Do you think the changes in Morrowind for stat recovery and regen will encourge more hybrid builds?

Savos_Saren

Morrowind has definitely redefined our focus on health/magic/stamina regeneration and how we can recover those pools. It has certainly encouraged players not to "stack" one certain pool now since many of the skills that would refill those pools are based off of character level versus refilling the pool from a percentage of it. Do you feel like this will encourage people to spread their pools a little more evenly?

Waffennacht

jaburns wrote: »

Morrowind has definitely redefined our focus on health/magic/stamina regeneration and how we can recover those pools. It has certainly encouraged players not to "stack" one certain pool now since many of the skills that would refill those pools are based off of character level versus refilling the pool from a percentage of it. Do you feel like this will encourage people to spread their pools a little more evenly?

Refined yours maybe, we haven't been changed yet

Savos_Saren

@Waffennacht

Take a glance at the new patch notes for the upcoming changes for Xbox/PS. You'll see that there are some pretty interesting changes indeed!

Waffennacht

jaburns wrote: »

@Waffennacht

Take a glance at the new patch notes for the upcoming changes for Xbox/PS. You'll see that there are some pretty interesting changes indeed!

My point is, I'm sick of the forums leaving us behind, as if we even had the opportunity to even see wtf you PC players are talking about

Savos_Saren

Waffennacht wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

@Waffennacht

Take a glance at the new patch notes for the upcoming changes for Xbox/PS. You'll see that there are some pretty interesting changes indeed!

My point is, I'm sick of the forums leaving us behind, as if we even had the opportunity to even see wtf you PC players are talking about

I apologize that I own a PC? If it's any consolation- I use the XBox controller to play... And, yes, my keyboard-and-mouse wife judges me. Apparently, I'm an "abomination". I would be in the same boat with you if ZoS didn't have the beta console setup.

Waffennacht

jaburns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

@Waffennacht

Take a glance at the new patch notes for the upcoming changes for Xbox/PS. You'll see that there are some pretty interesting changes indeed!

My point is, I'm sick of the forums leaving us behind, as if we even had the opportunity to even see wtf you PC players are talking about

I apologize that I own a PC? If it's any consolation- I use the XBox controller to play... And, yes, my keyboard-and-mouse wife judges me. Apparently, I'm an "abomination". I would be in the same boat with you if ZoS didn't have the beta console setup.

That's what's keeping you alive... Xbox assassin's have been called off... Lol, you're funny.

Code2501

Nah.

CavalryPK

More hybrid build are posible, but they will not be optimal.

Savos_Saren

You know, @CavalryPK , I still like the idea of hybrid builds. I think ZoS will come up with more creative ways to "ease" us into hybrids vice stacking a singlar resource. We'll see, though.

CavalryPK

jaburns wrote: »

You know, @CavalryPK , I still like the idea of hybrid builds. I think ZoS will come up with more creative ways to "ease" us into hybrids vice stacking a singlar resource. We'll see, though.

We will see how this goes. As long as we have max resources giving us more dmg the hybrid build will never be truly unlocked.

Savos_Saren

CavalryPK wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

You know, @CavalryPK , I still like the idea of hybrid builds. I think ZoS will come up with more creative ways to "ease" us into hybrids vice stacking a singlar resource. We'll see, though.

We will see how this goes. As long as we have max resources giving us more dmg the hybrid build will never be truly unlocked.

Indeed. Eventually, I'd hope, ZoS will differentiate between max pools and damage. Much like the old Elder Scrolls games take into effect:

Agility.
Endurance.
Intelligence.
Luck.
Personality.
Speed.
Strength.
Willpower.

But, let's just enjoy the mechanic we have so far- try to make great builds and anticipate new classes, races, and attributes at some point. ESO is an ever-evolving game... if it wants to stay in the standing with other MMORPGs- it'll learn to adapt.

mvffins

Resource management is harder for hybrid builds than more specialized ones in the first place so in actuality the patch notes further hurt hybrids.

STEVIL

no

Qbiken

STEVIL wrote: »

no

I agree with @STEVIL for once. Short, consitance and right to the point.

Tasear

I was always a hybrid and I feel more powerful with Morrowind!


http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/dark-priestess-pug-proof/

Omnipresent

my hyblade builds even better since the patch surprisingly. only ran into minor sustain issues playing with no cp.

Masel

I tested a lot of different hybrid builds on the PTS with new and older sets and the problem they all have is... That they hit like a wet noodle. Due to the fact that you get rewarded so much for wearing 5 pieces of one armor type and damage scaling from your resources, you will always have a big disadvantage. Also, given that cost reduction and recovery also scale with armor pieces worn... Sets like pelinal could be good, but they're not due to the design they have. It sets both damage values equally, so it's supposed to be a DD set, but it doesn't give any bonus to either damage stat or resource pool.

I literally stacked all weapon and spell damage sources you can have to get up to 5000 weapon damage, but it still hit like a noodle. You can top 20k dps, but that's it. The newer sets designed for hybrids will jot change that as one of them is a crafted one and also doesn't give enough spell or weapon damage. You need double the buffs and double the stat power.

Wardens are maybe the worst class to make a hybrid build by the way. They don't synergise with pelinal at all. No spell power bonus (like sorcerers have), no way to get certain buffs for magicka and stamina skills at once without having to cast tons of buffs...

Also you can't combine all stamina and magicka buffs on potions. You can't make one that gives you weapon and spell damage, or one that gives a resource back and gives you weapon and spell critical.

On top of that, the design of cp makes impossible to reach the same damage boost that other builds get. Both stamina and magicka boosting cps are in the mage tree. If stamina was in the thief and magicka would be in the mage, we'd have a totally different situation and you could maybe make it work.

So in order to make them viable you'd need:

More Alchemy Ingredients, Different CP tree design, improved sets for hybrid builds and classes that actually synergise well with it.

The only game aspect where hybrid is viable is overland content and maybe dungeons and pledges... Trials? Nope...

Sneaky-Snurr

I believe so to a certain extent as I myself have changed a few of my characters from stam/mag-centric builds to hybrids.

They're quite a gem in the current combat environment. Only bad thing about them is of course the ridiculously low regen, that can only be offset by changing your playstyle but we're only human so sometimes I kinda drift off astray to play wildly with no regards to anything (including resource management) and that'd be the death of me lol.

But all in all, hybrids are slowly making a comeback and I urge everyone to at least try it out.
It's a very fun build as you can have viable access to EVERYTHING with little concerns regarding your ability choices and their opportunity costs. They're basically minimised!

Flameheart

jaburns wrote: »

Morrowind has definitely redefined our focus on health/magic/stamina regeneration and how we can recover those pools. It has certainly encouraged players not to "stack" one certain pool now since many of the skills that would refill those pools are based off of character level versus refilling the pool from a percentage of it. Do you feel like this will encourage people to spread their pools a little more evenly?

No, not in PvE trial and hard vet instance enviroment.

1. DDs still have to build in max dps and that even more centered and unforgiving as before and that means concentration on one pool. One rotation mistake will make a real difference now.
2. Healers have to build as before with much more concentration on sustain
3. Tanks still have to build for ressources, sustain and damage mitigation. The only new thing here might the upocoming stacking health builds, because health is the only stat that still scales with some skills.

In fact it's as before, but with far less freedom, because formerly you had some scope and could master some content without using a perfect build, now - with the restriction due to sustain - you have to build even more meta, because the missing damage will be remarkable in some instances, raids and trials.

So ZoS has achieved the following:

Less freedom by making content harder and longer lasting fights. Congratulations.

Chilly-McFreeze

mvffins wrote: »

Resource management is harder for hybrid builds than more specialized ones in the first place so in actuality the patch notes further hurt hybrids.

I see where you are coming from. The thought that a hybrid will have to invest in both regen stats leaves 'em with lower regen overall but mind that you won't burn through your stam-pool / mag-pool as fast as a pure build 'cause you can choose where your dmg comes from.

Within the current patch I haven't digged up my hybrid sorc but for the homestead patch I didn't invest a single glyph or set boni in regen and still never run out of resources while soloing stuff. Couldn't say the same about my mSorc and sSorc (when not using dark exchange).

The new sets like shacklebreaker also gives regen boni, making up a bit for the loss of cost reduction cp. Also frontloading cp boost both regens rather quickly. If you manage to make a hybrid dot build you will also have less "opportunity costs"/ loss of dmg (in comparison to pure builds ) now.

So I wouldn't say hybrids have it now harder than before. At least in PvE. PvP however... I tried to make it work there several times. Was always fun but overall the gap between pure and hybrid is far bigger there.

Turelus

I think it might make them more compelling for some. However due to the damage scaling from ability scores it's still better to stack one.

If they had damage only come from spell/weapon damage stat, weapon attack damage only from your weapons, resources only how much you can spam, then rebalanced the whole game... I think we could have Hybrids be viable again.

The_Duke

Ive run hybrid builds since pelinals was released and they can be effective in PvP once you know how to maximise using them together.

On my Dark elf DK hybrid I use dizzying swing to proc flame whip. Thats a lot of burst. Crit rush, burning embers into swing and whip and it can game over pretty quick.

On my stam sorc hybrid I run poison inject and curse on my bow bar and proc a frag into a crit rush and execute. The curse frag and crit rush all can hit close enough to do serious damage. Also you can hard cast a frag and just before it goes off hit dizzy swing. The amimation of frag gets saved from the channel and they both hit at once.

Darlgon

SIgh../jumps on soapbox

MORROWIND is NOT to blame for this...

Your complaints are about Update 14.

OP, Please change the title.

/hops off soapbox

SirMewser

Hybrid builds?
If you're a tank, hybrid builds work well defensively.
For a healer it's not reliable for veteran/trials.
As a DPS there has been slowly improving movement that supports this role, the problem is that to optimize as a DPS you will require a great expense in; time, gear, tri-stat glyphs, and testing. The end result is generally lower DPS than of a min/max build (if you care), otherwise, it's doable and can be fun for solo/small group play but not as rewarding.

Pros:

• Unlike magicka builds, you may not have to worry about absence of stamina for CC break/mobility.
• Unlike stamina builds, your magicka utility spells that provide raw damage/healing push slightly larger numbers.
• You can draw abilities from two resources, rather than burning one pool.
• The arsenal of abilities you can choose from range greater than of a single resource focused build.
• There are hybrid based sets to support you.

Cons:

• Unlike single resource focused builds, raw damage/healing abilities are not (cannot) be optimized.
• Like single resource focused builds, you have the same amount of skill slots as a hybrid which limits your arsenal to the same quantity combinations of self buffs and damage abilities, thus there is no quantitative nor qualitative benefit despite having two resources.
• You have to find a method of managing two resources (ei; magic recovery enchants with heavy attacks of a stamina based weapon).
• Resource multipliers are less rewarding.
• Overhaul there is too much "splitting" of values which is ironic as you are accepting the use of different resources.

There is nothing stopping you from having fun in the game, if it's the path you choose, no one should fault you but do expect limitations on the content you can do.

Savos_Saren

Darlgon wrote: »

SIgh../jumps on soapbox

MORROWIND is NOT to blame for this...

Your complaints are about Update 14.

OP, Please change the title.

/hops off soapbox

What complaints? The title isn't a complaint- it's a question. I usually play DK Tanks, anyway- so anything that encourages hybrid builds is a bonus to me.

Vaoh

Hybrids are surprisingly usable in No CP, especially Battlegrounds.

However, you need to have a strong build with a clever burst combination. It cannot be Hybrid for the sake of being Hybrid. Also, it is almost guaranteed that what you are trying to do would work better if you made normal Stamina or Magicka build.

Yes, Hybrid builds are far more encouraged now than before, and I have been thinking up some surprisingly strong Hybrids builds for when I get to play BGs on console

Xvorg

The_Duke wrote: »

Ive run hybrid builds since pelinals was released and they can be effective in PvP once you know how to maximise using them together.

On my Dark elf DK hybrid I use dizzying swing to proc flame whip. Thats a lot of burst. Crit rush, burning embers into swing and whip and it can game over pretty quick.

On my stam sorc hybrid I run poison inject and curse on my bow bar and proc a frag into a crit rush and execute. The curse frag and crit rush all can hit close enough to do serious damage. Also you can hard cast a frag and just before it goes off hit dizzy swing. The amimation of frag gets saved from the channel and they both hit at once.

You don't need Pelinal's

I have another DK combo: (with a flame staff) Full heavy + Destro reach/clench + (swapto 2H) + Crit rush + whip

The_Duke

Xvorg wrote: »

The_Duke wrote: »

Ive run hybrid builds since pelinals was released and they can be effective in PvP once you know how to maximise using them together.

On my Dark elf DK hybrid I use dizzying swing to proc flame whip. Thats a lot of burst. Crit rush, burning embers into swing and whip and it can game over pretty quick.

On my stam sorc hybrid I run poison inject and curse on my bow bar and proc a frag into a crit rush and execute. The curse frag and crit rush all can hit close enough to do serious damage. Also you can hard cast a frag and just before it goes off hit dizzy swing. The amimation of frag gets saved from the channel and they both hit at once.

You don't need Pelinal's

I have another DK combo: (with a flame staff) Full heavy + Destro reach/clench + (swapto 2H) + Crit rush + whip

Yes but do you have 4k weapon and spell damage without it?

Chilly-McFreeze

The_Duke wrote: »

Ive run hybrid builds since pelinals was released and they can be effective in PvP once you know how to maximise using them together.

On my Dark elf DK hybrid I use dizzying swing to proc flame whip. Thats a lot of burst. Crit rush, burning embers into swing and whip and it can game over pretty quick.

On my stam sorc hybrid I run poison inject and curse on my bow bar and proc a frag into a crit rush and execute. The curse frag and crit rush all can hit close enough to do serious damage. Also you can hard cast a frag and just before it goes off hit dizzy swing. The amimation of frag gets saved from the channel and they both hit at once.

Theoretical question: if you would do your frag + dizzing combo with wrecking blow, would the hold back frag be empowered?

Draqone

I am planning a somewhat hybrid build on my warden but I've yet to test it since my Argonian warden is only level 20.

I plan to complete vDSA on it so watch the leaderboards for the soon-to-be-infamous "He-Bears-Arms" in around a weeks time!

I might post my build idea to get some critique on it before I finalise it.

The_Duke

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

The_Duke wrote: »

Ive run hybrid builds since pelinals was released and they can be effective in PvP once you know how to maximise using them together.

On my Dark elf DK hybrid I use dizzying swing to proc flame whip. Thats a lot of burst. Crit rush, burning embers into swing and whip and it can game over pretty quick.

On my stam sorc hybrid I run poison inject and curse on my bow bar and proc a frag into a crit rush and execute. The curse frag and crit rush all can hit close enough to do serious damage. Also you can hard cast a frag and just before it goes off hit dizzy swing. The amimation of frag gets saved from the channel and they both hit at once.

Theoretical question: if you would do your frag + dizzing combo with wrecking blow, would the hold back frag be empowered?

Ill switch dizzy to empowered and find out.