Why not add a 7 day no CP campaign instead of taking a CP one away?

Joy_Division

I don't care about the CPs I "earned" nuking Zombies. If I had it my way, CPs would be removed from the game entirely and the power in them would be returned to the classes. But ZoS is committed to the Champion system ... but not in PvP for some reason. I am so confused and would like an answer.

I do care how this decision was made in complete contradiction to what the ques every night unequivocally demonstrate is the more popular PvP choice and the lack of communication and accompanying explanation for it.

The only thing we got was this "Campaigns are being shifted to be mostly Non-Champion to go along with Battlegrounds being non-Champion based". What does that mean? Why is there a connection between Battlegrounds, which ZoS itself has labeled a quick 15 minute fun diversionary activity that can be done at a lunch break, with PvP campaigns that last potentially a month that are centered on AvAvA format, map control, and full guilds, gankers, and other players battling in keeps, choke points, and the open fields between Nickel and Fort Ash?

It would be one thing if the removal of a campaign system was in accordance with player preference. This isn't. On 16 May at 7:30 PM eastern the que for NA PC Trueflame was already locked on each faction:



And AZ still has two faction with just two bars:



Shouldn’t we have been at least asked where we plan on playing? Why can’t Zos wait until after Morrowind drops to see where the PvP community wants to play? Can we at least be given the courtesy of why such a decision was made without even asking us?

Why are we being pushed away from out preferences for the sake of Battlegrounds? Why is Battlegrounds interfering with Cyrodiil? A long time ago ZoS was asked why Battlegrounds was not introduced at Launch and the developers consistently cited the worry that Battelground would negatively affect Cyrodiil. Why is ZoS now all of a sudden enabling its original (correct) fear to happen when it is completely unnecessary?

I do not need to suffer 100+ ques and thus be pushed, dragged, pressured, and strong-armed into a campaign I do not want to play just so I can acclimate to Battlegrounds. If I felt the need to acclimate I would use the guest function, log into Azura's Star where there is no or a minimal que, and have at it. In fact I have occasionally done this for such a purpose. Or, ZoS could simply open a new 7 day campaign to accommodate this; there is not a need to remove campaigns.

Everyone knows perfectly well that the weekend ques for NA TF are often in excess of an hour. And yet, we do this anyway even though we could skip the que entirely and log onto Haderus or Azura Star. This unmistakably demonstrates a passion and a strong preference for this campaign format.

It's not just us at TF that will suffer. All those folks who want to play with CPs but dislike the heavily populated zergs that are so prominent in TF are having their campaign eliminated entirely. That format will cease to exist entirely come May 22. They will be forced to do something else.

ZoS often talks about player choice, options, and "play as you want," how am I supposed to reconcile this? Why is ZoS not accommodating player preference? This decision is an unambiguous signal that ZoS wants to push it's PvP player base to no CPs, which is all the more confusing because of ZoS's consistent stance regarding:

ZoS wrote:

“We know there’s some apprehension that we’re balancing PvE and PvP gameplay simultaneously without separating the two. We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently, with the goal being for players to learn how play efficiently and be able to transfer those skills to other environments.”

How can I reconcile this statement with the fact that Champion Points, the entire post 50 level progression system and what ZoS says is a crucial part of character customization, now all of a sudden is not to be a feature of PvP with BGs and this move to no CP PvP?

I want to know why the most logical, accommodating, and fair direction for everyone involved was not taken: simply adding a 7-day no CP campaign to our existing choices?

• CP 30 day campaigns already overburdened que would not suffer an influx it can't handle
• CP 7 day can keep their format that they enjoy
• No CP players now have the option of the 7 day format.
• We all have choices, we are all happy.
• But no.

I think we should know why. What is the disadvantage of doing this? Why is ZoS knowingly - and willingly - over-clogging the CP ques and pressuring us to play no CP? If ZoS is pushing us to no CP, why is CP still such a fundamental part of the game and post 50 progression? Why are these questions not being answered? Why is this decision being made before the Morrowind update comes out when we PvP players have not had the opportunity to actually play no CP and see if we want to switch? It is incredibly frustrating.

Why does ZoS in effect have to nuke the CP campaigns to make them undesirable to play rather than simply opening up a 7-day no CP campaign?

Lexxypwns

The lack of communication here is appalling.

There's tons of potential reasons to do this, some are even solid arguements, but there's no reason not to communicate with the player base about what you're doing and why.

Minno

Lexxypwns wrote: »

The lack of communication here is appalling.

There's tons of potential reasons to do this, some are even solid arguements, but there's no reason not to communicate with the player base about what you're doing and why.

Correct. And with the CP changes, that style of play might feel like nCP does now. So why the removal of CP servers without the general player base having the opportunity to actually play and make a comparison critique?

Just seems odd. I have a feeling the department's aren't communicating or their implementation of feedback is months behind.

Turelus

I would guess because there isn't the population to sustain it.

ZOS has been culling campaigns for a while now to try and force the populations to work, rather than farming campaigns.

casparian

Turelus wrote: »

I would guess because there isn't the population to sustain it.

ZOS has been culling campaigns for a while now to try and force the populations to work, rather than farming campaigns.

I take it that part of Joy's point, though, is that "I would guess..." is the best we can do right now -- and that shouldn't be the case. There ought to be communication from ZOS on this point, but there hasn't been.

bikerangelo

Return the power to the player, comrades! LET THE PROLETARIAT RISE UP AND TOPPLING CHARGE THE PATRIARCHY OF THE RICH, FAT CATS. XP ALONE MOVES THE WHEELERS OF HISTORY AND WE MUST BE THAT VESSEL OF PROGRESSION.

#wrobellion

Durham

Great post.... In our Team speak last night we were talking about the same thing as the OP. This change based on current math makes no sense..... More people play CP...

We will have huge Q's on the only CP campaign. It's locked every night as is...while the non CP campaign is generally locked only on the weekends.. The current 7 day CP campaign will go 3 bars at times on the weekends (especially red).. So what's going to happen on the weekend with the only CP campaign?
So when I get home at 8pm est log in to play with friends will I be in 60 to 70 man Q? What happens when I crash ?

So the solution is add another 7 day no CP this makes no sense... While this meta is not even full...

NBrookus

Turelus wrote: »

I would guess because there isn't the population to sustain it.

ZOS has been culling campaigns for a while now to try and force the populations to work, rather than farming campaigns.

Then the more logical step would have been to remove Haderus (on PC NA) and force vet players into just two campaigns -- CP and no CP, and Battlegrounds becomes the overflow spot for when the campaigns are pop locked.

As long as no CP is dominated by proctard zergs... I'm not interested.

Lexxypwns

This is just speculation, but, what if its because of the gear grind?

They realize that their RNG system is *** and their gear grind is crazy and they realize that you'll likely need/want different gear for CP/no CP environments. Now, they could either tone down their RNG or just make playing noCP pvp more appealing. Rather than some sort of incentive though, they just force our hands, which isn't the way to go.

Durham

NBrookus wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I would guess because there isn't the population to sustain it.

ZOS has been culling campaigns for a while now to try and force the populations to work, rather than farming campaigns.

Then the more logical step would have been to remove Haderus (on PC NA) and force vet players into just two campaigns -- CP and no CP, and Battlegrounds becomes the overflow spot for when the campaigns are pop locked.

As long as no CP is dominated by proctard zergs... I'm not interested.

No no there are to many playing CP on the weekends ... Haderous goes 3,2,2 on most Saturday nights ... even on the week days you will get 2 bars... The point is that more people play CP... CP will have much larger Qs..

Many of your CP people will not like the BGs.... You will have very competitive organized groups in there most casual people will die 3 times and not go back...

7 Day has never been popular... make 2(30) day and lower the pop limit for lock out .. this is more logical...

alephthiago

bikerangelo wrote: »

Return the power to the player, comrades! LET THE PROLETARIAT RISE UP AND TOPPLING CHARGE THE PATRIARCHY OF THE RICH, FAT CATS. XP ALONE MOVES THE WHEELERS OF HISTORY AND WE MUST BE THAT VESSEL OF PROGRESSION.

#wrobellion

WE HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT OUR RESOURCES!!

Minalan

Nobody gives a *** about PC/NA Haderus. Making it no-CP will just make it harder for one faction to PVDOOR emperor every single night of the week. It should be deleted.

Now at least you'll see more players on Azuras star, at least until their "TrueFlameVivec" queue pops. Then they're GONE. Nobody wants to play No-CP FFS. Or they would. But they really aren't.

Sallington

They need to lock themselves in a meeting room, and not leave until they have a clear vision of what they want from their own game.

They make so many changes that contradict other changes, what they say, original expectations, etc. If they think that noCP is the best thing for the future of PVP in ESO, then explain your vision to the playerbase and deploy your vision. Ask for feedback, but explain the reasons of how the changes reflect upon your clear vision for the game. Take out all of the CP campaigns if you feel it's a determent to your vision of ESO. "Well, I guess we'll take out a CP campaign, but kind of, I guess, leave the other one in? Right? Is that an OK thing?"

This ENTIRE Morrowind update is a Picasso painting of changes. "Well I understand why they made this sustain change, I guess... but then why did they buff resource gain on heavy attack so much? Is Igneous shield going live like that? No CP in battlegrounds I get, but then why is CP in PvP at all if they feel it is such a balance issue?"

Nothing makes sense anymore.

NACtron

Well said as always @Joy_Division

I feel like ZOS is trying to slowy rip off the band aid when it comes to getting us to all go over to no cp. As painful as it would be I'd rather they would just get it over with and rip it off if that is their intent.

Durham

Minalan wrote: »

Nobody gives a *** about PC/NA Haderus. Making it no-CP will just make it harder for one faction to PVDOOR emperor every single night of the week. It should be deleted.

Now at least you'll see more players on Azuras star, at least until their "TrueFlameVivec" queue pops. Then they're GONE. Nobody wants to play No-CP FFS. Or they would. But they really aren't.

Very constructive... I care..... and the others that home there care... so the statement of no one cares is incorrect...

I agree with the PVE door comment I think this server should receive a low pop ruleset... No emperor title.. And reduced points for objectives taken up to 75% less during low pop periods..

HAD is virtually dead 20 out of 24 hours of the day.. However during primetime you can expect to find small scale fighting with pops hitting 2 to 3 bars briefly.... On the weekends you will see 3 bars during this time...

My point is the large Q size that will only grow... Please lower the pop caps and make 2 CP servers ....this will help with the lag and Q's...

Asardes

I never tried noCP but I guess I'll give it a shot. It makes no difference to me anyway. I'll just adapt.

Minno

NACtron wrote: »

Well said as always @Joy_Division

I feel like ZOS is trying to slowy rip off the band aid when it comes to getting us to all go over to no cp. As painful as it would be I'd rather they would just get it over with and rip it off if that is their intent.

Well it would be fine if it's the current nCP on live. All they had to do was scale back poisons and proc sets and I think most would be ok.

But no, they had to spend billable hours to also nerf resource Regen to only spend now billable hours buffing heavy attack Regen.

None of it makes sense.

IcyDeadPeople

With battlegrounds launch I suspect there might not even be enough players in Cyrodiil to support more than one campaign on PC NA at least. There will be the 30 day campaign with CP and the rest will be mostly dead.

If you prefer playing with Champion Points, I suggest keep playing in the 30-day and maybe they will open a second CP campaign if there is enough interest (i.e., large queue most of the time)

Magıc

Lexxypwns wrote: »

This is just speculation, but, what if its because of the gear grind?

They realize that their RNG system is *** and their gear grind is crazy and they realize that you'll likely need/want different gear for CP/no CP environments. Now, they could either tone down their RNG or just make playing noCP pvp more appealing. Rather than some sort of incentive though, they just force our hands, which isn't the way to go.

?

Change enchants and you're good to go in the same build lol.

Lexxypwns

Magıc wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

This is just speculation, but, what if its because of the gear grind?

They realize that their RNG system is *** and their gear grind is crazy and they realize that you'll likely need/want different gear for CP/no CP environments. Now, they could either tone down their RNG or just make playing noCP pvp more appealing. Rather than some sort of incentive though, they just force our hands, which isn't the way to go.

?

Change enchants and you're good to go in the same build lol.

I mean, sure. But we've established they don't play their game and probably wouldn't even know that.

Its just sarcasm though, I sincerely doubt they're stupid enough to make this change for that reason, regardless.

Minno

Magıc wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

This is just speculation, but, what if its because of the gear grind?

They realize that their RNG system is *** and their gear grind is crazy and they realize that you'll likely need/want different gear for CP/no CP environments. Now, they could either tone down their RNG or just make playing noCP pvp more appealing. Rather than some sort of incentive though, they just force our hands, which isn't the way to go.

?

Change enchants and you're good to go in the same build lol.

Some builds likely not the case. Some may not change at all, or just need to add cost reduction enchants. Some require regearing to use a Regen set.

For my build, the shift to nCP currently means going thief mundas to make up the missing 10-12% crit chance, using misrule food, and adding SD enchants since the shift makes me lose max mag therefore less DMG (lose 8k+ mag). I also lose 2% movement speed, 2k Stam, 700 crit resistance, 3000k penetration, etc.

The list goes on. But you just have to catch what's important to you. For me the missing DMG was more important; id lose out on too much trying to get back speed or mag for defense/offense.

Dreyloch

Lexxypwns wrote: »

The lack of communication here is appalling.

There's tons of potential reasons to do this, some are even solid arguements, but there's no reason not to communicate with the player base about what you're doing and why.

Well if we're gonna be technical about it. They did in fact communicate they were changing the formats. Thing is, it was on Reddit, and NOT here where many players like myself choose to get information. Very bad move imo.

Rickter

I dont think you can really post pictures of campaign populations at 7:30PM EST on a Tuesday and consider that definitive proof of the overall pvp population's preference . ..

Azura's Star pop locks regularly, generally later in the week and later at night. Last ngiht in fact, it was 3 bars all factions


@Dreyloch - they did post the info on the official forums but it was stickied and hard to see, i didnt realize there was an official post made until after i made my own

Dreyloch

To reply to Joy,

We're gonna go where our guilds go won't we? I don't see us moving anytime soon. Unless the queues get so obnoxious that we have to. Maybe that's ZoS' master plan? Make the lag and queues so unbearable that we'll haveto move in order to keep our sanity.? I can't say I know too many people playing on Haderus atm. But I know for a fact that A.S. is no where near packed either.

I'm thinking CP players will try to deal with queues being on Vivec (the new name for TF). Some may just bite the bullet and change to noCP. But I also think ultimately this new 7 day no CP campaign will be so barren or simply one-sided, that it will eventually close.

I'm also going to say again to ZoS. What is the point of gaining CP's for a mainly PvP player who does not enjoy PvE? I don't find it compelling, I don't find it exciting or even challenging. How about for once you make the trial guilds go in with no CP Eh? But noooooo, that will NEVER happen will it? Because you cater to the players who spend the most on your garbage over priced fluff. It is a business after all right? Pffft, who cares about listening to your players and balancing the game right? ZoS, you'd make soo much more money if ya listened and communicated with us. Because the game would be much greater than it is today...

lygerseye

Sallington wrote: »

This ENTIRE Morrowind update is a Picasso painting of changes.

This... Right there... That single sentence encompasses everything I feel about this update. It's like ZOS split itself up into multiple teams with the goal of improving ESO. But rather than cooperate with one another, the teams were sequestered and not allowed to coordinate their plans until just last week. The result is now this patchwork quilt of half-realized changes that don't quite fit together. Each idea may have its own merits, but together they just don't make sense.

ssewallb14_ESO

lol

A spectre is haunting ESO...

DeHei

I hate, that ZOS want to make the decision for me!!!

I want to choose between CP and non-CP, I want choose between a 7 days or 30 days campain and i want to choose between BGs with and without CP too. I have my own opinion what i like and *** i wanna play like i want!
No directory from ZOS will change my opinion what i like or not!

We say them, what we want to have and they should give us nothing else. Honor your player and we will give it back. Maybe we talk our friends how good the game works and how much ZOS doing for us.. Maybe you can get much more player, BUT not in that way you go atm!

Joy_Division

Love the Communist Manifesto references

Hate that ZoS is pulling me in multiple directions. I PvE and PvP. According to their stated philosophy, their vision should be perfect for me. It's not. It's a convoluted mess that almost forces me to have different characters, which is something I don't want to do.

Lucky28

they shouldn't add another no CP camp anyways. there is not enough people who play azura's to justify that in first place.

who knows.

Durham

I agree Lucky why would they do this?

Lucky28

Durham wrote: »

I agree Lucky why would they do this?

yeah i dunno. IC is gonna be the biggest issue. people don't want to grind TV without their CP because the mobs and bosses in IC can be pretty brutal without CP. so now those who want to farm telvar and those who want to PVP are gonna be jammed into one campaign.... doesn't seem to be a very inspired idea.