Guild Traders

Soot

Hello,

I feel I am not alone today when I say: "I wish my guild got a trader spot this week." Now if you feel this way too, whether it's a guild you're in, or a guild you founded, you might be of the opinion that the ESO lands needs more guild trader NPC kiosks.
I know there could be many many possibilities for how a trading system could work for everybody in the game, and that is what I'm proposing: that everyone who wants to trade, can, and any guild wanting a trader has one.
I would say that there at least needs to be even more traders than was just added by Morrowind. Am I alone?
Of course, there could be alternate takes of what a trading system should be, but I guess I'm not necessarily saying the trading system needs a major overhaul. It could. I suppose some would say so with sound reasons, but I'm appealing to the easy solution -- more trader kiosks.
I'm assuming it's an easy change because I remember the traders in the starter zones. There wuz 5 in each alliance? Maybe 6 in Khenarthi's? Regardless, if they were there right now, I believe they would be filled with guilds -- all of them -- with no empty trader kiosks. I could be wrong about it, but it just seems that way so I'm asking right now too.

So I'm saying: "pls add more trader NPC's" It would make me happier and maybe others as well. I just get to thinking.

-soot
PC NA

Ignotus

I, personally, am not willing to travel around the map to all of these traders. There are already too many spread out. When I am looking for something, I visit maybe 10% of the available trader locations. I'm not interested in traveling around the entire map to look for 1 item. It takes too long and isn't enjoyable. I only check the busiest or most convenient locations. If I don't find what I'm looking for, which is usually the case, I make do with whatever I have. Perhaps some people will check the out-of-the-way locations. I won't. Adding even more locations wouldn't make things any better from my perspective. The system itself is garbage. Just my opinion.

Cpt_Teemo

I wish there was just a centralized marketer for each zone that pulls all vendor info to those marketers while still maintaining the whole guild system

Victoria_Marquis

Auction Houses, end guild dictatorship, and exploiters stealing the hard erned coin from it's members. Make guilds,... Only for role-playing, or social groups. No more guild trade stores.

AzraelKrieg

Oh great. The auction house crowd popped in to continue beating the horse. Hasn't it suffered enough?

Artis

The main problem is that even though the game is oriented on casual players, the trading system is designed so that they can't participate. These players want to trade sporadically to just sell a cool item or two that they found and not to lose its price if they vendor it. However, most guilds that want to have good traders simply can't afford having such players.

What players can do - join a guild sell and leave. Or join a guild and pay reqs without really selling anything (that way a guild will have them). There are tons of spots and guilds for a player to join, most guilds are recruiting - they have inactive and noncontributing members to replace.

However, that won't solve an issue on a large scale. Idk, maybe if ZOS sees that the majority of players complains and all they will change the system. But right now their hands are tied - adding AH or anything like that will destroy most guilds. More traders would be great either way, of course.

Rosveen

Oddly, there were several unclaimed traders in popular locations last night on PC EU. Looks like many guilds attempted to move to Vvardenfell.

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

I wish there was just a centralized marketer for each zone that pulls all vendor info to those marketers while still maintaining the whole guild system

I'd be okay with that, considering we're already doing it with TTC.

Soot

I was more thinking big guild meta

Soot

small scale pvp pls

Soot

items on the market anywhere will be listed you-know-where but yeah big guild meta

Soot

hehe ok so owning the topic I don't mind if there's a better system out there I was more appealing to the idea you can just add more sometimes to fix the problem, maybe zenibeth can understand that and easily implement for the meanwhile until better system

Soot

understand?

Turelus

COMBO BREAKER!

Serious five posts in a row?

Soot

got an achieve too

Soot

you search traders n then I don't see much so I posted see if someone will respond n ***. Big guild meta ~~ big biz meta the boutiques are suffering w/o their little trinket shops

people who are in guilds for reasons OTHER than trading will miss out x/5 (depending on how many non traders they have) so maybe, since they're keeping the traders for now, create business classes -- guild classes depending on whether they want to change their trader system?

I kinda doubt they will

but spam that *** if you hate it so change the world

idm

i'll reiterate everyone should have access I think people can understand that it won't ruin the competitive market people enjoy it's just less of a smush to guilds needing to give their members store access.

hmm what else?

I'm thinking they're not going to change the system if they do so be it you go back n rehash or w/e ..... idk


*******

Ignotus wrote: »

I, personally, am not willing to travel around the map to all of these traders. There are already too many spread out. When I am looking for something, I visit maybe 10% of the available trader locations. I'm not interested in traveling around the entire map to look for 1 item. It takes too long and isn't enjoyable. I only check the busiest or most convenient locations. If I don't find what I'm looking for, which is usually the case, I make do with whatever I have. Perhaps some people will check the out-of-the-way locations. I won't. Adding even more locations wouldn't make things any better from my perspective. The system itself is garbage. Just my opinion.

well since you asked I actually do go wherever and even try to avoid "da big boyzz" 'cuz reasons you can infer I think

I get tho it sucks 'cuz you don't want to put that time into tradering, I get tired of it too but not always

*********

Artis wrote: »

The main problem is that even though the game is oriented on casual players, the trading system is designed so that they can't participate. These players want to trade sporadically to just sell a cool item or two that they found and not to lose its price if they vendor it. However, most guilds that want to have good traders simply can't afford having such players.

What players can do - join a guild sell and leave. Or join a guild and pay reqs without really selling anything (that way a guild will have them). There are tons of spots and guilds for a player to join, most guilds are recruiting - they have inactive and noncontributing members to replace.

However, that won't solve an issue on a large scale. Idk, maybe if ZOS sees that the majority of players complains and all they will change the system. But right now their hands are tied - adding AH or anything like that will destroy most guilds. More traders would be great either way, of course.

This is kinda my mindset where I don't think a radical change will occur -- my OP was more about make everyone happy. I still see something like this system being very gamey so I can't wholly dis; just don't play the game. But I like the dungeon game etc pvp what have you so put it together and we have a system where guilds are to go big or die off to trader migrations. It sucks that guilds are all supposed to be traders in this meaningful way. So more guild traders pls to accommodate 50+ guilds.

*********

Victoria_Marquis wrote: »

Auction Houses, end guild dictatorship, and exploiters stealing the hard erned coin from it's members. Make guilds,... Only for role-playing, or social groups. No more guild trade stores.

I think trading guilds would have to adjust if implemented. It's possible I think there are solutions

Thx all

Tommy_The_Gun

Victoria_Marquis wrote: »

Auction Houses, end guild dictatorship, and exploiters stealing the hard erned coin from it's members. Make guilds,... Only for role-playing, or social groups. No more guild trade stores.

The truth about trading guilds in eso is sad but.. well true... Current trading system is terrible.
It is too "elite", closed system with the same trading guilds taking up the same spots over and over again. In other words bids on most vendor NPCs are simply rigged.

Furthermore - Even if you have a guild you will be lucky to actually "have" a vendor NPC, even in some obscure place. And you will be lucky even more if you will manage to keep that spot for a longer period of time. And paying gold fee / toll for the fact that you are in a specific guild is simply bad practise.

And the most terrible part about this system is this: most of people do not even know how this system works.. all they can do is spamm "WTS : xyz" on zone chat and hope for the best....



I think that an "Auction House" as a place where there are "Auctions" going on - is also bad idea. There was this big problem with other mmo (WoW i think) where auctions where rigged by richest guilds and the prices on global market went insanely high.



The best solution would be to simply add idk.. 3 NPCs (1 per faction/alliance) that will house all "independent" traders (solo players / small guild players). And of course - something like that might weaken the position of current trading guilds.. So to prevent that some limit of max item that a "solo player" or a "small guilds" can sell could solve this problem - 1 item per week, or something like that.

Or just.. idk add some global item search engine... even with no min/max prices.. just to save time so I could simply know to witch zone and what guild to go and search for it.... "A search by item's name" could be also pretty handy...

Sakiri

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Victoria_Marquis wrote: »

Auction Houses, end guild dictatorship, and exploiters stealing the hard erned coin from it's members. Make guilds,... Only for role-playing, or social groups. No more guild trade stores.

The truth about trading guilds in eso is sad but.. well true... Current trading system is terrible.
It is too "elite", closed system with the same trading guilds taking up the same spots over and over again. In other words bids on most vendor NPCs are simply rigged.

Furthermore - Even if you have a guild you will be lucky to actually "have" a vendor NPC, even in some obscure place. And you will be lucky even more if you will manage to keep that spot for a longer period of time. And paying gold fee / toll for the fact that you are in a specific guild is simply bad practise.

And the most terrible part about this system is this: most of people do not even know how this system works.. all they can do is spamm "WTS : xyz" on zone chat and hope for the best....



I think that an "Auction House" as a place where there are "Auctions" going on - is also bad idea. There was this big problem with other mmo (WoW i think) where auctions where rigged by richest guilds and the prices on global market went insanely high.



The best solution would be to simply add idk.. 3 NPCs (1 per faction/alliance) that will house all "independent" traders (solo players / small guild players). And of course - something like that might weaken the position of current trading guilds.. So to prevent that some limit of max item that a "solo player" or a "small guilds" can sell could solve this problem - 1 item per week, or something like that.

Or just.. idk add some global item search engine... even with no min/max prices.. just to save time so I could simply know to witch zone and what guild to go and search for it.... "A search by item's name" could be also pretty handy...

WoW's auction house rigging is no different than here.

There's not a single game where a small group of rich guys *doesn't* own the market.

That's why arguments against a unified trade system make me laugh.

Balgost

Ignotus wrote: »

I, personally, am not willing to travel around the map to all of these traders. There are already too many spread out. When I am looking for something, I visit maybe 10% of the available trader locations. I'm not interested in traveling around the entire map to look for 1 item. It takes too long and isn't enjoyable. I only check the busiest or most convenient locations. If I don't find what I'm looking for, which is usually the case, I make do with whatever I have. Perhaps some people will check the out-of-the-way locations. I won't. Adding even more locations wouldn't make things any better from my perspective. The system itself is garbage. Just my opinion.

I'm with you on this Ignotus. I don't like shopping irl and I'm sure not going to do it in a game.

In addition I've got a few characters setup as pack mules and one of them has a full bag of nothing but purple gear and crafting mats ready to sell. For the first time today I looked at joining a trading guild. I checked the recruitment forums and the only one of interest is full. I asked for an invite anyway. Next I went to some of my favorite spots for guild traders and looked at the names and searched them on the web. I have yet to find a website for any of the guilds I searched so there's no way to ask to join or see any requirements. The whole system is pretty much locked down to those already in it.

Some kind of centralized trading/selling would be welcomed.

MacCait

I'm not sure giving us more NPC trader positions will work... because there is another problem occuring...

I'm not sure what the situation is on other servers but currently on PS4 EU we have a BIG problem with trade guilds and have had for a LONG time...

The problem surrounds 3 groups of people, who run 3 different trade guild alliances. These people have 100's and 100's of millions each, and they owners withdraw multiple millions from each guild each week. They run multiple guilds within their own alliance, and add other guilds to their alliances. Between this set of 3 groups of people, they have monopolised trading on PS4 EU server. All trading on PS4 EU is controlled by just a handful of players.

The idea and original intention of the trading guilds was that each guild could have a chance at hiring a guild trader... but it doesn't actually work that way now. Any guild that is not in one of these mega alliances has almost no chance of getting a trader.

The owners have so much money they put down a ridiculous amount on hiring traders for their mulyiple guilds, then tell other people in their aliance which other traders to bid on... The owners of these alliances have sooo much money, they also make 'dummy traders' with 10 characters or dummy psn's... and then put down silly money to hire other trader spots with these dummy guilds. If they lose a bid, they stand next to the dummy trader, disband it, then hire that trader for cheap. If someone in their alliance misses a bit, same thing happens. These 3 groups of people (maybe 9 or so people) alliances are at war with each other, so the price of traders gets higher and higher. They have so much money that they can afford to annoy each other by making fake guilds taking the mickey out of their opponents by creating a guild with a similar name, but a spoof of that name, even copying their tabbard, and placing them in a place that their opponent would normally bid on. They have so much money they can afford to do this even though it costs them a few million.

Every time a dummy trader is disbanded it creates the trader bug for ALL traders, where the trader name is bugged and it looks as though a guild has no trader when in fact they do.

All of this makes it impossible for other guilds to get a fair chance at a trader now.

These 3 groups of people also continue to make new guilds, run by a different psn or alt, just making themselves more and more obsene amounts of in game gold.

ZOS knows about this but it appears they do not care...

Adding new NPC's to the game is needed on the one hand, but what will happen on PS4 EU is these 3 groups of people will just make new guilds and then grab those traders too.

The only way I can see that STOPS this is to make one centralised trader system, even though many of us didn't want that. I cam't see any other way to stop monopolising and exploiting the system. These players have so much crazy amounts of money now, that unless they have it atken away, which would never happen, there is no way around the situation. They OWN everything.

It's literally like 3 mafia gangs in real life lol. Funny, but actually NOT

Cpt_Teemo

Sakiri wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Victoria_Marquis wrote: »

Auction Houses, end guild dictatorship, and exploiters stealing the hard erned coin from it's members. Make guilds,... Only for role-playing, or social groups. No more guild trade stores.

The truth about trading guilds in eso is sad but.. well true... Current trading system is terrible.
It is too "elite", closed system with the same trading guilds taking up the same spots over and over again. In other words bids on most vendor NPCs are simply rigged.

Furthermore - Even if you have a guild you will be lucky to actually "have" a vendor NPC, even in some obscure place. And you will be lucky even more if you will manage to keep that spot for a longer period of time. And paying gold fee / toll for the fact that you are in a specific guild is simply bad practise.

And the most terrible part about this system is this: most of people do not even know how this system works.. all they can do is spamm "WTS : xyz" on zone chat and hope for the best....



I think that an "Auction House" as a place where there are "Auctions" going on - is also bad idea. There was this big problem with other mmo (WoW i think) where auctions where rigged by richest guilds and the prices on global market went insanely high.



The best solution would be to simply add idk.. 3 NPCs (1 per faction/alliance) that will house all "independent" traders (solo players / small guild players). And of course - something like that might weaken the position of current trading guilds.. So to prevent that some limit of max item that a "solo player" or a "small guilds" can sell could solve this problem - 1 item per week, or something like that.

Or just.. idk add some global item search engine... even with no min/max prices.. just to save time so I could simply know to witch zone and what guild to go and search for it.... "A search by item's name" could be also pretty handy...

WoW's auction house rigging is no different than here.

There's not a single game where a small group of rich guys *doesn't* own the market.

That's why arguments against a unified trade system make me laugh.

But on the bright side you get alot more gameplay per day rather than just 5% for most people

Feanor

The game doesn't need more traders. It definitely needs a much improved and better trader UI.

Phytanic

Honestly, people put too much weight on how trading guilds are "only for making money" and stuff.

Straight up: trader guilds are more than that. They're the best social guilds for newer and older players alike. They bring players together from ALL facets of the game into one community. Take that away, and the social aspect will disappear. I see on a daily basis people asking for gear made, dungeon runs, pug trials, etc. Frankly, it's how I personally began my trials "career" a long long time ago.

Tl;Dr Don't get rid of them. It's FAR more than a simple gold making activity.

Cpt_Teemo

Phytanic wrote: »

Honestly, people put too much weight on how trading guilds are "only for making money" and stuff.

Straight up: trader guilds are more than that. They're the best social guilds for newer and older players alike. They bring players together from ALL facets of the game into one community. Take that away, and the social aspect will disappear. I see on a daily basis people asking for gear made, dungeon runs, pug trials, etc. Frankly, it's how I personally began my trials "career" a long long time ago.

Tl;Dr Don't get rid of them. It's FAR more than a simple gold making activity.

Except for the fact the top send slots get sold off every week to highest bidders.

wolfie1.0.

I do have a problem with a Central trading hub. Why? well it has to do with MMO economics. You see MMO's need 2 things, a way to earn gold... and a way to remove it from the system (i.e a Gold Sink). One of the problems with eso is that it is really easy to earn gold. just by stealing on 1-2 characters you can make 25-50k, add in all the other gold earned by dailies and mobs and it adds up. So where does that gold go? Well it goes into peoples banks. It adds up. People then either spend it or they don't.

When you buy an item from another player via trade that gold is just a redistribution of assests so no gold removed. Mail trades are the same.
For individual players these are the Gold Sinks:

Mail Tax: COD fees are a convenience fee. other wise negligible
Laundering - used for useful items and not much else
Bountys - mandatory if caught
Repair costs - non voluntary in most cases
Purchases from Standard NPC - Nobody will do this unless they REALLY need an item
Purchases from Unique or Special NPC's: These sink a large amount of gold, but are not required
Bank and Bag space increases: These can sink large amounts of gold, but are one time purchases. and using crafting bags,mules, and spending crowns you can get around having to pay.
Housing: A one time gold sink. Most people dont purchase or furnish more than one house - Not Mandatory
Furniture: Unless you are decorating a new house


Guild Gold Sinks:
Guild tax: 3% of the tax on sales via a trader is removed from the game.
Guild Traders: Winning a trader results in your guilds bid being removed from the game.

The problem is that in the above list of gold sinks the majority of the mechanic that removes gold from the game are paid by trade guilds. Outside of that the only way individual players sink gold from the game that is relatively mandatory is repair costs and if you have tons of resources you can get around that in a lot of cases. The point is that you can't scrap the current system without putting a replacement gold sink in place and each traders sinks anywhere from 10k to 10 mill a week in gold from the game. That adds up. in fact the prices of items have been pretty stable even factoring in spikes for DLC. Hate it or love it the system currently works at keeping inflation in check.

Also keep in mind that most guilds that have traders are able to meet bid requirements due to donations from guild members.Guild events are really what allow guilds to afford traders and remove massive amounts of gold. If you remove the trader wars and turn to a One hub style where any can sell you will not remove near the same amounts of gold unless you increase the sales tax, which will not be enough based on previous MMO experience. So until some one comes up with a vialble way to remove large amounts of gold from the game each week we cant replace the current system.

Artis

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Victoria_Marquis wrote: »

Auction Houses, end guild dictatorship, and exploiters stealing the hard erned coin from it's members. Make guilds,... Only for role-playing, or social groups. No more guild trade stores.

The truth about trading guilds in eso is sad but.. well true... Current trading system is terrible.
It is too "elite", closed system with the same trading guilds taking up the same spots over and over again. In other words bids on most vendor NPCs are simply rigged.

Furthermore - Even if you have a guild you will be lucky to actually "have" a vendor NPC, even in some obscure place. And you will be lucky even more if you will manage to keep that spot for a longer period of time. And paying gold fee / toll for the fact that you are in a specific guild is simply bad practise.

And the most terrible part about this system is this: most of people do not even know how this system works.. all they can do is spamm "WTS : xyz" on zone chat and hope for the best....



I think that an "Auction House" as a place where there are "Auctions" going on - is also bad idea. There was this big problem with other mmo (WoW i think) where auctions where rigged by richest guilds and the prices on global market went insanely high.



The best solution would be to simply add idk.. 3 NPCs (1 per faction/alliance) that will house all "independent" traders (solo players / small guild players). And of course - something like that might weaken the position of current trading guilds.. So to prevent that some limit of max item that a "solo player" or a "small guilds" can sell could solve this problem - 1 item per week, or something like that.

Or just.. idk add some global item search engine... even with no min/max prices.. just to save time so I could simply know to witch zone and what guild to go and search for it.... "A search by item's name" could be also pretty handy...

Closed? It's anything but closed. Pretty much every guild running a trader is ALWAYS recruiting and looking for members to remove inactive players. Why do you say it's closed? Can't you get into a trader guild or know someone who can't? I can easily help you with that. There are no guilds with all 500 members active. It's just too rare.

And why is paying gold bad practice? It's an investment. You pay, say, 1k but that allows you to sell 10k => 9k profit.

You solution isn't that bad though. As in, it won't harm the game. But I think it will create a bad precedent and players will ask for more slots, because one slot is indeed frustrating. Even 30 slots are frustrating. But if you get too close to that number, that would affect guilds really bad.

Balgost

Artis wrote: »

Pretty much every guild running a trader is ALWAYS recruiting and looking for members to remove inactive players.

As I stated above, I looked for webpages for the guilds in particular areas. I also searched these forums for a recruitment thread. Other than a few guilds (3-4) that are openly recruiting there's nothing else that I've found.

Is there a comprehensive list of trading guilds with contact info?

SamboJ

A guild trader assistant only available for single-player use (like the fence), yet available for others to use inside your in-game property could remedy a lot of the issues raised so far.

Regards,

@SamboJ

Mrs_Malaka

i think people get high during maintenance nights and then get on the forums lol

NukeAllTheThings

bill94elub17_ESO wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Pretty much every guild running a trader is ALWAYS recruiting and looking for members to remove inactive players.

As I stated above, I looked for webpages for the guilds in particular areas. I also searched these forums for a recruitment thread. Other than a few guilds (3-4) that are openly recruiting there's nothing else that I've found.

Is there a comprehensive list of trading guilds with contact info?

I am an active trader who has taken a few breaks since guild traders were introduced. Each time I come back I find new trade guilds, or I am fortunate to get back into and older successful one. You can surf around looking for one but I have found that doing it in game is much better.

What I do is just keep an eye out for all recruitment messages in game. IF they have a trader, if they have a couple hundred member, I ask to join and start selling. I do this until I fill up my 5 slots. I list in all of them and keep an eye on where they are getting vendors each week. I also keep an eye on others who routinely get good spots or who get the same spots each week (tells me they sell a ton and they are stable). If I see a recruitment message from one of those I ask in and drop my lowest performing one (usually one that loses out on vendors a couple of times a month).

TLDR, don't be choosy just join one that is advertising for new blood. Get in and make money and upgrade if you need to. Every day you are spending surfing the web for the perfect guild is a day you aren't making any gold IN one.

Belidos

Phytanic wrote: »

Honestly, people put too much weight on how trading guilds are "only for making money" and stuff.

Straight up: trader guilds are more than that. They're the best social guilds for newer and older players alike. They bring players together from ALL facets of the game into one community. Take that away, and the social aspect will disappear. I see on a daily basis people asking for gear made, dungeon runs, pug trials, etc. Frankly, it's how I personally began my trials "career" a long long time ago.

Tl;Dr Don't get rid of them. It's FAR more than a simple gold making activity.

i'm in four large trading guilds, so far except for when someone new joins and someone says hi and welcome, i have never seen any of them actually speak in guild chat except for a price check, is that what you call social?

Betsararie

In guilds that don't have traders ??

You need to find better guilds bro