothing in my post indicated that I didn't know those things.
So why You give that as example which is totally pointless and missing the point ? They changed percentage bonuses to be additive instead of multiplicative now , end of story.
Yes, they did do that. But realistically, it seems that the effect it has had on execute skills was unintended unless they planned on making them all hit like wet noodles (with the exception of mages' wrath because it is worded differently).
Actually if they would make other bonuses additive and execute value multiplicative it would just cause dmg boost compared to pre Morrowind instead of dmg nerf they wanted.
@Koensol for Your knowledge it was never dealing 300% dmg from tooltip on execute range only difference is dmg before morrowind was usually higher then now but not exact 300% higher then tooltip says. Why people wasnt crying before morrowind that dmg doesnt match value on tooltip ? Let's be honest whole this thread isnt about execute dmg beeing misleading but about dmg nerf in Morrowind.
You keep saying that people weren't complaining before Morrowind but they were. People knew that it was stacking additively with some bonuses like minor slayer, as were sweeps/beam. The changes this patch have just made an even bigger impact. It's fine if they keep this new damage formula, but at least make other skills fall in line. For example, give Mages' Wrath a similar damage formula as impale and remove the 140% component of sweeps in favour of what Mages' Wrath currently has. That way all executes would be additive with all bonuses, and all spammables would be multiplicative with all bonuses.
Also this post has nothing to do with the overall damage nerfs we received in Morrowind. I've adapted just fine to those changes. My issue is 100% with Impale and other skills being entirely misleading.Edited by LZH on June 16, 2017 5:13PM2 -
jediprime74✭✭✭So...no official ZOS response on this issue? Not like it has been almost two weeks or anything...Guildmaster of Fool's Errand, PvX/social, beginner to endgame Guild.
Guildmaster of Fools for the Pact an Ebonheart Pact PvP Guild.1 -
Npc at 23 k health which is about 10 % , impale for 22k like wtg seriously ??? , didnt die still at 1k health , 2 percent health and i finish off with a light attack ....
This is the new impale ,
EVERY TIME
yet zos get mad when i post about the heavy sack bug
Smh0 -
Kikke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No ETA?
Cleared Trials:
- vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
-Someone said it, I guess.0
