@ZOS, Please Comment on Repentance Problem (Patch v3.0.5)

GrumpyDuckling

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_RichLambert

Please comment on this - it must be an oversight that wasn't intended, right?

There is a problem with the changes to Repentance in the Morrowind v3.0.5 Patch that penalizes grouped Templars because now only one Templar can restore Stamina from dead bodies - meaning that Templar players have to compete with one another for stamina return. This makes Templar the only class in the game that has to compete with teammates to avoid ZERO stamina return outside of minor/major buffs. Every other class has guaranteed stamina return:

Dragonknights have guaranteed stamina return from Battle Roar + Helping Hands passives.
Nightblades have guaranteed stamina return (15% recovery) from Refreshing Shadows + Leeching Strikes.
Sorcerers have guaranteed stamina return (20% recovery) from Daedric Protection passive.
Wardens have guaranteed stamina return (12% recovery) from Flourish passive + Nature's Gift passive + Bull Netch.

aetherial_heavenn

We 'abuse repentance' and must be punished

Everyone can just throw orbs for stam now, why would you need repentance?.....lol

Prospero_ESO

Lol, this is so stupid that chances are high that it is working as intended

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

This is a major problem, there ​is already a lack of stam temps in the game this will kill them.

WhiteMage

It's not an oversight and it was intended.

Joy_Division

It's not an oversight.

ZoS was told as soon as the patch notes hit that this was a dumb change that would make templars on the same team fight each other over corpses.

Were you expecting a templar skill to work fluidly and logically or something?

GreenSoup2HoT

One templar giving a whole group stamina back for killing one person?.... in my opinion that was not balanced. Sure in small scale it helped against large scale but in the hands of large scale it was to strong.

Caltops can be stacked now though. If enough stamina templars roll together, nobody can touch their house.

jrgray93

ZOS is determined to drive all of us long-time templar players out of the game. As usual, they show a complete lack of understanding of their own game. This change really baffled me when I read it. RIP templars.

casparian

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

One templar giving a whole group stamina back for killing one person?.... in my opinion that was not balanced. Sure in small scale it helped against large scale but in the hands of large scale it was to strong.

Caltops can be stacked now though. If enough stamina templars roll together, nobody can touch their house.

Did you even read the post? This thread is not about stamplars giving resources to their team. It is about the fact that only one stamplar in the area can use Repentance on a corpse, preventing a stamplar from recovering resources if there is another stamplar around. It's the same as if Sorcerers were prevented from using Dark Deal by the fact another Sorcerer had already used the skill.

cavakthestampede

In PvE, there will rarely be 2 stamina templars grouped, even in trials (and trials builds won't be built around repentance).

In PvP, it is a great change to stop 1 or 2 stamina templars from full stam recovering an entire zerg off every corpse they make.

Or, to the OP, prevent anybody from getting the idea of an all stamplar zerg spamming repentance. With resource scarcity this would mean either reducing the stam return to the user heavily or limiting the resource itself, i.e. already repentanced corpses.

Koensol

Yea... I don't even have the words to say how I feel about this nerf. A group game where people will have to compete against one another in order to use their sustain ability. I'm not joking, it is THE most insanely idiotic balance change ever to go live on this game.

Aionna

cavakthestampede wrote: »

In PvE, there will rarely be 2 stamina templars grouped, even in trials (and trials builds won't be built around repentance).

In PvP, it is a great change to stop 1 or 2 stamina templars from full stam recovering an entire zerg off every corpse they make.

Or, to the OP, prevent anybody from getting the idea of an all stamplar zerg spamming repentance. With resource scarcity this would mean either reducing the stam return to the user heavily or limiting the resource itself, i.e. already repentanced corpses.

Why is it great for pvp? They took away group utility and when you repent you don't restore stamina to the entire group, not to mention that it now scales to your level and not max resources! Also it isn't a "free" skill you have to kill an npc or a player to get back stamina.
Templars don't have passives to get back resources, we only have repentance for stamina which was circumstantial even before the patch since it didn't help much in boss fights and now adding to that another templar mustn't be in the same team or close by!
Fyi not only stamplars use repentance.

WhiteMage wrote: »

It's not an oversight and it was intended.

I agree it isn't an oversight, they just don't care about the class and the only thing they do is nerf it. I have seen so many forum posts about what is wrong with skills and passives and they don't acknowledge the fact that the class needs some love. On the other hand, when there are posts to nerf templars, they immediately take out the butcher knife.
After so many patches and seeing how much they took away from templars in this patch, and the fact that they stated that a skill like healing ritual is useful, I have resigned to the idea that they will ever do something positive for the class.

Turelus

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

We 'abuse repentance' and must be punished

This made me thing of Pathfinder RPG so much. Stupid Paladins.

Prospero_ESO

Anasion wrote: »

I agree it isn't an oversight, they just don't care about the class and the only thing they do is nerf it.

In order to sell the warden to the people they had to make him outstand. And because wrobel is a sales clerk, they did that through *** up the templar. It's so obvious, they disn't even try to hide it. Thats how much they are respecting their players.

WhiteMage

I have an idea... what if they changed it so that everyone in range with repentance slotted got stam back, instead of just the user? I don't really have a horse in this race because I don't repent, but it seems like a good compromise to me.

SRTtoZ

Honestly I just removed it from my bar, well, I ended up using the magikasteal morph instead since just giving Stamina to myself is not worth keeping it around.

mandricus

cavakthestampede wrote: »

In PvP, it is a great change to stop 1 or 2 stamina templars from full stam recovering an entire zerg off every corpse they make.
Or, to the OP, prevent anybody from getting the idea of an all stamplar zerg spamming repentance. With resource scarcity this would mean either reducing the stam return to the user heavily or limiting the resource itself, i.e. already repentanced corpses.

Just a suggestion... may be a cap on the max number of allies (e.g. 6) that could benefit from stamina recovery would have done the trick whitout killing the skill completely.

PascalB

mandricus wrote: »

Just a suggestion... may be a cap on the max number of allies (e.g. 6) that could benefit from stamina recovery would have done the trick whitout killing the skill completely.

That sounds like a good idea to me. Other than that they could also simply reduce the stamina recovered by that skill.
I'm just playing PVE and I can just agree what was mentioned before that repentance isn't even usefull for most of the bossfights.
But for trashpulls especially larger ones it does help and utilize a lot. And I don't think it's too OP since you can just use a corpse one time and its gone.
But why is it such a problem for people in PVP?
Especially when equal groups competing each other (not talking about those lame zergs) where its actually hard to kill people, so why not getting rewarded by a stamina pill for the group? (well templars can also repentance their own dead people) so in the end anyone can benefit you just have to be quick enough. I personally can't imagine that a single skill like that would turn the tables here. And if so, why not just ban this skill from PVP then? Problem solved and PVE people still can use it.

nickl413

Almost any idea would be better than what they did. I get that the skill was very powerful but why not just tone down the amount of stam it returns? Or if you only want the caster to get stam, allow multiple templars to repent the same dead bodies. As it is now, like someone said, it's like a sorc not being able to use dark deal because someone else nearby used it recently.

akray21

Just allow each Templar to repent each body once, regardless if it has been repented already. It will still be weaker than a guaranteed return skill from other classes. And the skill is useless in a 1v1.

AcadianPaladin

I gave up on repentance a long time ago. Even at its best, the short range and requirement for corpses made it not worth slotting for me. Where my healer is mostly concerned is vs bosses and very soon, there are generally no corpses around. Just one massive pile of health to carve through and a wasted slot if repentance is on her bar to help the tanks / stamfighters. I was very surprised to see this nerf to what I already consider to be a very cool-looking but not useful skill (to me anyway).

Solariken

akray21 wrote: »

Just allow each Templar to repent each body once, regardless if it has been repented already. It will still be weaker than a guaranteed return skill from other classes. And the skill is useless in a 1v1.

This

GrumpyDuckling

The more I think about, the more I realize how much this hurts Templar tanks. All it takes is another Templar repenting and the tank loses out on valuable stamina return.

GrumpyDuckling

So... are we just ignoring this and saying tough luck to Templars who group together?

missb00

The problem with stamplar is that it really lacks sustain. Repentance is a core skill because it's really all we've got. My personal issue is that healers use it as a nice free heal - cool, but if I'm on my stamplar, relying on that stam return, I get screwed over. It's not so much an issue if healers run it with characters other than stamplar.

Luckily, a stamplar friend I like to run with and I have an agreement - we aren't competing for the resources, just taking what we need. It's nice to work in tandem sometimes.

Brrrofski

I don't have room for it on my bar anyway, haven't since a good 3 months. It is sad that a group utility skill get's nerfed though.

Finraelin

It's an important issue that needs addressing. I'm not certain the devs often read this forum though. I had to go back six pages to find a dev comment on a thread. Pretty dry. (Edit: and that dev comment was just closing a duplicate thread.)

F7sus4

SRTtoZ wrote: »

Honestly I just removed it from my bar, well, I ended up using the magikasteal morph instead since just giving Stamina to myself is not worth keeping it around.

I kept Repentance morph on Templar healer. It's still a free heal and it provides Stamina for you to cast Power of the Light.

WhiteMage wrote: »

I have an idea... what if they changed it so that everyone in range with repentance slotted got stam back, instead of just the user? I don't really have a horse in this race because I don't repent, but it seems like a good compromise to me.

It actually is a really nice idea.

GrumpyDuckling

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

From what I have seen on ESO Live, you are talented at acquiring and sharing clear, thorough answers for players. Will you give this one a shot for us?

Thank you.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

I have a Stam temp and every time I join a pug I have to look for a temp, I make sure they are not a Stam temp, I have to make sure if they are a mag temp healer that they do not use repentance. This is a problem, no other class has to do this. I like playing my stam temp kitty, it is a lot of fun but it is getting tedious.

Ozstryker

jrgray93 wrote: »

ZOS is determined to drive all of us long-time templar players out of the game. As usual, they show a complete lack of understanding of their own game. This change really baffled me when I read it. RIP templars.

Bit dramatic