Bring Back Counterplay Zos. Show ur community that you care about PVP

Lord_Invel

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert
This game has become so mindless in button mashing and has no counterplay whatsoever. The game mechanics are supporting people that aren't even knowledgeable in the game. Why can someone that spams power of the light and soul assault out of the blue suddenly become viable. Oh I know exactly why.... its because the game mechanics make the skills undodgeable and uncounterable to every class. These mechanics support them by proccing 14k power of lights with 20k soul assaults that cant be interrupted or cleansed by any other class in a competitive standpoint. Make soul assault cloackable, cleanseable, interuptable, and not blockable again. People need to learn how to play skillfully and prep their ults... if they couldn't use soul assaults in previous patches successfully that doesn't mean that soul assault was week it means that they didn't know how to play and use it properly and prepare their ults for a high burst combo. Please make meteor reflectable, cloackable, cleanseabel, and dodgeable again.

What happened to double reflecting abilities in this game that made dks so unique and fun and wings are completely useless now. What happened to counterplay in this game. What happened to zos caring about small scale pvp and not supporting mindless zerg warfare. Joe nobody and I can easily put on skoria, soulshine armor, place power of light on someone and soul assault them and they will die no matter what the situation because this game has no counterplay to all of its abilities. WHAT TYPE OF GAMEPLAY IS THIS ? ESO needs a complete backtrack on its counterplay mechanics. This game is supporting mindless button mashing and outnumbering ur opponents rather than skillful pvp and tenable and tactical counterplay. Make ESO a great game it is dieing and crashing itself to the ground. All the main streamers have quit ESO what does that tell u zos?

Also by removing this games counterplay new players will not feel any sense of progression with their skill level if they cant react to any abilities in a tenable situation. How will a new player feel when they learn that they cant counter power of light and soul assault in any way? How will they feel about meteor when all they can do is block it and face tank the damage. How are these any reasonable game mechanics that make new players welcome to compete in this game. This casual crowd that u guys so proudly advertise to are being cheated of their performance and usefulness as an individual if YOU ZOS do not change ur game back to a skill based pvp game. This game was first advertised as a pvp game and cyrodiil being its main focus but it is clear now that u falsely advertised this claim and did not keep any of ur promises that u promoted in QUAKECON 2014. What happened to spell crafting and ability crafting .... what happened to pvp justice system.... what happened to ZOS' integrity and honesty and transparency? We need people and the developers to care about pvp again then ur player base will rise to its full capacity.

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert

Magıc

Decent.

Lord_Invel

Magıc wrote: »

Decent.

Awww man I was going for stellar lol

Lexxypwns

If you're literally dying to just purifying light + soul assault then I can't even take you seriously. Would you mind clarifying that before I read the rest of this book?

Lord_Invel

Lexxypwns wrote: »

If you're literally dying to just purifying light + soul assault then I can't even take you seriously. Would you mind clarifying that before I read the rest of this book?

Yes I will clarify I'm talking about 3 to 5 people placing that on one person lmaooo also in a 1v1 when u stack full thaumaturge and put on skoria and purifying light and soul assault someone it takes a huge chunk of anyones health. Ive done it on my magplar it is broken XD lol. Like power of light is just a xv1 skill outnumbering mechanic and soul assault has no counter play at all. Same with meteor, same with many other ultimates zos has effectively removed counterplay as a whole in pvp. People that I used to 1vx have suddenly become viable because no one can counter power of light stacking on a single person when being soul assaulted all at the same time while being outnumbered 2 to 1, 3 to 1, or even 5 to 1.

Knootewoot

It would all be better if this wasn't: Eldersnares Online

Fjuck snares and roots. even NPC use them to much.

Brutusmax1mus

Soul assault counter play is block healing if solo or just healing through it, line of sight, shield stacking, distancing yourself out of range.

You're right though, when combined with purifying light it can dominate someone, especially stamina. Block healing will be incredibly expensive in the next update, purifying light is unblockable and soul assault will bring your health down and they end at the same time. It's tough burst to counter for sure.

Lord_Invel

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Soul assault counter play is block healing if solo or just healing through it, line of sight, shield stacking, distancing yourself out of range.

You're right though, when combined with purifying light it can dominate someone, especially stamina. Block healing will be incredibly expensive in the next update, purifying light is unblockable and soul assault will bring your health down and they end at the same time. It's tough burst to counter for sure.

Just blocking isn't counterplay..... frags u can dodge it block it reflect it and used to be able to cleanse it. The same should be for soul assault and meteor. If u cant land ur ultimate without it being interrupted or cleansed or cloacked or reflected that's your fault and people need to learn to play. I'm not using your as in you personally I'm using it as in general. Ultimates need to have more counterplay and we need a new version of dynamic ult gen that way small scale players have hope. this game was build to support small scale players in its release pvp wasn't just MINDLESS ZERGING AND BALL GROUPS. ZOS in fact advertised against that but lately it seems like that is all they are supporting they aren't supporting small scale and skillful pvp at all.

KingJ

Why does everyone have a issue with POTL but curse is ok?

Lord_Invel

KingJ wrote: »

Why does everyone have a issue with POTL but curse is ok?

I mean its fine if zos nerfs curse too. I'm a mag sorc main and I think that curse should be like 5 or 6 seconds each. The damage of curse isn't op its the fact that it echos. But power of light damage can hit tank builds for 14k and hits damage shields for 13k as well. Imagine all the poor stam builds that get hit with stamplar dots and power of light.... all abilities which are undodgeable smh.

HoloYoitsu

KingJ wrote: »

Why does everyone have a issue with POTL but curse is ok?

POTL is bugged, if you recast it before the expiration period, the dmg built up on the previous cast still counts towards the dmg build up for the new cast. Hence you can get around the whole mechanic of needing to build up dmg w/in the time limit in order to achieve max burst. The initial on cast dmg is also counting towards the dmg build up, which it's not supposed to.

Meanwhile, Curse has no initial cast dmg, and hits for about half as much to begin with.

Mojomonkeyman

KingJ wrote: »

Why does everyone have a issue with POTL but curse is ok?

Curse is as broken and unhealthy for good pvp as PL, it`s just that this thread was made by a magsorc ...

I agree 100% with OP. Skillful combat is defined by counterplay. The empty shell we have now can barely be called skillful combat anymore.

ThyIronFist

Totally agreed.

Reflective scales is nerfed into the ground as a lot of abilities aren't reflectable anymore, double-reflect was always fun, reflecting meteors, etc. Interrupts as well... Deep Breath is probably useless now as well as back in the day you could interrupt a lot of skills with it, now? Soul Assault, Templar skills, Healing ult isn't even interruptable anymore and the game just turns into an "I win" 1-button fest.

PvP is cancerous enough as it is with these *** proc sets and poisons, and every man and his dog watching YouTube videos on how to be the next proc set cancer spammer and then think you're good at the game.

Lord_Invel wrote: »

what happened to ZOS' integrity and honesty and transparency? We need people and the developers to care about pvp again then ur player base will rise to its full capacity.

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert

Implying ZOS was ever honest with us in the first place and actually cared about PvP at any point in the past 3 years...

Lord_Invel

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Why does everyone have a issue with POTL but curse is ok?

Curse is as broken and unhealthy for good pvp as PL, it`s just that this thread was made by a magsorc ...

I agree 100% with OP. Skillful combat is defined by counterplay. The empty shell we have now can barely be called skillful combat anymore.

This post is made by a mag sorc and yet I agreed with nerfing cruse lmaooo try reading what I say in previous comments before making invalid assumptions that I don't want change for everything including my class this isn't some conspiracy that I'm trying to pull to make my class better than other class lmaooo.

DHale

Every one v xer shows there is counterplay. Sypher used to literally laugh when someone tried to use shield breaker on him. If you are not good enough there is no counter play. That is not something ZOS can fix. The only counter play that is not tenable is numbers. Watch Rhage or Kodi or Blob or ANY good one v xers none of thier complaints stem from lack of counter play.

Lord_Invel

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Totally agreed.

Reflective scales is nerfed into the ground as a lot of abilities aren't reflectable anymore, double-reflect was always fun, reflecting meteors, etc. Interrupts as well... Deep Breath is probably useless now as well as back in the day you could interrupt a lot of skills with it, now? Soul Assault, Templar skills, Healing ult isn't even interruptable anymore and the game just turns into an "I win" 1-button fest.

PvP is cancerous enough as it is with these *** proc sets and poisons, and every man and his dog watching YouTube videos on how to be the next proc set cancer spammer and then think you're good at the game.

Lord_Invel wrote: »

what happened to ZOS' integrity and honesty and transparency? We need people and the developers to care about pvp again then ur player base will rise to its full capacity.

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert

Implying ZOS was ever honest with us in the first place and actually cared about PvP at any point in the past 3 years...

Yeah dude its a shame Mag dks used to be kings in cyrodiil and because zos completely butchered the integrity of the game there is no skill cap anymore in pvp. There honestly isn't any counterplay and tactical play in this game like in 1.3 or 1.5

Lord_Invel

DHale wrote: »

Every one v xer shows there is counterplay. Sypher used to literally laugh when someone tried to use shield breaker on him. If you are not good enough there is no counter play. That is not something ZOS can fix. The only counter play that is not tenable is numbers. Watch Rhage or Kodi or Blob or ANY good one v xers none of thier complaints stem from lack of counter play.

lol actually they agree with what I say that there is no counter play lol ur argument is pretty much null and void. The only reason myself and them can 1vx is because 1vx is fighting against terrible players that is all lmao. Terrible players that have crap builds compared to and experienced player with a really strong build. But the counter to power of light when outnumbered there is none the counter to curse stacking on u when outnumbered there is none the counter to soul assaults stacking on u there is none the counter to meteors stacking on u when outnumbered OH .... wait u can only block it smh. People mindlessly spamming their ultimates because its a guaranteed hit now. Back then when we had dynamic ult gen if u were not good at the game it was hard for u to get an ultimate because u weren't good at healing and dishing out damage to ur opponent that in it of itself was a skill based system and zos removed it. So no what ur saying is really off because all those players u listed know that there is no counterplay like there was in 1.5 or 1.6.

DHale

Lord_Invel wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Every one v xer shows there is counterplay. Sypher used to literally laugh when someone tried to use shield breaker on him. If you are not good enough there is no counter play. That is not something ZOS can fix. The only counter play that is not tenable is numbers. Watch Rhage or Kodi or Blob or ANY good one v xers none of thier complaints stem from lack of counter play.

lol actually they agree with what I say that there is no counter play lol ur argument is pretty much null and void. The only reason myself and them can 1vx is because 1vx is fighting against terrible players that is all lmao. Terrible players that have crap builds compared to and experienced player with a really strong build. But the counter to power of light when outnumbered there is none the counter to curse stacking on u when outnumbered there is none the counter to soul assaults stacking on u there is none the counter to meteors stacking on u when outnumbered OH .... wait u can only block it smh. People mindlessly spamming their ultimates because its a guaranteed hit now. Back then when we had dynamic ult gen if u were not good at the game it was hard for u to get an ultimate because u weren't good at healing and dishing out damage to ur opponent that in it of itself was a skill based system and zos removed it. So no what ur saying is really off because all those players u listed know that there is no counterplay like there was in 1.5 or 1.6.

If only people spent more time fighting them rather than sitting in thier twicth chat complaining and reminiscing about the good old days and asking everyone for mod. If only.

Mojomonkeyman

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Why does everyone have a issue with POTL but curse is ok?

Curse is as broken and unhealthy for good pvp as PL, it`s just that this thread was made by a magsorc ...

I agree 100% with OP. Skillful combat is defined by counterplay. The empty shell we have now can barely be called skillful combat anymore.

This post is made by a mag sorc and yet I agreed with nerfing cruse lmaooo try reading what I say in previous comments before making invalid assumptions that I don't want change for everything including my class this isn't some conspiracy that I'm trying to pull to make my class better than other class lmaooo.

I said it without bad intention, in particular because you already agreed on the oversight before. Perhaps not the best wording on the super-serious ESO forums. Nonetheless, your OP was good.

Lord_Invel

DHale wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Every one v xer shows there is counterplay. Sypher used to literally laugh when someone tried to use shield breaker on him. If you are not good enough there is no counter play. That is not something ZOS can fix. The only counter play that is not tenable is numbers. Watch Rhage or Kodi or Blob or ANY good one v xers none of thier complaints stem from lack of counter play.

lol actually they agree with what I say that there is no counter play lol ur argument is pretty much null and void. The only reason myself and them can 1vx is because 1vx is fighting against terrible players that is all lmao. Terrible players that have crap builds compared to and experienced player with a really strong build. But the counter to power of light when outnumbered there is none the counter to curse stacking on u when outnumbered there is none the counter to soul assaults stacking on u there is none the counter to meteors stacking on u when outnumbered OH .... wait u can only block it smh. People mindlessly spamming their ultimates because its a guaranteed hit now. Back then when we had dynamic ult gen if u were not good at the game it was hard for u to get an ultimate because u weren't good at healing and dishing out damage to ur opponent that in it of itself was a skill based system and zos removed it. So no what ur saying is really off because all those players u listed know that there is no counterplay like there was in 1.5 or 1.6.

If only people spent more time fighting them rather than sitting in thier twicth chat complaining and reminiscing about the good old days and asking everyone for mod. If only.

I really don't know what relevance to the situation ur comment is presuming?

Sanct16

I don't get this argumentation. Yes, there are no hardcounters anymore in the form of "I will render your ultimate useless by pressing this button" but that is hardly "skillful". Hardcounter are incredibly casual-friendly as it isn't hard to press reflect when you have a meteor on you and I think it removes a lot of potential regarding actually skilled combat.

It requires way more skill to find ways to deal with certain problems without having a hardcounter. I think destro ultimate in duels is a perfect example for this: At the start there was a lot of complaints about "omg so op, no counter qqqqq" and against pugs it worked wonders, however if you did some fights against strong opponents you realise every class has ways to deal with it, so many people switched back to meteor.

What the game is actually missing tho imo is more ways to interact with your opponents resource management. Atm it is just both players mashing buttons and at some point someone is dead. I really liked the dynamics of oldschool duels with interruptable heavy attacks - and kind of going in the same direction the design concept of Dark Deal.
You get a lot of resources but if your opponent can bash you, they deny you the resources + cc you. Risk => Reward.
A skill like "over 5 seconds you generate 10k magicka but take 50% more damage" could also be quite interesting. Or a skill that drains resources from your opponent but if they break free from it they get them back, forcing you to carefully choose how long you want to channel the drain.

At the moment only cost poisons serve that role but there is a very low skillcap for using poisons as its just random procs.

Valencer

DHale wrote: »

Every one v xer shows there is counterplay. Sypher used to literally laugh when someone tried to use shield breaker on him. If you are not good enough there is no counter play. That is not something ZOS can fix. The only counter play that is not tenable is numbers. Watch Rhage or Kodi or Blob or ANY good one v xers none of thier complaints stem from lack of counter play.

Back in the day almost every ability had a counter in between roll dodging, interrupting, reflecting or just plain watching your positioning and moving out of an AoE. And of course there was also damage shields and blocking, which were universally useful against pretty much all damage.

You can't really argue that hasnt changed. A lot of key abilities arent reflectable anymore, a ton of abilities that hit really hard have their counters stripped away to the point where only damage shields and sometimes blocking can help you mitigate the damage at all. Most abilities HAVE to be blocked or shielded, and even then there's quite a few abilities that go through block now. Damage shields are the only counter that still mostly works on everything. How sustainable do you think block is on a non-heavy build?

How about people proccing 10k+ burst damage with a damn light attack? People simply hit harder and do so faster because there is no need for combining abilities for proper burst when you can just stack proc sets. Now multiply that by however many people are hitting you at the same time with proc sets. Completely impossible to deal with.

It's just sad that more and more I end up thinking "Yeah, I wouldve died no matter what" instead of thinking of mistakes I made and couldve avoided. Maybe Im biased because Im a stam DK that used to rely on roll dodge and reflects as his primary line of defense, but I think all of this is relevant to any spec that doesnt rely entirely on damage shields.

Magıc

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Why does everyone have a issue with POTL but curse is ok?

Curse is as broken and unhealthy for good pvp as PL, it`s just that this thread was made by a magsorc ...

I agree 100% with OP. Skillful combat is defined by counterplay. The empty shell we have now can barely be called skillful combat anymore.

Actually if you read one of the previous posts he explains why Potl/PL is more broken than Curse. Not surprised that you're QQing about Curse though. @Mojomonkeyman

KingJ

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Why does everyone have a issue with POTL but curse is ok?

POTL is bugged, if you recast it before the expiration period, the dmg built up on the previous cast still counts towards the dmg build up for the new cast. Hence you can get around the whole mechanic of needing to build up dmg w/in the time limit in order to achieve max burst. The initial on cast dmg is also counting towards the dmg build up, which it's not supposed to.

Meanwhile, Curse has no initial cast dmg, and hits for about half as much to begin with.

Actually I never knew it was bugged now I see why people have issue with it.

Lord_Invel wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Why does everyone have a issue with POTL but curse is ok?

I mean its fine if zos nerfs curse too. I'm a mag sorc main and I think that curse should be like 5 or 6 seconds each. The damage of curse isn't op its the fact that it echos. But power of light damage can hit tank builds for 14k and hits damage shields for 13k as well. Imagine all the poor stam builds that get hit with stamplar dots and power of light.... all abilities which are undodgeable smh.

I have never been hit by anything higher than a 8k POTL in PVP. This was against a DW Selene viper stamplar .This was on a stamblade.You can avoid the build up damage by blocking and standing behind the stamplar when he jabs.I guess not many people on Xbox know the bug @HoloYoitsu mentioned.Yea let's make curse 6 seconds and remove the echo.

zuto40

Sums it up nice, I quit another MMO to play ESO and right now that MMO is calling my name saying: zutoooo come back, we have counterplay and balance and somewhat capable devs

KingJ

zuto40 wrote: »

Sums it up nice, I quit another MMO to play ESO and right now that MMO is calling my name saying: zutoooo come back, we have counterplay and balance and somewhat capable devs

What MMO was that?

NBrookus

How does a new player feel when the only counterplay to destro ult is run away, and the same for a negate if you play magicka? How are new players going to feel when they can't do anything about being eclipsed except wait it out, while power of the light stores up damage?

KingJ wrote: »

I have never been hit by anything higher than a 8k POTL in PVP. This was against a DW Selene viper stamplar .This was on a stamblade.You can avoid the build up damage by blocking and standing behind the stamplar when he jabs.I guess not many people on Xbox know the bug @HoloYoitsu mentioned.Yea let's make curse 6 seconds and remove the echo.

I've had 13k+ PotL ticks while permablocking at capped resists. It's not the damage from one player that's the problem -- it's the fact it stores up ALL the damage you are taking from all sources.

Mojomonkeyman

Magıc wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Why does everyone have a issue with POTL but curse is ok?

Curse is as broken and unhealthy for good pvp as PL, it`s just that this thread was made by a magsorc ...

I agree 100% with OP. Skillful combat is defined by counterplay. The empty shell we have now can barely be called skillful combat anymore.

Actually if you read one of the previous posts he explains why Potl/PL is more broken than Curse. Not surprised that you're QQing about Curse though. @Mojomonkeyman

I have no clue who you are or why you felt the need to crawl out of your cave to sneak on me. Nothing to see here.

zuto40

KingJ wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

Sums it up nice, I quit another MMO to play ESO and right now that MMO is calling my name saying: zutoooo come back, we have counterplay and balance and somewhat capable devs

What MMO was that?

pirate101, dont judge i started 4 years ago when i was a little baby, but ive started playing blade and soul with some friends and its pretty fun

Lord_Invel

@Sanct16 I do understand ur point of view being that hard counters can pose a problem like what is the point of an ult that is countered by everything in game .... but lets look at the individual ults issue how are they designed. Soul assault doesn't let a nightblade cloack which is ridiculous it isn't cleansed which is ludicrous and it isn't bashable which is outrageous LOL. How it used to work back then was it wasn't blockable but u can use all these abilities to ur advantage. If u couldn't run ur opponenet out of stam or cc them in time to prepare ur ultimate that is ur fault. Unfortunately zos has made the game where it is impossible to run people out of resources so in essence SOUL ASSAULT having so many hard counters was never the damn problem. It is the design in the game that makes it harder to use because zos removed soft caps and made it INSANELY SIMPLE AND EASY to maintain ur resources at all times. If zos brought back the old way of resource sustain with soft caps u will instantly see the viablitiy of ultimates rise to their full capacity because u can run people out of stam, u can stun them in time, u can fight them and bash their heavy attacks, u can out play them and build ultimate faster the more offensive u are in comparison.

Plain and simple zos needs to show or needs to have someone that actually cares about the integrity of skillful pvp in all aspects of the game.

DeHei

I play with purifying light and soul assoult! I dont think, thats the worst thing in game. For me its the only way atm to kill this cancer necropotence magicka sorcs with shoeld stacking like hell. Its the only way to kill this cancer heavy armor weared stamina player with weaving heavy attacks and skills and can kill me into 2 seconds. When i have another option, i would like to hear from!
I made enough duells and after i killed first of them, who said i never lost duells 1 month ago or something like that, i just hear this minimi about this burstdamagecombo.
Really you should ask why *** are using guys it, its not just for fun, but the balance isnt there!