[POLL] Why sustain changes suck: Lazy design and solution.

Phinix1

As many have pointed out, having to spend half your combat time just holding down a button until a heavy attack goes off is totally lame and boring. Part of the reason is that ZOS didn't take the time to program it so PARTIAL heavy attacks restore partial resources.

This is also a problem for other abilities like warden heals where it is an "all or nothing" investment. If you let go of the button just a split second too soon, holding it down for 1.9 seconds instead of 2 seconds, you get NOTHING. This is a bad design and why people say the changes were lazy. It forces you into a "hold it and wait" play style where you just stand there with one button held down for what feels like FOREVER, as even the slightest bit of lag could cost you that entire wasted windup.

ZOS should program these heavy attack effects to grant partial benefit based on how long they are held, much like damage.

SanTii.92

Yes, partial heavy attacks should grant partial effects.

Yes, i agree, this is one of the first things i thought after seeing the changes, but i got to correct you, it's not true that we spend half your combat time just holding down a button until a heavy attack goes off, that's just poor play.

Phinix1

Yes, partial heavy attacks should grant partial effects.

Further I think this takes away from being able to focus on mechanics. For a combat system that is built on reactive action like bash, block, roll dodge, etc., having to break a long heavy attack windup to react causes you to lose your regen, which has NOTHING to do with skill and is in fact PURE RNG.

Also, I believe this takes away the emphasis on ZOS to create more interesting interactive mechanics for encounters, as people are too busy staring at resource meters and holding down heavy attack to react to them.

Tyrobag

Yes, partial heavy attacks should grant partial effects.

Making an obviously biased poll isn't going to make ZoS take notice. I agree that "medium attacks" should grant resources back equivalent to how much of the heavy attack you completed, but if you can't keep emotions out of your poll options just make them yes and no.

Phinix1

Yes, partial heavy attacks should grant partial effects.

Just an unrelated side note, but when your first major Chapter/Expansion/etc. is looked forward to with DREAD rather than hype, clearly something has gone horribly wrong.

ZOS maybe consider not totally changing the mechanics of the game in parallel with your next major release? Especially if that change is all nerf and no gain. NGE much?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Phinix1

Yes, partial heavy attacks should grant partial effects.

Tyrobag wrote: »

Making an obviously biased poll isn't going to make ZoS take notice. I agree that "medium attacks" should grant resources back equivalent to how much of the heavy attack you completed, but if you can't keep emotions out of your poll options just make them yes and no.

It is apparent to me now that NOTHING will make ZOS take notice. They do whatever they want regardless of feedback and I for one am tired of playing kitten meme about how I feel about it.

JasonSilverSpring

Other (please explain).

I chose other because your "poll" is rediculously biased. Like the changes or not, at least make a poll that is actually useful.

Skjoldur

Yes, partial heavy attacks should grant partial effects.

Phinix1 wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

Making an obviously biased poll isn't going to make ZoS take notice. I agree that "medium attacks" should grant resources back equivalent to how much of the heavy attack you completed, but if you can't keep emotions out of your poll options just make them yes and no.

It is apparent to me now that NOTHING will make ZOS take notice. They do whatever they want regardless of feedback and I for one am tired of playing kitten meme about how I feel about it.

Concur. Except for the graphic and world designers, the company seems to consist mainly of greedy businessmen that want you to subscribe & shop & gamble and amateur programmers, that can't even get simple things to work.

STEVIL

Other (please explain).

Yeah, absolutely cuz you know having it be easier is so much more skillful too.

#sarcasm

Sorry but having to work heavy attacks into your rotation or to alter your playstyle and/or gear to deal with changes is not an example of a failing on the part of the game or the designers... though it is a sign of an opportunity..

CaptainBeerDude

No, holding down a button and waiting for lag is "skilled play."

Biased poll is biased.

I'm starting to feel more strongly that it is entirely L2P issues. The meta has changed. You can't just slot max damage and get everything now. Slot sustain and be able to spam more, or slot damage and be prepared to use more normal attacks.

Knightpanther

No, holding down a button and waiting for lag is "skilled play."

Because in real life you really need to swing that sword with some force to kill someone.
As an avid historian and reenactor it all adds to the realism.

Someone just took your semi automatic off you and gave you a sword back.

Be safe

CaptainPocky

Other (please explain).

Has anyone in favor of full heavy attacks (*cough* ZOS) ever stopped to ask *why* DPS should have to use them in PvE to sustain when they have a good healer feeding them resources?

I've led every veteran trial and all hard modes but MoL on every role. DPSing is more fun when you're doing mechanics and keeping up with a second-by-second rotation with weaves. Healing is more fun when you're not only keeping everyone alive, but also making sure that they are able to sustain with your help.

Requiring heavy attacks from DPS slows their rotations down. Having healers not worry as much about the group's resources (let alone abandoning now-obsolete buffs like Aether) makes it just as easy as spamming healing springs. Neither of these are objectively good changes. They just add boredom.

TL;DR: To answer the poll, whether or not "medium" attacks or weaves restore resources isn't super important. Just please don't make me heavy attack if I have a good healer. (Note: Sure, DPS shouldn't be able to sustain w/o a good healer. But not with.)

CaptainPocky

Other (please explain).

I should also mention that the majority of my raid team has now quit and moved on to Overwatch. Highly recommend it for anyone thinking of doing the same!

ADarklore

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

I chose other because your "poll" is rediculously biased. Like the changes or not, at least make a poll that is actually useful.

I didn't choose any and am tired of people creating "polls" which are just veiled complaints that they're trying to get other people to agree with them... does it make them feel better? Can they now sleep well at night since they've added a sarcastic complaint 'poll'?

Avran_Sylt

Other (please explain).

The entire problem I have with how you regen resources is it forces players away from actually interesting combat as you can only regen one resource at a time.

I would love, love, love to be able to regen resources by hopping to a different resource while on the same bar. Instead of heavy attacking being the only way to regain resources, you'd regain resource by momentarily using another resource or heavy attacking (because of the pause), but this would apply to any resource that isn't being used at the moment. So heavy attacks would actually be restoring both resources, using abilities of one resource will allow the other to regen, Thus allowing the player to replace heavy attacks with other abilities and promoting more hybrid play while speeding up combat.

Malic

Other (please explain).

They suck because the entirety if the CP system, is and has been OP for some time.

Of course sustain needed to be addressed but it was so obvious for so long WHY.

Its like we were all outside on a sunny day, the players were pointing to the sky and saying "The sun is yellow and the sky is blue" and Zos was like "Nope, the sky is yellow and the sun is blue".

So now after dealing with crap play really with OP chars NOW they are addressing it. 3 patches to late if you ask me, which you did.