Bots in Grahtwood are a Problem

qsnoopyjr

In EQ, they had things called Guides and Game Masters.
I think ESO should get some of them.

One thing I noticed while attending college is that, people don't know how easy it is to get volunteers.
Everyone replies with an answer hire people hire people hire people.

I attend USA Wrestling, I attend comic cons, nothing but volunteers run those shows. You think it would cost a huge amount to host big events, but other than buying venue, equipment, and paying for celebs, its not too expensive. Because a lot of people are willing to volunteer for something that is considered fun type event.

Being a Guide or Game Master (GM usually paid employee), those are people you can get to volunteer.
Just have a criteria written up (do they act a certain way, perform suspicious way, do they respond to whisper, etc) that suspends bots, let the Guides check to see if those people/bots meets the criteria and perform simple actions like small suspensions, and then when its next working day, you do the more appropriate actions.

You know those big LoL tournaments, don't be surprised if most of the people working that event... Are volunteers. I mean, you'd work for free if it was an ESO event and they was in your hometown right? Especially if you gotta pay $$$ to get in and they offer "you work 4 hours, you get free pass for the rest of the event"

auronessb16_ESO

I seen many games with volunteers to do this sort of thing, and a for a lot of people it doesn't work. They will sign up, thinking they can help, but then they balk at the actual time commitment and real work. Many of them will sign up thinking they can get special perks or a fancy title, and that is all they want, not actually helping. Sometimes they will sign up just to mess with the system. It takes a lot of time and coordination with an employee to mange the volunteers, and for something like ESO, I'm willing to guess that it just isn't worth the headache to ask for volunteers.

As it is now, you are a volunteer and help out the game every time you report an issue.

Elsonso

Well, I just wanted to mention that a lot of the questionable accounts that I have been seeing farming for the last month are gone as of this week. I mention this today because tomorrow there is a maintenance, and that always kicks the bots off. With the majority of the farming that I see, they are there any time I look, except for Monday after maintenance.

I also want to point out that new accounts have replaced many of the old ones, so the appearance is that nothing has changed, even though something has changed.

Whether ZOS took action against a couple dozen, or so, bots in Grahtwood and Shadowfen, I cannot say. If they did, well done!, but they're back!

Nebthet78

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

During the first couple months of the game, you used to have active GMs in the zones that would announce over chat that they were hunting bot trains to take them out immediately. I miss those days. Now you report bots and it seems nothing happens. The same trains in the same spots. I guess they can't afford to pay people to go after them like the old days. You would think with the sale of all those gambling boxes that they would have a little extra money to pay for some extra GM staff.

Heck, I have a second account... I would spend a weekend doing it for free if ZOS gave me the power to do it on my second account. I'm sick and tired of reporting the same bots over and over again and nothing being done about it, even months later. I'm convinced all our reports are automatically closed by the Chet Bot they use for Customer Service.

EttinTheBreton

The bot scripting is fairly advanced too, there's no way to try to derail them ourselves by killing the wolves ahead of the big train of bots. Anybody have any derailment techniques? I've heard of people aggroing trolls or mammoths to kill the bot train, but there are some isolated areas where that is impossible.

Edit: I also would be ok for ZOS becoming severely strict with banning these accounts. How about an IP address ban for those caught botting? How about 1-time offense permanent bans? Who at ZOS could investigate how often there are repeat offenders? Let's take back our game. I love that ZOS has been #1 in many things, such as keeping leaderboard scores legitimate (I sincerely hope). Let's be #1 in bot defense!

Azuramoonstar

lordrichter wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

We do actively investigate any reports of bots. The best way to get them actioned is to report them in game.

@ZOS_RichLambert , I know that this is the official answer, but the practical nature of the issue complicates things.

1. Spam reports of botting runs the risk of action against me. Says so right on the screen. I assume that spam reports would be things like reporting lots of accounts for botting where ZOS does not agree.
2. There is no feedback to let me know if I am reporting things that ZOS considers to be a bot. I might think that I am sure I see a bot, and I might be wrong. If I am an avid bot hunter, and I am reporting the wrong things, not only am I just making things worse, I run into the above item.
3. It takes ZOS so long to action a bot that there is no indication that ZOS is really doing anything about bots.
4. It is annoying to trot along behind the bots long enough to get a "report player" interaction, and doing so runs the risk of being seen as a botter through association. (Sorcerers reporting bots should never have their pets out. Never.) Yes, we can report using the character or account name, but when the bots are running pets, displaying the pet seems to have priority over displaying the character.

I could spend my day today reporting bots. There are 26 accounts that I believe are bots or multiboxers that I saw just yesterday. I know that 26 isn't a lot, given the scale of the game, but I am not actively looking for new bots. The 26 accounts are just some of the ones I checked up on to see if they were still there.

Should I do that today?

there is no mmo ever that report to the reporter to do anything, but from my 10+ years in mmo bots do get ban/deleted.
Just people make new ones.

this issue exists in every mmo p2p/f2p/b2p american, japanese korean and china mmo. orpg as well. Even MuD get bot issues.

but stuff gets done.

Azuramoonstar

auronessb16_ESO wrote: »

Does it help to add a link to a video after the report is made, when I get the email confirmation? I have reported on a group of the same 5 or 6 for the past three days, and have videos of all three days.

unless ZoS does no mmo i've played takes video evidence, as it can be edited, and doctored.

Elsonso

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

auronessb16_ESO wrote: »

Does it help to add a link to a video after the report is made, when I get the email confirmation? I have reported on a group of the same 5 or 6 for the past three days, and have videos of all three days.

unless ZoS does no mmo i've played takes video evidence, as it can be edited, and doctored.

Yeah, they take video evidence. People have to keep in mind that video evidence, and screen captures, are pretty much the same authenticity as the person who just uses the in-game Report Player. ZOS has to do their own investigation to confirm, or refute, the report, no matter what evidence is submitted.*

This is why a lot of people just say "go there and see for yourself".


*EDIT: At least, they had better be doing their own investigations!

Krayzie

Like I said, they cannot stop bots, ban a bot, 20 mins later they're back with a free account thx to psn/xbl website free trial

Azuramoonstar

lordrichter wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

auronessb16_ESO wrote: »

Does it help to add a link to a video after the report is made, when I get the email confirmation? I have reported on a group of the same 5 or 6 for the past three days, and have videos of all three days.

unless ZoS does no mmo i've played takes video evidence, as it can be edited, and doctored.

Yeah, they take video evidence. People have to keep in mind that video evidence, and screen captures, are pretty much the same authenticity as the person who just uses the in-game Report Player. ZOS has to do their own investigation to confirm, or refute, the report, no matter what evidence is submitted.*

This is why a lot of people just say "go there and see for yourself".


*EDIT: At least, they had better be doing their own investigations!

I'm stating my experience which is 5 mmo from 3 different companies. 2 being multiple years. (7 years and 5 years)

And no it isn't the same, videos can be and ARE edited in a way to point blame at others, I've seen it happen.

In overwatch, people try to use kill cam (which blizzard stated is inaccurate as it isn't a life feed record) and use it against people for botting when they aren't.

It isn't hard to duplicate characters edit in character information, and claim "bot".

I call bs on that unless a rep states it is ok.

Azuramoonstar

Krayzie wrote: »

Like I said, they cannot stop bots, ban a bot, 20 mins later they're back with a free account thx to psn/xbl website free trial

bots are mostly rmt, which use stolen credit cards.

Elsonso

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

auronessb16_ESO wrote: »

Does it help to add a link to a video after the report is made, when I get the email confirmation? I have reported on a group of the same 5 or 6 for the past three days, and have videos of all three days.

unless ZoS does no mmo i've played takes video evidence, as it can be edited, and doctored.

Yeah, they take video evidence. People have to keep in mind that video evidence, and screen captures, are pretty much the same authenticity as the person who just uses the in-game Report Player. ZOS has to do their own investigation to confirm, or refute, the report, no matter what evidence is submitted.*

This is why a lot of people just say "go there and see for yourself".


*EDIT: At least, they had better be doing their own investigations!

I'm stating my experience which is 5 mmo from 3 different companies. 2 being multiple years. (7 years and 5 years)

And no it isn't the same, videos can be and ARE edited in a way to point blame at others, I've seen it happen.

In overwatch, people try to use kill cam (which blizzard stated is inaccurate as it isn't a life feed record) and use it against people for botting when they aren't.

It isn't hard to duplicate characters edit in character information, and claim "bot".

I call bs on that unless a rep states it is ok.

I recommend a search of the forum.

LadyDestiny

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

During the first couple months of the game, you used to have active GMs in the zones that would announce over chat that they were hunting bot trains to take them out immediately. I miss those days. Now you report bots and it seems nothing happens. The same trains in the same spots. I guess they can't afford to pay people to go after them like the old days. You would think with the sale of all those gambling boxes that they would have a little extra money to pay for some extra GM staff.

I remember the old days. You could actually get a GM in game to port to you and they would immediately ban the c**p out of players and stay there until it was resolved. Then come back again if they needed to. Mmo's today are all about the money, but in game customer service is terrible. The old saying "you get what you paid for", is a joke now.

Dragonnord

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

We do actively investigate any reports of bots. The best way to get them actioned is to report them in game.

They are very tough to report due to their constant movement. Especially the groups of 6 or more sorcs all using 2 pets. It's hard to even target them to get a name, much less 6 names.

The botting spots however are always the same. It would be one heck of a lot more effective if we had an in-game reporting tool for a botting location.

These are world class coders, developers, programmers, that work for ESO.
ESO is the best of the best MMORPG's out there right now and only the best of the best work for them.

You only need to name 1 person within the bot group my friend. These investigators that work for ESO are extremely smart and will notice the other bots and handle them appropriately.

Hahahaha! Really @qsnoopyjr?

Like in THIS thread of mine that hasn't been take care nor responded by ZOS in four months now?

Don't make me laugh qsnoopyjr! ZOS does NOTHING against train bots.
 

karldavy149b16_ESO

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

We do actively investigate any reports of bots. The best way to get them actioned is to report them in game.

make your reporting process easier then ... i see them think to myself do i want to waste 30 mins reporting them .... then move right along

karldavy149b16_ESO

central_scrutinizer wrote: »

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

Dont just ban their accounts, ban their consoles too, dont know if that would do anything

Yes, I'm sure ESO has rights to ban these guys from their xbox one or ps4.... or even their PC.
I agree, ban them from their console.

Better yet ,track their IP address. Notify their internet provider, ban their internet.

I doubt that most ISP's would care at all. Before my kids moved out I was constantly getting emails from my ISP about piracy, the emails informed me that there were complaints, and that they did not and will not give out my info.

I can't see them caring about somebody cheating in a game, at all.

And I am in a developed western country. Foreign ISP's probably care even less.

Banning MAC addresses and console accounts is probably the most that ZEN could possibly do.

And it's what they'd do if they were serious about keeping bots out, because it's probably the ONLY thing that would even slow the botters down.

why should they care every botter as atleast brought a copy of the game either thro legitmate or not so legitmate sources .... either way its $$$ in zos owners back pocket

Elsonso

CarbonX wrote: »

Don't make me laugh qsnoopyjr! ZOS does NOTHING against train bots.
 

That is not completely true. They do appear to get them out of the game, but it is at such a leisurely pace that one cannot be faulted for thinking that they are doing nothing. As near as I can tell, they recently banned trains of bots in Grahtwood and Shadowfen. Granted, it took them upwards of a month to get around to some of these bots, but it looks like they did.

The only other alternative is that the person running the bots realized they should be banned, banned themselves, and created new accounts. I am thinking this is unlikely.

Dragonnord

lordrichter wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Don't make me laugh qsnoopyjr! ZOS does NOTHING against train bots.
 

That is not completely true. They do appear to get them out of the game, but it is at such a leisurely pace that one cannot be faulted for thinking that they are doing nothing. As near as I can tell, they recently banned trains of bots in Grahtwood and Shadowfen. Granted, it took them upwards of a month to get around to some of these bots, but it looks like they did.

The only other alternative is that the person running the bots realized they should be banned, banned themselves, and created new accounts. I am thinking this is unlikely.

It is in my experiencie. Although reported, they haven't removed bots from Glister Vale for two years now. TWO YEARS!!!
 

Elsonso

CarbonX wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Don't make me laugh qsnoopyjr! ZOS does NOTHING against train bots.
 

That is not completely true. They do appear to get them out of the game, but it is at such a leisurely pace that one cannot be faulted for thinking that they are doing nothing. As near as I can tell, they recently banned trains of bots in Grahtwood and Shadowfen. Granted, it took them upwards of a month to get around to some of these bots, but it looks like they did.

The only other alternative is that the person running the bots realized they should be banned, banned themselves, and created new accounts. I am thinking this is unlikely.

It is in my experiencie. Although reported, they haven't removed bots from Glister Vale for two years now. TWO YEARS!!!
 

While I never go to Glister Vale, I would tend to doubt this. Actually, I am not even sure where Glister Vale is. Anyway, while there are probably bots there, they are probably not the same bots that were there 2 years ago. The longest that I have ever seen the same bots in the same location has been about 8 weeks.

Anyway, I shall find this Glister Vale, and swing by there in a week, or so, to see what's up. This Update will probably mess up the bots for a few hours, if not a day, while they get things sorted.

Azuramoonstar

lordrichter wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

auronessb16_ESO wrote: »

Does it help to add a link to a video after the report is made, when I get the email confirmation? I have reported on a group of the same 5 or 6 for the past three days, and have videos of all three days.

unless ZoS does no mmo i've played takes video evidence, as it can be edited, and doctored.

Yeah, they take video evidence. People have to keep in mind that video evidence, and screen captures, are pretty much the same authenticity as the person who just uses the in-game Report Player. ZOS has to do their own investigation to confirm, or refute, the report, no matter what evidence is submitted.*

This is why a lot of people just say "go there and see for yourself".


*EDIT: At least, they had better be doing their own investigations!

I'm stating my experience which is 5 mmo from 3 different companies. 2 being multiple years. (7 years and 5 years)

And no it isn't the same, videos can be and ARE edited in a way to point blame at others, I've seen it happen.

In overwatch, people try to use kill cam (which blizzard stated is inaccurate as it isn't a life feed record) and use it against people for botting when they aren't.

It isn't hard to duplicate characters edit in character information, and claim "bot".

I call bs on that unless a rep states it is ok.

I recommend a search of the forum.

why not post a link of a Zos rep stating this.

i have 10+ years of playing mmo, i played 31 mmo and 7 MUD 90% were f2p, and played 2 weeks. I read every ToS, and each was the same "don't accept videos or screenshots when taking reports"

I also have 2 years graphic arts (with degree) and a year of media production. I don't believe forum posters as I got false ban from WoW because of them.

D0PAMINE

I use my StamSorc movement speed build to destroy mobs and collect resources whenever I can. I've called on some guilds to help with reporting them. If you can get them killed by kiting mobs over to them, it helps speed up the reporting process cause theyre no longer moving. I've yet to encoumter false positives that were real players.

Azuramoonstar

karldavy149b16_ESO wrote: »

central_scrutinizer wrote: »

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

Dont just ban their accounts, ban their consoles too, dont know if that would do anything

Yes, I'm sure ESO has rights to ban these guys from their xbox one or ps4.... or even their PC.
I agree, ban them from their console.

Better yet ,track their IP address. Notify their internet provider, ban their internet.

I doubt that most ISP's would care at all. Before my kids moved out I was constantly getting emails from my ISP about piracy, the emails informed me that there were complaints, and that they did not and will not give out my info.

I can't see them caring about somebody cheating in a game, at all.

And I am in a developed western country. Foreign ISP's probably care even less.

Banning MAC addresses and console accounts is probably the most that ZEN could possibly do.

And it's what they'd do if they were serious about keeping bots out, because it's probably the ONLY thing that would even slow the botters down.

why should they care every botter as atleast brought a copy of the game either thro legitmate or not so legitmate sources .... either way its $$$ in zos owners back pocket

this is not true, a company can't fully accept and can loose money if things are bought with stolen credit cards. On top of legal issues, by the card owner. People like spreading this i guess. Its not true though.

ff11 mass ban over 100K players who used an exploit to cheese content. ff11 also ban over 1mil rmt accounts over 7 years that i played taking back over a billion of ingame currency.

ff14 ban over 1 mil accounts of rmt. that's just 2 of the 31 mmo I played.

Azuramoonstar

D0PAMINE wrote: »

I use my StamSorc movement speed build to destroy mobs and collect resources whenever I can. I've called on some guilds to help with reporting them. If you can get them killed by kiting mobs over to them, it helps speed up the reporting process cause theyre no longer moving. I've yet to encoumter false positives that were real players.

idk if their is a rule about it in this mmo. but mpk is a no no in my last 2 mmo.

just report and walk away. If they don't move they might be reporting you for mpk.

Jake1576

CarbonX wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Don't make me laugh qsnoopyjr! ZOS does NOTHING against train bots.
 

That is not completely true. They do appear to get them out of the game, but it is at such a leisurely pace that one cannot be faulted for thinking that they are doing nothing. As near as I can tell, they recently banned trains of bots in Grahtwood and Shadowfen. Granted, it took them upwards of a month to get around to some of these bots, but it looks like they did.

The only other alternative is that the person running the bots realized they should be banned, banned themselves, and created new accounts. I am thinking this is unlikely.

It is in my experiencie. Although reported, they haven't removed bots from Glister Vale for two years now. TWO YEARS!!!
 

Auridon they are also on ps4 na server at the glistering vale