Should Tutorial Quests Teach Players how to Light Attack Weave? Or add in a Help Menu Page?

Avran_Sylt

This is because Light attack anim cancelling, as well as block casting, are huge helps in terms of damage output, and survivability. So I think helping new players , who have sub par armor, weapons, and skills, and are new to the game mechanics, would benefit from a tutorial on how to do this. Such that they have an easier time on their first character, especially when they're under-geared.

Eshelmen

Add it in, in the Beginning Tutorial

Any bit to take the burden off of us players to do the teaching, helps.

TheRealPotoroo

Add Both of the Above

It's the sort of thing that would get lost in a player's early experience, so it needs to be accessible more than once.

Morgul667

Add in a guide in Another Way

I do belive there shoudl be a tutorial to do before your first dungeon to share the basics of your role (DPS, Tank, Heal). Only the basics but at least share some things not let players with no clue whatsoever joins them. It could be one of the items.

There should be a tutorial to do before the first vet dungeon too.

ArchMikem

Light Attack weaving is purely a player made concept. Its not an official combat mechanic the game should be required to teach. Not saying it shouldnt be taught, but it shouldnt be expected of ZOS to accommodate everything we come up with.

Besides, whats so hard about us telling others, "do a light attack between all of your skills".

Avran_Sylt

@ArchMikem

Honestly, it isn't difficult to do so. But I'll admit, it wasn't until around CP300 or so that I learned about light attack weaving myself. Up till that point I thought basic attack and ability animations mattered in some way. But once I learned they were holding me back, I actually managed to improve my dps and greatly improve my initial burst dps. Made vMA a hell of a lot easier with enchantment procs + LA + Viper with Surprise attack. I actually started feeling competent in dungeons so rather than tanking vets I started being the dps in them. made normal dungeons so much faster too.

If ZoS keeps animation cancelling a thing, least they could do is not half-ass the accessibility of information on a technique that is incredibly helpful, especially to new players who would likely be exposed to toxicity from pug dungeon players who don't like the "noob" dps in their group who makes everything else take longer.

Also, some players may think "do a light attack between all of your skills" means to wait for the light attack to finish, they may not be aware that unlike abilities, who have a GCD, light attacks can have their animation skipped, to just get the damage and bonus procs in addition to the following ability.

Huyen

Don't add in a Guide, They should figure it out themselves.

Just because I still dont agree with animation-cancelling.

Runschei

I Don't Care

They'll figure it out eventually, just like everyone else.

Turelus

Absolutely not.

Animation cancelling should not become a core mechanic of the game everyone has to use.

It's fine to be there, it's fine to use it and gain the advantage of it for faster clear times and higher DPS but the game should never make it a mechanic nor balance around it.

Kali_Despoine

Add in a guide in Another Way

You remember that fist contact with the undaunted? I do. Sure I go here and kill a spider right? Sounds easy. I hated that NPC for sending me on a suicide mission.

Oh to be a noob again.
Well that mission should teach a player about how to most importantly run roles and then animation cancel.

notimetocare

Don't add in a Guide, They should figure it out themselves.

Slightly different from my vote... But it isnt needed for a new player and is more likely to confuse. Animation cancelling is and advanced tactic better left to endgame research. Isnt needed for most content

lolo_01b16_ESO

I Don't Care

Isn't that something you notice right away?
I remember back when the beta, when I killed my first few mudcrabs on the starter island, I saw, that I can shoot more arrows if I alternate between klicking on my mouse and using a skill instead of just spamming one of the buttons.
I didn't think about dps back then and didn't use a fancy name like weaving for it, but isn't it obvious even for new players, that shooting more arrows in the same amount of time is most likely a good thing?

Lieblingsjunge

There's enough guides on YouTube who explains the weave in detail - and also block-cast. The players who are interested in these "fancier" playstyles will, by themselves, look up guides to do so. Adding this into a tutorial won't help, as most players won't even know what a weave is at that point.

Maybe they could add it in the help-menu under an "Advanced"-tab.

Zolron

Add Both of the Above

Turelus wrote: »

Absolutely not.

Animation cancelling should not become a core mechanic of the game everyone has to use.

It's fine to be there, it's fine to use it and gain the advantage of it for faster clear times and higher DPS but the game should never make it a mechanic nor balance around it.

^^ But they are already starting to make it a necessary mechanic ..Just look at the bone they threw NB's with the suppossed buff to Grim Focus/Merciless Resolve. Assassin's Will procs off light attacks and yet to help bring NB's in line with others they buff this skill which is nearly USELESS if you don't light attack weave.

Easily_Lost

I Don't Care

I don't know what you are all talking about.

Turelus

Zolron wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Absolutely not.

Animation cancelling should not become a core mechanic of the game everyone has to use.

It's fine to be there, it's fine to use it and gain the advantage of it for faster clear times and higher DPS but the game should never make it a mechanic nor balance around it.

^^ But they are already starting to make it a necessary mechanic ..Just look at the bone they threw NB's with the suppossed buff to Grim Focus/Merciless Resolve. Assassin's Will procs off light attacks and yet to help bring NB's in line with others they buff this skill which is nearly USELESS if you don't light attack weave.

Indeed. Also boss damage in veteran trials has been for a while much higher to deal with the DPS numbers of the top-tiers.

I don't like it, I am sad they're doing it but hopefully it doesn't go too far. As long as content (including veteran) can be cleared by a casual group I will remain happy.

It's fine to have animation cancelling but I don't feel everyone should have to do it in order to complete content. The benefit to those who do is faster times and easier clears.

Juhasow

It could be added later but not at the beggining. Problem with animation cancelling is if non experienced player starts to trying to do it without previous mastering rotation and understanding mechanics he'll end up with lowering his DPS and overall effectivness.

Dracindo

Add it in, in a Help Menu Page

Honestly, the beginning tutorial explains the basics of the basics. These techniques are a little bit too much at that point.
It's helpful, and I don't mind it being mentioned in-game, but you don't want to overload new players with all the details that soon.

It fits better in the help section, where people can look and stumble upon tips and tricks they wish they've known sooner.

Dracindo

Add it in, in a Help Menu Page

hagermanj wrote: »

I don't know what you are all talking about.

Pretty much the technique to improve your DPS. Roughly explained, using this technique, you could deal 5.000 damage in 1 second, using a light attack and a skill. However, if you let the animations happen, that could be 5.000 damage in 1.5 seconds.

So, for a fight against a monster with 500.000 health, repeating the same fighting style, this battle will take:

• With this technique: 1 minute 40 seconds.
• Without this technique: 2 minutes 30 seconds.

Another view: Farm raw clothing materials from monsters:

• With: avg. 100 wolves killed within the hour
• Without: avg. 80 wolves killed within the hour

These aren't actual values, but they do give an idea of the effects of this technique. For someone who tries to aim for high DPS, or simply wanting to become a better damage dealer, this is a useful thing to know.

Saint-Ange

Weaving did harm all the games it happened in and defeated the initial buffering purpose of a Global Cool Down thus separating in two the communities, those that can profit of the weaving, those that cannot due to not only technical impeachment like an unstable ping but also to a non desire to cut short the animations for an esthetical reason.

do I need to mention those that won't weave will not be able to compete in PvP and PvEHL? oh sorry, I just did.

AoC went down hard because of the combo weaving, as a reminder.

Garwulf

Animation cancelling is only really available to those with a low ping.
To all others it means they are effectively playing against' cheaters' who have another significant advantage over them at all times.

Another broken mechanic from the broken mechanic makers.

Talrol

Don't add in a Guide, They should figure it out themselves.

In most everything in life (games included) you're going to have those that are at the top of the skill list, those that are at the bottom and everything in between. Combat basics are all that should be taught in a tutorial, anyone who wants to be serious about playing their class will learn how to play it to maximise their role.

Anyone picking up pugs to run veteran content or trials should be prepared to help others in the group to learn mechanics of the dungeon/trial as well as their class. Those that are serious about running these things are going to be running with a premade static or guild and are unaffected by the pug factor.

NewBlacksmurf

No because that's not even necessary for most content. Doing so suggests it's required

If you're going to add something to teach people, it's not this.

What would help players are tutorials on dungeon, trial, doleman and world boss showing their abilities and tool tip info on each.