Make Trials Great Again!@ZOS

Funkopotamus

So we were running a vet trial the other night and a discussion began about how much needs to be done to make ESO a MMO that can retain its player base. Now keep in mind that the players I was running with would be considered "Above Casual" players. We have all completed VMA,VDSA,Vtrials and Vhard modes. Most of them only run trials for the leader boards anymore. That being said there are a LOT of players in our guilds that have left the game not simply because of the incoming disaster of a patch, but Morrowind is simply the proverbial straw that "broke their back" and patience with ZOS"

Upon entering the trial people were saying " well damn its dark/night time get ready for DCing all run long" -Why is this still a thing after this long it should have been fixed-. So yes we got to the first boss and the DC's started like clockwork. We pushed on, but during the waiting for people to relog and get back to the party we started the conversation about how bored they are getting with ESO. The end game in ESO is simply not rewarding enough to keep them wanting to log on anymore. Rewards for VHMTrials are just not worth the effort. I mean a pat on the back and an achievement is not going to keep players around for very long.

So I asked them what exactly would they like to see added/changed in ESO end game content. We talked at length about these things, but I will simply give you the basics.

For trials there needs to be a reward system that is more than a pat on the back and a title! The stats boost from gold jewelry is simply laughable. Someone said that ESO needs to take a look at how other games "We will use NeverWinter as an example simply because it is a console MMO" ESO could add a trials currency that can be used to buy "COSMETIC ONLY" gear. Like skins for your weapons. Maybe even costume gear would be great. It could work like this
Normal trial completion awards the player 5 Coins/Tokens/Scrolls
Vet trials awards the player with 10 Coins/Tokens/Scrolls
Vet Hard Mode awards the player with 25 Coins/Tokens/Scrolls

These Scrolls/Coins/Tokens would then be used to purchase skins for weapons. or costumes. With that being said these rewards should NOT be set at low prices. Skins for weapons could be around 100 coins/tokens. Costume helm skins and armor skins should be around 120+. We could even take it a step further and add a mount in here for 500+ or 1,000!! These rewards should have the visual effects of the trial that you ran to obtain them. The Hel Ra weapons/Costume skins should have a "Stone look" to them. Maybe a lava like look. The mount reward could be a Welwa. Sanctum Ophidia could go with a primal look or something. AA could go with a magical theme. You get the point.

Going a step further.... These Coins/Tokens/Scrolls should only be used for that specific trials rewards. So the Scrolls/Coins/Token you earn from running hel ra coud NOT be used to obtain rewards from the Sanctum Ophidia and Aetherian Archive venders.

Here is an example of how this would work.
Trial: Hel Ra Citadel Rewards list.
Weapon skin Cost 100
Armor skin Cost 150
Helm skin cost 100
Mount Welwa cost 500

I know some people will look at those prices and cringe, but I think they are about right. As these are there to give people something to work towards. These are not meant for the instant reward type of people. Being someone that went from PC to playing on console I will tell you first hand that ZOS and Perfect World seriously underestimated the willingness of the console player to grind!! Heck Perfect world went so far as to flat out REMOVE content/dungeons from the game as people were grinding dungeons for diamonds at a rate that let them bypass the cash shop all together. That is why I say these items need to be cosmetic only and the cost should be set so high.

As we continued the trial we continued to get disconnected and a trial run that should have taken 30 minutes turned into almost 2 hours so we had a long time to talk about this. A lot of these players have began to play Neverwinter again. I have talked to a lot of players that have started playing NW again and they all tell me it is because even with all of the problems that NW does have "and it does have its troubles" but the one thing that Neverwinter has done correctly is the end game content. In Neverwinter you actually have MEANINGFUL end game content that makes you feel like you are PROGRESSING your character. On top of feeling like you are progressing but the content is actually HARD to complete and FUN! To much of ESOs content feels and plays like a "Babies First MMO". What makes it worse is the fact that ESO End game content is just not worth the time it takes to do it. Not to mention that half the time it is so broken we cannot complete it due to disconnects.

So I do hope someone from ZOS takes the time to read this as I think these ideas would be a great way to expand and take advantage of content that is already in the game and yet give players something exciting and meaningful to work for. It would be a simple way to add a much needed spark to end game content in ESO.

I would like to hear from the community here on the forums.. Would this be something that would get you excited about running trials again? As it is now after you get your gold jewelry you have no reason at all to run trials again. This would give us all something to work towards and make TRIALS GREAT AGAIN!

Stovahkiin

You wrote a lot

N0TPLAYER2

Stovahkiin wrote: »

You wrote a lot

And the dumbing down of the world continues.

Stovahkiin

N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

You wrote a lot

And the dumbing down of the world continues.

Okay then :x

andreasranasen

Absolutely LOVE your post. Rewards in this game is a complete mess! Unfortunately they wouldn't go this route because they're wayy too money greedy to actually care about this game and where it heading.

But I'm all for your post!! Awesome ideas

theamazingx

While I think more neat rewards for endgame content would be great, I think focus should be kept on your core issue that trials are completely broke on console. New cosmetics won't make constant DCs fun.

ericprydz82ub17_ESO

While I do agree that they should fix trials first, they can also get their art team started on designing some costumes, accessories, pets, and mounts that could be used in the way described by the OP.

I know this is a more casual type of MMO (ZOS's words) but other MMOs add in cosmetics all the time to this type of content for everyone from casual to hardcore to enjoy.

Kali_Despoine

tldt but I got the jest of it.

I don't see ESO going that direction because there is no cash grab involved there.

You want cosmetics? You need to pay $$$

The problem is the content is old and broken.

I do like your idea though

Wifeaggro13

Funkopotamus wrote: »

So we were running a vet trial the other night and a discussion began about how much needs to be done to make ESO a MMO that can retain its player base. Now keep in mind that the players I was running with would be considered "Above Casual" players. We have all completed VMA,VDSA,Vtrials and Vhard modes. Most of them only run trials for the leader boards anymore. That being said there are a LOT of players in our guilds that have left the game not simply because of the incoming disaster of a patch, but Morrowind is simply the proverbial straw that "broke their back" and patience with ZOS"

Upon entering the trial people were saying " well damn its dark/night time get ready for DCing all run long" -Why is this still a thing after this long it should have been fixed-. So yes we got to the first boss and the DC's started like clockwork. We pushed on, but during the waiting for people to relog and get back to the party we started the conversation about how bored they are getting with ESO. The end game in ESO is simply not rewarding enough to keep them wanting to log on anymore. Rewards for VHMTrials are just not worth the effort. I mean a pat on the back and an achievement is not going to keep players around for very long.

So I asked them what exactly would they like to see added/changed in ESO end game content. We talked at length about these things, but I will simply give you the basics.

For trials there needs to be a reward system that is more than a pat on the back and a title! The stats boost from gold jewelry is simply laughable. Someone said that ESO needs to take a look at how other games "We will use NeverWinter as an example simply because it is a console MMO" ESO could add a trials currency that can be used to buy "COSMETIC ONLY" gear. Like skins for your weapons. Maybe even costume gear would be great. It could work like this
Normal trial completion awards the player 5 Coins/Tokens/Scrolls
Vet trials awards the player with 10 Coins/Tokens/Scrolls
Vet Hard Mode awards the player with 25 Coins/Tokens/Scrolls

These Scrolls/Coins/Tokens would then be used to purchase skins for weapons. or costumes. With that being said these rewards should NOT be set at low prices. Skins for weapons could be around 100 coins/tokens. Costume helm skins and armor skins should be around 120+. We could even take it a step further and add a mount in here for 500+ or 1,000!! These rewards should have the visual effects of the trial that you ran to obtain them. The Hel Ra weapons/Costume skins should have a "Stone look" to them. Maybe a lava like look. The mount reward could be a Welwa. Sanctum Ophidia could go with a primal look or something. AA could go with a magical theme. You get the point.

Going a step further.... These Coins/Tokens/Scrolls should only be used for that specific trials rewards. So the Scrolls/Coins/Token you earn from running hel ra coud NOT be used to obtain rewards from the Sanctum Ophidia and Aetherian Archive venders.

Here is an example of how this would work.
Trial: Hel Ra Citadel Rewards list.
Weapon skin Cost 100
Armor skin Cost 150
Helm skin cost 100
Mount Welwa cost 500

I know some people will look at those prices and cringe, but I think they are about right. As these are there to give people something to work towards. These are not meant for the instant reward type of people. Being someone that went from PC to playing on console I will tell you first hand that ZOS and Perfect World seriously underestimated the willingness of the console player to grind!! Heck Perfect world went so far as to flat out REMOVE content/dungeons from the game as people were grinding dungeons for diamonds at a rate that let them bypass the cash shop all together. That is why I say these items need to be cosmetic only and the cost should be set so high.

As we continued the trial we continued to get disconnected and a trial run that should have taken 30 minutes turned into almost 2 hours so we had a long time to talk about this. A lot of these players have began to play Neverwinter again. I have talked to a lot of players that have started playing NW again and they all tell me it is because even with all of the problems that NW does have "and it does have its troubles" but the one thing that Neverwinter has done correctly is the end game content. In Neverwinter you actually have MEANINGFUL end game content that makes you feel like you are PROGRESSING your character. On top of feeling like you are progressing but the content is actually HARD to complete and FUN! To much of ESOs content feels and plays like a "Babies First MMO". What makes it worse is the fact that ESO End game content is just not worth the time it takes to do it. Not to mention that half the time it is so broken we cannot complete it due to disconnects.

So I do hope someone from ZOS takes the time to read this as I think these ideas would be a great way to expand and take advantage of content that is already in the game and yet give players something exciting and meaningful to work for. It would be a simple way to add a much needed spark to end game content in ESO.

I would like to hear from the community here on the forums.. Would this be something that would get you excited about running trials again? As it is now after you get your gold jewelry you have no reason at all to run trials again. This would give us all something to work towards and make TRIALS GREAT AGAIN!

in short ESO will never be that game. Two words stand in front of ESO becoming a true MMO with actual group incentive.

Matt Fior

Funkopotamus

So after posting this I went on vacation and I return to see over 200+ "Views", but 8 post in this topic. That kinda makes me sad..

I honestly thought more people would like this idea and there would be more discussion over these ideas. I have had the chance to log in and see that ZOS still has not fixed VMOL and there are numerous bugs introduced with Morrowind DLC.


Last night I noticed that the population is still frighteningly low at peak times compared to what it was. I actually thought Morrowind would bring people back to ESO, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

ZOS you need to do something.. Maybe not all the things I mention in this post, but SOMETHING has to change! This game should and could have been so much more. This game has SO much potential, but for ZOS to leave broken content BROKEN for so long and not address it is saying a lot to us as potential paying customers. "I still have not stopped my ESO+" But I intend to stop it this month. I was hoping Morrowind would at least fix SOME things but after seeing that it only added more problems I will cancel until I see the game going in a direction I want to be a part of. Guess it will be Neverwinter for my MMO fix

ZOS we have so very little end game content as it is and to see you guys not make it a priority to get it at least to a level we can complete it without 20 disconnects is flat out rude and unprofessional.

Nifty2g

What do you mean "again" trials have never been rewarding, simply there to show off #1

Funkopotamus

Nifty2g wrote: »

What do you mean "again" trials have never been rewarding, simply there to show off #1

How can you say that Moondancer/Infallible Aether/Twice-Fanged / Lunar Bastion are not "Rewarding"?

They are great sets to make every respective class better.

Insandros

Kali_Despoine wrote: »

tldt but I got the jest of it.

I don't see ESO going that direction because there is no cash grab involved there.

You want cosmetics? You need to pay $$$

h

Isn't how real life works, you want comestic you pay? Get your car pimp up, you'll pay, get your wife's face lift up as comestic only purpuse, shell pay, want you wife boob done, you'll pay, you want some liposucking, you'll pay, you want your tooth whitened, you'll pay, the list goes on, all cometic stuff, how lots not everyone can afford. So i don't mind the game to work like this, you don't wanna pay for cosmetic stuff, then stick to the core content and enjoy the game as is.

Vahrokh

I find the trials are decent enough. Sure, FAR less epic and rewarding than "gold times" WoW. Going around with T3 warrior shoulders immediately earned respect by everyone.

But those times are gone, we have to deal with it, MMOs as a genre are well past their peak.

What it'd be actually well within ESO's grasp, instead, would be to make trial items / veteran arenas prizes also purchasable with some tokens.

I really cannot be arsed to rerun an arena for the 100000000000 time just because the damn staff with the proper attributes just refuses to drop.

Nifty2g

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

What do you mean "again" trials have never been rewarding, simply there to show off #1

How can you say that Moondancer/Infallible Aether/Twice-Fanged / Lunar Bastion are not "Rewarding"?

They are great sets to make every respective class better.

Moondancer and twice fanged, that's it.
But the loot system is no where near rewarding, it takes months on end, it took me a year just to get a sharpened inferno moondancer staff, and i still never got a sharpened lightning from there. And I ran that place for a year 3 days a week.

How is that rewarding, it never was. Maybe if they had a token system where you can actually somewhat feel rewarded for your efforts.

We could at least get some gold mats or something from trials or whatever

Cêltic421

Like the idea of working towards cosmetic gear that's trial specific. But even that is boring and their are already motifs that has the styles of trials. They won't be adding this feature, it would take away from the crown store sells. ZoS can just put the mounts and other items and people will buy them.

I agree something needs to be done to make ESO end game fun and more rewarding. And all the Disconnects needs to be fixed.

Funkopotamus

Nifty2g wrote: »

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

What do you mean "again" trials have never been rewarding, simply there to show off #1

How can you say that Moondancer/Infallible Aether/Twice-Fanged / Lunar Bastion are not "Rewarding"?

They are great sets to make every respective class better.

Moondancer and twice fanged, that's it.
But the loot system is no where near rewarding, it takes months on end, it took me a year just to get a sharpened inferno moondancer staff, and i still never got a sharpened lightning from there. And I ran that place for a year 3 days a week.

How is that rewarding, it never was. Maybe if they had a token system where you can actually somewhat feel rewarded for your efforts.

We could at least get some gold mats or something from trials or whatever

That's what I like to see.. Discussion! Ideas being voiced. While I do not agree with the idea of loot being easier to get. "Sorry its just my view" and yes I too am still trying to get that last sharpened inferno Aether staff.

Why I am against is the fact that it has proven to be a death nail for MMO's.. Take WOW as a perfect example. Back in the day gear was actually HARD to get. So many people cried and cried on the forums about it taking multiple runs to gear out characters. Blizzard caved and the horrible Welfare gear handout system came out. And you know what happened? Those same people were on the forums within 2 months crying and screaming about boredom and having no reason to play anymore. WOWs population tanked soon after.. Anyone that was there back then can attest to the facts of this happening. Welfare gear handout systems are a horrible idea.

But as you said a token system would be a decent option, but allowing players to be completely maxed out gear wise within 5 runs would only make the game boring and stale faster.

I personally have no problem with still needing that inferno staff. It gives me something to actually work towards.

But having the system I have brought up would be great for Cosmetics mostly. It would give us a reason to run multiple times even after you have obtained all of the gear you wanted from a trial.. The cosmetics could be changed/updated every so often. Maybe even add new mounts as rewards. ZOS could even charge for them in the Crown Store for the impatient people. We just need life breathed into this game and I am simply trying to give positive ideas to do so.

skyhawk002

As a person in the same position (no HM MoL or AA yet), I have no interest in cosmetic rewards from trials and just enjoy doing them with a good group. I know Ixtyr on his website discusses this ad naseum but I personally would want a token system for sharpened weapons from these trials as others have voiced. I seldom see a sharpened "logical" weapon with my loot log on.

I disagree with OP

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

What do you mean "again" trials have never been rewarding, simply there to show off #1

How can you say that Moondancer/Infallible Aether/Twice-Fanged / Lunar Bastion are not "Rewarding"?

They are great sets to make every respective class better.

Moondancer and twice fanged, that's it.
But the loot system is no where near rewarding, it takes months on end, it took me a year just to get a sharpened inferno moondancer staff, and i still never got a sharpened lightning from there. And I ran that place for a year 3 days a week.

How is that rewarding, it never was. Maybe if they had a token system where you can actually somewhat feel rewarded for your efforts.

We could at least get some gold mats or something from trials or whatever

Anyone that was there back then can attest to the facts of this happening. Welfare gear handout systems are a horrible idea.

But as you said a token system would be a decent option, but allowing players to be completely maxed out gear wise within 5 runs would only make the game boring and stale faster.

I personally have no problem with still needing that inferno staff. It gives me something to actually work towards.

But having the system I have brought up would be great for Cosmetics mostly. It would give us a reason to run multiple times even after you have obtained all of the gear you wanted from a trial.. The cosmetics could be changed/updated every so often. Maybe even add new mounts as rewards. ZOS could even charge for them in the Crown Store for the impatient people. We just need life breathed into this game and I am simply trying to give positive ideas to do so.

I would not call the a token system a welfare system handout. That doesn't not even begin to describe the toxic RNG system that's currently in place.

As an aside, I do have sharpened inferno IA weapons and I do have 5 piece divines in Master architect and war machine after one week but that doesn't personally deter me from still running it. I've seen the same be true with others who run vMA and got their elusive weapons.

Strider_Roshin

Not a bad idea, it would certainly create more of an incentive to do trials.

One thing you may find surprising is that this Morrowind has inspired me to try to get into trials.

SoLooney

I agree, a lot of end game content isnt rewarding or worth doing anymore unless you want leaderboard spots or trying to farm trial gear. VMA is a hot mess with running it over and over again and not getting what you want. Just gets boring and tedious, becomes a job, not entertaining. But I stopped my eso plus, players have to speak with their wallets more than with their words. Im not paying membership for a buggy game and poor communication with the player base

Vahrokh

Funkopotamus wrote: »

ZOS could even charge for them in the Crown Store for the impatient people. We just need life breathed into this game and I am simply trying to give positive ideas to do so.

No. What's earned the hard way in months of showing up, learning strategies, wiping, paying repairs etc. etc. should not be easily bypassed and gotten by some fat credit card squatter.

KingYogi415

The phase you used in your title is meaningless doublespeak.

Trash thread is trash!

Funkopotamus

KingYogi415 wrote: »

The phase you used in your title is meaningless doublespeak.

Trash thread is trash!

"Phase"? What phase should it be on?


If you are trying to say phRase.* what exactly does your opinion with the "Phrase" I used for my title have to do with the content of the post?

So you are just jumping off a cliff and not going to offer anything useful to the thread other than to bash the title?


0_o

Get outa here lol!

KingYogi415

I missed a letter on my cell phone. Whoops.

You think ZOS really reads these or cares?

There have been threads like this since the game came out.

ZOS ruined trials when they took away all BOE drops.

Cheers mate!

Funkopotamus

KingYogi415 wrote: »

I missed a letter on my cell phone. Whoops.

You think ZOS really reads these or cares?

There have been threads like this since the game came out.

ZOS ruined trials when they took away all BOE drops.

Cheers mate!

Actually I know for a fact that ZOS do read these forums. I have received in game help within minutes after posting my issue here in general forum.

Also the fact that a number of post by Jes. herself along with a number of other DEVS on tthese forums lets you know that they do read them.

Not to mention that they refer to forum post during the ESO live cast. So yeah.. Yes I do "Think" ZOS reads these forums.
Why wouldn't they? They make their living by this game so being informed is only smart.

Do I expect them to post on every thread? No, but I promise you that they do read these forums.

KingYogi415

Nifty2g wrote: »

What do you mean "again" trials have never been rewarding, simply there to show off #1

I used to make millions selling gold raid jewelry.

Maybe define what you think is rewarding then?

ChuckyPayne

Do you know that you are talking about just a small part of the players?
Maybe 0.01%? Few hundred, maybe few thousand players.

Otherwise, you're right!

CherryCake

Stovahkiin wrote: »

N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

You wrote a lot

And the dumbing down of the world continues.

Okay then :x

ROFL xDDDDDDDDDD

Wifeaggro13

ChuckyPayne wrote: »

Do you know that you are talking about just a small part of the players?
Maybe 0.01%? Few hundred, maybe few thousand players.

Otherwise, you're right!

your pretty off base the only reason the numbers of end game lpayer has dropped is because they quit supporting that base in 2015/2016 Trials ran all day every day 24 7 openly in chats you could find a trial anytime day our nightcasuals were carried and they got thier gear and left and a new churn base came along . the population was far closer to 25% of the population doing them . the markets were flooded with Blue and purple jewelry sets and the community was thriving . they started focusing on the casual because your cheaper to develop for. your the cow they keep milking

Nelson_Rebel

It's a lost cause.


The developers (lead anyway) have already chosen their path how they want players to progress, or rather Regress, in this game.

With this patch they made it blatantly clear that content should NOT be fun. Only RNG grind is on their mind with spotchy disconnect's riddled throughout their content they are either to lazy or incompetent to fix.

I feel bad for the artist coders and writers there who actually are the only ones who have something substantial to show for in this game anymore.

I cancelled subscription last month. Just floating through the quest zone now as there's little incentive for anything else. Other games now have my attention with far better designs and systems.

The Elder Scrolls lore could only give so much to make up for such a bad implementation of game aspects. And this is where they will feel it. Already I see people completely not even logging in for days at a time, subs cancelled and any other form of content seems very rarely done or wanting to be re done again and again with the changes (Vvardenfell mainland is pretty empty for a new zone)

Sausage

Funkopotamus wrote: »

So we were running a vet trial the other night and a discussion began about how much needs to be done to make ESO a MMO that can retain its player base.

Funkopotamus wrote: »

So after posting this I went on vacation and I return to see over 200+ "Views", but 8 post in this topic. That kinda makes me sad..

You got it all wrong, this game was never intented to be a game what "retain its playerbase". It just isnt possible atm without causing tons of problems to the game, or go figure I dont think even Zen knows what the plan really is.