Cats out of the bag

scipionumatia

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

scipionumatia wrote: »

A few hours ago I stood over aleswell keep watching AD and DC take turns destro-ulting each other...

PvP players need to get it through their heads that there is more to ESO than Cyrodiil. There is a whole world of PvE too. Plus there is Imperial City for small scale PVP. The Battlegrounds are coming also for small scale PvP, and dueling can be done almost anywhere in Tamriel.

Almost every nerf ZOS does is to try to balance the PvP side of the game, often to the serious detriment of PvE players. So, for the love of whatever god you worship, PLEASE, please stop asking for nerfs all the time. Figure out ways around what you don't like in PvP and deal with it directly instead of by nerfs through the back door. The solution, of course, is for ZOS to separate PvP and PvE balancing. So demand that every chance you get.

I play pvp and pve 9 toons total, 4 are pvp builds, 5 are pve builds. At no point did I call for nerfs. I just don't see the point in having one class so superior than all the rest.

Epona222

Tryxus wrote: »

No-one told my cats about that. Husband regularly has to extract a cat from his work bag before he leaves for his shift

Wifeaggro13

Cheveyo wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Ranged (magicka in this case) is always prefered over melee in any MMO these days.

I've found that, for group content of any kind, ranged is always more fun.

Melee either dies too fast or spends too much time running around. As ranged, you can just kinda sit there and watch while destroying stuff.

Thats bad game design and group dynamics. Thats what happens you design your game strictly around DPS

Lexxypwns

The irony is, despite OP claiming sorc and mageblade are too strong, good magplar healers are the real backbone of any successful PVP group and are far more important.

scipionumatia

Lexxypwns wrote: »

The irony is, despite OP claiming sorc and mageblade are too strong, good magplar healers are the real backbone of any successful PVP group and are far more important.

I don't see how that's ironic, your comparing dps builds to a healer. I think you missed the point, I'm not calling for nerf this nerf that. In fact in this scenario I didn't even get involved, I just watched it happen so I'm not salty I got "rekt". I also happen to have a magblade and a magsorc that I play pve (sorc) and pvp (blade). My point is that this is becoming a one class game, pvp guilds are telling their nonhealer templars to re roll magsorc or bomblade, vet trials often fill up 8-9 spaces of their team with sorc. If your a stam dk and not a tank your not getting an invite, if your a magblade your not getting an invite, if your anything but a sorc, you'd better go reroll. I have nothing against the sorc class, I have 2 of them one stam one mag. But there comes a point where it's not healthy for the game when there's 4 classes (til morrowind) but only one of them is so far ahead of the rest where there's no comparison.

Earlier someone had mentioned the proc sets and how stam was so far ahead because of them. Two things about that:
1- you could play any class and run a proc set, it was/is a play style and wasn't limited to a specific class. Stam dk with viper? Yep! Stamblade with veli? Yep! Stam sorc with red mountain? Yep! Stamplar with Selene? Yep!

2- there are mag proc sets, I'll admit not as many but how many magplars were running skoria? Or how about grothdar? Even magsorc running infernal guardian is a proc set (and it popped pple out of stealth! Remember?)

At the end of the day every class should have its uses and counters. When one class dominates the rest it makes the game much less fun for those who don't prefer that class, wether they have the ability to play one or not.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Artemiisia wrote: »

well at one point everyone were playing dks in robes and destrostaves around 1.3-5 cant remember when and they could dps like gods and tank 10 people at the same time.

Was Wrobel playing a DK back then?

All The Best

max_only

Nestor wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Oh my how fast the people forget. Not too long ago Stamblades and StamDKs ruled Cyrodiil. Sorcs were seldom seen.

This is why you roll all 4 classes, don't even need 2 types for each one, but you could.

This way no matter what the preference is, you can play it. Or not, as the case may be. But it gives you a choice. Rolling alts is so easy now compared to the old Vet System there is no reason to not have a character in each class.

I get finding a class to play you enjoy and to prefer playing it, but guess what, it just means that 6 months out out the year your happy, and 6 months out of year, your crying and wanting to quit.

I'm sorry but that mentality is not for me. I don't create "toons" to "run through content". I create characters and they are little fictional extensions of my self. So this philosophy doesn't make sense to me.

In fact, I do have one of each class at lvl 50, but the fact remains that the two I enjoy most are the two that mean the most to me personally.

The nightblade I made is my favorite but is also the most difficult class to play as compared to my Templar or others. I've never complained about the Templar changes for Morrowind because I am still useful as a Templar when I want to group. I've been dulled down but not destroyed.

As a nightblade however I have nothing to offer if I want to group up. At least I was able to say "I can take care of myself, I have great sustain, you all can have the shards and heals" as of Morrowind I won't even be able to say that.

Lexxypwns

scipionumatia wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

The irony is, despite OP claiming sorc and mageblade are too strong, good magplar healers are the real backbone of any successful PVP group and are far more important.

I don't see how that's ironic, your comparing dps builds to a healer. I think you missed the point, I'm not calling for nerf this nerf that. In fact in this scenario I didn't even get involved, I just watched it happen so I'm not salty I got "rekt". I also happen to have a magblade and a magsorc that I play pve (sorc) and pvp (blade). My point is that this is becoming a one class game, pvp guilds are telling their nonhealer templars to re roll magsorc or bomblade, vet trials often fill up 8-9 spaces of their team with sorc. If your a stam dk and not a tank your not getting an invite, if your a magblade your not getting an invite, if your anything but a sorc, you'd better go reroll. I have nothing against the sorc class, I have 2 of them one stam one mag. But there comes a point where it's not healthy for the game when there's 4 classes (til morrowind) but only one of them is so far ahead of the rest where there's no comparison.

Earlier someone had mentioned the proc sets and how stam was so far ahead because of them. Two things about that:
1- you could play any class and run a proc set, it was/is a play style and wasn't limited to a specific class. Stam dk with viper? Yep! Stamblade with veli? Yep! Stam sorc with red mountain? Yep! Stamplar with Selene? Yep!

2- there are mag proc sets, I'll admit not as many but how many magplars were running skoria? Or how about grothdar? Even magsorc running infernal guardian is a proc set (and it popped pple out of stealth! Remember?)

At the end of the day every class should have its uses and counters. When one class dominates the rest it makes the game much less fun for those who don't prefer that class, wether they have the ability to play one or not.

Really? Because I've heard from leadership in several Pvp guilds that they're trending towards Stam builds next patch outside of 2-3 bombers and healers(temp and warden)

Lylith

how many 'nerf sorc' threads do we need?

Bringer

Back in the past of mmos (mid 90s to early 00s) classes were also not balanced very well. But it took so long to level up that what mattered was the player, not so much the class. If you were optimal at your class and knew what you were doing you were golden, nobody blamed you if the class as a whole was a little weak, if you were a good player people wanted to play with you.

These days you can roll alts so fast people can change class like equipment, suddenly why play whats currently a little underpowered when everyone can just play the current FOTM after an afternoon at skyreach? So you get situations where the majority of people at any given time are playing clones of each other. Classes have never been balanced in any game ever. If you want diversity to return you arent going to get it through balance adjustments, there is always going to be a best class at any given time, you will get it only by making it harder to roll alts in the first place.

scipionumatia

Bringer wrote: »

Back in the past of mmos (mid 90s to early 00s) classes were also not balanced very well. But it took so long to level up that what mattered was the player, not so much the class. If you were optimal at your class and knew what you were doing you were golden, nobody blamed you if the class as a whole was a little weak, if you were a good player people wanted to play with you.

These days you can roll alts so fast people can change class like equipment, suddenly why play whats currently a little underpowered when everyone can just play the current FOTM after an afternoon at skyreach? So you get situations where the majority of people at any given time are playing clones of each other. Classes have never been balanced in any game ever. If you want diversity to return you arent going to get it through balance adjustments, there is always going to be a best class at any given time, you will get it only by making it harder to roll alts in the first place.

This is a very good point, I remember back in diablo 2 you couldn't change skill points. Once it was in there it was there permanently. I wish I could click both "agree" and "insightful" on this one

alexkdd99

Speak for yourself. Saying everyone knows like your the community spokesperson.

I found that the templar and dk kill orders were really fast to complete and I also play solo. Your personal experience is in no way indicative of the entire communities experience.

If you are not enjoying playing then don't play. Trying to get other classes nerfed is not good. There have been plenty of nerfs.

Don't enjoy playing? Don't play.

As others have posted they have been able to finish the kill order for various classes at different speeds.

Also how do you know all the people at the resources were sorcs and mag blades if you didn't go there. I find it hard to believe there weren't a few magplar in that bunch as there almost always are in destro groups. Nearly un-killable dks and templar tanks are all over cyrodil.

scipionumatia

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Speak for yourself. Saying everyone knows like your the community spokesperson.

I found that the templar and dk kill orders were really fast to complete and I also play solo. Your personal experience is in no way indicative of the entire communities experience.

If you are not enjoying playing then don't play. Trying to get other classes nerfed is not good. There have been plenty of nerfs.

Don't enjoy playing? Don't play.

As others have posted they have been able to finish the kill order for various classes at different speeds.

Also how do you know all the people at the resources were sorcs and mag blades if you didn't go there. I find it hard to believe there weren't a few magplar in that bunch as there almost always are in destro groups. Nearly un-killable dks and templar tanks are all over cyrodil.

1-I have spoken for myself
2-I'm not calling for sorc nerfs
3-a short browse through forums will reveal that mag sorc is superior in several ways to other classes in pvp and pve. Hardly anyone argues this.
4-I don't particularly have a hard time fighting sorcs, but the AP destro farming does need to stop for the good of the game.
5-go to aleswel, you can see the resource just fine from the top of the keep.

I am not mad at anyone, please take a less aggressive tone. The purpose of this originally was to share my experience and hopefully call some attention to what I see as an issue, and apparently others agree. Some people have posted some very good points and solutions here in this thread, from giving reduced AP for player killing and more AP for capturing objectives to what @Bringer posted about the ease of rolling alt characters.
I appreciate your feed back, I really do but please don't view me as being opposition. I like to hear others points of view so we can together form a constructive voice for the community.

Garwulf

Bringer wrote: »

lower AP from kills, increase AP from objectives

In the type of fights mentioned there is little AP obtained from players. They have usually died so many times that they are worth little or no AP . Most of the AP is generated by Ticks. Either defence or offence.