Warden Bear (complaints within)

cr4mf157

After playing around with the warden for a couple of days, I've decided that I like the class (though not as much as I had hoped) but I dislike the bear pet (which surprises me). In case ZOS is looking for input, here are my gripes with the pet.

1) Too small (and not fierce looking). The model for the pet is tiny and it doesn't look ferocious at all. The in-game models for mob bears are larger and generally looking meaner. I was hoping for a big, mean, grizzly bear. Instead I got Paddington Bear.

2) Morphed bears look bad. Again, totally subjective, but the glowing eyes for the eternal morph aren't great. The runes on the shoulders of the wild morph look awful.

3) It doesn't taunt. You gave us a relatively durable pet that never takes aggro. If this skill is going to take both ultimate slots to run (it does), then it should have a taunt that can be toggled on and off. For me, the lack of a taunt (and a toggle for that taunt!) makes the bear seem broken.

4) It misses attacks. The bear attacks quite slowly. Very regularly, a target will move as the bear begins its attack, resulting in a missed attack and a lot of lost time. I'm playing a druid-type magicka character in light armor, so I'm moving a lot (causing mobs to move a lot). I estimate I'm losing around 30-50% of the bear's damage here.

5) It gets lost. Every time I go over anything that isn't wide open, flat terrain, the bear gets lost or despawns for a while. Often, this results in me fighting numerous mobs/packs without the bear. I believe Sorcerers have to deal with this problem as well? Regardless, it's awful. Really, really awful.

6) Pet control is bad. I have to hold down a button and then click a mob to direct the bear. If I send the bear in ahead to attack a pack of mobs, the instant I issue the command, the pack aggros and charges me (not the bear). Shouldn't they at least wait until the bear engages to aggro, and then shouldn't they at least fight the bear for a nominal amount of time before dropping trou and trying to impale me with their meat lances? Something is amiss here. At the very least let us bind a key for "pet attack current target" or something. That wouldn't fix the other problems here, but it would at least make directing the pet a little less cumbersome.

A heavily armored melee warden would probably not have to worry about most of these above issues (cosmetics notwithstanding). Perhaps the bear was just designed specifically for that play style? It just seems like a missed opportunity. My two cents.

lagrue

cr4mf157 wrote: »

Instead I got Paddington Bear.

Marmalade provisioning recipe when?

red_emu

I have to say. I've encountered exact same problems. I loved playing my pet sorc in PvE because pets would take aggro and let me destroy my enemies with spells in the meantime. This was the only reason I bought Morrowind. For the pet spellcaster play style. What I got is a non-combat pet who disappears every 2 seconds and takes no aggro. I don't mind the cosmetics, but the mechanics are just useless I would gladly apply for refund but I already played for a few hours.

Thinking that this will be fixed any time soon is a fools hope so I'm back to my nerfed Magplar in warden costume such a shame.

AcadianPaladin

The 'instant aggro' as soon as you ask the bear to attack is the same as for sorc pets - and this 'feature' was introduced by the MW patch. Since there was not a peep about this change (from mobs would not go aggro until your pet actually starts attacking) in the patch notes, us pet sorcs are hoping it is an unintended (and irritating) bug that will be fixed.

On the pet size, I run with a clannfear and matriarch and would urge caution in what you ask for. The matriarch's wingspan is pretty big and routinely makes seeing what is going on difficult. Not to mention that large pets are kind of annoying for others in crowded areas in town and such.

Phinix1

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

The 'instant aggro' as soon as you ask the bear to attack is the same as for sorc pets - and this 'feature' was introduced by the MW patch. Since there was not a peep about this change (from mobs would not go aggro until your pet actually starts attacking) in the patch notes, us pet sorcs are hoping it is an unintended (and irritating) bug that will be fixed.

Are you kidding me? This is the ONE thing that makes pets actually useful!

You can command them to run around gathering up everything then run in and get AOE down before everything switches to you. It requires some setup, and patience with the relatively clunky command pet interface, but to me this was one of the best changes in Morrowind from the PTS.

It made ZERO logical sense that I could send my attack pet in from total stealth and things 40 meters away would psychically run straight for ME.

Transairion

1-2 are entirely subjective cosmetic opinions.

3 It was never claimed to taunt. It's a DPS Ultimate, why would it taunt? The Storm Antronach Ult (which is temporary but still has a healthbar, mind you) used to taunt on release, but Trial-goers got that feature removed because mass spam of the Ult caused bosses to enrage from overtaunting (also removed) and just messed up the tank's agro table.

4 Valid point but I'm guessing you're referring to the "channeled" swipe attack, not the base attacks.

5 Combat Pets tend not to get lost unless you're in a near-constant state of combat, and you leave them behind fighting something. This is a subjective opinion, of course, but the only times Sorc Summons "get lost" is in PvP or glitched through a wall for me.

6 Welcome to Combat Pets, you should be grateful this patch added directing Combat Pets to attacking the target you heavy attack. Before the "tedious manual targeting" you mentioned, we didn't have any control at all... console still doesn't have any control until Morrowind and heavy-attack targeting is added for them as well.

cr4mf157

I would probably be okay with the mobs charging instantly when the pet attack order is issued if they attacked the pet. They usually just run right at me instead, though, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

Maybe you're right about a smaller pet being better for view purposes. Still, it just seems so diminutive as is.

Tryxus

cr4mf157 wrote: »

1) Too small (and not fierce looking). The model for the pet is tiny and it doesn't look ferocious at all. The in-game models for mob bears are larger and generally looking meaner. I was hoping for a big, mean, grizzly bear. Instead I got Paddington Bear.

This

I just fought the Bear World Boss in Glenumbra (Graufang) and he made my Guardian look like a midget

Bigger Bears Pl0x

Phinix1

cr4mf157 wrote: »

I would probably be okay with the mobs charging instantly when the pet attack order is issued if they attacked the pet. They usually just run right at me instead, though, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

Maybe you're right about a smaller pet being better for view purposes. Still, it just seems so diminutive as is.

This was thankfully fixed from the PTS. But, ONLY if you are not yet in combat with the mob in question. If you start combat by sending in your bear, they will attack the bear until you attack.

This is good.

cr4mf157

Transairion wrote: »

1-2 are entirely subjective cosmetic opinions.

3 It was never claimed to taunt. It's a DPS Ultimate, why would it taunt? The Storm Antronach Ult (which is temporary but still has a healthbar, mind you) used to taunt on release, but Trial-goers got that feature removed because mass spam of the Ult caused bosses to enrage from overtaunting (also removed) and just messed up the tank's agro table.

4 Valid point but I'm guessing you're referring to the "channeled" swipe attack, not the base attacks.

5 Combat Pets tend not to get lost unless you're in a near-constant state of combat, and you leave them behind fighting something. This is a subjective opinion, of course, but the only times Sorc Summons "get lost" is in PvP or glitched through a wall.

6 Welcome to Combat Pets, you should be grateful this patch added directing Combat Pets to attacking the target you heavy attack. Before the "tedious manual targeting" you mentioned, we didn't have any control at all... console still doesn't have any control until Morrowind and heavy-attack targeting is added for them as well.

I didn't really make this list for the sake of argument, considering that most of it is (and was intended to be) subjective. That said, regarding the missed attacks, I'm actually referring to regular attacks as well as the triggered "ultimate" execute attack. Interestingly enough, the triggered attack seems to miss less often than the standard, automatic attacks.

The combat pets getting lost is actually one of the points that is not subjective at all, though the level of annoyance that any particular player might experience certainly is. The thing just disappears periodically and/or gets caught on terrain. It isn't frequent enough that I would declare the pet useless as a result, but it's enough to annoy me.

I don't actually like having heavy attacks direct the pet. I don't like having to hold a button and then click to direct the pet either, but having the pet switch targets every time I heavy attack makes the whole thing worse for me. What I would like to see is a keybind to tell the pet to attack the player's current target. Then "pet attack" could be used just like any other skill. It's probably not like this specifically to accommodate console players, but just because it has to be clunky on console shouldn't mean it has to be that way on PC, too.

AcadianPaladin

Phinix1 wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

The 'instant aggro' as soon as you ask the bear to attack is the same as for sorc pets - and this 'feature' was introduced by the MW patch. Since there was not a peep about this change (from mobs would not go aggro until your pet actually starts attacking) in the patch notes, us pet sorcs are hoping it is an unintended (and irritating) bug that will be fixed.

Are you kidding me? This is the ONE thing that makes pets actually useful!

You can command them to run around gathering up everything then run in and get AOE down before everything switches to you. It requires some setup, and patience with the relatively clunky command pet interface, but to me this was one of the best changes in Morrowind from the PTS.

It made ZERO logical sense that I could send my attack pet in from total stealth and things 40 meters away would psychically run straight for ME.

I'm pretty sure we are misunderstanding each other but want the same thing. I loved launching my clannfear to attack while I remained stealthed until he had full, solid aggro. Only then would I open up with the thunderstorm of damage. I hate the current change and hope it is a bug.

Phinix1

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I'm pretty sure we are misunderstanding each other but want the same thing. I loved launching my clannfear to attack while I remained stealthed until he had full, solid aggro. Only then would I open up with the thunderstorm of damage. I hate the current change and hope it is a bug.

This is how it works now. If you send your pet in FIRST, then things will not attack you until you actually do damage to them. I think healing aggro MAY also pull things, but usually the pet's damage is enough to prevent that.

If you are already in combat with things, the pets won't taunt off you though. Unless they do enough damage to overshadow whatever you did to the mobs first.

Kiwi

my only problem with the bear is when i stealth it doesnt disappear
it aggros everything in sight and if i have a stealth mission i have to remove it from my bar so it wont get me caught

zzz how did they not see this coming?

subtlezeroub17_ESO

Actually, I'd rather the bear not taunt. If it does, then it becomes a liability in group pve. Not cool.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

My gripe is that banks are now full of bears (and they take up a lot of room). It was bad enough with sorcs and their pets.

catsgomeow

ESO is the only game ive played that has pet classes with no direct pet control on a bar, i absolutely thought they would of put in control functions for the new bear pet, but once again nothing, no direct commands no passive stances like dont engage or run free or defend etc, thats just lazy.

Imryll

Larger bears would be a nuisance, not only in banks but in group combat. I want to be able to see what's going on, not just a mass of bear rumps.

rotaugen454

Imryll wrote: »

Larger bears would be a nuisance, not only in banks but in group combat. I want to be able to see what's going on, not just a mass of bear rumps.

Hey Boo Boo! Does this hat and tie make me look fat?

Gargath

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

My gripe is that banks are now full of bears (and they take up a lot of room). It was bad enough with sorcs and their pets.

At least we have now less parrots around .

NordSwordnBoard

My Bear's got no nose!

"How does it smell?"

Awful...

TheRealPotoroo

Transairion wrote: »

3 It was never claimed to taunt. It's a DPS Ultimate, why would it taunt?

Because the weakest class around desperately needs something to distract the bosses.

BTW, general question, how the hell do you control pets? The game mentions its supposedly possible but doesn't say how anywhere I've seen.

max_only

Press Y by default to tell it what enemy to attack. Can be changed in key bindings setting.

Avalon

I haven't even played MW yet, or the changes... but something that has always bothered me since I started thinking about the changes: since there will be a much heavier reliance on heavy attacks, right? But, they changed pet controls so that the pet auto targets on whoever is being heavy attacked by the controller. So, seems like this could cause severe issues where the pets will run chaotically around the combat from target to target, never really engaging anyone in some cases where there are a lot of adds, or targets that run in between you and the main target, etc?

starkerealm

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

The 'instant aggro' as soon as you ask the bear to attack is the same as for sorc pets - and this 'feature' was introduced by the MW patch. Since there was not a peep about this change (from mobs would not go aggro until your pet actually starts attacking) in the patch notes, us pet sorcs are hoping it is an unintended (and irritating) bug that will be fixed.

On the pet size, I run with a clannfear and matriarch and would urge caution in what you ask for. The matriarch's wingspan is pretty big and routinely makes seeing what is going on difficult. Not to mention that large pets are kind of annoying for others in crowded areas in town and such.

This is the main reason I don't run the Matriarch unless I specifically need it "right now." Well, that and the singing. The Clanfear's pretty well behaved overall, though.

Phinix1

catsgomeow wrote: »

ESO is the only game ive played that has pet classes with no direct pet control on a bar, i absolutely thought they would of put in control functions for the new bear pet, but once again nothing, no direct commands no passive stances like dont engage or run free or defend etc, thats just lazy.

Under controls you can set a keybind to "Command Pet." Hold this button down, move your target reticle over an enemy, and left click to tell them to attack it. Enemies you are not in combat with or haven't attacked yet that you have your pet attack in this way will attack your pet, not you, until you do something to pull aggro.

The pets will not taunt off you or any tank, but things will stay attacking them if you initiate combat with pets using Command Pet until you do some damage.

Phinix1

starkerealm wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

The 'instant aggro' as soon as you ask the bear to attack is the same as for sorc pets - and this 'feature' was introduced by the MW patch. Since there was not a peep about this change (from mobs would not go aggro until your pet actually starts attacking) in the patch notes, us pet sorcs are hoping it is an unintended (and irritating) bug that will be fixed.

On the pet size, I run with a clannfear and matriarch and would urge caution in what you ask for. The matriarch's wingspan is pretty big and routinely makes seeing what is going on difficult. Not to mention that large pets are kind of annoying for others in crowded areas in town and such.

This is the main reason I don't run the Matriarch unless I specifically need it "right now." Well, that and the singing. The Clanfear's pretty well behaved overall, though.

I still don't comprehend how this could possibly be seen as a bad thing. Maybe with the matriarch since they are squishy, but just don't have them start combat then. They will attack whatever you do automatically. Or you can use Command Pet AFTER you pull to have her hit something specific without pulling aggro.

Pets only pull aggro if you START combat with them. It is good to have more options. Without this mechanics tank pets like Bear and Clannfear would be totally worthless. More so with bear since he doesn't give you a heal.

Rhoric

This is why they really don't listen to us. None of you are really happy about anything they do. So they do what they think is best and just go with it.

subtlezeroub17_ESO

Phinix1 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

The 'instant aggro' as soon as you ask the bear to attack is the same as for sorc pets - and this 'feature' was introduced by the MW patch. Since there was not a peep about this change (from mobs would not go aggro until your pet actually starts attacking) in the patch notes, us pet sorcs are hoping it is an unintended (and irritating) bug that will be fixed.

On the pet size, I run with a clannfear and matriarch and would urge caution in what you ask for. The matriarch's wingspan is pretty big and routinely makes seeing what is going on difficult. Not to mention that large pets are kind of annoying for others in crowded areas in town and such.

This is the main reason I don't run the Matriarch unless I specifically need it "right now." Well, that and the singing. The Clanfear's pretty well behaved overall, though.

I still don't comprehend how this could possibly be seen as a bad thing. Maybe with the matriarch since they are squishy, but just don't have them start combat then. They will attack whatever you do automatically. Or you can use Command Pet AFTER you pull to have her hit something specific without pulling aggro.

Pets only pull aggro if you START combat with them. It is good to have more options. Without this mechanics tank pets like Bear and Clannfear would be totally worthless. More so with bear since he doesn't give you a heal.

The bear isn't for tanking though lol.

ADarklore

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

The 'instant aggro' as soon as you ask the bear to attack is the same as for sorc pets - and this 'feature' was introduced by the MW patch. Since there was not a peep about this change (from mobs would not go aggro until your pet actually starts attacking) in the patch notes, us pet sorcs are hoping it is an unintended (and irritating) bug that will be fixed.

On the pet size, I run with a clannfear and matriarch and would urge caution in what you ask for. The matriarch's wingspan is pretty big and routinely makes seeing what is going on difficult. Not to mention that large pets are kind of annoying for others in crowded areas in town and such.

This is the main reason I don't run the Matriarch unless I specifically need it "right now." Well, that and the singing. The Clanfear's pretty well behaved overall, though.

I still don't comprehend how this could possibly be seen as a bad thing. Maybe with the matriarch since they are squishy, but just don't have them start combat then. They will attack whatever you do automatically. Or you can use Command Pet AFTER you pull to have her hit something specific without pulling aggro.

Pets only pull aggro if you START combat with them. It is good to have more options. Without this mechanics tank pets like Bear and Clannfear would be totally worthless. More so with bear since he doesn't give you a heal.

The bear isn't for tanking though lol.

It is when you're playing SOLO content.

Further, keep hearing people say that Bear doesn't keep aggro, but they're the ones who clearly don't know how to command the bear using the 'Y' command. I've been running quests and command the bear to attack, I've had enemy NPCs run right into me, turn around and begin attacking the bear from range... completely ignoring me. I've also had the bear maintain aggro even when I was attacking, but I believe there is a set 'aggro dump' that occurs... either after a set period of time or if you do a certain amount of damage on a target... but the bear usually regains aggro after a brief period of time.

IF I don't send the bear in first with 'Y' command, in a mob the targeted NPC will focus on the bear while the rest of the mob focuses on me... at least briefly... before turning their attentions back on the bear- if they live that long... which usually they don't.

cr4mf157

ADarklore wrote: »

I've also had the bear maintain aggro even when I was attacking, but I believe there is a set 'aggro dump' that occurs... either after a set period of time or if you do a certain amount of damage on a target... but the bear usually regains aggro after a brief period of time.

IF I don't send the bear in first with 'Y' command, in a mob the targeted NPC will focus on the bear while the rest of the mob focuses on me... at least briefly... before turning their attentions back on the bear- if they live that long... which usually they don't.

This just isn't my experience at all. Since my original post, I have had a few mobs focus on the bear until I do an attack, but this is not the norm.

Luvtantius_Micocia

I got rid of my bear since it magically dissapears when I fight any which boss, and then reappears right after. On many occasions it also runs into a wall to come out after I moved for a few dozen meters. Or it drags 15 meters behind me and decides to attack a respawned mob which makes me have to run back and save my bear from being killed. After 3 days of the same I decided to change my ultimate ability ...