Origin of the Bretons

AlexanderS

I was wondering because the bretons are half human and half elf and theyre living in Daggerfall which is next to Skyrim.... Is it possible that the ancestors of the bretons are snow elves?

Turelus

I personally have no idea, but you could check.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Breton

Or watch this (not sure if it would say).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT-es3IscWw

makreth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretons

Feanor

No, the origins of Bretons are Nords with an unusual taste for fancy clothes. Rigurt the Brash is their forefather.

AlexanderS

Turelus wrote: »

I personally have no idea, but you could check.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Breton

Or watch this (not sure if it would say).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT-es3IscWw

Ive seen this one And ive searched on for more info... but all I can find is "elves" ....and yeahh in TES are quite some elves

Sinolai

If i rememer the lore right, Breton race was born from mixing of Ayleid elves who had children with their human slaves before the elves had started forming sub-races. The half-elves were given higher status than men but forbidden to have have children with pure-blood elves, creating the Breton race. Later, wars and slave rebellions drove out the elves from the area of Daggerfall and the Breton breed replaced the elven masters in the society.

Tryxus

Bretons originally started out as descendants of the ancient druids of Galen (Arena), but were later retconned to be the human descendants of the Manmer, the half elves, in High Rock.(Morrowind)

It started when the Nedes arrived in High Rock, they were enslaved by the Aldmer that lived there just like almost everywhere else but they were treated better. Some of the Aldmer and the Nedes interbred, creating the Manmer or the half elves who became a caste of their own in the Aldmer society.

But after a long time though, the elven blood in them was so dilluted that they became more man than mer. And so they became the Bretons

Banana

Oh I just figured it was a Nord or imperial going at it with a high elf that started it off.

Turelus

AlexanderS wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I personally have no idea, but you could check.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Breton

Or watch this (not sure if it would say).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT-es3IscWw

Ive seen this one And ive searched on for more info... but all I can find is "elves" ....and yeahh in TES are quite some elves

Sorry I wasn't able to help then. I could tag our local lore expert and see if he can bring anything to light. @Enodoc

Bringer

Ive yet to see an adequate explanation as to how we have half elves at all when its established lore than a child always takes on the mothers race.

AlexanderS

Bringer wrote: »

Ive yet to see an adequate explanation as to how we have half elves at all when its established lore than a child always takes on the mothers race.

.....very good point

Enodoc

Sinolai wrote: »

If i rememer the lore right, Breton race was born from mixing of Ayleid elves who had children with their human slaves before the elves had started forming sub-races. The half-elves were given higher status than men but forbidden to have have children with pure-blood elves, creating the Breton race. Later, wars and slave rebellions drove out the elves from the area of Daggerfall and the Breton breed replaced the elven masters in the society.

Tryxus wrote: »

It started when the Nedes arrived in High Rock, they were enslaved by the Aldmer that lived there just like almost everywhere else but they were treated better. Some of the Aldmer and the Nedes interbred, creating the Manmer or the half elves who became a caste of their own in the Aldmer society.

But after a long time though, the elven blood in them was so dilluted that they became more man than mer. And so they became the Bretons

Yep. Whether they were Ayleid or Altmer I believe is largely irrelevant, because they were essentially a combination of both. Not Snow Elves though; those were in Skyrim, and these elves originated directly from Summerset. The common designation for this group of Aldmer is Direnni, who originated from a clan of Aldmer who lived on the banks of the river Diren in Summerset, and moved to the north-west. When the Nedes arrived, they found the culture so sophisticated that they were overwhelmed and absorbed. Centuries of interbreeding resulted in the Bretons. This supposedly happened in the late Merethic. It was a few centuries later when a bunch of Ayleids fleeing the Alessian Order in Cyrodiil arrived and joined the Direnni, and it's probably safe to assume that a few Nedic/Nordic parties moved westwards over that period as well to add to the mix.

Bringer wrote: »

Ive yet to see an adequate explanation as to how we have half elves at all when its established lore than a child always takes on the mothers race.

Technically true, but remember that there are occasionally also subtle features and traits from the father's race present in the children. Extrapolate this over a long time period and it could happen. Consider this line from PGE3;

One of the earliest tales of Khosey describes a Nord raiding party attacking a group of what they presumed to be Aldmer, but who were, on closer inspection, a mongrel race between elf and human, the remnants of the earlier lost Nedic tribe. They were somewhat awkwardly called "Manmeri," but we know them today as Bretons.

This to me sounds like a part-way stage in the evolution of the Bretons. Based on what the raiding party observed, this particular group still had numerous Aldmeri features which are not present in modern-day Bretons.

Demycilian

There's that book in the library of Orsinium that explains the origins of the Breton. Iirc it was stated that the area of High Rock was ruled by the Direnni (who i once saw explained as a Aldmer/Altmer royal/noble house). The mer of the area established a kind of harems of physically attractive humans for recreational purposes. So, sex toys. Apparently, it became a sport among the noble Direnni/mer folks to have stables of humans in a similar way we have rl people keeping stables of fine horses. There are some more details, like how the halfblood offspring were integrated, if not into the mer ruling families themselves, but into the admistrative levels of the mer kingdom. Which formed the basis for the Breton noble houses.

From what i remember reading i didnt get the idea that the humans/Bretons were slaves, more like underlings and pets. Which would explain why relations between mer and men, at those times, werent as poisoned as in most other areas of Tamriel.The fact that these humans incidentially werent boarish Atmoran dorks did help a bit as well, I would imagine. Actually, we get a DC quest that sends us back in time to experience how the Bretons were trying to protect the Direnni from the Allessian Order, containing stories and hints of love bonds and friendship between the two races.

Enslaved

Bretons were slaves. And their slavers were elves. Some elves used to *** their slaves. Or some other more politically correct term. Well, hundreds of years of "tender love" between slavers and their slaves gave us new race - bretons. It would be a sad story if bretons didnt inherit worse of both worlds, making them overall the race I will never ever make a single of my chars be.

MLGProPlayer

They're mongrel savages that need to re-enslaved, along with the lizard people.

Tryxus

Enslaved wrote: »

It would be a sad story if bretons didnt inherit worse of both worlds, making them overall the race I will never ever make a single of my chars be.

We actually are the perfect fusion of Man and Mer, combining the strengths of both without any of their weaknesses. We have long surpassed every other race in Tamriel

Saint-Ange

Demycilian wrote: »

it became a sport among the noble Direnni/mer folks to have stables of humans in a similar way we have rl people keeping stables of fine horses.

why did you take horses as an example? is there not enough stables of humans and sex (or not) slavery nowadays to say "just as today IRL"?

Demycilian

Saint-Ange wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

it became a sport among the noble Direnni/mer folks to have stables of humans in a similar way we have rl people keeping stables of fine horses.

why did you take horses as an example? is there not enough stables of humans and sex (or not) slavery nowadays to say "just as today IRL"?

Not in the heart of Europe.

Galwylin

Well, I love the Bretons. And that quest where you go back to find out how Fashou or whatever the name is was defeated a good one. We get to see the Alyed (god I'm terrible with these names) king who we rescue in Coldhabour which seem to put the Drenni as its own society so this is well after slavery. The king was amazed these humans would fight to protect his people given their history I imagine. So these are the guys that I guess were either thrown out of Cyrodiil or just some random elves the Order had gone after. And I did think the Nedes were the Bretons human forefathers.

In any case, the best thing to come out of this.... you can give Bretons pointed ears!!

Narvuntien

The Nedes are the human half of the bretons.

I think it was Aelyd slavers first and the Direnni came later, conquering (reconquering?) High Rock back from the nords I think. Then they closed all the Aelyd cities.

Bretons have a case of stockholm syndrome.... and the reachmen are those that refused to submit to elves again and fled into the mountains.

Korah_Eaglecry

AlexanderS wrote: »

I was wondering because the bretons are half human and half elf and theyre living in Daggerfall which is next to Skyrim.... Is it possible that the ancestors of the bretons are snow elves?

No. Their ancestors are from the Direnni Clan of Altmer. They settled in North West Tamriel and enslaved the local Nedes (proto-bretons/imperials/nords). Unlike the Aylieds and other Elven races the Direnni got a kick out of taking humans as mistresses/lovers. And of course when that happens inevitably children are a result. This happened so often that the Breton race has come to be quite gifted with magic.

Eventually the Direnni lost control over the Bretons and they hid themselves away in their notorious tower. The Bretons still call back to their heritage as halflings whenever a dispute comes up over their possible legitmacy be it a King or Noble.

Kagetenchu

Isn't @Enodoc the resident lore person here on the forums?

Reivax

My mother is from Rennes, France in Brittany. So, I'm an actual Breton. That would explain my increased spell resistance.

Enodoc

Kagetenchu wrote: »

Isn't @Enodoc the resident lore person here on the forums?

If you say so

Narvuntien wrote: »

The Nedes are the human half of the bretons.

I think it was Aelyd slavers first and the Direnni came later, conquering (reconquering?) High Rock back from the nords I think. Then they closed all the Aelyd cities.

Direnni first (early Merethic), then Nedes (late Merethic), then Ayleids and Nords (mid First Era).

Deathlord92

Bretons are master race 💪

mairwen85

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5839210/#Comment_5839210

Banana

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Bretons are master race 💪

And the best lookers

ryzen_gamer_gal

Strictly speaking as to what does or doesnt describe a race of persons or not, you need to be awar that the definitions we use commonly are heavly influenced by our racist societies.

From a scientific perspective, if two differing types of people are capable of producing offspring that are viable and can also themselves reproduce, then they are NOT separate races but of the same race.

Argonians can not breed with the men or the mer ot would seem since they produce an external egg that hatches. Since men and mer can interbreed and produce viable offspring that can also reproduce, then they are of the same race. Khajiit... well they dont seem to be capable of breeding with men or mer either, though they would still be classified as mammals.

Thanks and have a nice day.

Sylvermynx

Galwylin wrote: »

Well, I love the Bretons. And that quest where you go back to find out how Fashou or whatever the name is was defeated a good one. We get to see the Alyed (god I'm terrible with these names) king who we rescue in Coldhabour which seem to put the Drenni as its own society so this is well after slavery. The king was amazed these humans would fight to protect his people given their history I imagine. So these are the guys that I guess were either thrown out of Cyrodiil or just some random elves the Order had gone after. And I did think the Nedes were the Bretons human forefathers.

In any case, the best thing to come out of this.... you can give Bretons pointed ears!!

Yep, and mine have them! I love all the Man/Mer races plus Khajiit, no use for Argonians or Orcs though.

ryzen_gamer_gal

Orc are derived from elves

Sylvermynx

ryzen_gamer_gal wrote: »

Orc are derived from elves

I'm aware of that. I played Arena the day it released and have played every game in between as they released. I don't care that they're elves - I don't like them, and won't play them. And they themselves refuse to call themselves elves; the lore gives them the name Orsimer, but they don't use it.